Thomas H Burgoyne

Opal

Premium Member
I felt this should be visible to people to read. I admire, her efforts. There is a rating system, but it is good to read what the ground rules were. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Lois Rodden and data grading
Birth times and birth certificates play a vital role in astrology.
Scientific astrologers and research technicians need birth data.
The work they do depends upon a time, date and place of birth.
Data is obtained from people, birth certificates, family records, hospital records and written documents.
It comes via personal contact, phone conversations, letters, books and the internet and the astrologer’s first duty, on receiving the data, is to validate its authenticity and level of accuracy.
But during the first half of the 20th-century data-grading was not a top of the list priority for astrologers.
Poor accuracy standards
America had experienced an astrology revival during the 1930s, but accuracy standards were low.
There was no regulation and many so-called astrologers couldn’t construct an accurate birth chart.
Then in 1939 war erupted in Europe.
It was a period of great political and social upheaval and the astrologers required birth-data to explain what was going on and to predict outcomes.
But in the rush to get the birth details of the political and other change agents involved in the revolutionary transformation they forgot to heed Alan Leo’s informed comment that ‘…the average recorded birth time may be presumed correct within ten minutes or a quarter of an hour’ and that ‘most published nativities must be regarded as more or less approximate’ and then they neglected to validate the data’s accuracy.
Then, some astrologers realizing they were working with approximate birth times concluded that the charts required rectification.
The end result was an astonishing array of rectification techniques all promising amazing results, but all hopelessly unreliable.
A great idea gets hatched
This was the state of play until the 1970s when Lois Rodden and a handful of other data collectors in America realized that much of the birth-data that was being used by astrologers was simply hearsay, rectified guesswork or pure speculation.
It was a woeful situation that was adversely affecting the scientific status and credibility of astrology.
Then the idea to verify and validate existing and new birth-data got hatched.
The end result was The Rodden Rating System.
The Rodden Rating System
To quote Lois Rodden from her book Profiles of Women:
‘The Rodden Rating System of accuracy developed quite spontaneously at the time that Profiles of Women was in the process of publication (in late 1979), and has been used in each of the successive data collections.
Collectors around the world have recognized the simplicity and efficiency of the rating system.
AA Accurate data from birth-certificate, civic record or written family source
A Accurate as quoted by the person, kin, intimate friend or associate
B Biography or autobiography
C Caution, no source. Undocumented data, an ambiguous quote or a source that has not proven credible
DD Dirty data: two or more unsubstantiated quotes
Data accuracy is always a problem.
We data collectors (and we would add those doing astro-research) become very skeptical as the very nature of recorded information is such that human error accumulates in spite of the best intentions.
There is no data book or collection that is without flaw.
Though it is possible to find cases when the birth certificate is in error, AA data is the best evidence we have of accurate birth information.
Data rating explainers
‘A’ data may or may not be accurate.
Please keep in mind that public figures, especially politicians, answer a public question to be accommodating rather than specific in regard to their birth time.
The answer of ‘8.00am, midnight, 6.00pm, just before noon’, or variations thereof may be gracious but totally inaccurate or the time given may be approximate.
The chance of accuracy is better when the public figure is a client of an astrologer who requests data from birth records.
‘B’ data may or may not be accurate.
A person may lie about their age in their autobiography, and authors lean toward descriptions of a ‘wild and stormy night.’
Literary license may be suspected unless the authors specify their source of information.
Biographers who market scandal and gossip may actually create misinformation for the sake of shock value.
‘C’ data may or may not be accurate.
Until a source can be traced there is no way to know if this data has any validity.
When magazines and journals are quoted without the original source they may only be considered as reference; i.e. Data from Profiles of Women is not a source but a reference.
‘DD’ – Dirty Data – is presented for reference only and often stimulates correspondence that leads to correction and confirmation.
As we astrologers work together for the good of our field, we all benefit, improving our data base world wide.’
Lois ended her explanation of the various data classifications with a plea: ‘Give the source of your data – and put the source on every chart.’
Three cheers for Lois Rodden
There’s no doubt that the development of the Rodden Rating System was the best thing to happen to astrology in the second half of the 20th-Century.
Three cheers for Lois Rodden.
Now, when new or old birth data becomes available, the person providing the data must state its source and those wishing to use the data can rate its authenticity and accuracy – particularly the accuracy of the birth time.
The practice, which was quickly adopted, represents an important, positive development in astrology’s chequered history.
Lois also did everyone a big favor by applying her rating system to all the older US data she had collected.
This came from astrological organizations – like The Church of Light – data collections – like Sabian Symbols – and the astrological magazines that were very popular during the 1930s and 1940s.
It was a massive task.
She collected thousands of data over many years that revealed just how undisciplined the astrological community was in the first half of the 20th-century.
While some pre-1950 data was sourced to birth certificates, birth records and family records and given a AA rating most of it was so poorly sourced it had to be given a C or DD rating.
This meant that it was either made up, speculative or wrecktified.
Now the astrological community reveres AA birth data.
The birth time has been documented on a birth certificate or family record.
But the evidence reveals that some AA data is best described as almost accurate and is not accurate enough for those important research projects that require an almost precise ascendant degree.
 

Monk

Premium Member
I'm not happy with Astrodatabank, they cant even get the M.C. correct regarding Bill Clinton, how many times have we astrologers examined data from them that is inccurate?



I have a question i would like help on concerning President Bill Clinton,


I have an M.C. for him on my own program approx. 22* Gemini, like below:-


https://astro-charts.com/persons/chart/bill-clinton/


But if you click on "Birthtime Credit Rodden" from Astro Data Bank it will show the chart but with a different M.C. in Cancer, have you any idea's why this has happened? It would mean he has an Alnilam M.C. by projected fixed star measure.
 

Opal

Premium Member
We know that Lois M. Rodden rectified her own birth chart as she didn't know the time.....but did she enhance it, make it a more powerful chart?


https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rodden,_Lois_M.


These links are confusing, please click on "Search for this page title" after clicking on above link, then click on the first link at top of the page, it will also tell you about her personal history!

She gives her own data a "C" rating, may or may not be right. You would think that she would have a better rating for her own self rectified chart.
 

Opal

Premium Member
by the way, my time comes from the birth certificate issued from the hospital of birth, with my foot prints stamped on.:happy:
 

Opal

Premium Member
Hi Opal,


There are 4 Royal Persian Stars, they are powerful, being Aldebaran, Regulus, Antares and Fomalhaut, which you have on your chart.


It would seem that Lois M. Rodden wanted two persian stars on her chart for the time of birth that was rectified shows Antares on the M.C. (True South) by paran and Albebaran on the Nadir or I.C. by paran (True North).


Graph below:-

Her appearance, is similar to that of an Aquarian friend of mine, who is the only person I know that is or was into astrology. She studied Uranian Astrology, is a psychologist, and hypnotist, is very weird, and very disliked. I am her friend, those that know her well and longer than I, call her "your friend". She is very Christian now.
 

Opal

Premium Member
I'm not happy with Astrodatabank, they cant even get the M.C. correct regarding Bill Clinton, how many times have we astrologers examined data from them that is inccurate?



I have a question i would like help on concerning President Bill Clinton,


I have an M.C. for him on my own program approx. 22* Gemini, like below:-


https://astro-charts.com/persons/chart/bill-clinton/


But if you click on "Birthtime Credit Rodden" from Astro Data Bank it will show the chart but with a different M.C. in Cancer, have you any idea's why this has happened? It would mean he has an Alnilam M.C. by projected fixed star measure.

Wow, from virgo to libra asc, 13 degrees, both stating Rodden. :andy:
 

Monk

Premium Member
I have posted Bill Clintons M.C. below it is conjunct Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris star, IF THE TIME IS CORRECT!
 

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Monk

Premium Member
Hi Opal,
I like the correct chart that i posted from my Brady Starlight Program.


I agree with David, i wonder if they were trying to hide his Alnilam M.C.
 

Monk

Premium Member
Hi Opal,


When looking at George W. Bush's parans using ancient Egyptian day start being Sunrise, we find Alnilam rising as well on his birthday, the plot thickens.
Graph on private members download:-
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I have posted Bill Clintons M.C. below it is conjunct Alnilam, Belt of Orion and Osiris star,

IF THE TIME IS CORRECT!
Hi Monk :smile:
Bill Clintons natal chart has a Rodden Rating of A
the top Rodden Rating is AA
a Rodden Rating of A inidcates that the time of birth is from memory
anecdotal
and not based on medical records
not based on birth certificate
and so
the data is questionable
 

Monk

Premium Member
Hi Jup, David and Opal,


Whatever the time is, these charts are by computer program, i have no idea how Astro Data Bank can be so wrong with the M.C. of Bill Clinton, it is out of sync by 13 degrees!


I am finding a lot of Presidents with either a connection to Sirius or Alnilam, perhaps they have been groomed for high office because of this?


Perhaps Astro Data Bank has rectified to show this? There are many possibilities other than astrological ones.


Perhaps Bill Clinton didn't want the Alnilam M.C. shown?
 

Monk

Premium Member
Hi Opal,


The interpretation of Alnilam, Belt of Orion is wrong, or has different interpretation for Hermetic astrologers, that is different to normal astrology.


The whole of Washington DC, C.I.A and armed forces are alligned to either Sirius or Alnilam.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Hi Opal,


The interpretation of Alnilam, Belt of Orion is wrong, or has different interpretation for Hermetic astrologers, that is different to normal astrology.


The whole of Washington DC, C.I.A and armed forces are alligned to either Sirius or Alnilam.

How are they interpreted?
 

Monk

Premium Member
Hi David,


Bill Clinton was a member of Demolay, being the last Grand Master of the Knight Templar's he was arrested on 13th October, most of the alignments in Washington DC are parans, so have day starts, ancient Greek day start is previous day at location using sunset, modern midnight wasn't used until the clocks, so not to be used before 1582 and the Gregorian Calendar, and ancient Egyptian day marker being sunrise, however what i show, i feel is electional astrology.


It isn't possible now to know if George Washington was a Knight's Templar, link below:-
www.knightstemplar.org...
13th October was used in the construction of the White House, but is was a Saturday, so perhaps they were superstitious regarding the date DeMolay was arrested, perhaps it was symbolic of the Templar's galloping into Washington DC!
The date that construction finished was All Saints Day.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
On 13th October 1792 construction started, midnight day marker was used at location, with Sirius rising in the East, astronomy graph below:-
ep5be04e4c.png
 
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Monk

Premium Member
To pick a day when Sirius or Alnilam is in an auspicious area of the sky would come under the heading of "Electional Astrology", it was once used to plan wars etc, it looks likely that it is still used in the politics of the world:-
en.wikipedia.org...
I think that those that align Sirius and Alnilam feel it is heaven, where souls go to, or is where god lives. They align events to get good fortune in their actions, whether this works or not is highly controversial!
Probably the best way to explain this is the action of President Eisenhower who approved the Motto of "In God We Trust" for the United States on 30th July 1956 in Washington DC.
en.wikipedia.org...
The heliacal rising of Sirius is very auspicious, it is thought that the ancient Egyptian calendar started on this day, so perhaps we all follow Egyptian Gods and Goddesses, but didn't know it!
rn5bddbee3.png
 
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