The Dark love of Scorpio

Sentient0ne

Premium Member
Scorpio is invasive and lies hidden until given reason to express itself.

I had responded to this post in 2012, when it was first initiated and also when the last comment was posted. It takes the delving of a Scorpio to flush out what once was.

Once again, my own Scorpio/8th house/Pluto energy was catalyzed to respond.

Interesting responses so far. I'll simply lurk in the background and ponder.
 

love-thinking

Well-known member
Venus square Pluto in a man's chart is indicative of BDSM?

Pluto transits typically make one MUCH more magnetic than normal! But you sure you have lost your appeal? I mean, Pluto's changes are permanent I read :D[/Q

Well I sure hope so. Pluto is 3-4 degrees away from my IC. I was less attractive then aesthetically. Honestly, when I was with him, I had men hitting on me left and right. It was like it was HIS karma and not mine. I'm sure god/universe hates him more than he loves me haha.

I also had pluto on my sun. I don't get hit on as much anymore. Last time a man has approached me was in september. However, they also say when you have sex, or are intimate with a soulmate, karmic or otherwise, your chakras open up.

Ohh is venus square pluto bdsm? Didn't know that lol .

There's something I found out, I'll post it in the physical appearance and human biology forum you started. :)
 

Animatrix

Well-known member
Venus square Pluto in a man's chart is indicative of BDSM?

Pluto transits typically make one MUCH more magnetic than normal! But you sure you have lost your appeal? I mean, Pluto's changes are permanent I read :D[/Q

Well I sure hope so. Pluto is 3-4 degrees away from my IC. I was less attractive then aesthetically. Honestly, when I was with him, I had men hitting on me left and right. It was like it was HIS karma and not mine. I'm sure god/universe hates him more than he loves me haha.

I also had pluto on my sun. I don't get hit on as much anymore. Last time a man has approached me was in september. However, they also say when you have sex, or are intimate with a soulmate, karmic or otherwise, your chakras open up.

Ohh is venus square pluto bdsm? Didn't know that lol .

There's something I found out, I'll post it in the physical appearance and human biology forum you started. :)

One becomes more attractive when in love I believe.

Venus square Pluto could indicate BDSM was a question! But I'm sure it could. Mars-Pluto contacts as well. I think all venus-pluto contacts could indicate that in its extreme form of course.

Yes post what u found out! I'm eager to know!
 

Sunset

Member
I have both Pluto and Mars in Scorpio. In relationships of any kind I want depth; and not just penetrating the surface a bit, but instead as deep as I can possibly go. Seems to be the trademark 'all or nothing' of the placement, which in my case at least is true. I want intensity because it's real, those extremes are where the truth is. I want the good, bad, beautiful and ugly of a person, I want to see it all, feel it all, embrace it all. As for possessiveness, my own take on it is that when I'm in a romantic relationship, it's like a fusion for me, and I'm possessive of my space and all that's within it. It's mine, after all, and I claim it, defend it, fight for it. Why is Scorpio love 'dark' to some? I think it's the intensity itself, the exposure. There are no superficialities in love with me, I desire to see and embrace the depths of a person's soul, wholly. And this seems to be transformative to some extent for those I get involved with, as inner truth is inevitably exposed, shadows faced, problems resolved. I think 'love is war' might be a good phrase to keep in mind when thinking about Mars wearing the face of Scorpio.

I have the same aspects, both Pluto and Mars in Scorpio in the eight house (and Saturn) and I feel it exactly the same. The only thing I don't agree with is the last sentence. Pluto has nothing to do with love. Only with depth and searching for what's behind and having the thoroughness to do that. Mars has nothing to do with it either. It’s why you can use the energy for good and bad.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi,

First and foremost, none of the outer planets, least of all Pluto, has anything to do with love.

Love is a very personal, perhaps the most personal emotion and none of the outer/generational/impersonal planets can fulfil that characteristic.

Pluto is all about annihilation, extreme cycles of good and bad, cold manipulation to get what one wants because it intensifies desire, going deep to dig out and resurface the hidden and transform the present...

Some seem to have, with half-baked knowledge, taken a fancy to perceiving Pluto to be something sexy and dark. Pluto can be intense, but not in a good sense. That kind of intensity, when it comes to love, can only be out of selflessness, devotion (Pluto is devouring, not devoting) and compassion. Pluto is none of that.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
But surely if venus is involved with pluto by certain aspects, its to do with love ?
It is Venus and Venus alone that has to do with love. Not Pluto. What Pluto will do is manipulate and make the Venus-Pluto aspect native go to extreme, as in even spoil the case by making the native wanting to devour the partner, to go to the extreme of suffocating the partner. The person with this aspect is comfortable with that energy because he has that energy within himself, so he will also want to face that intensity from his partner.

Pluto is a cold, dark planet, more like Saturn (but even darker), not like Venus or the Sun.
 

Chrysalis

Well-known member
It is Venus and Venus alone that has to do with love. Not Pluto. What Pluto will do is manipulate and make the Venus-Pluto aspect native go to extreme, as in even spoil the case by making the native wanting to devour the partner, to go to the extreme of suffocating the partner. The person with this aspect is comfortable with that energy because he has that energy within himself, so he will also want to face that intensity from his partner.

Pluto is a cold, dark planet, more like Saturn (but even darker), not like Venus or the Sun.

So will the venus/pluto native never find love then ?

Ive got a tight venus/pluto conjunction and im all the things you say above and more, and your right i need the same intensity from the other person, and i have only ever found this in one person so far, but he did also have the venus/pluto conjunction even tighter than mine and in scorpio too.....but it was a brief affair we had though :sad:

Im just never going to find mr right am i...pluto wants me all to himself.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
So will the venus/pluto native never find love then ?
...
Im just never going to find mr right am i...pluto wants me all to himself.
Darling, how can you not find love when you have Venus in your chart staring you in the face and screaming for you to free it off of Pluto's bondage?

I have Venus square Neptune, so I too am faced with an outer planet affecting my Venus and that too in a square.

What Venus is asking of us is to make it stronger than the outer planets by learning our lessons. With Pluto-Venus, your lesson is to not suffocate your partner, but give him/her space to breathe and love the way they are 'able' to, not the way you want them to (Pluto), or they will run away. You have to learn to adjust (Pluto wants the opp.), so you have to trump (don't like that word:biggrin:) Venus above Pluto.

Natives, like myself, with Venus-Nep, have to learn to see reality for what it is especially in matters of love and money (Venus), not see the world through an escapist's (Nep) or rose-coloured glasses.

Obviously you also have to look at the sign-strength of Venus (dignified, detrimented, or neutral).
 
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Chrysalis

Well-known member
Will a pluto person attract other pluto natives to them ?

Like for example with myself ive got venus/pluto conjunction so will other pluto guys sense this pluto-ness in me (as i have other planets to pluto too) and be drawn to me ?
 

Chrysalis

Well-known member
Obviously you also have to look at the sign-strength of Venus (dignified, detrimented, or neutral).

My venus is in Libra so does this lessen my pluto issues ?

If say my venus was in fall in virgo conjunct pluto, what would be the difference ?
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Will a pluto person attract other pluto natives to them ?

Like for example with myself ive got venus/pluto conjunction so will other pluto guys sense this pluto-ness in me (as i have other planets to pluto too) and be drawn to me ?
Hopefully, not because it would be better if they have already overcome their plutonic energy and learnt their lessons. Hopefully, you will have too, so you will not need to look for such plutonic people to smother you. See, some confuse compulsion and obsession with passion or loyalty, when all an obsessed person is acting upon is selfishness because they want what they want and are okay with suffocating the other person. Is that love? OMG, just the opposite because how can you say you love or care for another person when all you are concerned about is serving your own obsession.

Obviously you also have to look at the sign-strength of Venus (dignified, detrimented, or neutral).

My venus is in Libra so does this lessen my pluto issues ?

If say my venus was in fall in virgo conjunct pluto, what would be the difference ?
Given your astro knowledge, you know the answer to that one. If your Venus is strong, which it is in Libra, it will act strongly or will have more power, so you have more of a chance to overcome Pluto getting the better of it/of you.

A weak Venus, such as one in Virgo or Scorpio will be require more effort to bring out its strength to fight negative energies and qualities.
 

Animatrix

Well-known member
Hi,

First and foremost, none of the outer planets, least of all Pluto, has anything to do with love.

Love is a very personal, perhaps the most personal emotion and none of the outer/generational/impersonal planets can fulfil that characteristic.

Pluto is all about annihilation, extreme cycles of good and bad, cold manipulation to get what one wants because it intensifies desire, going deep to dig out and resurface the hidden and transform the present...

Some seem to have, with half-baked knowledge, taken a fancy to perceiving Pluto to be something sexy and dark. Pluto can be intense, but not in a good sense. That kind of intensity, when it comes to love, can only be out of selflessness, devotion (Pluto is devouring, not devoting) and compassion. Pluto is none of that.

So you mean that Neptune has nothing to do with love? This is not my view. And Pluto is not necessarily that super-evil. Pluto can add depth to a love relationship, as a good thing. Venus is kind of superifical on its own.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
So you mean that Neptune has nothing to do with love? This is not my view. And Pluto is not necessarily that super-evil. Pluto can add depth to a love relationship, as a good thing. Venus is kind of superifical on its own.
And you are, of course, always entitled to your own opinion.:sideways:

However, since you have so graciously asked me for mine, I have to beg to differ. No, Pluto does not deepen love in a good way. Venus by itself is most capable of love and the kind of love that is warm, giving and caring. Along with the likes of the Moon (emotions) and the Sun (life) as well as Mars (physical expression, not just sex, but also hugging and acting out of love) Venus does not need any outer planet whatsoever to complement it.

What Pluto does, I have already explained in my previous post. Pluto intensifies the attract to the extreme of making it a compulsive obsession and creates a stalker or a person that gets addicted and wants and wants, and in a way that can suffocate the other person. Pluto is the kind that will make a person go to the extreme, where if the person the Pluto person is obsessed with, marries someone else, the Pluto person will either break all ties or even break the person by destroying them.

Neptune softens the person so much that it makes a person deceive himself to the extent that a person evades reality at all cost, even if they know the partner is cheating on them, they often will ignore that. Neptune makes a person overcome boundaries to the extent that they are not able to differentiate between reality and being unrealistic.

It obviously also depends on how strong the planet is that the outer affects.

Another thing that I would like to say to especially astro-novices is that these outer planets (Ura, Nep and Plu) are strong in every sign. They are weak in no sign.
 

Animatrix

Well-known member
And you are, of course, always entitled to your own opinion.:sideways:

However, since you have so graciously asked me for mine, I have to beg to differ. No, Pluto does not deepen love in a good way. Venus by itself is most capable of love and the kind of love that is warm, giving and caring. Along with the likes of the Moon (emotions) and the Sun (life) as well as Mars (physical expression, not just sex, but also hugging and acting out of love) Venus does not need any outer planet whatsoever to complement it.

What Pluto does, I have already explained in my previous post. Pluto intensifies the attract to the extreme of making it a compulsive obsession and creates a stalker or a person that gets addicted and wants and wants, and in a way that can suffocate the other person. Pluto is the kind that will make a person go to the extreme, where if the person the Pluto person is obsessed with, marries someone else, the Pluto person will either break all ties or even break the person by destroying them.

Neptune softens the person so much that it makes a person deceive himself to the extent that a person evades reality at all cost, even if they know the partner is cheating on them, they often will ignore that. Neptune makes a person overcome boundaries to the extent that they are not able to differentiate between reality and being unrealistic.

It obviously also depends on how strong the planet is that the outer affects.

Another thing that I would like to say to especially astro-novices is that these outer planets (Ura, Nep and Plu) are strong in every sign. They are weak in no sign.
With all due respect, but I think you are wrong because you assume that planets are evil, that God is somehow evil and that the universe is designed in an evil way. A normal, healthy individual whose childhood and youth was secure, and whose temperament is stable and normal, yet have venus sextile pluto, will not be an obsessed stalker by any means, but on the contrary, Pluto can add a pleasant depth to love. Same with Neptune. The stalker/savior complexes are only manifested in persons who are not so evolved, persons with mental issues.

No planet is inherently evil, but the outer planets can be evil more so than the inner planets. Venus-Pluto in synastry is extremely common and not every couple is unhealthy, nor is every Plutonic individual a potential stalker. Real, transforming love must be deep, that is what makes it so great. That easy-going, caring love is boring.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
With all due respect, but I think you are wrong because you assume that planets are evil, that God is somehow evil and that the universe is designed in an evil way...
You see what your mind is able to see. Therefore you drag God into a discussion of outer planets and their energies and get personal. I expressed my opinion the way I see it right, and just the way I said you are entitled to your, BUT without getting personal and putting words in my mouth as to how I see God. I mean really?
 

Animatrix

Well-known member
You see what your mind is able to see. Therefore you drag God into a discussion of outer planets and their energies and get personal. I expressed my opinion the way I see it right, and just the way I said you are entitled to your, BUT without getting personal and putting words in my mouth as to how I see God. I mean really?

You said that the outer planets were evil but they aren't. They are like judges, they cause misery and pain for those who are out of tune with the universe. The planets are not inherently evil, but good. That is my opinion and I can argue for it.

It was well known to the astrologers of the old that sensitive people are more susceptible to the evil influence of planets, and that healthy people are not. A Saturn opposite Sun transit can be a little challenge followed by a great reward for a sound individual, for a wretch it can mean suicide. You see?
It's the same with natal aspects. A hard aspect between Pluto and Venus for example can mean prostitution, drugs, greed, perversion, love troubles, suicide, or it can be deep love and transforming relationships.

The problem with astrologers in my opinion is that they see only sensitive people. They study the charts of those who consult them, or of famous people. I study often the charts of the strongest, healthiest and soundest individuals and they do not feel their hard aspects the same way. Everything is working for good for those who are strong.
 
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aquarius7000

Well-known member
You said that the outer planets were evil but they aren't. They are like judges, they cause misery and pain for those who are out of tune with the universe. The planets are not inherently evil, but good. That is my opinion and I can argue for it...
Learn to argue without twisting what people say by replacing what they say with your own adjectives. I called the outer planets "more malefic than benefic". That comes from traditional astrology, and THAT is the one I practise. You replaced that by using "evil". Then you twist what I said even further by saying "you assume that planets are evil, that God is somehow evil and that the universe is designed in an evil way."

How well do you know me from some posts to start "assuming" anything? How fair is that. Have you ever read even one tradtional astrology book or a vedic astro book that doesn't even consider the outer planets and consider even the two moon nodes malefic? So, do all such astrologers practising traditional astrology or vedic astrology " assume that planets are evil, that God is somehow evil and that the universe is designed in an evil way." A pretty idiotic deduction. Did I attack you or get personal just because you do not see the outer planets the way I do? That you do not consider them malefic. Did I start adding my own adjectives to how you "assume God and the universe to be"? I mean can you not take someone else's opinion differing to yours, which is a pre-requisite if one wants to discuss things on a public forum. Honestly!! Just ignore my posts.
 

Animatrix

Well-known member
Learn to argue without twisting what people say by replacing what they say with your own adjectives. I called the outer planets "more malefic than benefic". That comes from traditional astrology, and THAT is the one I practise. You replaced that by using "evil". Then you twist what I said even further by saying "you assume that planets are evil, that God is somehow evil and that the universe is designed in an evil way."

How well do you know me from some posts to start "assuming" anything? How fair is that. Have you ever read even one tradtional astrology book or a vedic astro book that doesn't even consider the outer planets and consider even the two moon nodes malefic? So, do all such astrologers practising traditional astrology or vedic astrology " assume that planets are evil, that God is somehow evil and that the universe is designed in an evil way." A pretty idiotic deduction. Did I attack you or get personal just because you do not see the outer planets the way I do? That you do not consider them malefic. Did I start adding my own adjectives to how you "assume God and the universe to be"? I mean can you not take someone else's opinion differing to yours, which is a pre-requisite if one wants to discuss things on a public forum. Honestly!! Just ignore my posts.

Nah no need to ignore your posts I'm not at all upset and I'm sorry if I was a little tactless. It just bothers me so much with all this nonsense astrology where fatalism seem to be the rule. Everything in a chart can work for the good, it all depends on how evolved you are, spiritually, physically and mentally. This is not controversial. The problem is that people who are looking for advice, are people who are in problem already - and of course then their hard aspects are highlighted. My friend has venus square saturn aspect in his natal chart, but he is a very healthy individual; born by strong parents, and he has always exercised and eaten healthy; and he got happy relationships, and has always had. Why? Because this little influence of Saturn is working for the good to him; he is the master of his life and fate. He also has Venus conjunct Neptune, yet this man is by no means lacking in identity. His Venus is only afflicted, yet this man has and always had happy love relationships, and as far as I know, happy friendships as well. Everyone is born with "bad" and "good" aspects, yet some are unhappy, some are happy. Go out in the real world and study charts of STABLE people and study them how they behave and feel under adverse transits. It worries that people like you write on this forum making it sound like some people are doomed. Don't you feel any sense of responsibility? You are not only fatalistic, you are wrong also. A natal horoscope is like a genetic profile; it shows strengths and weaknesses, possibilities and pitfalls, but the weaknesses and pitfalls can be avoided, and they do not need to be expressed to any marked extent, if the individual takes care of himself on all levels.

Let me make this very clear to you, so that you understand:
Let's say you go to check your genetic profile. Your genetic profile is basically your natal horoscope, but all the more detailed and even more personal. The doctor tells you that you have a tendency to develop breast cancer. A TENDENCY. But you live healthy, eat healthy, exercise, don't smoke, don't drink, sleep well, are moderate in everything wholesome etc. You do not develop breast cancer then, or at least the risk is waaaaay smaller. But, it may mean that your breasts are more sensitive than another person's.

Same with the horoscope. You have a Venus opposite Pluto aspect for example; this points to a tendency, an inherent weakness that can be manifest if you are low etc. But it doesn't have to be. It really doesn't. Instead it can mean that you have very deep, life-changing (for the good) relationships, with intense physical attraction and passion.

It really all depends on the level of health. It's well known in psychiatry that the mentally ill are much more impressionable by atmospheric influences. Their moods change with the weather, much more than for a "normal" individual. An old astrologer I read worked with criminals; and he noticed that they were much more sensitive to hard aspects from Mars - they became MUCH more aggressive. The better and more refined the organism is, and this goes for people too, the stronger and more powerful are the good influences, and the weaker are the "evil" influences of the malefics, and sometimes they are not felt at all. The more fragile the nervous system, the harder it is to live under adverse transits, and the positive effect of Jupiter, Venus etc are much less. Therefore it is impossible to know with mathematical certainty how an individual will express his natal horoscope, or how he will feel during stressful transits, because it is impossible to know what level of development, the degree of health, the native has. I have studied people at my workplace, and they are all sound individuals, and in some horoscopes I saw MANY stressful aspects yet these individuals were at the time happy; then I have seen people experiencing the same transits and they nearly died of depression. Let's use caution, that's all I'm asking for, take responsibility. The stars are not guiding our lives, they are regulating them. They are to be compared with the laws of gravity; they are simply there, they indicate what we can achieve, and what our "punishments" will be if we fail to live up to what universe demands of us. But it all comes down to the free will, and nothing else.
 

Chrysalis

Well-known member
Nah no need to ignore your posts I'm not at all upset and I'm sorry if I was a little tactless. It just bothers me so much with all this nonsense astrology where fatalism seem to be the rule. Everything in a chart can work for the good, it all depends on how evolved you are, spiritually, physically and mentally. This is not controversial. The problem is that people who are looking for advice, are people who are in problem already - and of course then their hard aspects are highlighted. My friend has venus square saturn aspect in his natal chart, but he is a very healthy individual; born by strong parents, and he has always exercised and eaten healthy; and he got happy relationships, and has always had. Why? Because this little influence of Saturn is working for the good to him; he is the master of his life and fate. He also has Venus conjunct Neptune, yet this man is by no means lacking in identity. His Venus is only afflicted, yet this man has and always had happy love relationships, and as far as I know, happy friendships as well. Everyone is born with "bad" and "good" aspects, yet some are unhappy, some are happy. Go out in the real world and study charts of STABLE people and study them how they behave and feel under adverse transits. It worries that people like you write on this forum making it sound like some people are doomed. Don't you feel any sense of responsibility? You are not only fatalistic, you are wrong also. A natal horoscope is like a genetic profile; it shows strengths and weaknesses, possibilities and pitfalls, but the weaknesses and pitfalls can be avoided, and they do not need to be expressed to any marked extent, if the individual takes care of himself on all levels.

Let me make this very clear to you, so that you understand:
Let's say you go to check your genetic profile. Your genetic profile is basically your natal horoscope, but all the more detailed and even more personal. The doctor tells you that you have a tendency to develop breast cancer. A TENDENCY. But you live healthy, eat healthy, exercise, don't smoke, don't drink, sleep well, are moderate in everything wholesome etc. You do not develop breast cancer then, or at least the risk is waaaaay smaller. But, it may mean that your breasts are more sensitive than another person's.

Same with the horoscope. You have a Venus opposite Pluto aspect for example; this points to a tendency, an inherent weakness that can be manifest if you are low etc. But it doesn't have to be. It really doesn't. Instead it can mean that you have very deep, life-changing (for the good) relationships, with intense physical attraction and passion.

It really all depends on the level of health. It's well known in psychiatry that the mentally ill are much more impressionable by atmospheric influences. Their moods change with the weather, much more than for a "normal" individual. An old astrologer I read worked with criminals; and he noticed that they were much more sensitive to hard aspects from Mars - they became MUCH more aggressive. The better and more refined the organism is, and this goes for people too, the stronger and more powerful are the good influences, and the weaker are the "evil" influences of the malefics, and sometimes they are not felt at all. The more fragile the nervous system, the harder it is to live under adverse transits, and the positive effect of Jupiter, Venus etc are much less. Therefore it is impossible to know with mathematical certainty how an individual will express his natal horoscope, or how he will feel during stressful transits, because it is impossible to know what level of development, the degree of health, the native has. I have studied people at my workplace, and they are all sound individuals, and in some horoscopes I saw MANY stressful aspects yet these individuals were at the time happy; then I have seen people experiencing the same transits and they nearly died of depression. Let's use caution, that's all I'm asking for, take responsibility. The stars are not guiding our lives, they are regulating them. They are to be compared with the laws of gravity; they are simply there, they indicate what we can achieve, and what our "punishments" will be if we fail to live up to what universe demands of us. But it all comes down to the free will, and nothing else.

I find this interesting what you're speaking of.:biggrin:

*highlights bold*
So are you saying that the people experiencing the transits who "nearly did of depression" were not spiritually healthy or bodily healthy ? so they in turn suffered from the transits.
And the people who also had these same stressful transit aspects and were happy, we're actually happy souls anyway so they didn't feel the stress from the transits like the others did ?
 
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