Time of birth approx ?

Stevicus

Member
I cant seem to jog my old mothers memory regards my time of birth. I know its between 6:03 & 6:13 pm so if anyone thinks that its just too vague to be of any use is there anything else that can be worked out with such an approximate time ?

Cheerz
 

Moog

Well-known member
I'd say that was easily good enough to start with. With matching some events with transits and dasas, Bob's your uncle.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I cant seem to jog my old mothers memory regards my time of birth. I know its between 6:03 & 6:13 pm so if anyone thinks that its just too vague to be of any use is there anything else that can be worked out with such an approximate time ? Cheerz
That's not vague Stevicus! :smile:

If your time of birth is considered reasonably accurate, as in this case, the idea is to create your natal chart if you have not already done so and then make a list of important events in your life thus far. Then you check for transits to angles of your chart - MC/IC/ASC/DESC - as well as to planets/house rulers in order to fine tune/verify your time of birth. Not all astrologers use identical methods, each astrologer has their own opinion as to how to do this. Your appearance is generally a good indication of your ascendant sign/its ruling planet/as well as aspects to it

Some useful events would be the exact dates of:

(1) any/all relocations to another home (transits to 4th)

(2) relocating abroad (transits to 4th)

(3) marrying (transits to 7th)

(4) important relationship begins (transits to 7th house/ruler of 7th)

(5) becoming a parent (transits to 4th/5th and ruler of 4th/5th)

(6) new job (transits to MC)

(7) losing a job (transits to MC)

(8) any accidents/hospitalisations/falls (transits to Ascendant)

(9) degree ceremony (transits to MC)

(10) obtaining any important qualification (Transits to MC)

(11) being given an award (Transits to MC)

(12) ending a relationship (transits to 7th/ruler of 7th)

(13) date of divorce being finalised (transits to 7th/ruler of 7th)

(14) birth of brother/sister (transits to 3rd/ruler of 3rd)

that's just the basics :smile:
 

Stevicus

Member
If thats what i can do then i am much happier so thank you for the great advice and first things first : i need to do a chart .

I have an astrology program i havent got to grips with yet so i will have a play around and see what i can learn...

Im not familiar with the mechanics of making and reading charts but i have a very good understanding of how it all works and now im really excited that ive decided to act on it.

Again thanx for the info i will be back with more ??? :biggrin:
 
Make the chart for 6:08 and you can't be more than five minutes wrong.

That can still make about a grade's difference in the house system, therefore also the Ascendant and MC. For the rest, though, it hardly makes any difference at all (maybe with the exception of the moon, if you try some advanced transit calculation).

My guess is that most people, although confident of an exact birth date, have at least a similar uncertainty.

Stefan Stenudd
http://www.horoscoper.net
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Interesting that there is a parallel thread on this subject and for ease of reference I'm providing a linked quote posted earlier today:
fwiw SourceDirect91, a routine series of questions regarding accuracy of birth times is “Was the clock/watch that provided the time of your birth accurate? Was it slow or was it fast? Even if that clock/watch was accurate to a theoretical millisecond, was your mother looking at it at the precise moment she was giving birth to you?"... Most would consider that unlikely. It is not unusual to find that many birth times are estimated/rounded up to the nearest half hour, hour or quarter hour. I recall an interesting thread on this forum to which a member who is a hospital nurse contributed and said from her own personal experience, birth times are written/noted at variable times after the physical event.

This is because after a birth both mother AND child require some medical attention as well as routine checks and the top priority for medical staff is the welfare of the patient – time is of secondary importance.

By the time the child has been bathed, weighed, clothed and the mother has been attended to a half an hour may have passed before a nurse is completing medical records and so checks the time and notes it. A nurse may mentally make an estimate e.g. “It was about half an hour ago/ten minutes ago/ five minutes ago...” and then note that estimate on medical records. Parents who are astrologers naturally note the time but not everyone is born to parents who are co-incidentally astrologers!
:smile: Many astrologers therefore check the chart against transits in order to establish whether or not it is a 'working chart'...... Astrologers favor varying methods, one of which is to note the physical appearance as it is generally thought to be a good indication of the ascendant sign/its ruling planet/as well as aspects to it
 

Stevicus

Member
I was at my daughters birth and there in the room was a nice accurate clock on the wall that tallied nicely with a wrist watch and as soon as my lil un opened her eyes to look at me & let out the first aaa it was 7:14 am.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I was at my daughters birth and there in the room was a nice accurate clock on the wall that tallied nicely with a wrist watch and as soon as my lil un opened her eyes to look at me & let out the first aaa it was 7:14 am.

Good that you have an accurate and reliable chart for your daughter Stevicus!
You are interested in matters astrological, so you took personal responsibility and noted the precise time - however the same cannot be said for the vast majority of births and that's why rectification techniques are available for those whose times of birth are questionable :smile:
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I too would recommend using the midpoint of time, ie 6:08, for erecting the chart (as suggested by Stefan Stenudd, above) Yes, many believe in rectification based on life events-however I consider this an often questionably accurate practice (this of course is a minority opinion) and I prefer other methods when the birth time is not known (such as using the dodecatemory of the Moon like the ancients often did) or, when there is a reasonable time-frame of the birth, to use an average between the 2 times, such as in this specific case...
 
I did some minor research into the question of how accurate the time of birth given at delivery really is. My impression was that most nurses take it quite seriously, making sure to note the proper time - traditionally the first breath.

When an exact time is given, like 6:24, I usually regard it as accurate within the minute - i.e. 6:23 - 6:25. But people may have a tendency to "even" the time, for some or other reason. So, if it's given as 6:20, I think it could be anything between, say, 6:18 and 6:22. By the same reasoning, 6:15 could be approximately 6:10 - 6:20 (since we tend to think in quarters of hours), 6:30 anything in the span 6:20 - 6:40.

And 6:00 I don't trust at all. It's particularly true for this hour, 6, compared to the other hours, in my experience. So many claim to have been born at 6 o'clock (usually AM, but quite frequently PM as well). Also many mothers claim with confidence this to be the case. It's something about how we look symbolically at the 24 hour timespan: 6 is the start of the day at AM, and the start of the night at PM.

So, when people say they're born at 6:00, I ask them to double check. Triple check, if they come back with the same time. And if they insist it's 6:00, I still read their chart with unease and carefulness.
 

Kannon

Well-known member
I cant seem to jog my old mothers memory regards my time of birth. I know its between 6:03 & 6:13 pm so if anyone thinks that its just too vague to be of any use is there anything else that can be worked out with such an approximate time ?

Cheerz

Prodding your mother's memory probably won't get you an accurate chart. Using a 6:08 chart probably will not either.

I recommend making sure the rising sign fits you. Read a variety of descriptions starting with mine:
Asc Sign Descriptions If the rising sign fits, then you know you've probably got it within 30 degrees. If it doesn't fit you, then look at the previous sign. Most charts that don't fit have to be adjusted back a sign.

Mothers' memories are notoriously inconsistent from one to another. I have clients first give me their mother's memory, then find their birth certificate and see it differs by hours. Some mothers have a good memory for these things, others do not. Some recall the times, but mix up which time goes with which child. A document is best to start with.

In the U.S. not only are birth times recorded with erratic accuracy, but in some regions and localities there is actual disdain amongst some medical staff members for the reasons for recording this birth time accurately (astrology). In Australia birth times are kept on a hospital-only document until the certificate is ordered by the person. I have an Australian client whose birth time of record disagreed with the observations of relatives (and my rectification) by more than 4 hours.

This is far more a problem than astrologers would like to admit. Some simply won't look at the problem at all. Because of this I rarely do a consult without first validating the chart as authentic. This can be done, but most astrologers don't want to take the time to do it or don't know how.

So the important thing here is to make sure that you match the description of the Asc/1st house condition of the supposed chart. If something is off there, the chart may need to be adjusted.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Prodding your mother's memory probably won't get you an accurate chart. Using a 6:08 chart probably will not either. I recommend making sure the rising sign fits you....

...........In the U.S. not only are birth times recorded with erratic accuracy, but in some regions and localities there is actual disdain amongst some medical staff members for the reasons for recording this birth time accurately (astrology). In Australia birth times are kept on a hospital-only document until the certificate is ordered by the person. I have an Australian client whose birth time of record disagreed with the observations of relatives (and my rectification) by more than 4 hours.

So the important thing here is to make sure that you match the description of the Asc/1st house condition of the supposed chart. If something is off there, the chart may need to be adjusted.
Astrologers agree that the rising sign is important:smile: Many astrologers factor in additional, equally important considerations as well. The following 80 word quote is sourced from http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/ascendant.html

QUOTE:
“The Ascendant AND first house determine your appearance and the physical body.

Any planet within 8
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]º[/FONT] or so of the Ascendant, either in the twelfth or first houses, will colour the general appearance.

Aspects made to the Ascendant from any planet will also bestow traits of whatever the planet rules, though in a much lesser degree than planets conjunct it.


Any planet afflicting the ascendant is indicative of some kind of health problem, or a prominent blemish upon the body”
 

Shanti

Well-known member
Isaac starckman who is the best rectifier I ever seen, says that charts is approximately off 5-10 minutes average. I feel this is quite close to what I believe as well.

Too much reliance on physical characteristics, and sequently adjust the birthchart by an hour or two to match. If this is true then 95 % of all astrology as it is and was practicied over the centuries was false, and an illusion. Which is highly unlikely imo.

Then there is the issue if charts with 100 % accurate time really fits in all cases ?

Some reputable and able astrologers says that some of these charts fit perfectly but with a slightly differrent time.

This is also what Kannon says (in all respect), but not with these big unreasonable adjustments of time imo.

Hard to check this though, as it is quite rare with perfectly clocked charts.
Maybe Stevicus can stay along this thead for some decades to report how the daughter is doing...and if the chart fits perfectly... :happy:
 
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Kannon

Well-known member
Shanti,

If you'd done the amount of in-depth chart research I have you'd probably end up disillusioned that astrology isn't really reliable afterall. But there's nothing wrong with the stars, just the ideations humans place upon them.

Your statements come from an assumption that the first breath theory is correct, from not acknowledging the extent of human imperfection, as well as from a romanticizing of historic astrology practice. The first breath theory is nice and neat, as well as common-sensical, but never has been proven and produces birth horoscopes that simply do not match too many individuals to ignore. The recorded time of birth is only a starting place for setting the correct Asc. There is an irregular interval between the moment of birth exoteric and the correct Asc. Always has been, probably always will be.

I'll put my rectification work up against Starkman's anytime anywhere.

My advice stands: read a variety of sources to ensure that the rising sign fits what is obvious in the personality especially. Rising fire signs are not introverts. Strongly earthy/water Ascendants are not bold extroverts. It's not difficult really. If astrology is real then it has to be consistent within itself. Take each individual case on its own. The correct chart will be what the person, their body (which cannot lie) and their life says is correct, not what an outside source suggests it 'should' be.

Giving an amateur astro buff rectification advice usually doesn't help either. I don't do it much anymore since most of the time it just creates confusion.
 

Janus

Well-known member
I checked the description of Ascendant characteristics, and Gemini Rising (My supposed Asc. in my natal chart) fits me to a T.

Also, someone noted in another topic that Nurses often can't note the time of birth till half an hour after the birth took place. That may be true of some hospitals, but not necessarily true of all. I asked my mother (a Nurse) about it, as I knew my recorded birth time and wanted to make sure it was correct. She said that even if the nurses at the hospital she worked at didn't record the time straight away, they would usually note the time of birth WHEN it happened, keep it in their mind, and THEN record it after the duties of taking care of the mother and child are done.

Whether that happens in all places I cannot say. Whether that happened at MY own time of birth, I also cannot say as my mother said she couldn't remember! **** you mum, now there's doubt in my mind! :D I can't really blame here though, I was a breech birth and I weighed about 9 Pounds, so I think I gave her a hard time at birth. Also I came out all bruised and stuff. Oh well. I'm just going to assume my time of birth is correct unless I find out any differently!
 
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