The psychology of Pluto square Sun

*emma*

Banned
@ Emma
I don't know how to explain. It is so frustrating. I have always a feeling that someone would like to abuse of me. I mean it psycologically. It is a strange feeling and you don't have it (as I understood, you don't own the square in your chart). We just can't let someone to control us...it is like an obsession, we fear it. Our individuality is so important. Better lonely than...

I actually thought, that the square can bring low self esteem as a bed side of Pluto planet and this brings a person to fight it's own ghosts. Probably we reflect outside, towards the others, our inner world. As you said, we are our own enemies, not the others, but we feel it with distorction. Pluto means underworld: besty instincts, hate, obsessions, power, deep crises. But also insoddisfaction and a need to change, to destroy ourselves to rebild from 0. Nothing is certain with Pluto. The Sun is so ful of itself and so certain, where Pluto always put a lot of question-marks, doubts about averything.

i see sun pluto pluto aspects or transits as gifts to move on, learn a thing lr two, pluto transits give you lots of time to figure them out x also u see pluto transits and experiences leave u with an option to say bugger off, saturn transits dont
eta hecate no one has the right to abuse you but u have the power to stop them doing so, use the power, cut them off
 
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Hekate

Well-known member
@ Blackempress

People are mostly 'common' and I have an impression that a different way of thinking, to dare something, scares them or simply irritates them. They always want to show how 'normal' are they and how wrong are you, but in all this I can find just emptiness and sometimes also envies. Boring.

@ Emma

Right to abuse or not, it seems sometimes some people don't respect honestess. If you open your heart too much, they abuse it. I can speak mostly in friendship, but also in love affairs. I find it so weak this way of doing. I could never come over somebody who is sincere with me...it is such a loosing way of behaving. This people are such a loosers in my eyes. But when you show your real strong nature and tell them you are not in agree with something, they retrocede like if they are afraid, disappear, making you think there is something wrong with you...I have this strong impression they do it deliberately, trying to humiliate you even more. I just can broke up with this cowards.

Maybe I am too drastic, but at least I can stand on my believes without regret. Actually, I don't like very much compromises.
 

TransformingSelf

Well-known member
Hello Hekate,

Thank you for sharing your experience on the thread, and thank you to Lightrider for introducing Hekate to us. You all here share stellar astrological wisdoms. This is exactly what we need during our most difficult moments: steadfast support and mutual compassion for each other.
*Emma* and Blackempress have given you wonderful insight. From what I've gathered, the conflict with control comes from unresolved psychological insecurities in childhood. There is a lack of trust which begins in the family, usually with parent figures.
I'm getting the feeling that your fear of control is related to obstacles to your autonomy or independence in childhood. It could be that you felt undervalued when it came to be given the confidence to take action on your own. What Pluto does is to dig deep into the past. It brings the past out to light, to help you understand, heal, and rebuild a self that is strong enough to trust in people again.
The conflict comes into play when your Sun, conditioned by that past, acts on reflex to respond to people and situations with this fear of control or lack of trust in them. But in order to find strength, there has to be a combining of Pluto's and the Sun's energies inside of you. Listen to your Sun and be cautious when in relationships, yet slowly by slowly, listen to Pluto and let that caution give way to complete and unfettered trust when you see proof of honesty, dedication, and faith from the other person or persons to you. Then you will feel inner fulfillment.
I can tell you from experience that when you listen to both Pluto and your Sun, you will feel so comfortable, because you have conquered your biggest fear. You have begun to trust your self.
 

theV

Well-known member
sun venus conjunction square moon jupiter pluto conjunction
I have sun venus conjunct cotra parallel pluto
 
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*emma*

Banned
hekate, I don't have natal sun square Pluto, just a very close 30 degree one, semi sextile, and I am in my 50s and still scared of my dad! Cultural reasons, personal reasons not wanting to uoset him, wanting to always be a good daughter and all that rubbish, scared to answer back though if he is angry, not scared to have a normal debating kind convo. Whether that aspect shows it or another I don't know, but issues of control and other Pluto stuff as the psychologists on here say can be so deep rooted and hidden even in a lifetime sometimes you don't get to clear them, my answer is to approach it all with love understanding gentleness and the like, another one that works for me is to not take life too seriously, all this of course if it is normal human interaction and it's awkward sides, not anything to do with real crime or very bad problems over and above normal stuff, this is where I start to waffle a bit so that's it.
 

theV

Well-known member
hekate, I don't have natal sun square Pluto, just a very close 30 degree one, semi sextile, and I am in my 50s and still scared of my dad! Cultural reasons, personal reasons not wanting to uoset him, wanting to always be a good daughter and all that rubbish, scared to answer back though if he is angry, not scared to have a normal debating kind convo. Whether that aspect shows it or another I don't know, but issues of control and other Pluto stuff as the psychologists on here say can be so deep rooted and hidden even in a lifetime sometimes you don't get to clear them, my answer is to approach it all with love understanding gentleness and the like, another one that works for me is to not take life too seriously, all this of course if it is normal human interaction and it's awkward sides, not anything to do with real crime or very bad problems over and above normal stuff, this is where I start to waffle a bit so that's it.

Maybe there is another aspect that indicate such thing
 

actio

Well-known member
What are your thoughts and experiences with the psychological implications of Pluto and the Sun in any transit or aspect form. Feel free to discuss Pluto square Sun or Sun square Pluto. Both of these astrological bodies have effects on the psychological conscious, and I would like to know more about them in depth. Thank you!
Hard natal aspects of Sun/Pluto seem to have some sort of ego-destabilizing effect which can be exerted on the person himself or herself, or projected on others, or both done intermittently.

The square seems to evoke either a phobic or counterphobic response. With such square there is a sense of loss of control (which also implies personal disempowerment) and heightened vulnerability. Because the world keeps constantly evolving, people keep constantly acting and reacting, everything and everyone around is perceived as a potential threat that threatens to destabilize the Pluto-Sun square person, to knock them out of the very fragile sense of balance (of course, since this is a natal aspect, this is merely a person's own projection). The phobic response to this is to hide oneself, to stop interacting with the outside world that is experienced as self-shattering, to conceal oneself by becoming a very private person, or to wear a mask that isn't as threatening if it is destroyed. The counterphobic response is to go out and try to impose your own version of things, to dominate and disempower others before they have a chance of doing this to you. Most Sun-Pluto square people have both phobic and counterphobic situations in their lives, but there is usually a tendency towards either end.

In any case I think this leads to a rather rigid ego structure that attempts to stabilize (freeze) itself and is afraid of change as something that heralds it's disintegration. Any transformative forces are perceived as hostile to one's "I". This of course blocks any self-renewal and self-updating and complicates participation in the give-and-take of life - the person isn't changed by life much.
 

actio

Well-known member
I also liked these description of Sun square Pluto:

  • There can be a form of apprehension concerning actually achieving your purposes; sometimes you make good progress, only to run out of interest at the point when the final effort should be made, almost as if the subversive tendency of Pluto finally erodes your solar purpose. Until the inner friction between your Sun and Pluto is more resolved and integrated under solar control, then you may unconsciously act as your own worst enemy, defeating your own intentions.
  • You prefer stability, and are often resistant to change, especially when you have established a lifestyle which suits you.

More at: http://www.astroknowlogy.com/questi...uare-sun-in-my-natal-birth-chart-significance

[edited quote over 100 words against Forum rules - Moderator]
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
Hard natal aspects of Sun/Pluto seem to have some sort of ego-destabilizing effect which can be exerted on the person himself or herself, or projected on others, or both done intermittently.

The square seems to evoke either a phobic or counterphobic response. With such square there is a sense of loss of control (which also implies personal disempowerment) and heightened vulnerability. Because the world keeps constantly evolving, people keep constantly acting and reacting, everything and everyone around is perceived as a potential threat that threatens to destabilize the Pluto-Sun square person, to knock them out of the very fragile sense of balance (of course, since this is a natal aspect, this is merely a person's own projection). The phobic response to this is to hide oneself, to stop interacting with the outside world that is experienced as self-shattering, to conceal oneself by becoming a very private person, or to wear a mask that isn't as threatening if it is destroyed. The counterphobic response is to go out and try to impose your own version of things, to dominate and disempower others before they have a chance of doing this to you. Most Sun-Pluto square people have both phobic and counterphobic situations in their lives, but there is usually a tendency towards either end.

In any case I think this leads to a rather rigid ego structure that attempts to stabilize (freeze) itself and is afraid of change as something that heralds it's disintegration. Any transformative forces are perceived as hostile to one's "I". This of course blocks any self-renewal and self-updating and complicates participation in the give-and-take of life - the person isn't changed by life much.

Way to revive an old thread!

I have this aspect (along with a square to moon and mercury on top of it) and I relate to everything everyone has said about Sun square Pluto:

1. It started early.
2. Severe mistrust.
3. Willfullness/inability to compromise.
4. Need to dominate others to feel secure.
5. Total transformation at some point by a complete sacrifice of the ego.

As a child, I especially couldn't tolerate being directed to do anything, at least not without feeling like I had some say in it. There was this strong fear that if I wasn't in control my world was ending. I spent a lot of time alone, I was verbally combative and mean to others. I was obsessive and demanding. My mother would always say to me "a tree that does not bend in the wind breaks".

My mother always thought my behavior was because my father "bullied" me when I was a baby. I'm told I used to hide under the bed and cry and scream when I had to go visit him, but I don't remember this. I do remember thinking very highly of him. He is very intelligent and sharp-tongued, and I was always afraid I'd be his target if I didn't measure up.

Pluto is about extremes, and I was totally knocked down and dragged through the mud before I changed. I had all these fears of not being in control even when there was no real threat, but it wasn't until a threat was real that I broke enough to be rebuilt. It was a threat on the life of my mother (moon/pluto square?). I never got hurt, but I couldn't protect her from the attacker myself, being a child. I felt utterly helpless, terrified, enraged and weak and it wasn't for my ego but for my mother. I got help and she was okay in the end, and that's all that matters.

A year after this event, I had none of these issues; I was quiet, withdrawn and considerate of others. I didn't care about being in control so much. I no longer had panic attacks over petty power struggles. My ego wasn't important anymore. There was still a lot of anger to deal with, and recovering, but now I'm pretty well adjusted. It was like I lived someone else's life.

It's a bit weird to understand how Sun square Pluto works after the transformation, since I feel like it's expressed very differently now. :andy:
 

lovelight

Member
Hi...I'm new to this site, this will be my first post besides my "introduction". Well, before I became a member of AC (last night), while checking it out, I saw this topic and since I do have it, couldn't help but come here first to post.

I didn't want to read what others had to say about it...yet. I'll do that later, just wanted to give my take on it without being influenced...not that that would happen any way...caus I do have "Sun sq Pluto". lol

Should say that I have Scorpio rising O degree, so this aspect is very personal to me. Sun is in Taurus 20-58 seventh house, Pluto in Leo 20-49 tenth house. So...trying to keep this story short here...even though this aspect is a tough one, it's probably been the best one, or at least one of them, for me in my spiritual development. By this I mean, I think it's what made me be willing to "give up my life"...to know the Truth! I do believe that if someone is truly "seeking" that this aspect can be a great help.

I have heard before that this aspect means problems with the father...well my dad has been my greatest help & comfort in this life. But...isn't there always a "but" lol....I've found out that he may not have been my bio dad, I think he is...but just saying! It wouldn't matter to me at all either way, he's my dad :love:. I think another aspect in my chart that relates to this question about my father is my having Saturn c Neptune rising in 12th. Also this aspect I do feel relates to my "remembering" being born & right before.

I do feel that because the major aspects of my Sun are all from the "outer" planets (except a wide Sun c Jupiter), this makes for a more interest in un-personal things....wonder if other's notice this in themselves to?

Getting a bit off topic here, sorry. So...I've come to really appreciate this connection to Pluto, it is a real "power house" for sure, and probably could be for better or worse...just depends which direction you're pointed in. So thanks for starting this topic, very enjoyable!
 

kbell

Well-known member
I have this, but I also have pluto square mercury and venus. I am intense lol.
 
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What a great thread, loved reading the different responses!:cool:


I have Sun/Pluto conjunct in the 4H in Scorpio at the bottom of my chart. Saturn and Mercury also reside there in Scorpio w/in 8 deg of each other.

It took me years to realize this but my father was a bully who resented and ignored my presence. I don't think he even realized that he resented me in the home. I felt like the "black sheep" of the family, and though there were no siblings I knew I would have been the outsider if there were. It was subtle but there. In public he was friendly and funny, very sociable. At home he was a manipulative tyrant who constantly criticized and berated. It was like dealing with an extremely large and angry baby, one never knew when he would blow up. No physical abuse, more emotional and psychological. Now that he's older he is having a harder time hiding that part of him and other people see it. It's damaged his relations with relatives.

It took me years of therapy and reading about narcissism to realize that he would never be able to be "father" to me, and that he was broken years ago and it would be no use to try to "please" him (my moon in Libra) because he is perpetually unhappy.

Now that I have matured I see how much wounds from the past (Pluto/Saturn) have crystallized in him (Saturn). The positive side of having him as my father is that I got a love of travel and adventure from him (His Aries sun/Gemini Venus), but I also inherited (4H) my parent's rage and hate (he has a Mars/Saturn/Pluto conj in 3H).

Long story short, what I learned from my childhood is that you can't trust anyone, even your parents, to provide you with the core necessary tools of self-esteem and love to be able to thrive and function in life. That can only come from YOU.
 

jkxx74

Premium Member
Interesting responses everyone - I have natal Sun square Pluto and can relate to just about everything others have posted about it.

Long story short, what I learned from my childhood is that you can't trust anyone, even your parents, to provide you with the core necessary tools of self-esteem and love to be able to thrive and function in life. That can only come from YOU.

Only wanted to add that this scenario often pops up with Sun-Saturn in the natal chart, although Sun in hard aspect to Pluto makes the manifestation that much worse. Liz Greene's "Saturn: a new look at an old devil" goes into quite a bit of detail on these aspects for anyone interested in further reading on it.
 
Interesting responses everyone - I have natal Sun square Pluto and can relate to just about everything others have posted about it.



Only wanted to add that this scenario often pops up with Sun-Saturn in the natal chart, although Sun in hard aspect to Pluto makes the manifestation that much worse. Liz Greene's "Saturn: a new look at an old devil" goes into quite a bit of detail on these aspects for anyone interested in further reading on it.

Heard of the book, never got to read it. I'll have to check it out. I always assumed it was Pluto since it was 1 deg away from my sun, but Saturn makes sense. I was raised by my grandparents for part of my childhood, I've read that's due to Saturn as well.

Thanks for the recommend. :cool:
 
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