The Shadow Side of Libra

LaLibra

Well-known member
astrologer50 said:
every sign has positive and negative traits. Without seeing the charts involved how can anyone possibly comment?
If any sign is going to be dupliciitous I would have said the 'mutable' signs, pisces, gemini are prob worst, espec if mercury is in these signs or aspected to Neptune..

Libra can be very charming sociable diplomatic people, but also procrastinating, indecisive and relying on a partner too much at times. Some even think there are only half an apple .........without having that sounding board

Sometimes I feel that I'm only half an apple lol ...first time I heard that saying. Lacking that sounding board, yes yes I feel that I am sometime, I felt more down to earth when I was younger (sidereal sun is Virgo, sidereal moon Taurus).

I bet some heavy Libra individuals seem like they're slowly floating up and away sometime, maybe while you're talking to them. I bet they feel like they are too:rolleyes: Struggling to find something strong to link them to the groud, so maybe they try that through relationships? And so the manipulative side may come about that way.

Talking about shadows is so intriguing because for every solid thing there is a shadow and for every shadow there is a good trait/quality that has just been hidden from the light. Once it comes out to light it can be a positive thing.
 

LaLibra

Well-known member
archergirl said:
Now, now, ladies.

AM, I'm not sure that the intent was to actually slag Aries people off, but to accentuate the positive aspects of Libra. That's the way I read it, at least.:)

If Lillly is 'guilty' of anything, it might be a stereotypical perception of fire signs as uncouth and up for brawling at any given opportunity. That certainly can be a part of OUR shadow sides, but as this discussion on Libra shows, Libra-influenced folk aren't always sweetness and light; they have their Dark Side too. My brother-in-law has Libra rising. He was (and still is, to a certain extent) spectacularly good looking when he was younger; a Libra ascendant trait. He's also the slickest con-man in town; one look from those big baby blues and his mother forks out the last of her life savings for him to spend on an overseas trip.

Let's, if we can, try to avoid polarizations on one sign or another and examine the middle ground, where most of us sit anyhow.

AG:)

Sadly, it's somewhat easy to con and manipulate people, once you know what's important to them and what their weaknesses are:( But when you know these things you can also be a very understanding listener and friend offering comfort and advice...or you can go the shadow route and use people. I think the incliniation to use one's powers for good or evil goes back to upbringing, beliefs/ethics and a person's experience and background.
 

starlink

Well-known member
I want to know what people experience as a shadow trait of a sign that is considered fair, just and balanced.
I have been away yesterday and see that lots has happened in this thread. So, "to come back to astrology" as we want it to, I can tell you the following.
One of my best girlfriends has the following "dark" side. She is jealous of other people's beauty and money and she repeatedly talks behind their backs. I find this a great pity because she is very beautiful herself and has more than enough money. Her money house is ruled by her Moon in Aries in the 11th (friends) and opposes her Sun/Neptune/Mars conjunction in Libra in the 5th. (Neptune in Virgo 29°). She has Jupiter in the 2nd sextile Venus, so there you see, no problem with money, but Moon opposing the 5th house Stellium shows how she can spend it, mainly on beautifying her home (ruled by the Sun). She is very creative and has a great sense of how to make things look just gorgeous.

So, even though she seems indeed to be very kind to everyone, I know she has this less flattering side to her. And it is so unnecessary, she has it all.
Probably has to do with her Chiron in her 4th house. There must be a lot of subconscious pain there. Rulers of her 8th, both modern and traditional, Uranus and Saturn, in her 12th house and ruler of 12, Venus, squares Saturn, so I think there is some unresolved sentiment there, causing this behaviour.

Basically I think that the dark side of every sign, is shown by the 12th house ,planets therein and the aspects of the ruler. 12th house shows hidden things, even hidden from ourselves. We often dont see our dark side, dont we?
 

tsquare

Well-known member

Jealousy can be one.
At least we know it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lLs2dC9NaE

Sometimes libra can just be plain flakey and lazy.
I say this cause I notice it in myself and I'm not afraid to say it.
I am also not offended at my own observation of how I can, at times, tend to handle the sign.

I have quite the stellium.
Were talking Saturn, Mars, Pluto.
And venus trines to all of those planets from cancer.
so ruller of Libra in trine to all those mad monsters.
I have mars on Spica as well.
A pretty little star in Libra that is supposed to be fortunate.
IF you wnat to get a better idea of some of the nasty stars there, in libra, I have seen discussion sof those on the net...I think I seen on Celeste teals Horary interpretaion page, like how to interpret, she discussed a few togh stars there in libra, sadly, I've seen some of those things in my lfe.
Personally I don't know fully what to make of it.
I don't feel left out.
IT's a tough subject and the greatest minds have gone round the bend on this very subject of fate and free will etc.
I'm not a great mind, I'm far too self critical for that.
My libra stellum sits in the third house.
Lets just say I like to look at both sides.
With sayurn I take my time.
ANd to even say "both sides" is silly, there are more then 2 sides to every tale.
I like the science of it.
Am not impulsive...for the most.
Maybe in love...but not really.
I take my time, but **** it up often enough.
haha
Ah well, Everybody plays the fool sometime, wah wah wah wah..
Right?

Libra artists that may have a touch of various dark sides?

Tom Petty
Sting
And of Course
John Lennon
I bet some heavy Libra individuals seem like they're slowly floating up and away sometime, maybe while you're talking to them. I bet they feel like they are too:rolleyes: Struggling to find something strong to link them to the groud, so maybe they try that through relationships? And so the manipulative side may come about that way.
Not so much for me...sometimes though...but when I do go off into all the differnet sides of a thing, I genrally try NOT to hold on, so I can cover as many aspects, povs, till, haha, someone goes insane.
Sorry, the other sides exist, no matter how much it shakes individal reality.(not saying this dirrectly to the poster I have responded to)
I have saturn in Libra, I believe, and BELIEVE, on e of the reasons for the exaultation in libra is the fact that saturn does act like a grounding influnece.
for as much as a despise saturn at times, I have some love there for the old devil. I take my time, I will use roots if needed, and can.
Mars and pluto thogh.....sometimes I haye to watch out.
Once you start me up I may never stop.

I have seen Jupiter and neptune conj in Libra to bring about a very manipulative person.
But this is an indiviudal case.
and there are other aspects there.
like sun and mercury in gemini trine.
Simply a very creative person with teh gift of gam, and allot of charisma socially...but, big but, they can take it way too far..
I'm more....er...practical.


 

tsquare

Well-known member
Sadly, it's somewhat easy to con and manipulate people, once you know what's important to them and what their weaknesses are:( But when you know these things you can also be a very understanding listener and friend offering comfort and advice...or you can go the shadow route and use people. I think the incliniation to use one's powers for good or evil goes back to upbringing, beliefs/ethics and a person's experience and background. __________________

This is true and it can be hard to watch, or even hear of sometimes.
Take it from a pro.
I can manipulate things very well to my liking.
But I grew up with a man who did this with out caring.....without heart, and as much as I hate that experience, I learned.
Any time I am going to manipulate you, I'll do it with fiction on the package. People don't mind it so much when it is fun, or for entertainment.
I will not attribute all manipulation, or manipulators, to having Libra, or planets there, etc. you get the idea, I see other things as adding to this.
Creating an illusion is a large part of creation, and it can be done in such a way as to librate people...It's not all escapism like they say for the water signs....off topic I know, but I had to say it quick, then move on. You can use other mediums that are quite impossible, and very much show the things in life that people overlook, which is my favorite form of reation...as a way to inform or enlighten people...
Kind of a rounabout way of creating illusion to break it down and apart, but it works, and I enjoy it at times. By using a medium that is not quite as "real" you can get people to look at something in an entierly different way, and even laugh, when before, they would and could not, for they were so introverted into the reality. On a lower level this could be seen as insanity, haha, but on a higher level, from a higher tone, things are less serious, and amusement is found, and what is often decifered as being so serious, becomes quite comical. People are very into suffering though these days....

I don't have the heart for secret agent work either, my belly would grow sour with it. I don't like to hurt people, or use them, probably cause i had it happen to me so many times when I could do nothing about it, was too young to fight it in a proper way. I know the game well, i really do, I grew up with some of the best, watching the best, and I can, do, just about anything, sometimes, but I see playing a con as a waste of my time...and I get tired of seeing people I care about being taken advantage of.

I do think it would be fun to create charectors and personas, and that is highly manipulative but in art, as in acting, etc. that's the name of the game. Creating people that arn't you and wearing them convincingly.
Some may say all lies are bad, well, there goes your story telling, and story telling is a usefull part of the human eperience and does not have to be done just to ***** people over.
It may even be that the most truthful are the greatest liars of all, haha.
What if it really is all a grand illusion, some dream we all dreamed so long ago....is that dream the truth, ultimate? Or ust another creation.
Science is usefull here...and it serves a task and purpose, and I love science, I really do, but I won't bite onto a Darwin and creationism debate cause I see both as correct in differnet ways.

That is another libra aspect I have.
Pick a side they say.
good luck dude.
Not if it's a haft truth, ******** thing to where I have to combat another to MAKE THE OTHER SIDE WRONG AS THE TOTAL, OR ALT LEAST PARTIAL OBJECTIVE.
Right and wrong are just there, they are self definable when you just look, make oservations.
Having to belong to just one, ot the other, of the two combating think pools, does not in an y way pelase, me, I look to transend that towards and for the purpose of finding better truths, and even at times, the ultimate of all truths. Yes, I want to know what got thinks, not liteally, cause god tinking can be overrated when I see "him' as being able to do so much beyond just thnking.

I know things can be created and destroyed...
I know things can be created and uncreated...
Uncreated takes longer so insn't alwalys employed and people do like to "move on" by crushing theirself and identity...and walking off.


I am saying this to show that libra can decide, but in the examle above I show how I do not like being forced to, cause, I see neither side as totally wrong and incorect...I see them as bothi having parts of the truth...when asked to join one to apose another(which is really just the first group oposing itself, haha :) ) I kinda just saay no...
Things can get messy witht that sometimes...They can try to force you when you need more time..more time to look things over.
I may take my time, but I can do get it right by doing so instead of just meandering into teh unknown on a totality of chance...

tired and blue today,
bummed out libra with a sick belly, and a frazzled nervous mind,
really the first in a while...not not the first in forever...
anything really dumb above, let me know, I enjoy that, but I ask for time to respond.
 

starlink

Well-known member
I will not attribute all manipulation, or manipulators, to having Libra, or planets there, etc. you get the idea, I see other things as adding to this.
Ah well, here it is. We can actually never say:"the dark side of Libra is this or that". Each Libra is different and unique and each has his or her backpack of psychological issues which probably create these shadow sides.
In my particular example of that girlfriend it was jealousy.Actually not really jealousy, but more envy. But this does not show "a shadow side of a usually nice and pleasant Libra". There will be loads of Libras without these issues and who are never envious of other people.

Like I always insist, please DO look at the whole chart of that Libra. Just like we can never say that everyone with a Mars-Uranus opposition is aggressive, we can also not say "the shadow side of a Libra is this or that". It all depends on the whole chart.
 

Hybrid_soul

Active member
I get along great with gemini's and aquarius's to me i think Libra for me is more of a love partnership. and everything in my chart points to the 7th house of Partners. I know that some libra's are more hot headed than other's gee maybe there worst than Aries haha. especially if they have there ascendant is in aries.
 

natasa812

Well-known member
The dark side of Sagittarius (ME):

1. I did not read this thread from the begining (not even in the middle) - because it takes time and I am superficial
2. I don`t know what it is all bout - I just saw a title (a part of it) and some people talking and I am happy for participating...
2. If we are talking about Libra - I don`t know any Libra...
3. But not only that I am participating, but I am telling you that I don`t know any Libra...

Bluntly, Sagittariously yours (and since Sun is shining and life IS beautifull, I see no dark side? :) ...)
 

natasa812

Well-known member
Once, one member suggested to write not a ``Optimistic interpretation of a natal`` like I did but Saturn interpretation of a natal (for the Astrological Humor section) - and the truth is that I was trying and trying and trying to give any negative - funny interpretation and I just couldn`t!
Strange.


And talking about dark side, just waint until Cancer and Virgo members read those ``deleted posts`` and start talking about ``strict`` rules or, even worst, ``feelings`` - since, as I wrote on another post, we have 2-3 new visitors on this Forum every week and the first thing ``our gests`` see is ``post deleted by moderator``, ``non astrological comment`` , ``off topic content`` and similar...

I will not be able to listen about how do ``our gest`` FEEL about this, or THINK about this, or how STRICT Forum rules are...

Talking about Cancers ``mood`` and since I (Sagittariously superficially had ENOUGH of it), I am wondering (Sagittariously flirtivly) what is a charismatic Scorpio doing at the moment since he is always in the mood... and spring is here, Sun is of course shining, time to fall in love :)

MAYBE THE SAGITTARIAN DARK SIDE IS THAT OUR ``SIDE`` IS TOO ``LIGHTLY`` BRIGHT THAT IT IS ``LIGHT``...

Oh, and a (blunt) confession to make: I also had today deleted swear by moderator but I was describing what happened to me in the street and those were words from that bad person that attacked me and I wrote **** instead of letters...
And I know that we should be careful and I do take care when I write in here but I had to describe what happened exactly (now I sound too Virgo)...
 
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tsquare

Well-known member
MAYBE THE SAGITTARIAN DARK SIDE IS THAT OUR ``SIDE`` IS TOO ``LIGHTLY`` BRIGHT THAT IT IS ``LIGHT``...

That, and you could add, they can blindly walk into things at a level of NOT KNOW.
They can make decission witout evaluating consequences, or facts, and they can be very lawless. They can make decissions without all the information.
This can make for good leaders into the unknown...
Great for a soldier.
I actually love this about sag, but you can see how it could be considered a negative trait in some cases, not thinking things through, etc, the fact that they arn't so
serious about things sometimes.
But man can they be lucky.
Here is one guy that was lucky for a really extended period of time as a soldier.
very intersting story here, and his luck eventually did run out.
I think he is a tripple sag...or something like that..he has allot in sagitarious.
Try looking at George Custers Chart.

Here is Wiki on him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Armstrong_Custer
With hsi birthday..
His chart is out there somewhere.

Back to libra..


and I just read my posts,
I should sleep before i post cause they are a disater area.
I have no idea how anyone understood anything I was saying.
you are all very gifted.












something.
 

natasa812

Well-known member
Thank you and we should go back to Libra...!

I don`t know if I can see anything dark in enyone, for me, Libra represents something related to justice, rightful solution and balance.
I don`t know any Libra but the sign is a ``symbol`` for the mentioned above...

All signs are beautiful and unique...
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
We can actually never say:"the dark side of Libra is this or that".
And, if it's ok, I'd just like to say that when we make mention of the bit in quotation marks, we (should) mean the *zodiac sign* and NOT the individual. VERY important to distinguish there. To an individual belongs the individual's 'individual' chart. Libra/Aqua/Sag are signs common to all and present in all our charts -is it not so?. They are part of all our personalities. And, an individual's complex personality is more than simply just his Sun or Moon. We really should be able to discuss the signs just as freely as we discuss the planets or houses. One cannot always look at a natal chart, neither is that often the intention or aim. On the contrary, sometimes we are not looking to 'get personal' as in talk about a particular native, rather just the sign (with its lights and darks) that belongs to millions. I do understand though, Starlink the message you were trying to convey, and agree that before talking about an Aquari-an or a Sagittari-an (person).., it is necessary to look at that Aquari-an's natal chart.

The shadow side of being a Sagittarius is that we like to drink too much beer and then get beer-bellies.
AG, good one. Have got Sag on my house of leisure and pleasure;). As to the 'shadow' sideS of Aquarius, well, there are so many that it will need a whole thread to roll them out, so I'd better not even get started with that 'eccentricity' here.:p

:DAQ7
 
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starlink

Well-known member
Best thing of course is to talk about our own shadow side. AG's is drinking beer, Aquarius7000 is drowning in eccentricity and my shadow sides are many as well, ranging from being a chocolaholic in order to dull my craving, oh well, you know..... (Venus in my 5th, ruler of my Sun) to being hopelessly bossy at times with my partner, poor soul.(Pluto, ruler of my Asc. trine Venus, ruler of my 7th house. Yes, that poor Venus is really weak in Aries, so I guess my shadow sides are all to be found in my 5th house.
 

gaer

Well-known member
starlink said:
Best thing of course is to talk about our own shadow side. AG's is drinking beer, Aquarius7000 is drowning in eccentricity and my shadow sides are many as well, ranging from being a chocolaholic in order to dull my craving, oh well, you know..... (Venus in my 5th, ruler of my Sun) to being hopelessly bossy at times with my partner, poor soul.(Pluto, ruler of my Asc. trine Venus, ruler of my 7th house. Yes, that poor Venus is really weak in Aries, so I guess my shadow sides are all to be found in my 5th house.
I think sharing our own experiences is the best thing, Starlink. When we do this, we can explain how the strengths and weakness of signs play out in ourselves. The difficulty is that it takes a good bit of life-experience and honesty!

I do see many of the traits mentioned as both negatives and positives for both Scorpio and Libra in myself, and with Sun/Moon in Libra, Mercury and Mars in Scorpio, I do indentify strongly with these two signs.

In addition, as you mentioned, we also want to look to "hidden" places in the chart as well, and I have three planets in the 12th.

I think talking about the potential weaknesses of a sign actually should help us avoid them by making us more aware. :)
 

archergirl

Well-known member
Actually, I don't drink much beer. I was just joking about the 'typical Sagittarius stereotype': that we are all party animals. Or bookish bores. I'm probably closer to the latter...although after a few glasses of red wine I can be mighty merry!:D

But I think 'shadow sides' maybe arise more obviously from other places in the chart besides simply one's Sun Sign and its shadow. I would say my 'dark side' is more likely manifested in Pluto square my Sun (orb 1 degree), so, dark power-hunger, troubles with authority and a cunning, ruthless streak. Ain't nuthin' to do with being a Sadge.

AG:)
 

natasa812

Well-known member
Dear Moderators and senior members!
You are taking this conversation on a higher lever and not only Sun sign / dark side.

Well, I`ll participate (or try at least!)... with new ``advanced`` elements...

(such a nice way to make us new members learn something more...)

Here it is:

Moon Neptune square - I just feel it, I am stubborn and I ``request`` things and ``behaivours`` from people...
With Venus in Capricorn, this is more understandable...
Any help from Mercury? ... squares Mars and makes me (copy - paste from Astrology weekly):

You are strongly opinionated, and get angry when your views are not accepted. People may avoid getting into a conversation with you because you will start an argument at the slightest provocation. You are not a good listener if the opinions being expressed are different from yours. You find fault with just about everything, and no situation is too insignficant to escape your notice. Your rudeness to others is tactless and abusive, and you don't even realize it. You should learn to be silent when you are not fully informed on a subject, or you risk being ridiculed by those who know what they're talking about.

If you think that maybe my AC is ``saving`` me (or others) from this, NO, AC is in Pisces - my own imaginary world... With Moon trine Venus and with Jupiter in conj. with Sun - maybe I am even over exalted and see myself in a positive and sensitive light... Or maybe I should leave the ``maybe`` word from this sentence...

Uh. I wrote it.
 

Chimerical

Active member
stardust7 said:
Libras are not the only duplicitous sign, I want to know what people experience as a shadow trait of a sign that is considered fair, just and balanced.

The aspects I mentioned are forefront; Sun, Rising and to add the third, Moon. I experience Moon in Libras to be very non-jealous types, for instance; that seems to be a Positive Libra trait.

It's applicable to ask what others have experienced as a possible negative characteristic of a strong Libra placement. It doesn't take a singular chart to determine for instance that a strong Scorpio is thought to be more jealous than the average person. For a good example, there is a thread in the psych section about Scorpio and the psychology of revenge. Any sign can seek revenge, but it is more associated with a Scorpio than most other signs. No single charts are brought into question, I was just using observations of mine. (in fact Scorp's tend to get a bad rap!)

It's possible to target some traits down to a single sign, isn't it? Aquarians are thought to be generally humanitarian. Our "shadow side" is said to be iconoclastic, inflexible and controlling. I heard Stalin was a big Aquarian but we didn't really experience his more positive traits. Being "humanitarian" in his case equated to wanting to control large groups of people; that would be a negative expression of that characteristic.
Growing up I knew 2 libras (i female the other was male, but gay) both of them were friends OF friends of mine..both of these libras hated me ..without even getting to know me ..it hurt my feelings terribly and I never understood what the problem was..I always tried to be nice ..but they just didn't want me around ..I was told by my friends that both these people were very jealous of me (even though there was no reason to be) so I came to understand the shadow side of libras.. I have never had any libra friends ...(because they always hate me). I still don't know what the problem is. As an adult I experienced the same thing with a coworker who just happened to hate me from the very first day I started..I tried being nice and non threatening..didn't work of course..I would catch her staring hatefully at me all the time..she quickly changed departments! I'm guessing to get away from me!! Also I am fairly quite and friendly in the work place..so what did I do?? again another Libra hates me..I cannot figure it out!
 

katydid

Staff member
What do you have in Libra, if anything?
Or do you have a lot of other cardinal placements, that square them?

I used to have 'problems' with Aquarians not liking me when I was younger.
I finally realized that my exact T-square to Pluto conjunct the south node in Leo in the 4th MIIGHT POSSIBLY rub them the wrong way. This one aquarian girl who dated my older brother, was SURE that I was judging her, but the truth was I could have cared less about her.

So MAYBE there is something in your chart sending the Librans mixed signals somehow?:eek:




Chimerical said:
Growing up I knew 2 libras (i female the other was male, but gay) both of them were friends OF friends of mine..both of these libras hated me ..without even getting to know me ..it hurt my feelings terribly and I never understood what the problem was..I always tried to be nice ..but they just didn't want me around ..I was told by my friends that both these people were very jealous of me (even though there was no reason to be) so I came to understand the shadow side of libras.. I have never had any libra friends ...(because they always hate me). I still don't know what the problem is. As an adult I experienced the same thing with a coworker who just happened to hate me from the very first day I started..I tried being nice and non threatening..didn't work of course..I would catch her staring hatefully at me all the time..she quickly changed departments! I'm guessing to get away from me!! Also I am fairly quite and friendly in the work place..so what did I do?? again another Libra hates me..I cannot figure it out!
 

gaer

Well-known member
archergirl said:
But I think 'shadow sides' maybe arise more obviously from other places in the chart besides simply one's Sun Sign and its shadow. I would say my 'dark side' is more likely manifested in Pluto square my Sun (orb 1 degree), so, dark power-hunger, troubles with authority and a cunning, ruthless streak. Ain't nuthin' to do with being a Sadge.
That's a great point. I hope other people will pay attention to this. :)

I've spent most of my life trying to master a really quick temper. When I was younger, I could never hold my tongue when I got mad, and when I was really young, I was just as likely to swing with my fists as to win verbally.

I don't think that had anything to do with "being a Libra". ;)

g
 
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