"...to come to the aid of their country." usa


Well-known member
This is a 'spin off' from the 'Sticky' thread on the Charts of the USA -Debate, issue.
I had never tried to find the birthchart before as I hadn't any use for it and had better things to do with my time. But I thought , what the heck, why not spend a day or two at it and see what I can come up with.
Well, to be honest...it was pretty f'n simple...although the first attempt was as bad and as wrong as everyone else I know of that submitted one to date.
I'm going to repost those posts from the other thread here, and get this subject it's own 'stage' [so to speak] ...because...what the next chart I did attempt is mind boggling....and if it is the correct birth chart...my fellow Yanks...We need to get BUSY... and time is precious.
Read all I post here from the other [you mods are welcome to erase them in the other thread if you would prefer.] thread and check the astrology out for your selves...let it soak in...then lets see what this chart means as to the immediate future of the U.S.A. ...and if there is anything , we as, Astrologers can do to ... Come to the aid of our country.
Thanks, and may God Bless, ptv.
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Well-known member
[There seems to be some grumbling that I just 'Chose ' this time for the chart as for self promtion reasons...I submit the following from my introduction to the same material here that I posted at the forum at ACTastrology.com, I hope that it will aid many of you in understand my reasons, approach and subsquent writings on the subject here. What is from ACT is in 'Green'. It is a thread on 'Aspect Patterns of Septiles', in the "Aspects and Chart Patterns" sub-forum as follows: thanx ptv]

I wasn't sure where to post this...

I had intended to write this thread from 'scratch' based on the series of posts I have in a thread at the astrologyweekly.com forum and just now I decided to not write it [again]...and just give the link..and later on I can format it properly here at ACTastrology, once someone tells me where...unless this gets as such a negative press as to give cause to dispose of it and erase all trace of it.

I decided to try my hand at the 'ultimate' challenge of finding the true birth chart of the USA...It is a thread at astrologyweekly.com titled: "USA Charts the Ultimate Debate."
I love a good puzzle and I do rise best to such challenges...[I didn't claim to 'Raise WITH my best, I said, I RISE BEST TO such as THE BEST challenges

...I just realized that I actually did achieve to 'reveal' what I believe is the undeniable natal chart in a way very similar to previous endeavors that dealt with dates primarily. ..and of which I was also able to come to a conclusion relatively very rapidly...just by noting potentiality.
I had recently purchased the two volume set of Martin Schulman's, "Karmic Astrology." [late last year, anyways...so, fairly recent.] I had only previously read the chapters of the book concerning my own and a couple of close friends chart aspects of Nodes and retrograde Planets. As I that all charts already on display/file for charts for the day of July 4th, 1776 had my nodes in reverse [and exactly that of a very close friend of mine by the name of Suryakant, a fellow yogi, whose chart helped me to achieve a breakthrough in understaqnding that the degree symbols know as the Sabians as ascertained by Elsie Wheeler and Marc Edmond Jones did indeed imbue what ever astro-influence found at any particular degree of the Zodiac with with an affect, quality, influence, tendency, bias belief, doubt, strength or weakness. In concisest terms..some Astrologers maybe best describe as; a predisposition to a Cosmic Precept of the sequential order of either of two possible processes. These two processes I learned from studying Dane Rudhyar and his [4th] wife Layla Rael's book, "Astrological Aspects. A Process Oriented Approach". They are apparently well know to those of the Astrological school of the Theosophists known as the 'Esoteric'...to which I assume Dane got the concept from, or got the gist of it, and became convinced of the existence of it.

One is the "Involutionary" process, of the objective qualities of all physical creation, or as some will say, the illusion of Maya. that is it represents the "Creative Act for the Sake of Creation". To many this is the path sometimes called the 'Path of Bondage., or 'Illusion'....becoming more immersed in matter. "Evolutionary". It is sumarized at the end of it's 360 phase cycle with the symbol for the 30th degree of Pisces. as described by M.E. Jones as: 30º Pisces: " 'A Majestic Rock Formation Resembling a Face Is Idealized By a Boy Who Takes It As his Ideal of Greatness, and As He Grows Up, Begins To Look Like It.' Eventual concrete manifestation of all higher poetic images and enduring truths of the race. Sure culmination of effort."

The other is the 'Evolutionary Process'. That path through the 360 Cosmic Precepts that lead one out of bondage to the physical, to break the bond to Maya and the allure of the Illusion of Maya. It begins directly opposite that of the other path and flows/unfolds in the other direction. It is aptly illustrated by both the first degree and the last degree of it's cycle. That of Virgo 30*, that M.E. Jones described as: " 'Having An Urgent Task To Complete, A Man Doesn't Look To Any Distractions.'
Joy of enlisting in a task which broadens the life-horizon. Willing rising to the occasion, or escape from narrow destiny. "

As I noticed this unusual coincidence of the nodes I picked up Schulman's book to look a few things up in reference and noticed he mentioned he believed the Asc. of the USA to be in the early degrees of Gemini [in fact it was not in the books but online as I later ended up looking Martin up on the internet to see if there was a bio. or article in 'wiki' about Him and ran across this info and I believe he said the 6th, 7th or 8th degree [can't quite recall and haven't been able to find the same web site or page again yet. But it was n't the exact degree tha is important nor is it what caught my attention. It was that the Asc. he had presaged... it was in the sign of Gemini...completely the opposite sign Rudhyar had proposed and for the fact that, of which it then put the time between 2 and 4 AM somewhere...!?!

Well, as My natal Mars is in the 5th of Gemini and the Sabian Symbol for it as described and defined by Dane Rudhyar reads: "A Revolutionary Magazine Calling for Action" [which I always seem to remember it being called '...an Activist Magazine Calling For Revolution." for some reason.] Made me decide that my first attempt with astrodienst should be an Asc. with Gemini 05* [You can read more about why I was okay with a 2 AM time in the other posts at the link.]
That had me going for a bit..but I realized rather quickly it was a dud. Well, you got to admit the Symbology for the 5th of Gemini made it an obvious choice as a one of the best prospects, and Schulman's theory gave me the gall to try it.
But as I was already 'testing the waters' around the true start of the day...12 Midnight...

I knew what the next choice of attempt would have to be...and to be honest, it should have been the very first...I just figured every one had already tried it and a multiple of times too...that being of the stroke of 12:00:01 AM July 4, 1776.
I realize that the accuracy of the 'Skyglobe' like quality of accuracy computer emphemeris have only been available to the general masses only a little more than a decade and that may have been why it was passed over by Rudhyar as surely He must have first tired the most obivous.

..it's utterly profound..imho...
It Is Simply The First Second Of July 4, 1776 and the geographical center of the building currently called 'Independence Hall'
I prove it both by logic and by Sabian demonstration/explanation. [it's been nearly 40 years since i took a course in Logic in college...so, bear with me there. I utilize the old, "There's An Elephant In The Room" exercise in Logic, ..and it is a 'open forum. meaning: Little Decorum or respect ...Please, don't take the 'cocky' attitude I seem to display there, as being 'genuine'!

So I do establish the grid as [the Asc. for the USA based on the data I gave above is; 21* Aries 54' 00"]

...and do note that I've done the progressed charts as well and my remark about the President's progressed Asc being conj. with the USA natal Asc. is quite true...
..Like I said...it's...IMHO... some pretty profound stuff...

I then make a note that, as the chart, I've been championing as that of Yeshua/Jesus, has a 'Septile Matrix' that was complete at 4 points at birth and were completed by transiting Saturn and the Luminaries the Monday He physically died [day after the first Easter Sunday] that I realized back in 2005, that I have since come to understand that any such 'Septile Matrix" constructed to the Asc. will illustrate a 'Fatal Path' through the Sabian Symbology just as any Pentagram illustrates a 'perfect plot for a story' [Marc Edmond Jones made a nice sum of $$$ writing scripts for Hollywood, and for many years there after, after obtaining the Sabian Symbols.]

The Septile Matrix is as follows starting with the Asc. of the USA natal chart.

ASC. 21* Aries 29' 33" ...Obama's progressed Asc., conj. & [current March 20] U.S. natal progressed, Venus-conj. [post #203]
12* Gemini 53' 46"
04* Leo 17' 59" ... close to the USA's natal node @ 06* Leo 35' 08" [strangely, also my Sth. Node 06* Leo 54' 10"]
25* Virgo 42' 12" ...conj, current Neptune-progressed USA natal
17* Scorpio 06' 25" ...[strangely, this is my Asc.]
08* Capricorn 30' 38" ...and transiting Pluto is sitting rt. here...right now
29* Aquarius 54' 51" ...here's transiting Neptune rt. now
[Note. August 19, 2012. I corrected the signs and the degrees above. I had gotten the correct data mixed in with that from another project, I apologize for the error. ptv]
so, if you are intrigued....

[I start by establishing my ability to have found the correct chart of the USA in this post about the chart of India...if you have no need to know this...skip it. ptv]

For those of you that think that this chart I propose lacks merit to be of consideration for, that as, the natal chart of the U.S.A. Let me hereby establish my ability to rectify a nations birth chart through rectification by Sabian Symbology with the follow example and explanation.

If you'll all notice the thread on India in which a great many forum members all took a shot at 'guessing' what the chart is.
I'm the only one that took note of the fact that India is a half hour off from the rest of the actual time of that 'Zone' [as they span such a large area that incorporates two time zones thus they've opted to 'split the difference'.
Everyone of the charts proposed by this forums members weren't taking into account that the agreed and set time of Indias' independence from British Imperialism and becoming its' own nation [again] was that of Mid-Night 12:00 P.M in India.
[As I have mentioned in other 'threads', yes, Mid-Night is 12:00 PM, Noon is AM. But the second after Mid-Night it becomes AM, as does 12:00 AM noon becomes PM the second after...just like the enumeration of the degrees that so many of you members seem to have trouble comprehending. If 1 {one} through 11 {eleven} is PM, it stands to reason that 12 {twelve} PM is to follow. In my opinion we should all be using 'military time' aka 'a 24 hour reckoning' as it would put an end to a significant amount of confusion among all in this world, as we wouldn't have to be bothered writing AM or PM, Noon or Midnight, or saying, for example, 6 in the morning or 6 in the evening any longer.]
But as the day does begin when the Sun is at the local Nadir [My most excellent clairvoyant friend, and spiritual confidante, Clarisse Conner, concurs with this as I asked her a few years ago as to when the day should be observed to end and the next one to begin. This was because the question arose due to concerns of mine as to what day I should be 'looking for' as I was involved in doing Horoscopes for Hebrews and some that were born in, the nation of, Israel also. She said, 'I'm seeing 'military time', a 24 hour clock that begins at Mid-Night."] the capital of India, Delhi, which has to be given the 'geographical point of birth', is observing time a half hour ahead thus the actual conjunction of the Sun to the nadir there is at 12:30 AM and not 12: 00 PM Mid-Night.

If you'll notice that the Sabian Symbols for 12:30 AM, August 15, 1947 at Delhi, India are the only that make sense as to the identity of the chart axis of India. The Asc., Desc., I.C., M.C., of the 'birth chart' being that of "WHO", "WHERE-TO" [OR 'WHO-THAT BECOMES', as I sometimes prefer to say.], "HOW" and "WHY" [ and as I've been pointing out, repeatedly and, quite often lately...the I.C. and M.C. can switch roles....Also to note is that as the Asc. I got for India is 08* Gemini 54', [i.e. the 9th degree of Gemini] and that a difference of as little as apprx 6.9 miles in distance to the East makes the Asc. the next higher degree of Gemini. Thus the degree for the Asc. is the 9th of Gemini by the chart of Delhi for that date and time of 12:30 AM, [which I already have stated for reason and why a half hour after the local time of Delhi, India, already] with a Longitude of 77*E 13', and a Latitude of 28* N 40'.
I have done very intensive study to determine the exact location of the seat of Gov't in India and by Google maps it is 77* E 20' 60" long. & 28* N 62' 64" and that cuts it so thin at the cusp to the 10th degree that the slightest error or difference results in one or the other.
But by my analysis and estimation of the two symbols, in my opinion it is the 9th degree of Gemini.

As I had just mentioned to member Love2know yesterday the following at this thread:
I wrote: "..it's good to 'work on oneself' As many a great guru has said, and I am most blessed and thankful to India and the Guruampara that has been maintained for thousands of years due to the fact that they isolate themselves ...sometimes in caves, high in the Himalayas, and they 'work on themselves', for the most part ..and there're many 'Saints' among them... of the first order. [this is the way that the 'Knowledge' is not contaminated...]
But Edgar Cayce once remarked in a reading [more of a discourse, really.] about what the 'sins' of various nations were and He mentioned that
'Indias' sin is the sin of the self.'
There can be too much of that and not enough sincerity ...not enough of them doing 'the good works of actual labor in helping their own.'

Thus the 9th degree of Sagittarius, which I propose is the accurate Desc. of Indias' natal chart, i.e. The "WHERE-TO" [or as I sometimes call it, the 'WHO-THAT BECOMES'] is proven and established to my satisfaction as to the reasons above because the Sabian Symbol for the 9th of Sag. is [by D. Rudhyar's book: "An Astrological Mandala"]:


KEYNOTE: The need in any social situation to assist the less evolved in their management of the problems which society requires its members to solve.
...here is SOCIAL CONCERN for the less evolved of society's members."

That symbolism when coupled with the Sabian for the 23rd of Aquarius, the M.C. of Indias' natal chart, regardless of whether it should be considered the "HOW" or the "WHY" is clearly to me correct, because of the symbolism which is and is defined by Dane Rudhyar as:[ibid.]


KEYNOTE: The self-discipline which results from an intelligent development of individual faculties under proper training.
...powerful life energies can be trained adequately....the realization of the value and power of self-discipline....training situations; God or the Soul is the trainer.... to discipline our natural impulses and to use them for a more-than-personal purpose. This is DISCIPLESHIP in the true sense of the term."

Indias' natal chart [see that at the 'Sticky Thread' aforementioned or in the thread it is originally posted, the thread about India.]
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Okay..it's resolved...call it my opinion if you must...

It's like this. [and I tired writing it a certain way Friday night and into Saturday...and rather than try to clean that 'draft' up I'm going to lay out more simply and save the long winded 'Logic' for later]

I tried recall the semester i took part of a class in Logic years ago.

I seem to recall that to prove the 'existence' of something you had to satisfy 4 points...
Everything that exists has both a Abstract and an Objective 'existence or body, form..along those lines...
...and I seem to recall those are proven by two words
1. Undeniable [is it?]
2. Incontrovertible [is it?]

and the other two are the Abstract to the Objective... or of it..[can't recall exactly]..and vice - versa.
the words I recall for these two points being..
1. Irrefutable [is it not? ..and which is the Abstract to the Objective]
2. Indefensible [is it not?...which is the objective to the Abstract.

Number one...as I showed with the chart of India...which didn't exist until the time it was said it did.
It's the old [it's a Logic exercise] "There's an Elephant in the room."
If it's undeniable you have to walk around an elephant to get to the door on the other side of the room..it's 'Undeniable that there darn well is an Elephant in the room.
..but, is this statement 'Irrefutable'..can I show/prove that statement is either a Lie or and Error? If it's a Lie I can walk straight to the door and thus disproved it...[maybe the guy was 'hallucinating', for example] or do I have some 'elephant solvent' and throw a bucket full at it and have proved that one still can get to the other door in a straight line.

The Abstract.
Incontrovertible means 'That it's impossible to dispute.' [you..don't even go there...in other words]
and the Objective to the Abstract is ..well, I did say 'indefensible..but it may be the word, [I just used...and that being..] indisputable [about the exact same meaning.]
Well, in a geo-political sense..that means any 'dispute'...is ..yeah, 'WAR'.

So what happened in India..is one second before the day that was agreed to and set as the day and time and place...and also was so Declared...
'The observer saw "No Elephant in the room"...

The second later...'There's a freaking elephant in the room..and you got to walk around it.'

As a India had a parent that wished to give birth ...you had all the above easily satisfied..

The U.S.A. had the same thing one second before July 4th...
There was no elephant..because if a Brit. stuck his head in the room and asked the official observer [that must tell the truth] and asked.."Hey, I just happen to be totally blind and I would appreciate it if you can tell me if there is anything blocking my way from entering this room to get across to the other side and the door?'..and the Observer would say, 'No, and definitely not any 'elephants either."

..the second it became July 4th.. the observer would say...'OH, wait, there's a 'Freaking Elephant' in the room."

There's the 'Undeniable....

Now as Britain was not 'birthing this Nation'...this nation 'manifested itself...
..as like Enoch, like Melchizedek, as did Krishna. [but it can also be kind like the "Annunciation" it is kinda like...you know who..and that the number of the Christ is 888 and twice 888 is 1776...I think you get my drift here...]

So, Britain did try to show that the 'elephant' wasn't undeniable and if it had succeeded ..there would have been a baby* nation child but it died at birth or...you get the picture..and the same for indisputable or indefensible or whatever it was that was the right word ...and as We did 'Defend' it...and also resolve the 'dispute' into 'There's no disputing it"...
*[..and you could say, in this sense that Britain tried for an 'abortion'.

there...that's the simple skinny.

This nation called the United States of America was born at 12:00:01 AM July 4, 1776 at the geo-poilitcal center of the Capital building ..which at the time was Independence Hall [Colony of Penns. Representatives meeting house] which has the exact co-ordinates of 75*W 150025' & 39*N 948981'

[I asked my friend, the renowned clairvoyant, Clarisse Conner on this..this after noon..it was all green lights...two thumbs..etc..]

I've already analyzed the chart axis, symbols..the Part of Fortune...noted a bunch of the planetary/luminary symbols... [I would've got to more but...this has been one doozy of a exercise/effort and all the Parts and what not aren't going to change if I announce this right now and pick up on any of that later...those of you that can calc. Parts/Lots and know how to read the Sabian Symbols as to interpreting those [please, stick to diurnal ...as that is wha tIS...but..of course, ...IMHO...]

..it is symbolically ...quite profound and I see much more too...but I'm going to just toss it in the Ring... and stand back...[I am not going to try to bias it any more than I have..and have people accuse me trying to 'sway' opinion...not for awhile , anyways...[If I have to.]

...Let the brouhaha begin...:innocent:


One for the money...:pinched:

Two for the show:rolleyes:

Three to get ready:annoyed:

.....oh, the heck with that...:andy:

here ya go....:lol:
[rectified this an hour later than the posting time as its one second after Midnight and not one minute as the chart that was here...the PoF did change...it's still profound...but it also is pending any adjustment for the Long. & Lat, if that even amounts to anything, :whistling:]
Ladies and
Gentlemen ....
The birth chart of
the U.S.A. :kissing::love::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful:


  • U.S.A. Birth Chart [rectified to nearest minute ].jpg
    U.S.A. Birth Chart [rectified to nearest minute ].jpg
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Well-known member
.well, an observation here or two...
I did have to replace the first chart I had on the post above as it was 59 seconds later than when the 'elephant' first appeared. [note: This is in ref. to that first attempt I mentioned above that I took 'a stab at it" ...ptv]
This changed the Part of Fortune to the 26th of Scorpio and the Sabian is [Rudhyar]
[btw...the 'mindstar.com' link that had all the Sabians and the text by 'Rudhyar is down...I don't know if it'll be back either...grumble, bitck, gripe...b weary of Dick Ness...
"American Indians Making Camp After Moving Into A New Territory."
[... and Parts are 'symbolically active'....] whoa...that's ..uh...whoa:andy:

the Desc. is conj. my natal Neptune @ 21* Libra 53'

Ceres is conjunct Venus in the Yeshua/Jesus Chart [Check out the Sabian for the 9th of Pisces]

Saturn in this chart is 14* Libra 47' .

My Part of Divorce 15* Libra 06',

my Part of Love is 16* Libra 02'

The Asc. here is 21* Aries 30'

My Part of Fatality/Tragedy 23* Aries 13'

My Part of Treachery?; 22* Aries 49' interesting...hhmmmm?

[Asc. + Neptune -Sun]...and I'm not sure about this 'Part', as it is one of the recently discovered batch of parts..and these 'titles' that, "state what precept they are"... is an ongoing observational project of determining it by conclusive amounts of of evidence to statistically achieve that. I have a thread ongoing about this in the Degree Symbols sub forum..everyone invited and encourage to participate and it will be great when people start submitting their accounts of experiences with those
'Parts/Lots" that need more testimony to establish more evidence of cause for probability.
Well, at least these parts of mine are more than one degree out of conj. to the Asc. of the USA, so there's an Incontrovertible fact...the finger prints can't possibly be on the 'victim' so they do represent the symbols, either that proceed or follow, depending upon involutionary or an evolutionary interpretation of the chart it's may be a good thing..[To Die to defend ones country..be the 'Tragedy/Fatality..as the Part for Jesus/Yeshua from that chart I got..his is summed up by Rudhyar as 'The Beautiful Necessity"..and the Symbol it self is of an Old Bridge over a beautiful stream ..still being constantly used... and the Man from Naz., as many of you Christians and some of you of the other faiths, have heard him described at times as in the afterlife He is the ... 'The Bridge' to the ''Other Side''*...and a couple/few times I've heard the added phrase "...over the stream " or the beautiful stream"...maybe a 'River Styx' thing...

..so, conclusion...wow, I just talked about my ancestor that fought in the american Revolution who was a Quaker Funkite, [look up that on 'google']...and I did say to today that, as far as the Sons of the American Revolution' go... I'm one of the Sons of a Funkite of the American Revolution.

[it's a thought...the 'Funkites' represented those Americans that believed in the teachings of Yeshua/Jesus and the word of their Bible and were C.O.'s [Mennonites, and a number other Anabaptist sects, of which Quakers are one, also... ] and heeded the words of Bishop Christian Funk, [yes, that was the Bishops actual name.]that chased a 'schism' within the Mennonite religion...they formed around 1778 and they ceased to exist when the last one they say..which they claim be around 1850...my ancestor in that war lived to be well over 80 and he was born around 1753/4, so that sounds about right.
...here's an excerpt from wiki

"...The Funkite congregation formed during the late 18th century when the colonies were building support to separate from English rule. A Mennonite Bishop, Christian Funk of Franconia Township, Pennsylvania, spoke in favor of supporting the movement. Bishop Funk realized that Mennonites as will as other Anabaptist departed Europe due to religious persecution, and he feared that if this new country would fall under European rule that religious persecution would continue. He preached that Mennonites should stand up to support revolution against European rule and dominance. Otherwise everything they gained might be lost. This went against the doctrines held by Mennonites of non-violence, pacifism, and swearing oath of allegiance. Another issue which Funk advocated was the support of the revolutionary war tax. Again this was contrary to Mennonite doctrines..."

..so yeah, now I see it..anything that would be betraying me would be betraying my Country tis of thee...
..a Funkite is a C.O. at heart & soul and don't start no wars...

and i''m the seventh grandson of a Funkite...

..and I did say just the other day...that I didn't get drafted..my lottery # was 337, I was advised go to Canada by an Uncle that was the C.I.A. Liason to the Chief of Saigon police, in '69, when I was 16
...he said, '..if this war is still going on when you turn 18 ...you get your a$$ across the Canadian border, it's a fupped duck situation, and getting worse..and you don't want no part of that."
So, I wasn't faced with that decision after all...I've never started physical fight ..[although my 'Baby' brother would give cause to 'refute'...I told some one that I am a Pacifist of a sort but if this country was in danger , yes I would risk mine..I will fight, ...it is like that... as Arjuna was faced with on the 'Field'.OM Hare Krishna OM]

..oh yeah... We want the Funk!:whistling::joyful::innocent::smile:


* , [one of them, with proper respect to all other religions that have had 'Avatars' in ..to the 'other side of the stream'...


Well-known member
...ooooh...major dish...

The symbol of the 'Pugalist' at Aries 20* is in the Evolutionary direction of the Horoscope...

well, bless my soul...

even more ...
...Chiron...on the degree that is the Pugalist

The Wounded Healer
... - - - _ _ ___\\\ ! Healing the wounded ! /// __ _ _ - - - ...

:surprised: Man.....this is heavy!

in musing this over..it is like saying the first step in the existence of the nation was to 'Heal the wounded'
...this attempt to see if I could find a chart that would give me a reason for more than a second glance...
...I've lost count...
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Well-known member
..plus the Asc symbol...[by Lynda Hill's book... "The Sabian Oracle. 360 Degrees of Wisdom"}:.:>>
"The Gate Opens To The Garden Of All Fulfilled Desires"



Well-known member
Interestingly, I happened to be listening to Tool's AEnima for the first time in a while when I read this. Come to the aid of the burning, sinking ship? This nation has gone too far past the threshold. It deserves to burn and it will. Making a pact with God to be granted our own country wasn't the greatest idea if we were just going to welch on the deal as we have. Isn't that what we always do, though? I'm sure God isn't surprised. Preservation of the past is a mistake. If you want to prepare, go find a peaceful place in the woods, far away from any population centre, and build a small community of love-minded people. Those communities are the only ones that will stand through the storms that are coming. There is no escape; only preparation.


Well-known member
[I'm leaving this post in the sequence, as some of you will be interested in this..as it concerns and utilizes that chart I claim to be that of Jesus/Yeshua...thus there are some of you that may not be interested in this...just skip this post then, for those of you that wish to . Thanx for understanding, ptv]


Check it out

A USA/Yeshua chart compoite

...see the Part of Fortune?

read the symbol for the 22ndd of Capricorn

The 22nd of Capricorn is my Part of Faith:surprised::andy::sideways::joyful::joyful::joyful::innocent:

..and ya know what?

it's Lynda Hills Asc.!:sideways: [if you need to see this chart go to the 'Sticky' thread or cast one for yourselves. thank, ptv.]
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Well-known member
[Some of you may wish to skip this post. It concerns the subject of reincarnation, ancient legends {Arthurian, is one of those.}, belief in predestiny, and clairvoyance. Skip this too if you'd prefer. It doesn't alter the facts of this particular chart for 12:00:01 AM July 4, 1776 @ [current address of location] Independence Hall, 520 Chestnut St, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, which stands alone from all such other matters of such subjects...of which all of them are in the following post. Thanx, ptv]

Here's my friend Suryakants birth chart.
Suryakant was Sir Galahad, according to Clarisse,
The Legend states that Sir Galahad didn't die...
as He was the one knight to find the Holy Grail and for that the 'Angels Ascended Him into Heaven, and he became the Knight with a foot in two realms...that of Heaven and Earth."

if you'll notice he has the same N.Node as the USA...the reverse of mine....

Suryakants B.C. [if you need to see this chart go to the 'Sticky' thread, thanks, ptv.]
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Well-known member
As some of you are aware I've had issues with the current President of the USA, as to His being that and also qualified for the position.

His Part of Catastrophe is the 1st Pisces and is a symbol of the "Marketplace",
which I thought at first may be in ref. to his pre Presidential biz. dealings and most specifically that guy in Chicago his name is associated with. Now I'm pretty doggon sure that it's much worse than that ...it's meaning is the 'National' economy... and the Part has consistently shown itself to be that of self inflicted ...not a passive receptive sort of deal...

His Part of Imprisonment, which has consistently shown itself to be 'THAT WHICH ONE IS NOT PERMITTED TO COME NEAR' ... as mine is about being part of any 'team endeavor' as to group achievement... as my brothers is also the same degree and sign as that which is also his Part of Increase and Benifit$ ...he was unable to make his way in a capitalistic world... if he got a job at all, He was always unable to keep it..not due to his work habits or abilities..it just was.
Obama's Part of Imprisonment is the 19th of Pisces [same as Amy Winehouse] which was Yeshua/Jesus Part of Fortune according to that chart that I claim to be that of the 'Man from Naz.' and also happens to be my Part of Inheritance and Legacy, "The Master Instructs The Disciple". [which i say may not prove that he is not an 'apostate' but it darn well shows that... He is not a Christian.

..well, yesterday, back a few posts ago, I noted that my part of Treachery is the 23rd of Aries...interestingly that is Pres. Obama's Part of Eros..

My M.C. and Part of Fortune is the 25th of Leo... which is Yeshua/Jesus' Part of Eros

[the Part of Eros: Asc + Venus - Part of Spirit {Diurnal formula ...only please, imho....of course} It is that Part that informs as to the type of, or nature of the quality that one seeks in those that He/she is seeking as to have for their closest associations.]

...oh wow...I just realized that it is also conj. [almost positive that it is not more than one degree possibly within even a half degree] the Asc. of the USA ..now I know even more about why I don't like Him.
..it almost seems as if he had been choosen for this role at an early age knowing he could woo the public...


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If you'll notice that Mars is in the 21st degree of Gemini on the natal event and that the current progressed chart has a PoF narly there.
...also the progressed Venus is conj. the Asc at the 22nd of Aries

Gemini 21* symbol is "A Tumultuous Labor Demonstration"

...I suspect that something is about to soon get rolling ... I do believe

...I do believe...

..rolling down Wall St. once again....

ps and Uranus has almost made a full return to natal position.
interestingly the natal chart for Jesus had a full return to Asc Axis and the Moon last year around the end of July but instead of 0* Libra 43' for Asc. and 29* Virgo 24' as in the natal...IT WAS EXACTLY REVERSED ... Asc. 0* Aries 43' and Moon 29* Pisces 24'

Also progressed Jupiter will be conj. the 16th of Cancer [my natal Uranus... "A Man Studying A Mandala In Front Of him With The Help Of A Very Ancient Book"
..way cool... sounds like the USA is ready for some Sabian Symbolic Astrology this year...to guide them through 2012 just when it will be needed most.:cool:


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well, this ain't about me but the uncanny coincidences that I've been getting over and over...
My Solar return chart next year will have the 21st of Gemini as Asc. My Solar return chart this year has the exact same Part of Fortune as my natal chart.

I'm getting the 'feeling' that I may get to have a some opportunity of note present itself in this coming year, something for this nation...well, always happy to be of assistance...[it sure is coincidental to finding this chart at this particular time...I never had need to look for it before...wasn't at all even curious but the India birth chart was such a revelation that it got me interested in what the USAs must be like...

I hate using up precious file space [esp now we are limited]
but I figure I need to provide my Solar return chart for 2013 as mentioned


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The may 2013 Uranus/Pluto square is directly hitting The Lee Resolutions Sun.

Gee thanks ...the Asc. for your chart is my Asc. it 's also. one of the 'LETHAL' points of a Septile matrix constructed to the Asc. of the Natal chart of the USA
the Asc being one of the pts. in a Septile Matrix [it's an aspect of Fatality..ya' all..and if they are all completed that were unfilled at birth... yeah, it's usually over....it's a very dangerous situation we have here..

[most all of you have very little experience with 'Septiles' if any at all.. like I said...
you might want to stand back for awhile... unless you know how to 'wrangle' with 'Septiles']
The Septile Matrix is as follows starting with the Asc. of the USA natal chart.

ASC. 21* Aries 54' 00" ...Obama's progressed Asc., conj. current Venus-progressed USA natal [post #203]
13* Gemini 19' 12"
04* Leo 44' 24" ... close to my, Suryakant's & USA's natal node
26* Virgo 09' 36" ...conj, current Neptune-progressed USA natal
17* Scorpio 34' 48" ...oh, gee there my Asc. again
09* Capricorn 00' 00" ...and transiting Pluto is sitting rt. here...right now
00* Pisces 25' 12" ...here's transiting Neptune rt. now


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You'll notice that only the Leo and Gemini points are free from being affected at the present time.

...and I do hope that at least some of you see that, 'THIS IS THE CHART",
...I mean...cheese's... The MOMENT July 4th began in 1776 dead center of the building that was considered to be the capital at the moment of 'Birth'...What's not to understand after given all the evidence and cause that I just have?

..those that wish to nay say it..be my guest...
...but those of you that are more discerning.... please, ...
:ninja: I hope you will all help me keep watch on this situation...:bandit:

[That is all of what's 're-posted' from the sticky. Thanks, ptv
...so...balls in your guys court...go for it.]
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[New posts from here on ...except for the one above in comment by 'Mark' and my reply to 'Mark' a couple of posts later. Thanx, you all. ptv]

Well, looking back over what I've got so far...it seems that I should also do a Solar Return chart for the natal USA chart and that of the Presidents natal chart [as I did do the progressed charts but not 'Solar Return Charts', of which I, only just relatively, very recently discovered to my satisfaction that these 'Solar Return charts have both legitimacy and worth.
[Also it would be really-cool if anyone who has done composite charts for notable Americans with some other natal birth chart for the USA , if they would recast that using this data and then sharing what they find out.]

So here's the Solar Return chart for Pres. Obama this year.

The first hing that strikes me is the Horizon of the chart. It is the 2nd degrees of the Cardinal signs Cancer and Capricorn. and a M.C. of the 21st of Pisces.
Those of you familiar with my 'proposed' birth chart of Jesus/Yeshua know that the axis of that chat is the 1st degrees of all the Cardinal signs,a Libra Asc., a Cancer M.C. and has a Part of Fortune at the 19th of Pisces.

My Yeshua/Jesus chart has Venus @ 08* Pisces 47' 02", Uranus @ 08* Aries 12' 30" and the Sun @ 11* Aries 52' 32"
This Solar Return chart for the president has Chiron @ 08* Pisces 31' 14",
Uranus @ 08* Aries 20' 49", and 'Pallas' @ 11* Aries 25' 34":w00t:WOW
[ps. btw... the Part of Daughters for the Yeshua/Jesus chart is 08* Pisces 05',
also Obama's S.R. chart has Saturn @ 24* Libra 03' 46" ...the Part of Marriage for the Yeshua/Jesus chart is 24* Libra 39' ...and I'm not saying or insinuating anything here other than, " I'm just sayin' "]

The USA natal chart has a Part of Fortune 25* Scorpio 40' 42" .
The Obama Solar return has Lilith @ 25* Taurus 43' 51"
[I find this VERY intriguing, considering Obamas part of Eros is the 23rd of Aries {The same as my Part of Treachery} and the allegations by some notable spokespersons in American society that refer to President Obama as the "Long Legged Mack Daddy" and his 'Svengali' like persona or aura, that some women apparently have shown evidence of being captivated/fascinated by....according to these same sources of whom a certain Rev. Manning might be considered to be the most outspoken of the lot.]
Well, I have in fact stated online...i.e 'For the record', that I don't believe [which is saying..it's only my surmise] Obama to be a 'True Apostate', but that I'm certain he never became a Christian or is certainly 'imprisoned' from the teachings of Yeshua/Jesus in the sense he can't grasp, or, embrace, or possibly even let on to that he does...but likely in the sense..it just 'doesn't/cannot/won't' happen as for reason that of his Part of Imprisonment being the 19th of Pisces, as I stated in a post above, which is symbolized by the Sabian Symbol of "A Master Instructs His Disciple", regardless of whether you believe as I do that it is the Part of Fortune of Yeshua/Jesus.

But could all these connections in his Solar Chart for this year be an indication of His 'coming around to the flock'?

[more to follow in a few...mo'minment's]


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The Solar Return chart for the USA this year ,2012 has Uranus at the 9th of Aries also. Chiron is at that time in the 10th degree of Pisces and Pallas will be in the 10 of Aries.
The node is in the 5th of Sag. this is the where the node will be also at Mars' 'Final Return' from it's retrograde endeavor this spring'

Please permit me to repost, here, some of what I wrote about Mars retro for the period of Jan. - June 2012.

Mars went retro this past Jan 23rd [local Calif.] at 23* Virgo 05' 34"
Sabian [Rudhyar]:
KEYNOTE: The need to keep a vibrant and pure simplicity at the core of one's being as one meets the many tests of existence.
[D.R.'s keyword] INNOCENCE"

[from my article]I've talked about this degree symbol before and how it differs from the other degree symbol that incorporates a lamb in that 'Mary's" lamb was always the one sure to follow. That is 'Spiritual Agencies' believing in us ..'Humanity'. The complete turnaround of us following them and imploring for their assistance...they are entreating us.

The 'WHY' of this to human society as a whole is represented by the symbol for the North Node at the time ...which was at 13* Sag. 11'
the 14th degree of Sagittarius [ibid. ...and interestingly it was Dane Rudhyar"s Asc]

KEYNOTE: The enduring power of occult knowledge and of its quasi-divine Custodians, "Seed-men" of a previous cycle of existence.

[from my article on Mars retro]So when Mars goes direct it will be [local time] April 13th, 2012

Mars will be @ 03* Virgo 31'...interestingly this is the degree I get for my proposed birth chart of Yehua/Jesus...the symbol of 'Brotherhood' and White and a Black child playing together.
The Cosmos is saying that for Mars/Action to continue on it got stuck at 'Innocence"...[and , GEE? I can't imagine WHY..can YOU?]

and what this means is we have to back track and stimulate more 'Brotherhood' into action...the kind of brotherhood that crosses all perceived boundaries.

The North Node at that time spells it out specifically for Humankind @ 05* 57'
...and it will be a 05* Sag. 02 at the Final return [6//19/2012 @ local time 12:57 pm] so this is a very important symbol to understand why the additional 'Brotherhood' understanding/energy and to satisfy that 'Innocence' that Mars must meet a certain criteria of.


KEYNOTE: The development of skill in group-situations testing collective goals.

... society is built on the interplay between groups of people,...group united by an at least temporary aim. ...[people have specific and particular 'positions' on the field of play]... and definite rules have to be obeyed. The game teaches... ...skill, .. fairness and cooperation. [what is symbolized is] the value of making individual-will or ego-will subservient to collective cultural patterns is emphasized....

This...symbol .... refers to the importance of developing [Rudhyar's Keyword] GROUP SOLIDARITY."

In the thread on Mars retrograde that I posted a member of this forum [name forgotten, excuse me] that replied in their post:
"Wow. Is it significant that Mars went retro almost to the degree squaring the June 15 2011 Lunar eclipse (Sun at 24*Gem 24" opp. Moon 24*Sag24") and will turn direct almost exactly at the degree of the August 27 1969 lunar eclipse (Sun 3*Vir 58" opp. Moon 3* Pis 58")?"

...and I replied then: ""Good looking out...thanks for the 'Heads Up' observences...I'll give them some study later this eve.

I'm curious...though, as to Mars getting 'Stuck'...at

..is it because WE no longer have THAT [kind of...specific?...overall?...or?] innocence...or does it mean we have to re-kindle a kind of innocence that unabashed brotherhood is?


Also please note that Venus in the Solar Return will be conj. Uranus in the natal, in the 9th degree of Gemini. Saturn will be in the 23rd of Libra, and conjunct my natal Saturn, Jupiter will be in the 5th of Gemini , and conjunct my natal Mars. The I.C. will be the 16th of Cancer, conjunct my natal Uranus..and it's that Sabian Symbol about 'Studying the [Astrological] mandala with the assistance of an ancient book. [That 'Seed knowledge we just had addressed in regards to Mars retro.]

the 'Solar Return Chart' of 2012 ...of the USA


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[This will be my last post until later...it's now after 8pm and I've done nothing else today but study and write about this...time for a break....maybe till tomorrow...
...also...To the above post I wish to add [remind] to it the observation that in the USA 'Progressed Chart' that Jupiter is also in the 16th of Cancer and thus also conj. the I.C. of the 'Solar Chart'.

This emphasis on the 9-10 degree of Capricorn, especially as it is one of those 'Septile points' I mentioned is that the Sextile YOD I spotted this coming, much heralded and hyped, Dec. 21st :annoyed::unsure: has that degree as one of the players in the YOD ....and the N.Node on Dec. 21st?

@ 26th of Scorpio..the Part of Fortune of the USA natal chart! :surprised::andy:

...here's a link to the 'YOD" article I wrote...