The Birth Chart of Jesus? Revised

[piercethevale]

I had to create this thread as the original lost the image of the birth chart and the new format wouldn't allow me to reinsert it.

Please note: I apologize for having deleted most of this thread as it was in original form. At the time I did so I was determined to leave this forum and to never return and there were, at the time, too many trolls and as I no longer wanted to post at this forum and felt my energies would be better served elsewhere I wasn't going to return here solely to deal with them, thanks...piercethevale, aka Dave Mastry, aka Devananda



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Greetings.

Below is an image of a copy of the natal chart that I contend is that of Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth.

It is by the date that Edgar Cayce gave as the date of birth and is the only date that Edgar Cayce ever gave as the date of birth. I've argued with at least 4 dozen of more challenges to that fact in the last ten years and if you wish to contest that He gave some other date I suggest that you reread the source material, i.e the specific reading that Edgar gave in which you believe he gave a different date, or another date in addition to the one I have used, because Edgar didn't. Reread it a third time a fourth time, whatever.... it doesn't change a thing. You are misunderstanding what Edgar stated and most likely are having a hard time understanding the stilted manner of speaking he had used when in trance.



Edgar was once asked, while He was in a trance if He could speak in a more colloquial manner so as to be better understood. Edgar's reply was "Better ye thy understanding."

Now, do you understand what I'm getting at here?





I will be in the process of revising this thread and restoring an original introduction here in this first post... as it once had but I stupidly deleted without thinking the whole thing through.



The chart below is the original chart. It is dated September 22, 2010, but it is true to the original first chart ever produced on November 7, 2004.



Sometime not long after I made this chart below, at astrodienst, they started changing the computer program on a continuous basis. It was only noticeable for dates very distant in the past. ... particularly the date I produced the chart for, i.e. April 2 in the year 3 A.D. Gregorian calendar. Edgar's actual words were "He was born on the nineteenth day of March. By the Julian Calendar, it was in the year Four. From the Hebrew (or Mosaic) Calendar, it was in the year eighteen hundred and ninety-nine." reading # 587



So why am I using the year 3? Because there were two ways of reckoning what the first year was. Some said (and still do) it to be the first full year after his birth beginning on New Years Day, which to them was January 1st (as most everyone took the Church's word for it that December 25th was the correct day of birth at that time) others claim that the first year is the year He was born in regardless of how late in the year it was.

But the real trick here is knowing that in those days most all of the Roman citizenry, and the Roman officials, considered April 1st as the first day of a New Year. The gov't calendar used a fiscal year and that held that New Years Day was January 1st, I believe..or it may have been a different date in Jan., the point is that the one day all the people, in general, observed and held their New Years festivities by ...and so did all the politicians of Rome, as no one wants to be left out of a good party... was April 1st.



So because the Gregorian Calendar must add a day every new century that is divisible by 4, When Pope Gregory started his Calendar it was 1582 and at the time of the Popes' action March 19th, in the year 3 A.D., was then progressed to March 31, 3 A.D.

In the year 1600 another day was added making it April 1st and by the common Roman Julian Calendar that observed April 1st as the first day of a New Year, His birth could, from that day forward, be said to have actually occurred in the 4th year by the Julian Calendar as it was commonly observed among the peoples of Rome.



When I first began this project, in 2001, I was unaware of these facts and also ignorant of the fact that another day had to be added as of the year 2000, and that March 19th by the Julian Calendar was from then on April 2nd. It wasn't until 2003 that I became aware of these facts. In the Year 2400 the date will change to April 3rd.





Astrodienst has "adjusted'' something numerous times now since 2004. I have printed charts from as far back as 2004 and 2005 and the oldest that remains in my computer files is from November 2009. Sometime in 2012 astrodienst had tweaked the figures a little bit as to where the Sun, Merc. and Venus had added 02", the Moon 21", Mars 11" and Jupiter 01" and Uranus, Neptune and Pluto remained the same. I have a chart from July 2012 that shows all that... but it never effected anything that which had given me cause to claim it to be the natal birth chart of Yeshu'a. They had been using a program they got from JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena California) which is so highly accurate that one can calculate exactly where a satellite must be in ten years and so many months, days and right down to the moment it needs to be withing "X" amount of miles from the surface of one of Neptune's Moons. Although the creator of the program did allow a certain amount of "fudge factor " for the adjustment of some of the planets and the luminaries and as for Pluto it was given the biggest allowance and I figure that was for the reason it still hadn't been observed long enough by 1992, when the program was created (I believe that is the correct year...it could be give or take a year or two. That specific info is available on the internet if you are that interested in precise facts regarding that issue. I'm trying to expedite this process of restoring a workable and informative intro to the thread and it isn't that important to spend the half hour or so it would take to retrieve it.) The allowance Pluto was given as to adding as much as up to, or as much as less than, but no more or less than, was given as 00* 01' 59".



In the chart below you will notice that Pluto was given to be at 00* Libra 58' 52". Astrodienst claims it started using an entirely new computer ephemeris sometime in either late 2012 or in 2013, I forget exactly when, and that this new program is based on a more recent JPL computer program and, also, that Pluto is still allowed the exact same amount of adjustment.

Well, astrodienst did adjust Pluto, they added the maximum allowance of 00* 01' 59" to it's position and now list it at 01* Libra 00' 51" which messes with my explanation as it is essential that Pluto was in the 1st degree of Libra and not the 2nd as they presently have it. One might think that a planet moved a mere 00* 01 59" isn't really very much but considering how far Pluto is from the Sun and the full length of one complete orbit of Pluto around the Sun it amounts to (and I had the exact figures ...or as close as I could calculate that distance, but can't find them right at this moment... let me just say that it was in the tens of millions of miles and may have in fact been in the hundreds of millions of miles... I'll get that exact, or as close as I can possibly be to exact, figure here at a later date.) an enormous amount of miles... so much in a distance that if the Earth were moved as much toward the Sun this planet would be a ball of charcoal. Edit: July 18, 2020/ I have those figures for as to how far astrodienst effectively moved Pluto in miles when they altered its position by 00* 01' 59". Going by the est. average speed of Pluto in it s orbit, 4.743 km/s and the estimated orbit period of 247.94 years [but they also give 247.68 and one is in Julian years the other I believe is in Gregorian ...and there is a difference. Astronomers use Julian, but it is a variable from century to century. So I used the former.] That distance in miles comes to, approximately, 2,120,194.71 miles. While it isn't as much as I thought I had remembered and wouldn't turn the Earth into a lump of charcoal if moved so much towards the Sun... [For a comparison, Venus is about 68 million miles away from Earth at its closest.] it is substantial and considering that NASA used the same original program that astrodienst saw reason to change, when NASA launched its New Horizons space probe to Pluto in 2006, and that it came within 7,750 miles to Pluto, they would've been a long way off had they adjusted Pluto's positions as astrodienst has done.



I made the world aware of this chart on Dec 22, 2005 on a nationally broadcast radio program. "The Rick Barber" program which used to air on KOA A.M. out of Denver, Colorado. I was the invited guest that night and spoke for an hour about the chart. The very next convention of the I.A.U. Pluto was demoted to less than planetary status in what has to be one of the most obvious desperate, clandestine, and underhanded moves ever pulled by any group so as to ensure just enough votes to achieve their purpose. If you read an accounting of the proceedings of Pluto's demotion by the I.A.U. you can learn of the details and easily see that something was far amiss.

 

[piercethevale]

Why? Well there are a number of astronomers that have been making some serious coin with their explanations for the Star of Bethlehem, the astronomer Dr. Molnar comes immediately to mind. Most everyone of them attributes it to that Stellium in, when was it? 6 or 7 B.C.? I wrote Dr. Molnar and told him that the chart made no astrological sense as to a person such as Yeshu'a/Jesus was said to have been. His reply to me was that I didn't understand "Historiography".

I wrote that I understood something far more reliable than questionable 'Historiography" in that I understood the universal symbolism of Astrology.

...and least not forget that the Swiss have been providing free personal bodyguards to the Pope for centuries.

The chart demonstrates that He was born a man, a condition of the universe, but it also demonstrates how and why He became whom he did become, that is a totally spiritually evolved human being that became the next higher order of entity... as Pluto conjunct the Ascendant and the Ascendant being the 1st degree of Libra which has the Sabian Symbol representing a perfect archetype. He became One with the Christ as the Gnostic Christians will say... We are all Sons and Daughters of God and just like Yeshu'a ben David our birth chart is our Divine Blueprint...You are a Divine creation of the Universe, just as was the 'Man from Nazareth', as was Ram of India before him, as was the Buddha et al.



The Birth Chart of Yeshu'a ben David aka Jesus of Nazareth

In Dane Rudhyar's book "An Astrological Mandala". Rudhyar goes on to explain the following. The "Cross", that is the axis, formed by the horizon and the meridian of one's birth chart, create four points, and these four points, he interprets, are the "WHAT", "WHERE-TO", "HOW" and "WHY" of one's being. I would like to add here that as for, "WHERE-TO" To', I sometimes re-interpret as either "WHAT-TO" or "WHOM-TO". Rudhyar also wrote, inferring, that an axis of perfect symmetry, i.e., 90° between all four axis points that include the four points of the Zodiac, Aries Libra, Cancer and Capricorn, all in the first degree, would have been involved in the birth chart of Yeshua of Nazareth.



Those four degrees of the Zodiac are associated with the following Sabian Symbols as described by Dane in his book thus...



Aries 1°, "A Woman Just Risen From The Sea, A Seal Is Embracing Her. Keynote: Emergence of new forms and of the potentiality of consciousness." (Keywords) "IMPULSE TO BE."



Rudhyar infered that Aries 01* would be the Ascendant found on the birth chart of Jesus/Yeshu'a. So, thus naturally, the infered Descendant is Libra 01*

[ibid.]



Libra 1° "In A Collection Of Perfect Specimens Of Many Biological Forms, A Butterfly Displays The Beauty Of Its Wings, Its Body Impaled By A Fine Dart. Keynote: The immortal archetypal reality that a perfect and dedicated life reveals."



Dane wrote the following as part of the interpretation: [ibid.]

"...the original notation of what the clairvoyant had seen indicated 'a butterfly made perfect by a dart through it', suggesting a process of perfection through sacrifice."



Dane concluded his interpretation with the following words: [ibid.]

"This is the symbolical Transfiguration at the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus the Son of Man was impaled by the ray of the divine light, making him a son of God. It was at this very moment that he learned of the crucifixion awaiting him.Thus the merely human individual is [Rudhyars keywords] MADE SACRED becoming the pure embodiment of an archetype."



The other half of the birth chart axis, the line created by the nadir and the mid-haven, the "HOW" and "WHY" of the birth chart was proposed, by Rudhyar, to consist of the first degree of Capricorn and the first degree of Cancer. Rudhyar, in his book "An Astrological Mandala" infers that first degree of Cancer is the degree of the zodiac that is the Nadir of the birth chart of Jesus. The description for the first degree of Cancer is as follows [ibid.]:

"On A Ship, The Sailors Lower An Old Flag And Raise A New One. Keynote: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return." [Rudhyar's keyword] "REORIENTATION"



Rudhyar was thus proposing that the HOW of Jesus' life mission would be accomplished by becoming the new symbol of allegiance.



For the mid-haven Rudhyar proposed the first degree of Capricorn [ibid.]. "An Indian Chief Claims Power From The Assembled Tribe. Keynote: The power and responsibility implied in any claim for leadership." ...and Dane finished his summary on this symbol by writing: ". It refers to the capacity latent in every individual to claim and assume AUTHORITY in a vital group-situation."



Thus Rudhyar proposed, even though he may have thought differently privately, that the axis of Jesus's birth chart would show his "WHO" to be just another life form emerging into this world [i.e. Aries 1*], His "WHERE-TO", i.e. what he was to become, the perfect form of man [i.e. Libra 1*]. The true birth chart that has been produced however shows, as Cayce and many other spiritual teachers have taught, that Jesus was born the perfect form of man, and through his life by example, he demonstrated the path to the next step in spiritual/physical evolution, a higher, more spiritually evolved life form. I also believe that when Pluto [the planet of 'Transformation"] is found exactly conjunct the ascendant, transformation [i.e. the transition from "WHO" to "WHOM-TO"] is assured somehow or, at the very least, the catalyst is brought to bear on the individual in question. As for the other half of the axis. It's apparent that Rudhyar proposed that how Jesus was to accomplish his mission, his dharma, was by becoming the new symbol or icon of allegiance represented by, the flag the sailors are raising symbolically, the first degree of Cancer. And as for the "WHY" of Rudhyar's proposed chart for Jesus it was to establish leadership over various groups of belief. [Or the various sects of Judaism, monotheism and or remnant religions that had the Sun prayers at their most ancient core.] Whereas in the true birth chart, I propose, that is Yeshu'a's, this cause and purpose is the same only the position of the two degrees, at the nadir and the mid-haven, are switched.



This is due to an understanding, that came some time after my book was published, that the first degree in the process of transformation is actually Virgo 30* and it culminates with Libra 01* That is to say, that the Theosophists, and their Esoteric Astrology, has it partially correct. The Zodiac should be followed in the opposite direction from that as is practiced by "Traditional" Astrologers and thus the Sabian Symbols represent a process of spiritual transformation when read in that clockwise direction around a chart that begins at Virgo 30*. What the Theosophists failed to realize is that the process begins at Virgo 30* and not Aries 01* but then, in their defense,. they never adopted the Sabian Symbols as presented and interpreted by Dane Rudhyar or even those as given by Marc Edmond Jones...at least not to my knowledge. [Those of Jones and Rudhyar are essentially the same. I do know that Rudhyar noticed a few that didn't seem to fit and that He contacted the clairvoyant, Elsie Wheeler, to find out if his suspicions were correct in that He believed Marc to have substituted a few to fit his own preconceived idea of what they would represent, by ascertaining the genuine symbols as she first "saw" them if they were still available, and discover if Marc had altered some as He suspected. To his joy Dane learned that Miss Wheeler had the original notations of her descriptions of the symbols, in her exact words, that Marc had written down. He was correct, Marc had altered a few. I won't go into the details of what is written about what followed between Marc and Dane or what I deduced from "reading between the lines" of that account, just let it suffice to say that Dane was eventually given permission, by Mr Jones, to alter any that Dane saw fit to so as to make them more understandable by the general public. One can obtain a set of both sets of Sabian Symbols, those as originally given by Marc, and a copy of Dane's work, and compare them for your self if you are that interested or have any concerns. I believe that Marc disposed of the set He altered and published them just as Elsie actually gave for the descriptions of them but I'm not certain of that. However, I do know Dane's background of studies in Jungian psychology, Vedic philosophy, Zen Buddhism and music {and that is but a partial list of what all, and whom, He had studied} prior to his studies of astrology I believe Dane to have been the most preeminently qualified person alive at the time to be the person that was to truly understand, interpret, and write about the Sabian Symbols as re-ascertained by Elsie Wheeler and present them to the world. I have compared the two and have found Rudhyar's work to be vastly superior, as to those issued by Marc Edmond Jones, for the understanding and utilization when applied to astrology.]

 

[piercethevale]

It has been traditionally accepted by astrologers that this evolutionary process, represented by the 360 Sabian symbols begins with the first degree of Aries, the emerging life form, and completes the cycle of 360 stages of transformation with the 30th degree of Pisces. The 30th degree of Pisces symbol is: [ibid.] "A Majestic Rock Formation Resembling A Face Is Idealized By A Boy Who Takes It As His Ideal Of Greatness, And As He Grows Up, Begins To Look Like It." Rudhyar's Keynote on this symbol: "The power of clearly visualized ideals to mold the life of the visualizer." Rudhyar's summation on this symbol: "This is the last stage of the last scene of the great ritual play of cyclic transformations. It brings to us a realization of the power of archetypes as factors conditioning life processes. Thus we could use as a final Keyword: Archetypalization."

In Rudhyar's book on the Sabian symbols, he inferred that the first degree of Aries will be found to be the ascendant on the birth chart of Jesus. Dane was thus stating that the "WHO" of the birth chart would be an emerging life form, and the "WHERE-TO" [the first degree of Libra] would be the perfect form of man.



If one were to meditate on this process for a moment and picture an emerging biological life form [as represented by the Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Aries] becoming, through the cyclic process of completing the following 359 degrees of the Zodiac, as symbolically represented by the 30th degree of Pisces. One understands that, what is represented by, this process is one of becoming more immersed in materiality, represented by the rock face in the symbol for the last degree of Pisces.



But what actually occurred, and the actual template of being, that Jesus was given, is the opposite. His "WHO" is the perfect form of man and his "WHERE-TO" the next emerging life form. A higher life form. The next step in spiritual evolution. I believe that there is another process through the Sabian symbols that begins with the thirtieth degree of Virgo and culminates with the first degree of Libra. The symbol for, which is: [ibid.] "Totally Intent Upon Completing An Immediate Task, A Man Is Deaf To Any Allurement." Rudhyar's Keynote: "The total concentration required for reaching any spiritual goal." Rudhyar's summation: "This is the culminating step. The decision that results from a myriad of small choices. Still, a shadow of hesitation can remain. Attention may be distracted from the Now by a voice from the past glamorizing some old memory. The outer doors of perception and thought must be closed, so the soul can complete its (Dane's very significant Keywords for this degree) CONQUEST OF ILLUSION."



Thus there are two ways of proceeding through the Sabian Symbols, the zodiac, [and maybe more] one beginning with the first degree of Aries and ending with the last degree of Pisces, becoming more immersed in the material, in Maya. The other process begins with the last degree of Virgo and thus, freeing oneself from the illusion, from materiality, from Maya, 'THE ILLUSION'. As Dane hinted in numerous books and articles. "The True Path of Discipleship begins in Virgo" It is the last degree of Virgo that is the first step...the beginning of "THE CONQUEST OF ILLUSION" this chart I propose as the correct birth chart for Yeshu'a has the Ascendant conjunct the first degree of Libra, and his Moon conjunct the last degree of Virgo, Yeshu'a demonstrates that he was here as the perfect form of man, becoming the next higher evolved life form, and conquering the illusion of Maya. This is possibly also another way of understanding and putting into context his statement. " I am the first and the last." The first degree of the process, i.e. Virgo 30*, [The Conquest of Illusion {Maya}], and the last degree of the process, i.e. Libra 01* [the Perfect Form {or Archetype} Of Man].



Using what is known as the 'day formula' for the Part of Fortune, as my tried and true and trusted Clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, says is the only correct formula for the Part of Fortune regardless of the time of day. Thus the Part of Fortune derived from this chart is at 18° Pisces 16' 08", that is to say in the 19th degree of Pisces. The symbol for which is [ibid.] "A Master Instructs His Disciple". What could be more appropriate of the 360 symbols that are to be found in the Zodiac, for the one to represent additionally 'HOW' The Master was to best achieve his mission or dharma?



The 12th House cusp, as my friend Suryakant's chart had shown me, represents the answer to the Worlds' problems as that person, whose chart it is, will see it and communicate it to the world. The 12th House cusp for this chart is 3° Virgo, 14 minutes, the fourth degree of Virgo, the symbol for which is [ibid.] "Black and White Children Play Together Happily". Rudhyar's Keyword for this symbol is "Brotherhood". Again, of the entire 360 symbols, none could be more appropriate for what Yeshu'a's consistent answer was in reference to the Worlds' problems.



The Part of Fortune derived from this chart (always use the diurnal formula...night births make no difference.) is at

18* Pisces 16' 07"... i.e. the 19th degree of Pisces. By Sabian Symbol we find what symbolically must be "put into play" in order to assure the most fortuitous circumstances in order to achieve the journey from "WHO" (the Asc.) to "WHERE-TO" (the Desc.)...to achieve that which is given symbolically as the Part of Destiny.



From Dane Rudhyar we get the answer (ibid.)



"PISCES 19°: A MASTER INSTRUCTING HIS DISCIPLE.

KEYNOTE: The transfer of power and knowledge which keeps the original spiritual and creative Impulse of the cycle active and undeviated.



The Hindu ideal of the sacred relationship between guru and chela (disciple) has of late become familiar to a vast number of young and not-so-young people. The doctrine of 'the Apostolic succession' in the Roman Catholic Church has a similar significance. The Power and archetypal knowledge released 'in the beginning' of any cycle (or at 'Creation') must be perpetuated until the very Last Day — the Omega state of which Teilhard de Chardin glowingly speaks. This Power is the 'self' of the cyclic manifestation, the unchanging Tone (AUM) of all existences within this cycle. It can be transmitted from master to disciple at the latter's 'Initiation'. It must be so transmitted for when the line of transmission (in Sanskrit, guruampara) is discontinued, the cyclic process begins to collapse in futility and spiritual darkness.



This fourth stage symbol gives us a clue to the supreme technique necessary for the continuation of all manifestations of power and spiritual understanding. The transmission is from person to person; it follows a general, unchanging pattern, yet it operates in terms of particular and individual circumstances. Keyword: INVESTITURE."



Perfect...wouldn't you say?



The cusp of ones natal 12th House symbolically represents what your answer is to the greatest problem that world society faces as a whole... this natal chart has the 4th deg. of Virgo at that cusp.

(ibid.)



"VIRGO 4°: BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN PLAY TOGETHER HAPPILY.

KEYNOTE: The overcoming of socio-cultural prejudices.



Freedom from all the forms, biases and idiosyncrasies of the particular culture and class in which one has been born and educated is a sine qua non of the consciousness truly 'on the Path', The ideal of universal brotherhood underlies all great spiritual teachings, for they all are like branches of the One Tree, Man, in his divine state. This does not mean there are no racial differences, but rather that these differences have a functional value in terms of the whole organism of Man — and of the planet Earth.



At this fourth stage the basic technique which applies to all truly spiritual progress is clearly stated. Every human being should be seen, approached and warmly met as a 'child of God', or in less religious terms as an exemplar of Man. Such a status gives to every social and interpersonal group the character of a BROTHERHOOD."



Just absolutely awesome...in my humble opinion...

 

[piercethevale]

I wish to include another one of the Astrological Parts derived from this chart in this first post and hopefully it'll fit the limit on text per post.



The Part of Catastrophe is derived from the Formula Asc. + Uranus - Sun. In this chart we find that to be at 27* Virgo 03' 13". What has been discovered (or revealed as actually it was never lost... now was it?) that the "Catastrophe" revealed by the Sabian Symbol found for the degree of the Zodiac it is in is a necessary thing in ones life that will occur at some point. The advantage here in knowing what it is early enough in ones life is that "forewarned is forearmed". By knowing about it ahead of time one is given the opportunity to mitigate the damage... possibly avoid any real damage all together.



By Dane's wonderful tome we find that to be (ibid.)



"VIRGO 28°: A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER.

KEYNOTE: The sheer power of personality in times that call for decision.



Whether at the religious or at the socio-political and cultural level there comes a time when obsolescent patterns of order and cultural refinement have to be radically and relentlessly challenged. Catabolic personages emerge to seize power and dictate decisions that alter the structures of society; or within an individual life, an intense urge for cathartic changes mobilizes the will, and traumatic decisions are made. At such times, the issue has to be met and, ruthless as the power may appear, it must be accepted.



At this third stage of the thirty-sixth sequence we face the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation. Existence is motion. No static formation, however beautiful and inspiring, can remain long unchallenged. Everything bows to THE POWER OF THE WILL — divine, executively human, or Satanic."



As Dane so brilliantly interpreted (or was divinely guided...?) and wrote..."the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation." it seems that there wasn't much opportunity to mitigate much for Yeshu'a's sake. He may have known just how very much it was a necessity and un-postponable and, possibly, Judas knew of this too.

It has been said by some that Judas was the most knowledgeable of all the disciples and that He understood why He had to "betray" Yeshu'a to the authorities.



One very likely reason, I believe given their past history of the religious and political "authorities" in that area from the time of Moses to the days of Yeshu'a, is likely that the Romans threatened to kill every male Jew between certain ages in a hundred, or so, mile radius in order to ensure that they put a stop to his growing ministry. If you'll recall the story of Spartacus...when it came time for Spartacus to give himself up...everyone was suddenly Spartacus.



I have a theory that Judas was not an outsider, as most will have us believe, but in fact was an Essene and was Mary's younger brother... it is said that Jesus/Yeshu'a and Judas looked so much alike that at times even the disciples couldn't tell them apart.

That Judas had been an Essene would give great cause to the legend that He understood the teachings of Yeshu'a far better than any of the other disciples. I think He was part of the entourage in order to "keep an eye on him" for Mary's sake.[A theory I'm now very doubtful of. ptv 11/6/2020]



At this point I would like to discuss matrices.



The six pointed star, or Magen David is made up of two interlaced equilateral triangles. According to Rudhyar, "the trine always presents a challenge to have a vision of what is possible.' He also said, it allows one to be "imbued with a sense of purpose." The six pointed matrix allows one to take that vision, and sense of purpose, and use it with "adequate management and organizational genius."



Dane Rudhyar has, to my knowledge, at least implied that the Magen David was prophesied or expected to appear in the birth chart of the Messiah. This is what I was looking for when I first started using astrological web sites and their computer ephemerices. A Rabbi, the late Dr. Joel Dobin, also infers it in his book "Kabbalistic Astrology" and I have come across other such inferrences, from other Rabbis, over the years



I found no possible six-point matrix for the date Edgar Cayce gave as the true birth time. I did find however, an incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart that I propose is the correct one for Jesus. And this matrix, in fact, involves every other point of a Grand Septile matrix. Starting with the Ascendant and traveling in either direction, [i.e. clockwise or counter-clockwise], around the chart the septile points would be every 51.428571°. An irrational number, which interestingly enough, is the exact angle of the side of the Great Pyramid. Very little is known about the septile and much less the Grand Septile matrix. To my knowledge, the only thing Rudhyar ever really commented about on this aspect is that, according to ancient lore, it is an aspect of fatality. Now I propose using the ascendant as the basis or the starting point of this matrix. Because Pluto is a little past the ascendant and the moon is just before the ascendant. There is a much larger allowable orb than the 2° that is normally allowed to either side for this aspect. An allowance of an extra 45 minutes of a degree to either side is what I estimate. Thus, these points, from [1]; Pluto clockwise around the chart would be at [2] nine + degrees Leo; [3] just about exactly 18° Gemini; [4] 26 + degrees Aries; [5] between 5 and 6° Pisces; [6] approximately 14° Capricorn and [7] just a little more than 22° Scorpio.



As to the construct of the incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart, you'll find that after the conjunction of Pluto and the Moon on the Ascendant that there is to be found Mars at 18° 56 minutes Gemini on one of the other seven points. Two of the other points are occupied by Venus at 6° 47 minutes Pisces and Neptune at 24° 26 minutes Scorpio. The missing points on the septile matrix in the birth chart of Jesus, those at Leo, Aries and Capricorn are found to have been completed by transit on the Monday after, what was the first Easter Sunday. If my proposed birth time for Jesus is correct, then by all given history. The first Easter Sunday would have been April 15 in the year 35 AD by the Gregorian calendar. From the Astrodienst computer we find these missing points completed at approximately 2:00 P.M. the next day, Monday, following. At that time and date the Sun was in the 26th degree of Aries, the Moon in the 14th degree of Capricorn, and Saturn and Jupiter, conjunct, at a little more than 12° Leo.



Below is the chart for...

The Day after the Sunday of the Crucifixion... the completion of the Septile matrix

The time of day given in the above chart is my arbitrary choice.... the exact time was decisive according to Gods' Will







Lots more to continue with in the posts ahead (although some of the originals were deleted some years ago...as I was in the late planning stage of leaving this forum forever and felt it best to take certain threads with me rather than leave them behind to be trashed by trolls.) ptv



_______________

 

[dr. farr]

Thank you for all the creative effort and knowledge which you have shared in this most interesting hypothesis!

 

[piercethevale]

Thank you for all the creative effort and knowledge which you have shared in this most interesting hypothesis!

Thank you, Dr Farr, but it is not a hypothesis, not the date, time, and location of the birth and not that of whose natal chart it is. As I've been saying, if the methods and techniques of astrological interpretation lead you to believe this is not that chart of the Man, rethink your astrology. If what you believe to have been about the man makes you disbelieve this could be His natal chart, then rethink the Man..
I am only a messenger sent by the White Lodge. I was only given the duty of delivering it, not explaining it as I myself only understand it to a certain threshold
If anyone thinks this is a fraudulent effort on my part to achieve some sort of fame and, or, fortune, they only need look at my life to date and see that I'm now old, and in poverty, and couldn't give hoot about either, although I am looking for less expensive environs to live out my last years. Thus, a little extra income wouldn't hurt. I have made no money from the book I wrote other than the one personal copy I sold fourteen years ago to someone that insisted on paying the publishers suggested retail price. Other than that I'm out quite a few thousand dollars in this effort. I willingly violated the contract with my publisher by posting any information in the book online.
I had a little experience with the fame part, in that someone I met and told about this effort to, looked me up on the internet and then ran into me months later. It was a rather embarrassing and very awkward encounter for me made all the more difficult for me to handle as this person is a woman of gorgeous beauty in her mid thirties. I ended up having to ditch her. That's not how I want to live my life. Sara, if you are reading this please accept my apology. I couldn't handle it.
There is a revised edition in the hands of the publisher now, I don't know when it ill be printed. The publishing house is in the hands of new owners as the founder passed away in 2020. I don't expect any income from the revised edition either. Member Phoenix Venus contributed to the new edition, she also did all the sorely needed grammatical editing, and she will be get her recognition on the cover of the book but likely that will be all she'll get out of it, also. If you would like to help the effort, anyone, please contact and pester the publishers to print the revised edition. The current is out of print anyways. thank you.
Wow... it just started raining here in Northern California... Hallelujah. On a June 5th.... Now that borders on the miraculous
ptv

 

[piercethevale]

Member Phoenix Venus and I collaborated on the making of a video, in which I do the narration, that is an introduction to this natal chart.
Phoenix Venus did a marvelous, job, of an arduous task, of assembling a slide presentation to go along with my narration, for which she has my undying gratitude.
It is on you tube and can be seen and heard here at this link, thank you.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Hi ptv, have you pm’d the mods about the disappearance of the birth chart and photos? Maybe they could help. That’s so frustrating to lose your hard work.

 

[piercethevale]

Hi ptv, have you pm’d the mods about the disappearance of the birth chart and photos? Maybe they could help. That’s so frustrating to lose your hard work.

I didn't see this post until today.
The answer is no different than it was when you asked it, in that, no I haven't.
It was eighteen years ago today, on November 7, 2004 [ 7 - 11] at right around this time of day here, i.e 5:30 p.m. PDT
As I just sent my old friend, Rick [I don't remember what name I gave Him in my book, his actual name is Richard Stookey, and He is one year, one month, and one day older than me.] and it was on Rick's new laptop at the time, a Toshiba that was state of the at and cost over $3,000 at the time and yet I believe a "smartwatch" now has more ram and memory, or as the like:
"It was 18 years ago, today, we produced the natal astrological chart of The Naz. 11/7/2004 at right about this time of day [i.e. 4 to 6 p.m. @ Folsom Hotel] He's growed up now, but not ready to walk on his own, apparently."
The historic, and haunted off the hook, hotel, built in 1875, on the corner of Sutter Street and Riley Street, in Folsom, Calif. In room 13, third floor, which was the attic until 1917 when the owner, at that time, added four rooms , and a hall bath, by converting the attic and adding four more bedrooms. It is 39 steps up from the lobby, 40 steps if you count the one from the sidewalk, inside, into the lobby... 22 steps to the second floor, another 17, very steep, steps up to the third floor. Little more than a monks cell, and it came with three ghosts of it own [there are ghosts that mark their territory, apparently]. I met my friend, and fellow yogi, Suryakant, there, at that hotel, in August, 2003. Suryakant had just moved in that month, and I had just gotten out of jail, after spending 120 days of a 180 day sentence, having pled "nolo contendre" to a charge of felony vandalism, with time off for good behavior. Suryakant lived there until June of 2007 when He moved into my apt and rented the other bedroom for four months, until he retired and moved to Oregon. I lived there five and a half years, from October 2001 to May 2007.
It was here, at my present apt. on the other side of the American River, and about three quarters of a mile down stream, that I moved into in May of 2007, wrote my book which was published on March 3, 2008 [3/3 ... 33 is the esoteric Gnostic number for Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, "the Man", as the number 888 is that of The Christ] which wasn't by conscious effort on the part of the publisher, it just worked out that way.
It's kinda like a birthday celebration
Suryakant passed away last December, the last time I saw Him was in 2010 at Stewarts' Hot Springs, near Mt. Shasta. He was nine years and about two months older than I. My friend, Rick, is dying from cancer. He's now lived an additional 14 months than what the doctors told him to expect to live... and staying strong.
Both men were essential to the process of the producing of the original natal chart of the Nazarene.
I'm undergoing surgery for skin cancer later this month. A long convalescence is the prognosis due to reconstructive surgery being now needed...due to my stubbornness/stupidity at getting it taken care of a few years ago.
I wont be able to wear eyeglasses for sometime, so I likely won't be writing and posting anything here, at the forum, for awhile.
Keep the Faith, pray for peace, pray for the nation, pray for the world.
ptv

 

[piercethevale]

Four years ago I found a facebook page dedicated to Trevor Ravenscroft...the author of "The Cup of Destiny", whom studied the works of Rudolf Steiner and wrote of Steiner's prediction that Parsival [Pierce-the-vale. as that is what Parsival meant in old English...or Welsh... Breton...one of those languages ...it's explained in that book] would be re-incarnate in time for the new millennium [of which I passed all the criteria/prerequisites that needed to be apparent in order to be considered to be that soul... [There have been others that claimed to be...none of them had all the criteria... some only in their dreams.] The page had been created by Trevor Jr. in 2018. I sent a message January 15, 2019... I finally got a reply only earlier today.
It may be the break I've been praying for?

 

[arj]

I wish to include another one of the Astrological Parts derived from this chart in this first post and hopefully it'll fit the limit on text per post.



The Part of Catastrophe is derived from the Formula Asc. + Uranus - Sun. In this chart we find that to be at 27* Virgo 03' 13". What has been discovered (or revealed as actually it was never lost... now was it?) that the "Catastrophe" revealed by the Sabian Symbol found for the degree of the Zodiac it is in is a necessary thing in ones life that will occur at some point. The advantage here in knowing what it is early enough in ones life is that "forewarned is forearmed". By knowing about it ahead of time one is given the opportunity to mitigate the damage... possibly avoid any real damage all together.



By Dane's wonderful tome we find that to be (ibid.)



"VIRGO 28°: A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER.

KEYNOTE: The sheer power of personality in times that call for decision.



Whether at the religious or at the socio-political and cultural level there comes a time when obsolescent patterns of order and cultural refinement have to be radically and relentlessly challenged. Catabolic personages emerge to seize power and dictate decisions that alter the structures of society; or within an individual life, an intense urge for cathartic changes mobilizes the will, and traumatic decisions are made. At such times, the issue has to be met and, ruthless as the power may appear, it must be accepted.



At this third stage of the thirty-sixth sequence we face the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation. Existence is motion. No static formation, however beautiful and inspiring, can remain long unchallenged. Everything bows to THE POWER OF THE WILL — divine, executively human, or Satanic."



As Dane so brilliantly interpreted (or was divinely guided...?) and wrote..."the un-postponable necessity for decision and transformation." it seems that there wasn't much opportunity to mitigate much for Yeshu'a's sake. He may have known just how very much it was a necessity and un-postponable and, possibly, Judas knew of this too.

It has been said by some that Judas was the most knowledgeable of all the disciples and that He understood why He had to "betray" Yeshu'a to the authorities.



One very likely reason, I believe given their past history of the religious and political "authorities" in that area from the time of Moses to the days of Yeshu'a, is likely that the Romans threatened to kill every male Jew between certain ages in a hundred, or so, mile radius in order to ensure that they put a stop to his growing ministry. If you'll recall the story of Spartacus...when it came time for Spartacus to give himself up...everyone was suddenly Spartacus.



I have a theory that Judas was not an outsider, as most will have us believe, but in fact was an Essene and was Mary's younger brother... it is said that Jesus/Yeshu'a and Judas looked so much alike that at times even the disciples couldn't tell them apart.

That Judas had been an Essene would give great cause to the legend that He understood the teachings of Yeshu'a far better than any of the other disciples. I think He was part of the entourage in order to "keep an eye on him" for Mary's sake.[A theory I'm now very doubtful of. ptv 11/6/2020]



At this point I would like to discuss matrices.



The six pointed star, or Magen David is made up of two interlaced equilateral triangles. According to Rudhyar, "the trine always presents a challenge to have a vision of what is possible.' He also said, it allows one to be "imbued with a sense of purpose." The six pointed matrix allows one to take that vision, and sense of purpose, and use it with "adequate management and organizational genius."



Dane Rudhyar has, to my knowledge, at least implied that the Magen David was prophesied or expected to appear in the birth chart of the Messiah. This is what I was looking for when I first started using astrological web sites and their computer ephemerices. A Rabbi, the late Dr. Joel Dobin, also infers it in his book "Kabbalistic Astrology" and I have come across other such inferrences, from other Rabbis, over the years



I found no possible six-point matrix for the date Edgar Cayce gave as the true birth time. I did find however, an incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart that I propose is the correct one for Jesus. And this matrix, in fact, involves every other point of a Grand Septile matrix. Starting with the Ascendant and traveling in either direction, [i.e. clockwise or counter-clockwise], around the chart the septile points would be every 51.428571°. An irrational number, which interestingly enough, is the exact angle of the side of the Great Pyramid. Very little is known about the septile and much less the Grand Septile matrix. To my knowledge, the only thing Rudhyar ever really commented about on this aspect is that, according to ancient lore, it is an aspect of fatality. Now I propose using the ascendant as the basis or the starting point of this matrix. Because Pluto is a little past the ascendant and the moon is just before the ascendant. There is a much larger allowable orb than the 2° that is normally allowed to either side for this aspect. An allowance of an extra 45 minutes of a degree to either side is what I estimate. Thus, these points, from [1]; Pluto clockwise around the chart would be at [2] nine + degrees Leo; [3] just about exactly 18° Gemini; [4] 26 + degrees Aries; [5] between 5 and 6° Pisces; [6] approximately 14° Capricorn and [7] just a little more than 22° Scorpio.



As to the construct of the incomplete Grand Septile matrix on this chart, you'll find that after the conjunction of Pluto and the Moon on the Ascendant that there is to be found Mars at 18° 56 minutes Gemini on one of the other seven points. Two of the other points are occupied by Venus at 6° 47 minutes Pisces and Neptune at 24° 26 minutes Scorpio. The missing points on the septile matrix in the birth chart of Jesus, those at Leo, Aries and Capricorn are found to have been completed by transit on the Monday after, what was the first Easter Sunday. If my proposed birth time for Jesus is correct, then by all given history. The first Easter Sunday would have been April 15 in the year 35 AD by the Gregorian calendar. From the Astrodienst computer we find these missing points completed at approximately 2:00 P.M. the next day, Monday, following. At that time and date the Sun was in the 26th degree of Aries, the Moon in the 14th degree of Capricorn, and Saturn and Jupiter, conjunct, at a little more than 12° Leo.



Below is the chart for...

The Day after the Sunday of the Crucifixion... the completion of the Septile matrix

View attachment 91080







The time of day given in the above chart is my arbitrary choice.... the exact time was decisive according to Gods' Will







Lots more to continue with in the posts ahead (although some of the originals were deleted some years ago...as I was in the late planning stage of leaving this forum forever and felt it best to take certain threads with me rather than leave them behind to be trashed by trolls.) ptv



_______________

Can you redo the chart for 5:30 am on Aug 27 2 BCE, the date and time encoded by the Magi in the Leo stele at Nemrut Dag? it showed a once in 18000 year 3 planet conjunction aligned with the star Regulus, and an unknown star- a possible nova -at the point the Leonids emanate from in the constellation. But the birth event would be at Bethlehem, not the Magi's location in Anatolia..

 

[piercethevale]

Can you redo the chart for 5:30 am on Aug 27 2 BCE, the date and time encoded by the Magi in the Leo stele at Nemrut Dag? it showed a once in 18000 year 3 planet conjunction aligned with the star Regulus, and an unknown star- a possible nova -at the point the Leonids emanate from in the constellation. But the birth event would be at Bethlehem, not the Magi's location in Anatolia..

I suggest that you do so yourself and start a thread on it.
If you will notice this sub-form is dedicated to degree symbols, [and, personally, I only believe in the veracity of the Sabian Symbols I have found no other set comes close in comparison, most can't even approach them, much less come close] and if you are not studied in the use of degree symbols I also will suggest that you find a different sub forum for your post. Perhaps that of natal celebrity?

I will look forward to reading it.