The Value and Meaning of a Personal Horoscope

Kannon

Well-known member
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In the last few days the Sun transited across my Ascendant and I'm now reminded of how helpful it is to have an accurate horoscope with which to track the highly individual cycles of our own lives. The Sun crossing the Ascendant is like a second birthday, but even more essential to horoscopic astrology than the Sun's position in the natal chart. This is because your astrological year ends, then begins at the natal Ascendant point.

As Nature intended, I got the nudge I needed for a new start. A decisive change that shifted from nebulous, internal states of mind that were very hard to put into language and were useless to psychoanalyze (Sun in 12th house). As the Sun moved across my Ascendant into my 1st house there was a subtle but definite shift of energy that gave me a day in which to be decisive and re-envision what I want my life to be. Self back in Action. There are many out there who could also use such a nudge, a window of opportunity for a new start, to know when it will be each year.

Over and over the horoscopes of celebrities and regular individuals have proven to be off the mark at the Ascendant by degrees, even by signs, leaving some individual horoscopes in need of serious adjustment. The late seer Edgar Cayce said horoscopes in his day averaged one sign off on the Ascendant. We could discuss, argue and agree to disagree all day long about the reasons or causes of such a thing. I'm more interested in having an accurate horoscope that truly reflects my own personal life cycles - to the day as transits and progressions happen. As an astrologer I'm interested in helping others achieve this. That is why I do tough rectifications many astrologers don't even acknowledge need to be done or simply prefer not to do anyway. Some charts off by literally two signs on the Ascendant will mis-time transits of planets Jupiter and outward two years or more. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto transits will then be decades off in such charts. This means tracking your life cycles of the planets moving through your horoscope from Start (Asc) to Finish (1st cusp) will not be helpful at all. What you are left with is natal chart info and the struggle to find yourself. Being a Uranian individual this bothers me. I want people's minds to be liberated through self awareness.

If you want to know that your chart is accurate on the Ascendant, please put it to the test. Look for an astrologer or multiple sources of information regarding (1) Ascendant signs (2) Aspects to Asc and/or house placements. Observe and absorb over time. It can be difficult at times to communicate clearly with words what a particular rising sign looks and acts like, but some astrologers like me do their very best and continue to refine ways of portraying clearly these living archetypes.

If you want to have a usable chart that gives you the most information about your own uniquely timed windows of opportunity, then examine carefully the Ascendant by sign and degree. Test it and keep watching it. Watch as planets transit across that area and notice what happens in terms of motivations and events. If Jupiter transiting through the 1st house of your chart is not accompanied by Jovial attitudes, personal growth and renewal of optimism, then you have grounds for doubting the accuracy - not of your birth time, but of your Ascendant. One is not synonymous with the other.

At times some audiences have misunderstood my take on the rising sign (Ascendant sign) and chart rectification to be based on some personality bent towards suspicion. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want only Truth, for myself and others, and with a keen eye for inaccuracy or errors, and led by greater minds that have come before, I offer my perspective and I wish you Clarity, Understanding and the Knowledge of Your True Self.

Blessed Be.

PS-I recommend Astro-Intuitive as an astrologer capable of also helping you to identify your correct Asc.
 

KayBug

Well-known member
This makes me curious. My daughter's birth time is correct, l/l is correct and chart is calculated correctly. Her ascendant is, 29 Scorpio 22' 20".
 

Kannon

Well-known member
This makes me curious. My daughter's birth time is correct, l/l is correct and chart is calculated correctly. Her ascendant is, 29 Scorpio 22' 20".

Most of the time when a birth time indicates a late sign Asc, that sign is the correct Asc, but the correct degree is earlier. However, a Sag rising chart should always be considered in such a case.
Here are descriptions of each sign:
Ascendant Sign Descriptions
 

EJ53

Banned
Re: For what reasons might the Ascendant be incorrect?

Yes....If the birthtime and lattitude/longitude are correct (and the chart is calculated accurately), the Ascendant of the calculated chart might still be wrong?
OK, Kannon...but please explain (or direct me to an explanation of) why that is the case...as I cannot yet grasp the theory behind this conclusion.

Thanks.

EJ
 

Kannon

Well-known member
Re: For what reasons might the Ascendant be incorrect?

OK, Kannon...but please explain (or direct me to an explanation of) why that is the case...as I cannot yet grasp the theory behind this conclusion.

Thanks.

EJ

There is no single positive theory behind it. Its that an astrologer who takes a birth time doesn't take it literally, but notices that a person/client fits the sign adjacent to the one indicated by birth time and adjusts the chart to match by sign, then adjusts the degree to match the timeline of the person's life up to that point. Master astrologer John Willner had secret Ascendant formulas that he used to pinpoint the Asc, but I work without them. He also did work to clearly outline the physical and other traits of the Ascendant signs in his book The Rising Sign Problem.

Some astrologers reject what I'm saying (which is taken from Willner - I'm not sure I'd ever have figured it out myself) simply because a recorded birth time feels so solid, legitimizing something mystical as rooted in 'fact.' The truth of the matter is that even a good theory like the 'first breath' theories have to be tested. Willner essentially put it to the test and found that there is not a consistent interval (of zero or any other figure) between recorded birth times and times used to erect accurate natal horoscopes. The window of clock time in which to find the correct horoscope is from about 4-1/2 hours previous to certified birth time to about 40 minutes of clock time after it. The immediate problem is that this means work, and for the average consulting astrologer out there who is also authoring books with charts based purely on certified birth times does not want to go through all of their clients charts and verify each one. I have even seen one particular famous author who teaches astrology put up a chart on his myspace page that clearly shows the wrong Asc sign when viewed next to his picture. (If you're interested in this example, I'll identify him in a private message with link to pics, etc. It is not my intention to publicly discredit him or his practice). I personally value accuracy of interpretation over money or nicks in my reputation, so I adjust charts as needed. My focus is on the individual and making sure that their chart matches them as closely as possible. That is my responsibility to them.

There are many examples I could give of celebrities, etc, but what it really comes down to is watching your own chart and making the adjustment. About 50-60% of charts have the correct rising sign. Due to a variety of mixed reasons, the other 40-50% of charts have to be adjusted, usually to the sign previous to the one indicated by birth time.

There isn't a positive theory behind it that can be as clear and simple as the 'first breath' theory or theories. There are a number of things I can discuss that go into matters either related or not related to common astrological practice. There are Edgar Cayce readings on this. Cayce referred to common astrological practice as 'astrological survey,' when birth time is taken and a chart is cast without rectification or some type of verification procedure. But this is not all dependent on the Cayce readings. What it comes down to is astrologers paying attention that the charts they use for clients match the person. Some clearly do not. For example, most astrologers think of George W. Bush as Leo rising because of his published birth time. He is clearly not Leo rising. He is a classic example of Cancer rising down to his ovate shaped face. His personality is also reticent, bumbling words when nervous, insular and retreating from spontaneous interviews in the spotlight/media. This is not the behavior of a Leo rising person. Bush moved into the political arena in his father's administration as a leak controller. That is classic Saturnine-Cancer. GW Bush's correct Asc as verified by Willer is 26CAN19 with Saturn 26CAN30 in 1st.

At the very least even astrologers unwilling to depart from 'first breath' astrology should know better than to simple cast charts and start making pronouncements purely on a word of mouth birth time. As we've seen even in this group, this very often creates wrong charts because of memory inaccuracies. A birth document should be presented and the chart verified. In the absence of a certified birth time a full rectification should be done. A brief survey of rectifications by even famous astrologers (including Joan Quigley) shows that most of them are terrible at it.

My point is that YOU own your birth horoscope. It actually exists in True Original form IN THE GLANDS AND CELLS OF YOUR BODY. It is a product of your Intentions for Incarnating, Karma, etc. So be sure your astrologer (or you) get your chart lined up at the Asc so that it accurately reflects your body, personality and accurately times the cycles of your life. Most charts contain misleading information. I'd around 10-30% in most charts is misleading information, including items like Ascendant sign, house placements, aspects to Asc and MC, even Moon sign in some charts.

At the very least astrologers should double check 'cuspy' charts that say Asc 0-2*. I can't tell you how many such charts indicate the wrong sign. Probably around 70% of the time those 0-2* Ascendants are in the wrong sign.

What's the use of having a birth horoscope if it cannot accurately do what is astrology's no.1 feature, which is timing. Its a sophisticated timing mechanism. I'll take and accurate birth horoscope that can time my windows of opportunity to the day over a generic newspaper or column "horoscope" any time.
 

EJ53

Banned
Please do PM me on this (Facebook example).
Thank you for PMing me with the above example...and for pointing me to the further information in John Willner's The Rising Sign Problem, sbastro.com and soul-map.com.

http://www.sbastro.com/faq.htm explains "Spiritual Astrology" as follows :-

...For any given location on the earth's surface there are a number of exact times that the spiritual birth can occur during any one day....Each presents a different astrological chart...prior to the physical birth...(when) the spirit enters the physical plane of existence...On average the spiritual birth is about one hour and forty minutes before the physical birth...(but)...The precise time is a matter of exact calculation. During the physical birth process the soul is nearby and observing...(and) enters the body of the recently born child sometime within the next 24 hours.

From this, my current understanding of the theory is :-

1. At any given location, there are a limited number of times in each day when a Soul can enter the physical plane...Thus, the "available" times for entry depend upon the chosen place of birth...(making the use of exact birthplace co-ordinates as important as using an exact birthtime.)

2. After entering the physical plane, the disembodied Soul observes/oversees the physical birth process and can choose to enter the body anytime within 24 hours of entering the physical plane.

3. Thus, the Soul has no control over the physical time of birth...but can control it's entry to the physical plane and (subsequently) into the body of the child.

4. Hence, if the natal chart is a "map" for the Soul to follow...it makes sense to use the map it has chosen, rather than the one provided by a physical birthtime over which it had no control.

5. To identify that chosen time, we must rectify the chart to arrive at a birthtime that exactly matches progressed/transitting astrological indicators to actual events......and the starting point for that process is to match the physical characteristics of the person to those relating to the possible Ascendant sign.

6. Rectifying the chart is particularly important for "predictive astrology", as small errors in the natal chart can result in large timing errors for the influence of progressions/transits......But in natal chart interpretations, the error in an unrectified chart has to be considerable before it significantly affects the astrological indicators.

7. Most astrologers would agree with you (Kannon) that charts must be rectified before they can be used reliably to make predictions...but my guess is that few would accept the effort involved in doing so is warranted for interpretations of natal charts having known/accurately recorded birthplace and birthtime data.
____________________​
In my opinion, the "spiritual astrology" theory makes sense...(and supports what I was once told by a clairvoyant about the circumstances of my own birth...in which the Soul had to enter the unborn child to keep it alive during birthing complications, rather than at a later time of it's own choosing).​

However, it seems to me that the theory leaves us with three valid birthcharts...the spiritual chart/time of entry to the physical plane (chosen by the Soul)...a "birth-of-the-body" event chart/time (imposed upon the Soul by the physical birthtime)....and a "body-acceptance" chart/time (when the Soul chooses to enter the new-born child).​

EJ​
 
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Kannon

Well-known member
EJ - you've got it pretty well. I'm not an exactist in this, as that is impossible without the incarnation ascendant formulas or the software that uses them. I point people to the physical and personality indicators of the 12 rising signs.

I should modify my statement that there is no theory behind this. Willner or Astro-Intuitive may refer to it as the INCARN theory. It says essentially there is something of a variable clock time gap between incarnation intent that sets the soul's correct horoscope and the physical birth time. Sometimes the gap is virtually nothing.

Here is more original info from the source, Willner himself...

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=235367#post235367
 
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EJ53

Banned
...I should modify my statement that there is no theory behind this. Willner or Astro-Intuitive may refer to it as the INCARN theory. It says essentially there is something of a variable clock time gap between incarnation intent that sets the soul's correct horoscope and the physical birth time. Sometimes the gap is virtually nothing.
Thanks, Kannon...I get the theory/concept now...(which astrology students must decide whether to accept or reject, based upon their own beliefs)...

and agree that natal charts should be rectified before relying upon the timing accuracy of any progressions derived from them...and that comparing the chart ascendant to the physical+personality indicators of the 12 Rising Signs is a valuable first-step in any rectification.

EJ:happy:
 

wilsontc

Well-known member
this was a copy of existing texts, to EJ

EJ,

You said:
This very informative and interesting thread seems to have now disappeared, Kannon...Do you (or anyone else) happen to know why?

This thread was a posting of individual documents that may or may not be still copyright. I deleted the entire thread since it violated our rules about posting copyrighted works or works which could be copyrighted.

Following up on copyright,

Tim
 
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