'The King of Parts': The Part of Hyleg


Well-known member
The Part of Hyleg is described by author Robert Zoller in his book, "The Arabic Parts In Astrology", in Part II of his book, "The Doctrine of the Parts", in Chapter 4, "Bonatti's Treatise On the Parts", Section 4, "On The Parts Of The First house - That Is, The Ascendant - And On Their Extraction And Signification, on page 94 as follows: "We have discussed the first, second, and third parts of the first house. It remains for us to dicuss the fourth part, which is called the part of the hyleg or pars hyleg. The ancients did not care to say much regarding this part because it is so involved with other things. But none of them are able to exist without it. But this part is able to exist without them. It is to these things as matter is to form.The ancients would have been able to set forth the doctrine on this if they had so desired, but they set it aside for the reason stated above. This part is the root of the others and (here Zoller gives the formula for deriving the part from a natal chart but in a very archaic manner of speach which I will pass on posting here as it is such a stilted and confusing manner of speech that I believe it will be lost on most of the members here. It is found by the formula, Asc. + Natal Moon - the New or Full Moon, whichever was closest in time prior to the birth.) And this part is called the radix vitae (root of life) because it comprehends entirely the whole being of the native or querant or even the revolution, and if it is well disposed, it signifies universally the good "being" of the native and of other matters. However, if it is evilly disposed, it signifies the contrary of the aforesaid."

What I wrote in Italics, in the last two sentences above, I have little to no faith of belief in but I included it for those of you that would prefer the text remain intact for integrity's sake.
Zoller included a couple of footnotes asking the reader to compare what He had written to the Part of Fortune but that is because, in my opinion, Zoller didn't have a clue himself of what the Part of Hyleg represents as to its influence and or effects. I also think that the "ancients" he referred to are no more "ancient" than the astrologers of the "Dark" and "Middle" ages and as to why "the ancients did not care to say anything much regarding this part" I doubt that it was "because it was involved with other things", but rather because for the only reason that they didn't know how it was involved with other things, nor did they really know why.

In Part I "Background", Chapter I, titled, "How The Parts Were Lost", Zoller wrote that the doctrine of the so-called Arabic Parts (and He never capitalizes the word Part, or Hyleg, while I believe they should properly be) is "of considerable antiquity" but that the oldest known surviving record of them is Ptolemy's second century text, "Tetrabiblos" and that in that text He referred to the Part of Fortune as being one of the five hylegical places but also calls Ptolemy "a recorder of astrological method rather than innovator" (Innovator? It was all known of in the Golden Age of humankind and there is nothing one can be a "innovator" of)
It has no title of effect other than being the "Hyleg".

As all Parts are symbolically active the Part of Hyleg is too, but it being involved with all the others "as matter is to form" can only be identified as to what matter it is made of through the Sabian Symbol found for the Sign and degree it is located in.
That is why no one could any longer explain it, define it or even apply it to any useful purpose either for that matter, not since the knowledge of the 360 degree symbols/precepts were lost to the past, forgotten in every living mind, until astrologer Marc Edmond Jones and a clairvoyant, with a soul and conscience so crystalline as that of Elsie Wheeler, spent an afternoon in Balboa Park, San Diego in 1926 and using Ms. Elsie's wonderful gift they re-ascertained them all. The "effect of the Part of Hyleg from each natal chart is different from 359 out of 360 others and that is determined by the Sabian Symbol found for the degree of the Sign it is found to reside in.

I was suspect of the lore, that has been handed down over the centuries, stating that "one projects from either the New or Full Moon that was closest prior to birth", in that it sounds very familiar to the exceptions to the formulae to derive many of the Parts that hinge on whether the birth was at day or night and not one have I found to date to be as such. That is to say all that have been repeatedly tested to to such a number of trials that I am convinced without any doubt that diurnal (day) is the only formulae to utilize.

The late, twentieth century, master astrologer, authoritarian and definitive word on the Sabian Symbols, the incomparable Dane Rudhyar wrote quite a bit on the cycles of the New Moons and most pointedly called attention to the event of the New Moon as being the inception of a new cycle within life. That first ephemeral moment when the Moon moves on from the conjunction with the Sun being as like the very first spark of awareness of being as light is reflected upon its surface just as if it were a newly born babe receiving the first light of consciousness from the divine source. From there to the Full Moon being an "involutionary" phase whereas what is within that consciousness is incorporated into matter and then from the Full Moon through the waning phase of the Moon that which was created in the involution then goes through a "devolutionary" phase and is dissolved and all awaits the next New Moon event when the process repeats ad infinitum.

Rudhyar did emphasize that the Full Moon offers the opportunity to be as like a stepping stone to a higher level of being, as like a springboard in which that which is fully realized at the end of the involutionary cycle can then become, instead of dissolution into a devolutionary phase, the beginning of a "evolutionary" phase utilizing what was merged into and molded with matter for the purpose of evolving spiritually higher which eventually leads to "moksha", i.e. liberation, from this realm of gross materiality.
Having learned, observed and studied this for some time that when I learned of this Astrological Part called the Pars Hyleg, or Part of Hyleg, I was of the opinion that one should only use the New Moon prior to birth in the formula to derive this Part... but I was wrong... as I will now give example to demonstrate and delineate upon.

As like I pointed out in the thread on the Part of Astrology and Part of Omens& Signs thread, I usually rely on the chart I am convinced is that of the Archetype for our current age, Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth but instead I had to rely on my own natal chart to provide me with the answer for this question.

Now to give all credit where it is due, member Phoenix Venus was fully engaged in this study with me and also found that it was my own chart and and shared observations that provided us with an answer. I'm going to be completely honest here in that neither of us is 100% sure that this is the only solution but we both agree on it point by point to our own present satisfaction. I at least know that I will be rather dismayed if it should eventually prove to be otherwise and Phoenix Venus may just make that same statement. She will undoubtedly be chiming in here with her own observations and conclusions and will speak for herself.

Many of you members know me well enough by now to know that I am convinced I was born into this particular incarnation as in service to the Prince of Peace and our divine Host to bring dissolution to much of the darkness that has obfuscated this divine science of Astrology and to bring to light whom Yeshu'a actually was/is rather than who any of the current 30,000 to 40,000 authorities of the various sects of, alleged, Christianity currently unequivocally claim Him to be. I am convinced that Phoenix Venus is also one whom chose to serve in this capacity in her present incarnation and what I am about to demonstrate, to reveal, will show you just what it is like when one is involved with something of divine concern and what can be taken to assure oneself of their involvement...or better said...of their NEEDED involvement, if they need to be made aware and convinced, that is.
It is truly awesome...awesome and both humbling at the same time. Many are called but few are chosen and do not feel to be slighted or disillusioned of heart if you find no such similarities in your own natal charts through the course of your lifetime but rather let this which I am about to share be that which confirms your belief and faith that God has not forsaken humankind and is ever doing what is needed, when it is needed to bring all our souls back home. This is how it works at another level and should convince all that Astrology, when properly applied and understood, is for real...with a capital "R".

I was born May 6, 1953 at 7:40:44 p.m. pdst in Glendale, (Los Angeles County) California, my natal Ascendant is 17* :scorpio: 07' 04", my natal Moon is 24* :aquarius: 02' 58". The event closest to prior the time of my birth was the Full Moon which occurred on April 28 at 9:20:24 p.m pdst and was at 08* :scorpio: 33' 18" thus using the formula for the Part of Hyleg I gave above that calculates to be 02* :pisces: 36' 44".

Using the prenatal New Moon which occurred on April 13, 1953 at 12:08:49 p.m. pdst and which was at 23* :aries: 35' 27" (which coincidentally is conj. my natal Part of Tragedy & Fatality)the formula produces 17* :virgo: 34' 35" ( which coincidentally is conjunct the USA's natal Part of Soul/Spirit {the "Zero Hour" chart, i.e. 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania} at 17* :virgo: 18' 24").

To be thorough and include the concluding postnatal New Moon, which occured on May 12, 1953 at 10:05:39 p.m. pdst which was at 22* :taurus: 08' 21", the formula produces 19* :leo: 01' 41".

Here are the tree Sabian Symbols for those three results, in the same order.
From Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala", Pisces 03*.


The power to preserve records of their achievements which is inherent in fully matured cultures.

When a vast group of men succeed in building a culture with strong institutions which express themselves in significant symbols and works of art or literature, such an effort of many generations is rarely lost altogether. In one form or another, records of this culture endure or are mysteriously preserved, simply because they reveal the place and function of this particular culture in the long process of unfoldment of the potentialities inherent in archetypal MAN. It is such a concept that has been mythified and popularized in the religious idea of the resurrection of the dead on the Last Day. The symbol of petrified wood in the Arizona desert, however, tells us that the actual preservation of the records is never perfect or total. Only fragments remain, significant enough to reveal the essential archetypal form.

This third symbol of the sixty-seventh five-fold sequence brings the promise of social immortality — i.e. the preservation of the enduring (because archetypally meaningful) factors in whatever man attempts within his culture. A symbol of

Now the Sabian Symbol for the prenatal New Moon used in the Part of Hyleg formula, the 18* of Virgo ( and that of the Part of Soul/Spirit for the USA's natal chart): [ibid.]


The ability to contact deeper recesses of the unconscious psyche and sensitiveness to psychic intimations and omens.

The ouija board is to be considered here a modern device similar to many ancient instruments used for divination and prophecy. Certain states of threshold consciousness are stimulated by such a use, and what the experience produces may vary greatly in quality and in origin. The release of unconscious material has lost the explosive force pictorialized in the preceding symbol, yet at this stage there is still no conscious and willful control over what reaches the ego-consciousness.

This is the third stage of the thirty-fourth sequence of symbolic phases in the life process. It is at best a stage of transition which stresses a passive openness to the unknown. The glamour of it may subtly pervert the mind of the aspirant; but in some cases, this can be the first manifestation of
INNER GUIDANCE. The difficulty is to correctly evaluate what or who does the guiding."

Thus faced with these two symbols, I at first concluded the following.
The Ouija Board is something I can recall from my earliest childhood days. My parents had one and they enjoyed experimenting with it with our first neighbors where we rented a bungalow from them, behind their own house on Romaine Street in Hollywood, from 1953 to 1956. The Ouija Board stayed with us throughout the years and two more residences in Los Angeles and was in the home here in Orangevale that my parents bought for their retirement years up until the day my mother passed away in January of 2011. I participated in using it, with my parents and sometimes my siblings. I became aware of paranormal, or metaphysical abilities that I have when I was quite young. I followed a prescribed procedure I read in a copy of Fate magazine when i was but 8 years old to successfully produce "Dream Divination" by pre-programming myself to dream of the highest paying winning race horse at a race track in L.A. the following day which much to my fathers dismay and delight won him about 18 dollars for a two dollar bet that day. The fellows that wrote of the procedure were using it for just that purpose in New York and as my father loved to "play the ponies" when he had a couple of bucks to spare I just had to try it for dear old Dad. I could never do it again though, even though I tried. as I learned that I was allowed to do it once for confirmation of ability but also that it is wrong to use such abilities for personal gain.

I found over the subsequent years that I do have clairvoyant abilities but they are not at my beck and call and I only have this ability through the 'Dream state".

At age 15, in the Summer of 1968, fascinated with the conclusion of a science fiction triology that my brother had read and recommended, in which the protagonist, a teenage boy, saves the world from alien domination by accessing a hidden "doomsday" weapon hidden within granite chambers inside a mountain using a yoga technique to produce a siddha which allowed him to pass through the solid granite walls and save the day, I raved about the fascinating conclusion to my mother whom immediately saw it as the perfect opportunity to introduce me to meditation...which she had been hoping mightily for an opportunity to do so in the belief it would calm my teenage exuberance and excessive angst.

She told me that she learned it from reading her books and articles on Edgar Cayce, whom I had also become a bit fascinated with 9my parents were avid fans and students of the files of the readings given by Edgar over his lifetime and had amassed an impressive small library of material on the subject and many other subjects that had to do with the paranormal and the metaphysical.) The premeditation head and neck exercises, the breathing exercises that one emplys alternatively between nostils and the mouth was all explained to me. Then I was told to sit in the proper position and with eyes closed but inwardly focusing my gaze between my eyebows and was given a one word mantra. The bij, OM. Little did she even have an inkling to suspect for even a moment what I might be capable of doing with what she had just given me

I achieved samyama with the bij that night after about a couple of hours effort. I was born with a Saturn-Neptune conjunction within a half of a degree orb. Saturn in its exalted degree or right next to it, I've never quite found the conclusive answer about that, at 22* :libra: 17' 17' and Neptune at 21* :libra: 52' 45" both retrograde and along with Chiron are the only retrograde planets/influences in my natal chart. I have found that conjunctions within a half of a degree orb to be of a "casimi" like effect ...it's where the bestowed influences and abilities are amplified at what seems like an exponential increase and a Saturn Neptune conjunction is the astro-aspect that bestows an ability to meditate like it is childs play...but I knew nothing about astrology, in theory or as to personal as it was a subject that was considered to be taboo in our family, not because of any religious dogma but rather because Edgar Cayce said that the practice had lost so many of the correct techniques and replaced some with that which was completely erroneous, the knowledge was for the most part lost and that He said it would do a person more harm than good to egage in any modern system of astrology at that time, East or Wast, Oriental or Occidental, that is.
As I was raised in old Quaker ways and practice of worship and belief (Waiting Worship, as it was origianlly practiced and expounded by George Fox in the early 17th century) which is all about "listening to the 'Inner Voice', the voice of the Christ within us it may interest some of you to know that after searching fr a "guru" all through the 1970's and not finding one that told me my place was with him as a disciple, I relied on that "Inner Voice" and it was not unil September of 2003 when I met Suryakant at the transient hotel I was living in and which He had moved into just a few weeks prior when He loaned me his copy of Swami Sivananda's book on Japa Yoga (the Yoga of using mantra..and I hd an encounter, "darshan", with Swami Sivananda in a dream in late '74 or early '75, but did not know it was him until late Summer of 1975 when I saw his picture on the back of Swami Satchitananda's (his disciple) book in a bookstore in L.A. In Swami Sivananda's book on Japa Yoga He mentions a very rare type of Yogi that is given instruction in how to meditate and the mantra of the bij, OM, by someone other than a professed guru and achieves samyama with the bij is then a yogi that has no guru, or even satguru, other than the bij, the actual word/voice of God within him and does not renounce the world but rather remains within the temporal life and works on mastering the chakras in the reverse order. A, kind of, 'Reverse Yogi'. How anymore appropriate that could be for one raised in old Waiting Worship Quaker ways and beliefs is beyond me.

So given all that I was rather sure that it had to be the prenatal New Moon and only the prenatal New Moon that was the correct one to use in the Part of Hyleg formula. The Sabian Symbol for my postnatal New Moon, utilized in the Part of Hyleg formula, is in the 20th degree of Leo: [ibid.}


A return to the glorification of natural energies.

While the first symbol of this five-fold sequence pictured the magnificence of the returning sun after a storm, in this last symbol we see, by implication, man returning to nature and glorifying the sun after the long crisis of 'civilized' living in artificial cities. For many years now, the American Pueblo Indian has been for the weary city dweller and the dried-up intellectual a symbol of this 'return to nature'. After having ruthlessly destroyed him, we come to him as an exemplar of peaceful and harmonious group living.

This fifth symbol of the twenty-eighth sequence brings us the image of a reversal of our socialized activity and opens for us the way to the deepest release of our long-denied root energies. Natural man links himself consciously to the source of all life on earth. And this means
IDENTIFICATION THROUGH WORSHIP — and the sanctification of the creative power."

(my natal Pluto is in the 21st degree of Leo, my M.C. the 25th degree along with my Part of Fortune) and I immediately recognized it representing that which I began employing in 2001 when I was homeless for three months and camping out along the American River a few hundred yards below Folsom Prison and have faithfully emplyed ever since every day that it is at all possible to do so at dawn (and the name Suryakant means "Ray of the Sun". Surya is one of the twelve names of the Sun in ancient Sanskrit and means "The One that induces activity". The entire story of what happened from 2001 on, meeting Suryakant and what all else transpired that lead me to produce a chart for the day that Edgar Cayce said that Jesus/Yeshu'a of Nazareth was born, March 19, 3 A.D. (or C.E. for those that prefer) by the Julian calendar at the time of day I had a strong hunch would be the correct time of day, r.e. Pluto on the Ascendant [ibid.] what the chart reveals and also teaches us as to techniques to be employed and how to read the chart through Sabian Symbolgy is explained in length and detail in my book, "A Template for the Time. The Astrological Birth Chart of Jesus." TGS Publishing, Hidden Mysteries Publishing, Frankston, Texas, copyright 2008. The chart was produced Novemeber 7, 2004 and Pluto was most hurriedly demoted by devious and deceptive means at the following I.A.U. convention in 2005. Also astrodienst has since changed the computer program and is thus purporting now that Pluto was in the following degree (and moving it millions of miles from where it actually was on that day the day of His birth... such a bunch of transparent deliberate subtefuge the likes of which I've never seen performed with such deliberate desperation as to seem like the reckless work of amatuers.)

Although I had been studying astrology since the Summer of 1984 when my most gifted in inherent intelligence and extraordinarily erudite younger brother, Daniel, (whom returned to college in 2001 after only taking a Fall semester in 1973. He earned five degrees by 2007, B.S. Organic Chemistry, B.S. Biology, B.S. Computer Science, B.A. English Literature, Masters in Teaching. I believe that He has at least three or four additional degrees presently) whom had just spent a two year layoff from work reading all he could find on Carl Jung, Freud and Dane Rudhyar and then delving into astrology to see what He could determine was still salvagable of the ancient science then imparted what He had found convincing in a nine month intensive whil living with him in his L.A. apartment while in town to work in the construction trades as I had to leave my long time residence in the Lake Tahoe region due to some personal concerns and to make a better wage in anticipation of my upcoming bethrothal to my fiancee I left waiting in the High Sierras. Suryakant also loaned me his natal chart and horoscope that was written by an astrologer friend of his in Colorado that was well versed and practiced in Rudhyarian technique and the use of the Sabian Symbols as interpreted and presented by Dane. From that chart I increased my understanding and knowledge of how to interpret a natal chart twice fold from all I had gathered in the previous twenty years that it had been since 1984...and was then ready to recognize the chart I produced for that date that Edgar Cayce gave as for the birth of the Prince of Peace... I couldn't have done it without Suryakant's causual offer of "loaning me a few things that I might just find of interest". ..and it all stems from the guruampara in India, to them we most humbly bow in deep reverence and awe...read my book for more about that.
So it was a happenstance minor occupation that just grew out of my continued studies in astrology to cull out true knowledge and techniques, that are most ancient, pertaining to astrology and to preserve it until the Yeshu'a/Jesus birth chart was produced and then it became a consciously applied and most devoted endeavor. The ancient Sun rites I began to employ in 2001, which is also part of the former effort as they too are most ancient, so I was certain that it must be that of the 18th of Virgo that is the root from which all else in my life has been dependent on and that my life has had as it's main cause, it's radix vitae.

But...then the realization struck me... that of learning and developing my metaphysical abilities and that of employing Sun rites are personal in nature...it is for the identifying, obtaining, collecting and preserving what fragments of precious and of inestimable value and worth of ancient knowledge is what I was incarnated in this present lifetime to do. Author Trevor Ravenscroft wrote of the predicted return of the man that had been Parsival (Piercethevale) along with other s that had been Knights in Arthur's court and subsequently Templar Knights in later incarnations in his book, "The Cup of Destiny (a copy of which Suryakant also loaned me in 2007) and Rudolph Steiner predicted would return also, in time for the new millennium.
Ravenscroft wrote of the required requisites that the one whom was Parsival must exhibit and possess...and I am the only person that has come forward on Earth that has "fit that profile" to date.

Suryakant was Sir Galahad, by the way. I'm told by my clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, whom confirmed my identity to me, that there presently are four more beings reincarnated that sat at that "Round Table" some 1200 to 1300 years ago ...Parsival and Galahad were of the second generation, for those of you unfamiliar with the legend. Galahad was said to be the son of Sir Lancelot. Clarisse also told me something that I have not found in any source for information on the Arthurian legend, that Arthur's bones were ground and spread far and wide over the land of Britain back in that time immediately after He died. For what esoteric and or occult purpose that was done I haven't the slightest idea but I have a hunch that someone that needs to know of this will read these words and understand what that entails and what, if anything, they should proceed from with that in mind. ( also another clairvoyant, highly regarded and unknown at the time to Clarisse or her to him, whom was a guru to a couple of the members of the old MSN website that was devoted to astrology and had a forum which was the first internet forum I participated in until it's demise, also told those two members that I had the same three previous lives that Clarisse also had told me at that time. I presently know of two more thanks to Clarisse's effort and that of a couple of Jotish astrologers here at this forum...my most immediate previous life was one of a man in India...which I had always suspected for many, many years as for my natural affection for yoga, Hindu theology, Vedic sciences as for the reason that in 2005 I saw a copy of Mohandas Gandhi's birth chart and noticed an uncanny resemblance to my own and asking for an opinion in the sub forum dedicated to past lives it was told to me that in their opinion that I not only knew Gandhi but that I was a most intimate associate in some way. Clarisse says that I was a wealthy Hindu businessman, "with many gold rings on all my fingers" possessing great wealth put not in a obsessive materialistic way but rather a most concerned human that desired only to make the greatest spiritual use of it to benefit all that it could possibly do so. Clarisse says that what Gandhi exemplified and demonstrated as to making change in the political and sociological realm of society that I took with me from that lifetime will be most sorely be needed to be both remembered and employed in this present one in the near future...and given the present state of the United States of America and how close it is on the brink of destroying itself and all that it has to be respected for in the past I cannot let myself not believe in Her words, although at this time I'm at a loss to see how I may be of any influence on the immediate future...given that to date I seem to have reached but only a very small number of people that seem to have at least some belief in the knowledge I've gleaned from the pst and are demonstrating that belief by utilizing it.)
To which, member, Phoenix Venus is the only one that has genuinely professed full faith in what I have offered ...and that she wisely has confirmed for her own satisfaction is of genuine veracity...she has corrected a few mistakes I have made too...Bless Her sweet soul and own inherent intelligence and integrity.
I believe that one day she will be recognized as an impeccable authority of the highest order, on the recognized , and rightly so, ancient Science of astrology...which will eventually not only be recognized once again as a true science but will be irrefutably be recognized as "The Mother of All Science" ...just as Dane Rudhyar predicted that it would one day be.
I didn't even get into this study until I was some months past my thirty first birthday...Phoenix V. won't even be 28 until late this October...and given another ten, twenty, thirty years to delve into and further her studies... Wow... I only wish I could live so long as to see what all she will accomplish.
I don't anticipate my participating here at this forum much longer... it's been a real test of my endurance and sanity to have gotten this far. My health has suffered greatly because of it and I would like to see a bit of the world before it is my time to leave this mortal coil...God willing.
Other than three weeks in the American Rocky Mountains in 2001, and an occasional tip to the other side of the Nevada Border and a jaunt to Oregon in the 1980's, I haven't been anywhere since my year on the road traveling across the USA and Canada in 1972-3. ...and I thought that I was going to eventually be the well seasoned, man of the world, back then in 1973.

It's just like John Lennon wrote and sang in one of his songs: "Life has a funny way of happening in spite of our plans"

Now, the "Magic" I promised.
some of you know that I do composite charts between myself, and the Yeshu'a/Jesus birth chart. I also have done composite charts between his chart and that of those I consider to be major players in this endeavor that Ravenscroft and Steiner predicted.
I made composites of the event charts of the Moons, prenatal New Moon, Full Moon and postnatal New Moon of my birth time with those I produced for Yeshu'a's time and them made composite Parts of Hyleg and Hylegesque parts using our composite natal chart. Phoenix Venus did the same.

When I emailed her the positions of the event Moons of my birth time. the prenatal New Moon being at 23* :aries: 35' 27", the Full Moon, which was also prenatal in my case and thus the Traditional element to use in the formula for my Part of Hyleg...(Yeshu'a's Full Moon event at the time of his birth was post-natal and thus we use the prenatal New Moon for His Part of Hyleg), my Full Moon event being at 08* :scorpio: 33' 18" ...
...and the postnatal New Moon that occurred six days after my birth at
22* :taurus: 08' 21"

...Phoenix Venus then immediately emailed me back stating in near disbelief...something as like, "You have got to be ******* kidding me", as for the reason that Her composite prenatal New Moon Part of Hyleg with Yeshu'a is at 22* :taurus: 19',

Her composite Full Moon Part of Hyleg with Yeshu'a is at 08* :scorpio: 13'
Her postnatal New Moon Hylegesque like part is 23* :aries: 22' ..and what are the odds of that just happening coincidentally....hmmm?

Can you dig it....!?!?!

Now, that's the way it works on this level...
PLUTO IS A PLANET >>>> you're Darn tootin' it is... A ONE WITH A MOST AUTHORITATIVE AND POWERFUL INFLUENCE... Looks like a Bantam weight BUT punches like a MISSOURI MULE KICKS

p.s.[FONT=".Century Gothic"] Yeshu'a's Part of Hyleg is @ 01* :aries: 50' 32",
his Full Moon Hylegesque like part is @ 17* :virgo: 25' 34"
and his postnatal New Moon Hylegesque like part is @ 03* :pisces: 08' 18"

...you'll notice that He also has one the same as mine and the USA's natal Part of Soul/Spirit (who says that the United States isn't or never was intended to be a "Christian nation" ..and don't forget that the number for the Christ, i.e. 888, when doubled becomes 1776 ...

...and that postnatal New Moon part is nearly identical with my Part of Hyleg at 02* :pisces: 36' 44"
...and given that what astrodienst has been doing to fudge the data from that time for these past four of five years now, it just may be that given the rectification of the corrupted data that it might very well also produce the exact same degree...it isn't too far off as it is.

When I make a composite chart of my prenatal Full Moon event chart which is the traditional and correct chart to derive my Part of Hyleg from with that chart which is the prenatal New Moon event for Yeshu'a and is the traditional and correct chart to use for his Part of Hyleg what is produced for the position of the composite Moon 18* :capricorn: 25' 43"...

... and when used with our composite natal birth chart to produce a traditional Part of Hyleg that Part comes to be @ 17* :virgo: 09' 05"...again, the exact same Sign and degree as the USA's natal Part of Soul/Spirit and thus is the "radix vitae" of all Astrological Parts produced from the composite natal chart made from mine and Yeshu'a's birth charts...

now, are some of you getting the picture of why I'm incarnate in this time in the United States instead of any other country I could have possibly been born in for this endeavor to produce the true birth chart f Jesus of Nazareth, Yeshu'a ben David, set the record straight as to whom He was (FAR MORE THAN MERELY SOME JEWISH PROPHET... HE WAS THE PREDICATED ONE, THE EXPECTED ONE {ESSENE MEANS "EXPECTING"] THE ARCHETYPE FOR THIS CYCLE OF THE 26,664 {apprx} YEARS OF THE CURRENT PROCESSION OF THE "YUGAS" ...THAT WHICH OF THE "MAGI" KNEW OF AND WERE SO DEMONSTRATIVE OF IN THERE "FOLLOWING THE STAR" TO BETHLEHEM [READ "EDGAR CAYCE'S STORY OF JESUS" BY JEFFEREY FURST FOR MORE INFO ON THAT] JUST AS SRI RAMA HAD BEEN INCARNATED ON THIS EARTH APPRX. 198,000 YEARS B.C. (or B.C.E., for those that prefer. Source for that info. the readings given by the late Edgar Cayce, whom also stated that humankind first appeared on this Earth apprx 224,000 years ago. Homo Sapiens, that is. Five "Adams for Five Races of Man that are destined to become one homogenous race. It stands up to all introspection that the more mixed racial type one is, the more advanced one is spiritually...read "Edgar Cayce's Origin and Destiny of Man" (by an author I can't presently remember the name of for more on that...and a great, mind blowing read it is too!) ..and from what I understand there has been an exemplary Archetype born every apprx 26, 640 years since apprx 224,000 years ago...which btw, for those of you that may not have read my few posts on that subject it is also the apprx time of a completion of 108 orbits of Pluto around the Sun, and know that there are 108 beads on a Hindu mala, the model of the process of transformation used to count the repetitions of the mantra one is using for their own "transformation" and the Roman Catholics use a Rosary of 54 beads... (is that a half effort? ...or do they do it twice?)

fyi according to what astrodienst is presently producing the position of the prenatal New Mon prior to Yeshu'a's birth was @ 28* :pisces: 18' 09", the Full Moon the night after his birth was @ 12* :libra: 43' 07", and that of the postnatal New Moon's position was @ 27* :aries: 00' 23" (same Sign and degree as my natal Mercury)

Of some curious note is that my nieces new born son (I have a thread about him in the natal forum) his prenatal New Moon Part of Hyleg is 25* :aries: 26' 11', Full Moon (prenatal and traditional) Part of Hyleg is @ 11* :libra: 01' 51" and for the postnatal Hylegesque like part it is 25* :pisces: 23' 44" ...all three strangely shadowing the location of the three event Moons involved in the Hylegs during the time of Yeshu'a's birth...

which comes to add to my suspicion that his quite unusual birth circumstances and not to mention that his DNA is over 99% all from his mother, my niece, and Clarisse's prediction that He too will grow up to study what astrological legacy I and those that will follow me will leave and will so also expand upon that knowledge and carry it further into the future.
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I tried to edit the above post for typos, clarity, spelling, bad grammar...or the lack of it...but when i went to post it again I got a notification that it was nearly 300 words too long and that I would have to eliminate that many words in order to do so.
Well I thought that I had fewer words than the original post and am at a loss to understand then how it managed to be posted in the first place.
So, I wasted about two and a half hours this morning as I had to let it be, as is.

I do want to state for the record that the one trip I made to the American Rocky Mountains was in 1991 and not 2001 and that Pluto's downgraded status occurred in 2006, six months after I was an invited guest speaker of the Rick Barber radio program on Dec. 22, 2005 on AM radio station KOA, Denver, Colorado.

I do hope that the message that these other two Moons, besides that of the New or Full Moon closest to the time of our birth, have some profound significance as well, as that of the one closest and which produces the Part of Hyleg, got across to everyone. While all other Astrological Parts may be dependent for their existence upon the Part of Hyleg, at this present time it seems to me that the additional two Hylegesque like Parts are essential for the successful existence of the Part of Hyleg.

Maybe Phoenix Venus, one of the other members here, or my clairvoyant friend Clarisse Conner, can supply a name to title them both with?
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Phoenix Venus

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Thank you piercethevale for your efforts into this topic. The hyleg parts are quite arbitrary and through the recent time spent researching them, we have certainly found some bell ringing connections!

It is quite astronomical...

... And aside from the connections you already mentioned... there is something else, too! Another cross interaction between charts... All three hyleg phases involved.. And this one includes the USA chart..

It's like the cherry on top of the ice cream... :p

I mean what are the odds...!!

Here's the charts and degrees involved:

Piercethevale, I and Yeshuas multicomposite:

Pre new moon hyleg Part: 00.45 Scorpio
Full moon hyleg Part: 16.22 Aries
Post new moon hyleg Part: 01.56 Libra

Piercethevales comp with USA:

Pre new moon hyleg Part: 00.16 Scorpio
Full moon hyleg Part: 15.24 Aries
Post new moon Hyleg Part: 01.56 libra

This, combined with the conjunctions mentioned in the first post, is truly alarming...


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Thank you piercethevale for your efforts into this topic. The hyleg parts are quite arbitrary and through the recent time spent researching them, we have certainly found some bell ringing connections!

It is quite astronomical...

... And aside from the connections you already mentioned... there is something else, too! Another cross interaction between charts... All three hyleg phases involved.. And this one includes the USA chart..

It's like the cherry on top of the ice cream... :p

I mean what are the odds...!!

Here's the charts and degrees involved:

Piercethevale, I and Yeshuas multicomposite:

Pre new moon hyleg Part: 00.45 Scorpio
Full moon hyleg Part: 16.22 Aries
Post new moon hyleg Part: 01.56 Libra

Piercethevales comp with USA:

Pre new moon hyleg Part: 00.16 Scorpio
Full moon hyleg Part: 15.24 Aries
Post new moon Hyleg Part: 01.56 libra

This, combined with the conjunctions mentioned in the first post, is truly alarming...


Dang... and both our natal Venus' are involved here, Mine at 15* :aries: 06', Yours at 00* :scorpio: 49' ...and not to mention that the Yeshu'a natal chart has Pluto 00* :libra: 59'.



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Phoenix Venus informs me that both Obama and Bill Clinton have Traditional Part of Hyleg based on the Full Moon.

Obama's is @ 16* :gemini: 53' 27"


The transformation of physical vitality into the power to build concepts and intellectual formulations through which knowledge can be transferred.

While in the preceding symbol we see the explosive release of impulses generated by a new realization of what is right and wrong - the 'woman' way controlled by feelings - now we have a picture of a process of quiet and steady metamorphosis of biological energy into mind-power, which can be seen symbolically as the 'man' way. The symbolism may seem old-fashioned today, but the two contrasting approaches to communication of new experiences remain evident, however one wishes to symbolize them.

This second stage of the sixteenth sequence, as is nearly always the case, presents a contrast with the first stage. What we see pictured is the transformation of emotions into mind, of instincts into thoughts - a process of

Bill Clinton's is @ 06* :capricorn: 14' 09


The ability to act as a mouthpiece for the revelation of a transcendent will and truth determining future action.

Here we witness the deepest manifestation of that Power which operates within all relatively permanent social units, especially at the level of tribal organization. A tribe is a bio-psychic whole (or organism) integrated by a collective superphysical Power, the god of the tribe. In the Hebrew tradition this god is YHWH (Yahweh-Jehovah); in earlier tribes it may have been a deified more or less mythical 'Great Ancestor'. All these tribal gods are local manifestations of the very power of "life" within the earth's biosphere. It is this deified Power which psychically 'seized' especially sensitive or religiously trained men or women, who became Its mouthpiece — prophets, seers, oracles. That Power operates in our days as well, but in different ways because of the individualization and intellectualization of modern man's consciousness. It binds together and helps to maintain the integration of organized social collectivities. It guides their development by releasing and focusing through especially open persons the visionary expectation of developments about to occur.

At this second stage of the fifty-sixth sub-cycle the future interacts with the present to release it from the inertial power of the past. Thus this symbol stands in contrast to the preceding one. At the threshold of tomorrow man is allowed to have a vision or revelation of the essential elements of the as-yet-unknown next step in evolution. The key word is


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Phoenix Venus worked out all the positions and extracted the Parts, and I thank her.

As Obama and Clinton both have a prenatal Full Moon as their 'Hyleg Moon', as like me, it'll be a "real time" inquiry here to see if the pattern of meaning to the three different Parts remains the same or similar as to what I see being the pattern to mine...which I outlined above.

The prenatal New Moon for Obama used in the Hyleg formula results in:
01* :capricorn: 14' 08"

The prenatal New Moon Hylegesque Part for Barrack Obama is the 2nd degree of Capricorn: [ibid.]


The necessary realization by any individual making a violent use of collective power that it will lead to the inevitable destruction of some of the values ensuring group-integration.

It seems obvious that the interpretation of this symbol should refer to the disruptive consequences of war. The 'chief' who claimed power from his tribe in order to lead or save it must reckon with the consequences of a too-impulsive use of this power in terms of violence. The integration he seeks to maintain or enhance may be partially destroyed if in his ambition he yearns to be the victorious war leader glorified by his people. A 'rose window' is not absolutely essential to a cathedral, yet it symbolizes that through which the 'light of the Spirit' enters into the edifice. Man's soul is said to be three-fold. Which part of man's inner trinity of principles tends to be destroyed by the use of violence? Evidently the principle of love and compassion.

This second stage symbol is in contrast to the preceding one because it opposes the power to destroy to the power to build. The 'capital' of group-energies is partially squandered in armaments and death.
WASTE is the opposite of group-integration."

Wow... this is an interesting development...

About the symbolism for a rose...
from wikipedia:

"The rose has held a deeply symbolic significance in many times and cultures as a symbol of maternal creativity and of the yoni or feminine generative power. The literal rose and its essence or attar has also played a role in religious and spiritual rites which ofttimes would have been held in secret.

The rose has sometimes been said to have been the emblem of the god Horus in ancient Egypt. However the gods in Egypt were usually associated with the lotus. The idea of Horus being linked to the rose probably arises from Greek and Roman cultural cross-transmission of myths from Egypt. Firstly, the rose's connotation of secrecy dates back also to Greek mythology. Aphrodite gave a rose to her son Eros, the god of love; he, in turn, gave it to Harpocrates, the god of silence and a Greek name for a form of Horus, to ensure that his mother's indiscretions (or those of the gods in general, in other accounts) were not disclosed. Secondly, in Egypt, the rose was actually sacred to Isis but this appears to have been during the Roman period of Egyptian history—"Probably due to assimilation with the goddess Aphrodite (Venus), during the Roman period, the rose was used in her worship."[citation needed] The demand for roses throughout the empire turned rose production into an important industry.

Later, the Greeks and Romans translated the god's Egyptian name Heru-pa-khered as Harpocrates and regarded him as the god of silence. The association of Harpocrates with silence and secrecy originates from a misunderstanding of Egyptian depictions of the god. Heru-pa-khered was represented as a naked youth with a finger-to-mouth gesture—in Egyptian artwork this gesture imitates the hieroglyph for child and is used to represent youth, but was misunderstood by later Greeks and Romans as a gesture for silence.

Paintings of roses on the ceilings of Roman banquet rooms were also a reminder that things said under the influence of wine (sub vino) should also remain sub rosa.

In the Middle Ages a rose suspended from the ceiling of a council chamber similarly pledged all present (those under the rose) to secrecy.

In Christian symbolism, the phrase "sub rosa" has a special place in confessions. Pictures of five-petalled roses were often carved on confessionals, indicating that the conversations would remain secret. The phrase has also been understood to make reference to the mysterious virginal conception of Christ.

The rose is also an esoteric symbol of Rosicrucianism which was often considered to be a secret society or brotherhood."

Next, Obama' post natal New Moon Hylegesque like Part


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Moslems do not believe in the "Trinity", if I'm not mistaken by omitting one window this is a representation of omitting the "Son"... in its way...

Obama's Part of Imprisonment (that which you cannot approach, or embrace) is the 19th degree of Pisces, "A MASTER INSTRUCTS HIS DISCIPLE"

This is just mind boggling... the Sabian symbols are truly awesome:sideways:
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I apologize for the mistake. Corrected info is posted below in post #11,
thanks, ptv

President Obama's post natal New Moon Hylegesque like Part is at
01* :sagittarius: 53' 44" .
...that is the 2nd degree of Sagittarius:



The mobilization of unconscious energies under the pressure of super-personal motives.

Wind and sea are in constant interplay, and the results of that interplay are inspiring and beautiful. In symbolism, the wind (pneuma is the early Greek word for 'spirit') is associated with spiritual dynamism; the stirring of deep energies this dynamism produces obeys cosmic or super-personal rhythms, the power of which is irresistible.

At this second stage of the forty-ninth five-fold sequence we have a picture which contrasts the powerful but beautiful storms of nature with the often gory and hysterical crises of a civilization which progresses through war. The picture presented speaks of

I can see the pattern...
Not as clear cut as I had hoped for ...but it's there...subtly, but there.

Next up. President Bill Clinton ...maybe tomorrow at latest.
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The pattern, for those that have the Full Moon prior to birth, seems to be indicating that the prenatal New Moon is that which nurtures and gives growth to the "Radix Vitae".


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Well then let's get to the prenatal New Moon Hylegesque like Part for President Bill Clinton.
...but first a correction.
I should have double checked all of the figures Phoenix V. gave me. the post natal Hylegesque like Part I posted above for Barrack Obama is in error.

That should have been one degree further advanced, that is, it is at 02* :sagittarius: 53' 34" and it is in the 3rd degree of Sagittarius and not the 2nd as I reported and gave the Sabian Symbol for.

The correct Sabian Symbol for Barrack Obama's post natal Hylegesque like Part is: [ibid.]


The transcendent ritualization of conflict.

Essential to socio-cultural living is the transmutation of man's natural aggressiveness under most conditions of existence. Many rituals, sports and games have no other basic aim. In chess the complex types of energies which in their togetherness constitute a human person are symbolized by six kinds of pieces (king, queen, bishops, knights, rooks and pawns). The struggle between light and darkness (the Yang and Yin forces) is ritualized, ending in most cases with the checkmating of the king (the ego, the conscious self). In a dualistic world such a contest between polarized forces is omnipresent. The chess game trains men to be more objective, more careful, more aware of whole situations — and less impulsive and intent upon side issues.

This third stage symbol deals with conflict, but at the level of group culture and psychological symbolization. It brings to the objective consciousness the basic realities in interpersonal

Now, that's why the other symbol seemed subtle to me...because it was wrong but being of the next degree it does follow, or precede this one, depending on which technique you use and being as such when combined in the triune with the other two that are correct it wouldn't readily reveal itself as being in error because of the closeness in similarity...like looking at a slightly misspelled word and not noticing it.
But with the correct symbol placed in the triune...it's "clear cut" as to the pattern being there, as was believed and hoped it would be.

Bill Clinton's prenatal New Moon Hylegesque like Part is at 21* :cancer: 01' 28"



The longing for transcendent happiness in the soul opened to great dreams.

Here the symbol pictures the imaginative youthful person who basically cannot be satisfied with what his or her ordinary social environment offers, and who instead is longing for the unknown visitation of which he or she has dreamed. From the unconscious beyond, the concretization of a spiritual image — spiritual because impelled by the 'wind' (pneuma, spirit) — is hoped for and expected. The Beloved may come — not in a glittering opera house, but in the silence of the inner sea of consciousness.

At this second stage of this five-fold sequence the contrast with the first is strongly marked. Will the great dream become concrete? Will the emotion ready to well up in response to the Advent have its chance? Will the
EXPECTANCY of the Eternal Feminine be rewarded with reality?"



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Bill Clinton's postnatal New Moon Hylegesque like Part is at 22* :gemini: 48' 30"
That is the 23rd degree of Gemini:


The growth of spiritually creative processes in an at least relatively integrated mind.

In traditional symbolism birds usually refer to spiritual forces, or at least to the higher and freer aspects of the mind. Here we see only the very beginning of a process in what we might also call "the upper chamber" of the consciousness where the creative power of the spirit can be received and assimilated. Fecundated by the spirit and supported by a deeply rooted cultural and vitalistic tradition, man can gradually develop an integral personality. It is essentially three-fold, reflecting the Divine Trinity, in India expressed as Sat-Chit-Ananda.

This is the third stage of a process which should lead to a deeper and more natural understanding of human existence. It suggests that the ambitious mass protests of aroused and largely blind desires should be transmuted through harmonization with natural drives and in terms of spontaneous responses attuned to the phases of natural evolution. Stressed here is

...Yeah, buddy... that's our ex President, Bill "Bubba" Clinton to a "T" alright:wink:...:cool:

What I have perceived as a pattern has held up to scrutiny,

Now the question is, what of those that have the prenatal New Moon, for their natal Hyleg Moon, and how does that differ overall?


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I could construe Obama's three Parts to mean something as like the following.

His childhood formative years were about being raised in Islamic fundamentals and it was instilled in him that Islam is at odds with Christianity. Islam does not believe in the Trinity, at least they don't believe in the "Son" aspect of it and Islam considers Yeshu'a to have been nothing more than a prophet.

Te birth chart I produced for Yeshu'a on the date given by the renowned 20th century clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce, definitely shows that He was far more than a prophet, He was "The Expected One", the Magi knew it, the Vedas support it and I've given much theory founded in fact that the Vedas are correct in that an "Avatar", an "Archetype" is born aprrx. every 26,664 years.
I don't know if Islam contends that He didn't perform the "miracles" that are reported that He did (Cayce contended that everyone of them was in fact true and that there were also other "miraculous" acts He was the source of. Those "miracles" that He is said to have performed are all know to Vedic/Yogic science as siddhis. The have been a number of accomplished adepts in India and the Himalayan region that have walked on water, healed the sick, manifested material objects out of thin air {as like Yeshu'a multiplying the loaves and fish, changing water to wine. It might even be that some have raised the dead...although it would only be for the most extreme of reasons. Any yogi that is that advanced in his spiritual evolution knows that one does not undo what God has wrought.
As Ram Das, nee Richard Alpert, the author of "Be Here Now" wrote that it is true what Christianity purports that if ye do have enough faith you can move a mountain, every last teaspoon of rock and dirt of it... but He also went on to state that when one is that advanced one also is so attuned to Gods' own Will that one realizes there is absolutely no need to move that mountain because it is right where God put it for what ever reason God has.
I know that many Islamics' even claim that Yeshu'a didn't die on the cross and there was no Transfiguration and no Resurrection (I'm not sure if that is a universal belief among them but I've gotten the impression that it is.)
Islam is inherently calling Christianity a heretical religion, basically a lie.

There is a great deal of Christian dogma form the 30,000 to 40,000 different sects of Christianity that exist presently (those are the correct numbers that I have found to be the consensus of how many different sects the "experts" estimate there to be in existence presently) that I don't agree with and a lot of which I find (believe) to be utterly ridiculous. I don't believe He died for anyones' sins yet I do believe if one excepts Him as their "Avatar", Archetype or Satguru then He did atone for many of them of yours, theirs, whomevers... it is no different than that what a Satguru will do for his sisyas (Disciples). I don't believe He was the only "Son of God"...we all are Gods' children, Sons and Daughters. I don't believe what was issued by the, so called, Church authorities as the "New Testament" to be entirely truthful either and I don't believe the Vatican is the authority...far from it.
But I don't believe in throwing the "Baby out with the bathwater" either. Christianity will eventually be rectified an the true first church is that established at, what is presently known as, Glastonbury, around 42 A.D. by Yoseph of Arimathea and Ya'aqov, the uncle and the brother of Yeshu'a, or otherwise known to most folks as Joseph and James the Just, first Bishop of Jerusalem appointed by Yeshu'a himself. The date Cayce gave for the birth of Yeshu'a and the natal chart I produced for that date are but one of the first major important steps in that direction...give it time.

I apologize for being so pedantic and long winded, but I felt it was necessary so as to proceed here.

Given that was the infancy that Obama had, how He was raised, then it can be seen that He had returned to the United States with an agenda that He thought long and hard about...one that He fortified through the classes He took in Universities and from those He chose for his intellectual circle>
He intended to destroy Christianity as it exists in the America, and everywhere else presently in the world...not to rectify it or eradicate what is erroneous but rather destroy it, eliminate it.

...but then again, the Bush clan has perpetrated in three terms of presidency more evil than He could if he were to be given ten terms in the White House.

Which brings us to the last of the Hylegesque like Parts, that f His postnatal New Moon and what was derived from it in the Hyleg formula to be the 3rd degree of Sagittarius and by Rudhyar's description of the Sabian Symbol and His interpretation that is "TWO MEN PLAYING CHESS. KEYNOTE: The transcendent ritualization of conflict." ...and as Dane went on to inform all... "Essential to socio-cultural living is the transmutation of man's natural aggressiveness under most conditions of existence." ...and Dane then went on to explain... "In chess the complex types of energies which in their togetherness constitute a human person are symbolized by six kinds of pieces." ...and Dane reminded us that it is ever all about just this... "The struggle between light and darkness..." ...as it has from the very beginning of time and that... "In a dualistic world such a contest between polarized forces is omnipresent." ... and this never ending conflict between these two ideologies is just exactly a manifestation of that... But,He has been well cultivated, well studied and trained "...to be more objective, more careful, more aware of whole situations — and less impulsive and intent upon side issues." ...so as to deal... "... with conflict, but at the level of group culture and psychological symbolization." ...he is a wily master of... "... objective consciousness" ...and that of the... "... basic realities in interpersonal INTERPLAY."

I had Dr. George L. Johnson, (Professor of Physics, B.S. Calif. Institute of Technology, L.L.B. Harvard Law School, M.S. & Ph.D., U.C.L.A.) for two courses in college. He worked at the Lawrence Livermore Lab and taught at Sonoma State College. One course was Astronomy 100, the other course was Physics 301. 'The Relation of Physics to Society" in which one half of the semester was dedicated to educating us about nuclear energy being used to produce electricity and that it was madness to use Fission reactors. He told us that Fusion research was being oppressed at the time, informed us that the A.E.C. was under the dominion of the Defense Dept. because the only reason the United States was building and promoting Fission reactors was so as to produce bomb grade enriched plutonium. The second half of the semester was the study of future weapons developments. That's what they did at Lawrence Livermore Lab, it was a research facility to produce weapons of mass destruction.

There is no other reason for a nuclear fission reactor but to produce bomb grade plutonium...NO OTHER REASON. As for the problem with storing the waste, transporting it, the dangers of an accident at a plan ...that given what He taught us and we have all witnessed has subsequently proved to be true and factual as per what we've seen at Chernobyl and Fukushima.

Given that Iran is extremely oil rich, why would they need a fission reactor , why would they want something so dangerous to control and operate, so much effort to research and then build... why?

To produce bomb grade plutonium, that's why.

Barrack's given birth time of 7:24 p.m produce and Ascendant at 18* :aquarius: 02' 41" ...and that being symbolically "WHO" he is, which is revealed by the Sabian Symbol for th 19th of Aquarius as [ibid.]
The skill and courage necessary to bring under control the destructive potential of carelessness of karmic "visitations."
...and is summated by Rudhyar as... "we are shown man in action in a crucial and potentially devastating situation. There is need for a total mobilization of energy and a deep sense of INDOMITABILITY."

But, it is very close to the cusp of the preceding degree, very close indeed and to the extent that the symbolism from the preceding degree must also be taken into account... and in fact if the actual birth time were to be 7:23:50 p.m, that is to say a mere ten seconds earlier, then the Ascendant becomes 17* :aquarius: 59' 55" ...and what you find to be what the "WHO" of his being to then be as: [ibid.]

The difficulty for the modern individual to keep secret his private past or his deeper motives.:bandit:

:bandit:This symbol logically follows the two preceding ones. Today, struggle between the power of society and the rights of the individual leads in the end to the defeat of the latter. The media and innumerable governmental agencies are nearly always able to find access to remains or records of past actions; modern psychologists and psychiatrists are increasingly adept at penetrating the deepest secrets of a life through 'analysis' and all kinds of more or less allowed techniques involving drugs and the subconscious reactions of muscles and nerves. The individual whose activities have to remain unrecognized is engaged in a constant struggle; he needs the help of higher Powers as well as of the protective agencies he may have placed at his service.

This is the third stage in the sixty-fourth five-fold sequence of archetypal images of the cyclic process. It refers to the
UNMASKING of hidden motives and personal secrets. It may refer to the publicizing of past behavior."

..and WHILE THIS CONJECTURE IS ALL BUT OF MY MOST HUMBLE OPINION... don't forget that his Part of Imprisonment is in the 19th of Pisces: [ibid.] "A MASTER INSTRUCTS HIS DISCIPLE":whistling::wink:

Coming up...
Richard Nixon's Part of Hyleg and the attendant two Hylegesque like Parts.
...and His Part of Hyleg is based on the prenatal New Moon...
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Richard Nixon's Part of Hyleg and the two attendant Hylegesque like Parts.

Based on the data given for President Nixon's birth, that is January 9, 1913 at 9:35 p.m in Whittier Junction, Calif., (which is the same data I've previously used for any natal chart for Richard Nixon) and that it was a prenatal New Moon that was closest prior to the date of his birth, which said prenatal New Moon was at 16* :capricorn: 33' 04", along with His natal Asc. at Virgo 17" 12' 51", (which just so happens to be the same sign and degree that the Part of Soul/Spirit for the USA is derived from the, so called, "Zero Hour" natal chart for the USA, i.e. 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.) and his natal Moon position of 20* :aquarius: 07' 22"
we can derive that his "traditional" Part of Hyleg is found at 20* :libra: 47' 04".

By Dane Rudhyar's analysis and estimation the Sabian Symbol found for the 21st degree of Libra is as follows: [ibid.]


A revivifying contact with the Mother-force of nature and of social togetherness.

The sea is the vast matrix from which living organisms originally emerged. It also symbolizes the collective Unconscious, the 'matricial' envelope of the biosphere within which consciousness takes individualized forms. The consciousness of human beings is given specific form by the culture in which they live and the particular occupations they carry on in everyday work. But it is very good and healthful for their minds to become revitalized by collective experiences and deep feelings of undifferentiated unity as they merge in the vast refreshment of the planetary 'Mother' where 'she' is most dynamic, unlimited and unconfined by boundaries.

At this first stage of the forty-first five-fold sequence of symbols we see the foundation on which coming developments will be based. It is in a sense a biodynamic foundation, but it reaches beyond even the biosphere to what in all cosmic types of organization is the Mother-principle — for instance, galactic Space. We may speak here of
OCEANIC FEELING, born of attunement to the most basic rhythms of existence, at whatever level it might be."

Well, He did grow up in Southern California which is home to some of the finest, most temperate beaches in the world and I myself grew up in southern California as well and can attest to the "Sunday crowds" that do swarm to the beaches of So Cal most all year and even in the Winter they still draw people seeking to revitalize their souls along the waters edge... just as like Byron wrote in Childe Harold's Pilgrimage "...There is a society where none intrudes. By the deep sea, and music in its roar. ..."
I know that roar well...I learned to crave it as for being the result of a near constant media barrage one was subjected to being a resident of Los Angeles. ...and I doubt that it has likely changed since I last saw L.A in 1991.

Yet, for a Part of Hyleg for Richard Nixon?

Well... The United States Environmental Protection Agency was proposed by President Richard Nixon and began operation on December 2, 1970, after Nixon signed an executive order.

But, was He truly someone that had found that "Oceanic Felling" at sometime during his life. did He really "feel" for his 'Mother Earth'...?

Judge for yourselves,

Here in the following are President Nixon's remarks on Receiving the Boy Scouts' Annual Report to the Nation.
February 5, 1970

"I PARTICULARLY appreciate this Report to the Nation to the Honorary President of the Boy Scouts and the emphasis that the report has made on the work that Scouts will do in the field of the environment.

Our young people have an enormous interest in 'the environment and Scouts have had from the time of their foundation because they know of the natural beauty of this country, and they want to preserve it--preserve it for their children and for all the generations to come.

I think that the emphasis that you place is particularly appropriate because there is a tendency sometimes when we talk about the environment to blame the other fellow, to say, "Well, why doesn't the Government do something to clean this up?" And the Government has to do some things. We are going to be talking about those things on a trip to Indiana and Illinois today. And others say, "Why doesn't industry do something to clean up the environment? Industry is polluting the waters and the air and so forth." And industry has to do a lot, too, in order to clean up the environment.

But as I pointed out in the State of the Union speech, most of us spend about 80 percent of our time in what is basically a personal environment where we are responsible, in our homes, in our offices if we are of working age, or on the streets, in the parks, and so forth.

I think that if the 5 million Scouts, as an individual example, can give leadership to the whole Nation with regard to doing everything individually that he can do to leave every place he goes a little bit cleaner, a little bit better for the people who follow him, that this will help us enormously on this attack on the problems of the environment, because this is a struggle that must be waged and won on many fronts.

You can't just say Government is going to do it or industry is going to do it. Every individual has to enlist if we are going to make the environment of this country what we want it to be and what I want all the Scouts in the future to find in the years ahead. So thank you very much.

Incidentally, speaking of the environment, there is a Rose Garden out here with no roses in it at the moment, but there will be later. We are going to take off by helicopter for the airport. And some of you might like to go out and see the takeoff. We can't take you along; there is not enough room."

...if you all might have noticed he did mention his State of the Union Speech of 1970..

Seems to me that He was very much concerned for the environment, and sincerely concerned and not just paying political lip service.

I'll get to the other two Hylegesque like Parts tomorrow, hopefully or as soon as it is possible.
Thanks, ptv
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Nixon's postnatal Full Moon appeared at 02* :leo: 02' 56' and that when used in the Part of Hyleg formula yields a Hylegesque like Part at 05*:pisces: 17' 17" and that just also happens to be the Sign and degree of the location of the Part of Omens & Signs derived from the, aforementioned, USA natal chart.

By Rudhyar's ;interpretation and summation the 6th degree of Pisces is said to be as thus: [ibid.]


The dedication of human beings to the service of their community, and the assurance that it will be emotionally sustained by the people at large.

Here we see at work the emotion-rousing appeal of social activities which demand the surrendering by the individual of his personal way of life, his opinions and his comfort. The socializing process is pictured in all its intensity but what is implied even more is the support that the socialized person can expect from the collectivity if he is ready to act and to sacrifice himself for the nation or the group.

This is the first symbol of the sixty-eighth series. It allegorizes the power generated by a totally accepted and enforced collective discipline, and the exaltation and mass response which he who has achieved this self-surrender to a social tradition can expect in return.
The Keyword is

Well, in light of that little speech he gave the Boy Scouts about "group responsibility" and as for the "Watergate affair" that He did go out on a limb assuming He would be sustained by his community, but then later on realizing that was not going to be, and seeing how damaging it would be to the collective whole, He did the right thing and had the dignity to resign... and showed me a lot of class in the manner and way He did so.

Yet, it is somewhat applicable to the, so called, "Checkers incident', which did play out in that manner somewhat... it was a bit of a "parade" put on by Richard and He found his support, quite a bit of it in fact.

I never saw Nixon as the evil machinating villain the broadcast media and press tried to portray him as. He ticked off a lot of people of the Jewish community with a few of the things He had said that got caught on tape and as the greater percentage of all media in the nation at that time was in the ownership of people of Jewish faith, needless to say that didn't work out to well for him.

I was working for a friend, helping him paint his future in laws home in Bel Air, California the Summer of 1973, which was then, and likely still is, a rather very influential community of wealth, power, and prestige in Southern California and known to be the home of an exceptionally high percentage of folks of the Jewish faith, along with neighboring Beverly Hills, West Hollywood, Fairfax and Westwood. I got to hear and experience the vitriol that they had for Nixon that Summer first hand, up close and personal.

next up. Nixon's postnatal New Moon Hylegesque like Part


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The postnatal New Moon of President Nixon's appeared in the sky at 16* :aquarius: 50' 38" which is the exact same Sign and degree of the USA's natal Moon.

When used in the Part of Hyleg formula what is derived from that is 20*:virgo: 29' 35" and that just happens to be where the newly revealed Part that member Phoenix Venus and I accidentally came upon due to my using the Part of Fortune in place of the Sun in the Part of Destiny formula that upon consulting with our favorite clairvoyant (mine, anyways..I'm not sure of Phoenix's feelings in the matter), Clarisse Conner, whom told us that see saw the multi-limbed entity, that is revered as a Goddess in India, dispelling the "Darkness"... and, thus so given that description, Phoenix and I concurred to call it the Part of Durga...

Richard Nixon's post natal New Moon Hylegesque like Part shares the same Sign and degree with the USA's Part of Durga (Phoenix Venus and I have a thread on this 'Part of Durga" in the Degree Symbols forum and give examples of why we found that we concurred with Clarisse's vision of how and what she saw that uniquely different Parts formula amounted to in producing as a Part. Check it out if you are at all curious or interested, please.) which is in the 21st degree of Virgo, and by Rudhyar's book:


Physical training as a means to inculcate the feeling of participation in a collective culture.

Basketball presents an interesting symbol. The ball must be thrown into a narrow opening high above the head of the player. The ego-consciousness (the ball) must be driven upward to a focal point or circle that is ready to receive it. In a sense, this parallels what the boy on the merry-go-round (Virgo 6°) can do if he succeeds in penetrating the ring with his stick, but there are notable differences. Here the players operate as a team; in the original formulation of the symbol there was no reference to two teams and thus to the competitive character of the game. What should be stressed here is the formation of a group acting as an organic whole and training itself to operate in a social context.

This is the first stage of a second-level sequence of five symbols, as was the symbol of the merry-go-round. A definite type of educational activity is implied with cultural, and as well emotional, overtones. It implies the training for
GROUP INTEGRATION of 'girls', i.e. of a type of consciousness more specifically receptive to collective forces.

What is so odd about this symbol (besides being my Part of Imprisonment...that which I cannot approach or embrace...and goes along perfectly in compliment to my M.C. and the co-joining Part of Fortune in the 25th of Leo which has the Sabian Symbol of a camel crossing a desert, alone.) is that at the age of twelve, Richard was found to have a spot on his lung and, with a family history of tuberculosis, he was forbidden to play sports. Eventually, the spot was found to be scar tissue from an early bout of pneumonia, though.
He went to Fullerton Union High School and He received excellent grades He played junior varsity football, and seldom missed a practice, even though he was rarely used in games. He had greater success on the Debate team and as a debater He won a number of championships.
He transferred to a different high school his senior year that was closer to home and had to drop football as the family business was a grocery store and his mother had taken his brother to Arizona in the hopes of curing his tuberculosis thus putting the pressure on Richard to pick up the slack, rising at 4 a.m. to drive the family truck into Los Angeles and purchase vegetables at the market. He then drove to the store to wash and display them, before going to school.

Despite all the time taken away from him, that Nixon could have applied towards school, Richard still managed to graduate 3rd in his senior high school class of 207 students.

Nixon was offered a tuition grant to attend Harvard University, but his brothers' continued illness and the need for their mother to care for him meant Richard was needed at the store. He remained in his hometown and attended Whittier College, his expenses there covered by a bequest from his maternal grandfather. Nixon played for the basketball team; he also tried out for football, but lacked the size to play. He remained on the team as a substitute, and was noted for his enthusiasm. Instead of fraternities and sororities, Whittier had literary societies. Nixon was snubbed by the only one for men, the Franklins; many members of the Franklins were from prominent families but Nixon was not. He responded by helping to found a new society, the Orthogonian Society. In addition to the society, schoolwork, and work at the store, Nixon found time for a large number of extracurricular activities, becoming a champion debater and gaining a reputation as a hard worker.

After his graduation from Whittier in 1934, Nixon received a full scholarship to attend Duke University School of Law. The school was new and sought to attract top students by offering scholarships. It paid high salaries to its professors, many of whom had national or international reputations. The number of scholarships was greatly reduced for second- and third-year students, forcing recipients into intense competition. Nixon not only kept his scholarship but was elected president of the Duke Bar Association, inducted into the Order of the Coif, and graduated third in his class in June 1937.

Nixon initially hoped to join the Federal Bureau of Investigation. He received no response to his letter of application and learned years later that he had been hired, but his appointment had been canceled at the last minute due to budget cuts. Instead, he returned to California and was admitted to the bar in 1937. He began practicing with the law firm Wingert and Bewley in Whittier, working on commercial litigation for local petroleum companies and other corporate matters, as well as on wills. In later years, Nixon proudly stated that he was the only modern president to have previously worked as a practicing attorney.

He got married and had a job with the U.S. gov't in the Office of Price Administration that was initiated for the second world war. But Nixon wanted to be in the action, obviously feeling like He was sitting on the bench in Washington D.C., so in April of 1942 He applied to join the United States Navy. As a birthright Quaker, he could have claimed exemption from the draft, but chose not to apply for a deferment; he might also have been deferred because he worked in government service. His application to enlist was successful, and he was inducted into the Navy in August 1942.

Nixon completed Officers Candidate School and was commissioned as an ensign in October 1942. His first post was as aide to the commander of the Naval Air Station Ottumwa in Iowa. Seeking real action, he requested sea duty and was reassigned as the naval passenger control officer for the South Pacific Combat Air Transport Command, supporting the logistics of operations in the South West Pacific theater. He was Officer in Charge of the Combat Air Transport Command, at Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands, and later at Green Island (Nissan island). His unit prepared manifests and flight plans for C-47 operations and supervised the loading and unloading of the cargo aircraft. For this service he received a Letter of Commendation for "meritorious and efficient performance of duty as Officer in Charge of the South Pacific Combat Air Transport Command" On October 1, 1943, Nixon was promoted to lieutenant. Nixon earned two service stars and that citation of commendation, although he saw no actual combat. Upon his return to the U.S., Nixon was appointed the administrative officer of the Alameda Naval Air Station in California. In January 1945, he was transferred to the Bureau of Aeronautics office in Philadelphia to help negotiate the termination of war contracts, and he received another letter of commendation for his work there. Later, Nixon was transferred to other offices to work on contracts and finally to Baltimore. In October 1945, he was promoted to lieutenant commander. He resigned his commission on New Year's Day 1946.

That's what I call A TEAM PLAYER...!
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Mine is in Scorpio.


Have you followed through on our suggestion here, as to finding out what the two other Moons surrounding your D.O.B. amount to?

Then referring all three of the "Parts" to the Sabian Symbol given for the degree and Sign of each one take the time to study them, meditate on them, and then see if they don't reflect your life, so far.
Unless you are very young, you should be able to discern their relevance.

Look at Richard Nixon's above. All three are Sabian Symbols of group participation in some manner. In fact Rudhyar summarized the two that are Hylegesque Parts as, "Group Integration" and "Group Responsibility" and as to Nixon's Part of Hyleg, Dane wrote of how that Symbol, is to be interpreted as the revivifying nature of "social togetherness" in a grand cosmic sense.

If you do follow through on this it would also be wonderful if you could share the results with us all.
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There is a lot of stuff going on for me to grasp-but all are informative and well written-I needed to extract the formula needed to make my Hyleg part.So correct my formula,if it is wrong.Prior to my birth,there was a

new moon in virgo 26 aug 1995 at 2'29 virgo and 3 (according to sabian)

and the full moon was in 10 aug in 18 aquarius.

my part of hyleg format

ASC (6'07) + MOON (05'44) + SAN or New moon (2'29 Virgo) = SCORPIO 9'22 which mean 10 scorpio sabian

KEYNOTE: The overtones of human relationships based on a community of work or experiences.
This symbol pictures the essential nature of the bond that unites individuals who have participated in some common activity. The social feeling of communion, plus all that it engenders, arises after the act performed together. Activity is at the root of consciousness. Activity in common generates social consciousness and cultural patterns which become set in the form of institutions. A group-personality emerges, which displays characteristic features and gives birth to collective emotions and values.
This is the final stage of the forty-fourth five-fold sequence. Wherever the symbol appears, it suggests the importance of establishing or strengthening links with those with whom one has shared, or can share, living experiences. The value of COMRADESHIP is emphasized.


ASC+ MOON + FULL MOON= 24'12 taurus 25 taurus

KEYNOTE: The cultivation of natural energies for collective use and recreation.
At this final stage of the sequence of symbols focusing on emotional-cultural values, we witness the positive and impressive results of man's collective endeavor to live in peace and to enjoy moments of relaxation. The public park is designed and kept for the enjoyment of all the people of the city.
This is a symbol of COLLECTIVE ENJOYMENT. The individual finds in the products of his culture an emotional enhancement born of the feeling of "belonging" to a large, organized, peaceful whole.

is this right?



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My hyleg in scorpio in the 4th house is opposite my part of spirit in 10 degree taurus in the 10th house.

Scorpio 10. In a field of dandelions, a yellow dragon appears. (Omega Symbol) Interacting/Inspired

(Degree Angel: SITAEL (SIT-ah-EL) Eliminating Negative Thoughts, Construction of Universe/Worlds)
The common and ordinary are so very unusual, but of course, as we learn to see this, even the unusual even becomes usual! This degree is inexplicably strange and extremely unique, but yet carries with it an aura of innocence and blithe normality. There is a wonderful amalgamation of joy and power, which, as we come to understand it, we see is actually pure joy intensified into utter potency.

The Chandra Symbol for this degree is “ On a human nose a wart turns into a diamond.” Dandelions and warts are common, and considered by many to be ugly, whereas dragons and diamonds are rare, wondrous and special. The special alchemy of this degree is turning the mundane into the precious by seeing it as precious.

And at a higher level even those things which we consider tragedies, failures and mishaps have about them something beautiful in the way they are so personally tailored as learning experiences. To see them in this way is the special power of this degree, a power which is redemptive and liberating.

Taurus 25. A holographic computer.(Omega Symbol)Interacting/Inspired

(Degree Angel: Mebahiah (me-BA-hee-YAH) Thought Into Action, Intellectual Lucidity)

You have a way of making things clearer to other people. Your vividness of perception can assist others in understanding their dilemmas more fully. As they get a clearer idea of what they are dealing with they are much more likely to move forward in their lives. Yours is the gift of being able to make experience more real to others.

The Chandra Symbol for this degree is “Bees returning to their hive.” This degree senses the whole of humanity, and feels a oneness with all life, just as the holographic computer brings together in a wholeness every angle of the picture being perceived. Its vibration fosters connectedness, inclusiveness and acceptance of all people in a mutual effort of working together and sharing. This sense of completeness is difficult to bring to others, for as is usual with the 25th degree of every sign there is a cosmic awareness that is so high and pure its difficult to translate into practical reality. The attempt to do so, though, is a life's work, and worth every effort.
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