The 8 sign zodiac - looking for info about it
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waybread
The new administration set up in Egypt at Assurbanipal’s behest consisted again of the twenty governors and vice-kings appointed earlier by Esarhaddon. At the head of the list was Necho, who received Memphis and Sais as his share—two of the most important cities of the period.
varchive.org/necho I
When the twenty governors reached Nineveh, all save one were put to death: only Necho, vice-king of Memphis and Sais, was allowed to live. Assurbanipal, in need of a reliable ally to govern Egypt and keep it safe from the Ethiopians, chose Necho to be sent back to the country as its sole king. “And I, Assurbanipal, inclined towards friendliness, had mercy upon Necho, my own servant, whom Esarhaddon, my own father, had made king in Kar-bel-matate [Sais].” The king of Assyria secured Necho’s allegiance by “an oath more severe than the former. I inspired his heart with confidence, clothed him in splendid (brightly-colored) garments, laid upon him a golden chain as the emblem of his royalty~.~.~. Chariots, horses, mules, I presented to him for his royal riding. My officials I sent with him at his request.” \
Luckenbill, Records of Assyria II, 905, in Pritchard, Ancient Near Eastern Texts, p. 297
rahu
The new administration set up in Egypt at Assurbanipal’s behest consisted again of the twenty governors and vice-kings appointed earlier by Esarhaddon. At the head of the list was Necho, who received Memphis and Sais as his share—two of the most important cities of the period.
varchive.org/necho I
When the twenty governors reached Nineveh, all save one were put to death: only Necho, vice-king of Memphis and Sais, was allowed to live. Assurbanipal, in need of a reliable ally to govern Egypt and keep it safe from the Ethiopians, chose Necho to be sent back to the country as its sole king. “And I, Assurbanipal, inclined towards friendliness, had mercy upon Necho, my own servant, whom Esarhaddon, my own father, had made king in Kar-bel-matate [Sais].” The king of Assyria secured Necho’s allegiance by “an oath more severe than the former. I inspired his heart with confidence, clothed him in splendid (brightly-colored) garments, laid upon him a golden chain as the emblem of his royalty~.~.~. Chariots, horses, mules, I presented to him for his royal riding. My officials I sent with him at his request.” \
Luckenbill, Records of Assyria II, 905, in Pritchard, Ancient Near Eastern Texts, p. 297
rahu
waybread
Staff member
Thanks, Rahu! It seems clear that Necho had contact with Babylon. Whether he actually developed the astrology that Hellenistic astrologers said he did is another interesting question. Necho is also credited with having his workers attempt to dig the first Suez canal (unsuccessful) and circumnavigate Africa (possibly successful) so he seems to have been quite a guy.
there is another problem with necho.
though these accomplishments you mentioned are ascribed to necho, there is virtual no archeological remains. the only remains is a inscription on a votive piece for a apis bull.(i'll have to check on this ). there are no monuments , nothing... all we know is from herodotus.
if he was so powerful why are there no archeological remains?
rahu
though these accomplishments you mentioned are ascribed to necho, there is virtual no archeological remains. the only remains is a inscription on a votive piece for a apis bull.(i'll have to check on this ). there are no monuments , nothing... all we know is from herodotus.
if he was so powerful why are there no archeological remains?
rahu
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Frequently, evidence has been destroyed by acts of war - e.g. the burning of the great library of Alexandria
Buildings, monuments, ancient artefacts and museums are frequently bombed to smithereens currently
waybread
Staff member
Rahu, it was very common for Hellenistic and Roman authors in Antiquity to ascribe their work to an ancient king, philosopher, or even god-- who could not have possibly written the work. For example, a work attributed to Plato might describe events that happened in a subsequent century. This doesn't mean that the king or sage never existed: it does mean that we have to be careful before asserting that a given source could be legitimate.
While there are several textual confirmations of a King Necho/Neko/Nekau the second http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho_II we can't say for sure that this person wrote the astrological material attributed to him by Hellenistic astrologers. For one thing, the state of Babylonian astrology during his reign (ca. 600 BC) was different in many particulars from the Hellenistic astrology that emerged ca. 200 BC.
While there are several textual confirmations of a King Necho/Neko/Nekau the second http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho_II we can't say for sure that this person wrote the astrological material attributed to him by Hellenistic astrologers. For one thing, the state of Babylonian astrology during his reign (ca. 600 BC) was different in many particulars from the Hellenistic astrology that emerged ca. 200 BC.
charmvirgo
Well-known member
I don't want anybody jumping down my neck for mentioning it because it's not signs, but there is another astrological system involving eight, which is the eight trigrams of the I-Ching that each correspond to planets as well as the directions NSEW etc, and each trigram also relates to a chakra and its colour.
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Waybread,
nothing in your wiki pedia article negates what I posted.
Reading the article carefully,necho is “most likely” the pharaoh mentioned in the bible. And the small bronze sculpture is likely necho.
And for some reason his son ,psamsik removed nechos name from nearly all monuments....there are no monuments at all.
Books on egyptian history tell the story of necho II wars against nebuchadnezzar but the story is based on material from the bible and from herodotus. egyptian archeology does not support the story of the war .there is no mention of any remains of necho's war campaigns .the only historical inscription of any certainty is supposed to be the Serapeum stele, which records the burial of an apis bull by Nekau-Wehemibre.”The God(the Apis bull was conducted in peace to the necropolis,to let him assume his place in his temple”where Nekau-Wehemibre prepared “all the coffins and everything excellent and profitable for this august god” J.H.Breasted,Ancient Records of Egypt
there is nothing about the long war with nebuchadnezzar,no record of civic activities, no temple built , no written scrolls , no mummy or coffin.
Herodotus also says the necho “was the first to attempt the construction of the canal to the red sea,a work completed afterward by darius the persian”Herodotus II,pg158 and also recounted by diodorus siculus,I, pg33.
But archeologist have found that ramsesII had built a canal connecting the mediterrean sea to the red sea.E.A.Budge,A History of Egypt V!,pg219
herodotus said necho was the first to build it. But this is obviously false as ramses is dated 700 years before necho.
and there are no inscripitions by nekau-wehemibre claiming any such endeavor.
And then herodotus also says that necho circumnavigated africa. And again this of this historic feat,nekau-whemibre left no inscrpitions.
So how can necho have been a great and powerful king when he left no records or temple or inscriptions? And when herodotus is shown to be flat out wrong
the assyrian records I quoted above show necho was no more than a vice-king under the thumb of assurbunipal.necho cannot have be the great personage you claim he was.
I bring this up because you always seem to bring up the importance of this period in history to support your belief that astrology was some how “created”or transformed in this time frame. From other things you have posted I have to assume that you are of the mind that daniel gave all astrological knowledge to the babylonians
rahu
nothing in your wiki pedia article negates what I posted.
Reading the article carefully,necho is “most likely” the pharaoh mentioned in the bible. And the small bronze sculpture is likely necho.
And for some reason his son ,psamsik removed nechos name from nearly all monuments....there are no monuments at all.
Books on egyptian history tell the story of necho II wars against nebuchadnezzar but the story is based on material from the bible and from herodotus. egyptian archeology does not support the story of the war .there is no mention of any remains of necho's war campaigns .the only historical inscription of any certainty is supposed to be the Serapeum stele, which records the burial of an apis bull by Nekau-Wehemibre.”The God(the Apis bull was conducted in peace to the necropolis,to let him assume his place in his temple”where Nekau-Wehemibre prepared “all the coffins and everything excellent and profitable for this august god” J.H.Breasted,Ancient Records of Egypt
there is nothing about the long war with nebuchadnezzar,no record of civic activities, no temple built , no written scrolls , no mummy or coffin.
Herodotus also says the necho “was the first to attempt the construction of the canal to the red sea,a work completed afterward by darius the persian”Herodotus II,pg158 and also recounted by diodorus siculus,I, pg33.
But archeologist have found that ramsesII had built a canal connecting the mediterrean sea to the red sea.E.A.Budge,A History of Egypt V!,pg219
herodotus said necho was the first to build it. But this is obviously false as ramses is dated 700 years before necho.
and there are no inscripitions by nekau-wehemibre claiming any such endeavor.
And then herodotus also says that necho circumnavigated africa. And again this of this historic feat,nekau-whemibre left no inscrpitions.
So how can necho have been a great and powerful king when he left no records or temple or inscriptions? And when herodotus is shown to be flat out wrong
the assyrian records I quoted above show necho was no more than a vice-king under the thumb of assurbunipal.necho cannot have be the great personage you claim he was.
I bring this up because you always seem to bring up the importance of this period in history to support your belief that astrology was some how “created”or transformed in this time frame. From other things you have posted I have to assume that you are of the mind that daniel gave all astrological knowledge to the babylonians
rahu
This is quite accurate, and there are a few (not many though) books which have been translated into English, which have studied this subject (eg, "The Astrology of the I Ching") Charmvirgo has also presented a very excellent exposition of this subject, on her site.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Indeed, I agree
Bob Zemco Thanks for highlighting these interesting historical factors
waybread
Staff member
Gosh, rahu-- We really are talking at cross-purposes for no purpose. I never claimed that "Mr. N" was a great personage. But you cannot help but read the Hellenistic authors who cite him without realizing that they thought he was a great astrologer.
My "shtick" is really that Greek and Latin authors loved to attribute "knowledge" to even more ancient sources. This doesn't mean that the more ancient sources actually wrote the stuff. Au contraire. In ancient times, a relatively non-prestigious author or copyist could claim more authority for himself by asserting that his stuff was written by a former king, sage, or even god.
We know that some of these claims are false because they are historically anachronistic. For example, a sage might be described as though he witnessed events that occured long after his death-- or before his birth.
It is entirely consistent to imagine a King Necho/Neko/Nekau/Nechepso to whom later authors attributed astrology's foundations without this attribution being correct. Also, even if this man existed and was the Neko of the Bible and wrote astrological treatises, this doesn't mean he was a mighty pharoah.
The hint of an astrology link is that whoever "N" was, he could have been a conduit for Babylonian astrology.
Give me some credit. There is no reason to believe that Daniel taught astrology to the Babylonians. if we assume that there was an actual Daniel, the teaching would have been the other way around, based on archaeological and historical knowledge of Babylonian astrology. If you wish to follow this line of thought, however, you are probably familiar with Josephus's attribution of the origins of astrology to Abraham, a self-identified Aramean.
My "shtick" is really that Greek and Latin authors loved to attribute "knowledge" to even more ancient sources. This doesn't mean that the more ancient sources actually wrote the stuff. Au contraire. In ancient times, a relatively non-prestigious author or copyist could claim more authority for himself by asserting that his stuff was written by a former king, sage, or even god.
We know that some of these claims are false because they are historically anachronistic. For example, a sage might be described as though he witnessed events that occured long after his death-- or before his birth.
It is entirely consistent to imagine a King Necho/Neko/Nekau/Nechepso to whom later authors attributed astrology's foundations without this attribution being correct. Also, even if this man existed and was the Neko of the Bible and wrote astrological treatises, this doesn't mean he was a mighty pharoah.
The hint of an astrology link is that whoever "N" was, he could have been a conduit for Babylonian astrology.
Give me some credit. There is no reason to believe that Daniel taught astrology to the Babylonians. if we assume that there was an actual Daniel, the teaching would have been the other way around, based on archaeological and historical knowledge of Babylonian astrology. If you wish to follow this line of thought, however, you are probably familiar with Josephus's attribution of the origins of astrology to Abraham, a self-identified Aramean.
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