The clockwork of Astrology

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greybeard

Well-known member
No power whatsoever is required. As long as we think in terms of causality, we are stuck with power in some form. If we put causality aside, no power or means of transmission is needed.

Can we conceive of a system where planets and human affairs are correlated without causative linkage?
 
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petosiris

Banned
greybeard said:
No power whatsoever is required. As long as we think in terms of causality, we are stuck with power in some form. If we put causality aside, no power or means of transmission is needed.

Can we conceive of a system where planets and human affairs are correlated without causative linkage?
Click to expand...

What causes that system with such spectacular correlations? If it is correlation and not causation, then it just means there is a hidden variable that is causing both? What is it?

Siriusly, this thread made me lose all of my cazimi Mercury conjunct an angle brain cells.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
petosiris said:
What causes that system with such spectacular correlations? If it is correlation and not causation, then it just means there is a hidden variable that is causing both? What is it?

Siriusly, this thread made me lose all of my cazimi Mercury conjunct an angle brain cells.
Click to expand...

There really are gods and goddesses running our lives. There. Problem solved. May Zeus be with you.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
petosiris said:
Do you do astrology based on time or do you do it based on planetary placement? Yes, the second is related to the first, but you are looking for planetary causation. Astrology without causality is not astrology, because all the power is given to something else than the planets.
Click to expand...

Planetary placement is based on time. That much, we know for certain.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
A chart in-and-of itself isn't causal, it's descriptive. WHY it's able to be descriptive, is open to speculation. One possibility, the magnetic field, which includes gravity.
But the Why isn't necessary for drawing a chart and deciphering what it can describe.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
I interpret the "incline versus compel" quote to mean you don't have to follow what your chart has to say about you. A domineering family , for one example, can bully a child into a life that's in conflict with what the chart suggests would be much happier, more satisfying existence. Or, the culture one is born into can make it nearly impossible to "be oneself", based on one's chart description.
 
Therese

Therese

Well-known member
aldebaran said:
I wasn't reffering to yourself when I mentioned arrogance, I rather complimented you for the mention of this Hume passage.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I took that as sarcasm.

aldebaran said:
However, since Kant the practice of separating "mind things" and "outer things" has being kept, and that is an issue.
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We read Kant differently. The way I see it, he was moving away from Descartes' dualism, and exploring the connection between the two "realms". And then came Husserl, with his Cartesian Meditations, and his phenomenology. And so on.

I don't see Kant as "sending to garbage thousands of history of humankind science and philosophy".

Both the rationalists and the empiricists considered the mind as merely receptive; either because we were born with the ideas we have, or because it is just a passive vessel to gather data.

For me, the most interesting part in Kant is his argument about the mind actively participating in perception. Because we structure and organize our experiences in specific ways, we create our own reality (I was not surprized when I bumped into references to Kant's Critique in works discussing Buddhist epistemology). As for the rest, well, he was a child of his era, like we are of ours.

Anyway, back to astrology: the planets and the stars would exist without human consciousness, but astrology as a symbolical system would not. I don't think that where we are now, we should try and go back to arguing about whether the human mind received astrology directly from the gods (or we were born with it, etc), or it is simply a collection of observations (I already shared what I think about the cause-and-effect model). We are beyond that, beyond Kant, and beyond phenomenology.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
P

petosiris

Banned
JUPITERASC said:
It's as easy as drawing a chart of non-existant celestial bodies :smile:
planetary placement is based on visible planetary bodies
That much, we know for certain.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that david uses planetary placement calculations hidden in the bowels of his computer. It's easy to forget how astronomy works with software, then you start to think that input of time is all that is needed. :smile:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
petosiris said:
Keep in mind that david uses planetary placement calculations
hidden in the bowels of his computer.
It's easy to forget how astronomy works with software, then
you start to think that input of time is all that is needed. :smile:
Click to expand...
I've read posts on our forum requesting a reading
while freely admitting
to have arbitrarily cherry-picked their ascendant
based on their own opinion
and without applying any known method
such as for example Thrasyllus

Time is important
nevertheless
Time itself has a cause :smile:
and
on our particular planet
Time is reckoned by a diurnal revolution
of a conveniently rounded up twenty four hours
when in fact
from our perspective
the stars revolve around the Earth in only 23 hours and 56 minutes.
aka a sidereal day
hence
"clockwork" of anything - including Astrology
is based on chosen parameters
 
P

petosiris

Banned
JUPITERASC said:
I've read posts on our forum requesting a reading
while freely admitting
to have arbitrarily cherry-picked their ascendant
based on their own opinion
and without applying any known method
such as for example Thrasyllus

Time is important
nevertheless
Time itself has a cause :smile:
and
on our particular planet
Time is reckoned by a diurnal revolution
of a conveniently rounded up twenty four hours
when in fact
from our perspective
the stars revolve around the Earth in only 23 hours and 56 minutes.
aka a sidereal day
hence
"clockwork" of anything - including Astrology
is based on chosen parameters
Click to expand...

Indeed, time is very unreliable when it comes to natal charts. Nowadays I prefer Ptolemy's ''Animodar'' to Thrasyllus, but the principle is the same, birth can occur only under a certain configuration of the heavens. :smile:
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
14th Century William of Ockham

is credited with the "acams razor" hypothesis:
Simpler, with fewer assumptions, is better.
Click to expand...
Suicidal razor dude Ockham :smile:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Occam's razor aka Ockham's razor
is a principle from philosophy.
Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence
In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually correct.
Another way of saying it
is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
petosiris said:
Indeed, time is very unreliable when it comes to natal charts.
Click to expand...
Quite :smile:

petosiris said:
Nowadays I prefer Ptolemy's ''Animodar'' to Thrasyllus, but
the principle is the same, birth can occur only
under a certain configuration of the heavens. :smile:
Click to expand...
so then I'm posting a neat illustration of the ANIMODAR METHOD
extrapolated from another thread on our forum
that you may appreciate


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar
One last thing, chart rectification. How does this work? Could you show me?

Now that I have figured out the Animodar sure.

I'll use Professor Gumby's chart to keep it simple. That chart is a Preventional Chart. How do we know? Because the Moon is applying to the conjunction of the Sun having completed its opposition to the Sun. So we need to cast a Lunation Chart for the Full Moon prior to birth (we would cast a Lunation Chart for the New Moon if the chart would be Conjunctional).

attachment.php


We use the Light Above Horizon for Full Moon Lunation Charts (and that would include a Lunar Eclipse for this purpose). That is the Sun at 28° Taurus 07'.

Which Planet has the greatest Dignity in the Sun? Venus does. Venus is the Sign Ruler and Venus is the Earth Sect Triplicity Ruler.

Now, switch back to the Natal Chart and look at Venus. To which is Venus closer in Degrees, the Ascendant or the Midheaven? Obviously the Midheaven at 1° Virgo 31'.

Yes, there are 30° in Virgo, but at Latitude 39°N07' how many degrees actually cross over the Midheaven as the Ascendant crosses the Horizon?

Look at the Right Ascensions of the Midheaven. We want the full 30° of Virgo so we subtract the Right Ascension at 0° Libra from the Right Ascension at 0° Virgo.

180°00' = 0° Libra at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0° Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
xxxxxxx

179°60'
152°05'
-------
027°55'

Now, the Midheaven is at 01°Virgo31' so how much Right Ascension is that?

153°32' = 1°31' Virgo at 39°N07'
152°05' = 0°00' Virgo at 39°N07'
-------
001°27'

We need the Hourly Distance of Venus.

Venus is at 4° Cancer 39'. Her Right Ascension is 95°04 and her Oblique Ascension is 74°30.

The Ascensional Difference is the Right Ascension minus the Oblique Ascension:

AD[Venus] = 95°04' - 74°30'

AD[Venus] = 20°34'

Venus is out-of-Bounds in this chart with a Declination of 24°N54' so we add the Ascensional Difference to 90° giving us 110°34' for the Semi-Diurnal Arc (we would subtract if the Declination was Negative and we would reverse that for those living in the Southern Hemisphere).

The Temporal Hours will be the Semi-Diurnal Arc divided by 6:

TH[Venus] = 110°34 / 6 = 18°25'

Then to find the Hourly Distance, we divide the Meridian Distance by 18°25'

How far away is Venus from the Midheaven by Right Ascension? We just subtract the RA of Venus from the Right Ascension of the Midheaven (RAMC).

Meridian Distance = 153°32' - 95°04'

Meridian Distance = 58°28'

Now we divide the Meridian Distance by the Temporal Hours to get the Hourly Distance

HD[Venus] = 58°28' / 18°25'

HD[Venus]= 3°10'

The Hourly Distance tells you the number of Houses away from the Meridian (either the MC or the IC) that a Planet is and that is what the whole number represents, and the fractional part is how far away from the Cusp of the House that Venus is.

Each House is essentially 2 Diurnal Hours. Think of the chart as a clock where the Ascendant is 6:00 AM so then 3 Houses or 6 Hours (3 * 2 = 6) later it is 12:00 PM and that is the Midheaven and the 6 Hours later is the Descendant at 6:00 PM and then 6 Hours later is the Nadir/IC at 12:00 AM and then we've come full circle back to the Ascendant at 6:00 AM in a 24-Hour period.

We just have to set up a simple proportion or a ratio:

27°55' : 2 = 1°27' : X

From our high school math, we know to cross-multiply and divide, and so we have:

2 * 1°27' / 27°55' = X

It's easier to use decimal notation:

2 * 1.45 / 27.91666 = X

2.9 / 27.91666 = X

0.03582 = X

So, um, what exactly is "0.03582" in Degrees?

It is less than 1°. That is what the big fat "0" means.

Let's multiply by 60 to convert to minutes:

60 * 0.03582 = 2.1492

That gives us 0°2.1492' of arc.

Multiply the 0.1492 * 60 = 8"

So there is a difference of 0°02'08"

Can we round that off? Sure, let's call it 0°02'

Now, there are 24 Hours in one day and 360° in the Zodiac Circle.

How many Degrees are in 1 Hour?

Simple, 360 / 24 = 15° and you might notice the longitudinal meridians around Earth are 0° 15° 30° etc and most of the Time Zones are based on those.

If there are 15° in 1 Hour, how many Degrees are in 1 Minute?

Simple, 15° in 60 Minutes or 1° every 4 Minutes.

And that is 30' every 2 Minutes or 15' every Minute/60 Seconds or 1' every 4 seconds.

So my birth time is off by about 8 or 9 seconds or so.

Now, if I was the Anal Retentive Astrologer, I would rip everything up, chuck it out the window and start with a whole new chart and post 30 "Read My Chart" threads about the new birth time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar
Thanks for the help. I'll pay you back one day

Pay it forward. Attached Images
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Crosby Wealth.jpg (52.2 KB, 130 views)
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Gumby Wealth.jpg (51.4 KB, 96 views)
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Gumby Full Moon.jpg (37.5 KB, 96 views)
__________________
Four Modern Astrologers said Serial Killer John Wayne Gacy: "…can be very good with kids..." "...just your presence would be beneficial to other people..." "...a fairly well-rounded personality...you can offer a good role model..." "You have an instinctive awareness and your uninhibited response to life can refresh and gladden whomever you encounter."

Traditional Astrology Says: "...shows a strange mind and very wicked."

Gacy received 12 Death and 21 Life sentences for the murder of 33 boys.
 
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