The 12th house/life review

[Shining Ray]

I was reading in the Encyclopedia of astrology, about insanity and Carter was saying the 12th house is usually dominant probably because severe mental illness will often require confinement. It got me thinking more on the 12th house and it's affect. A person with a 12th house emphasis might work in prison's or hospitals but do you think it is definite that some long period of isolation is indicated by the 12th house a need to retreat and maybe find their sense of unity again. It doesn't have to be incarcerated but just time away from the world.

A lot of Celebrities and presidents have 12th house planets Madonna, Britney Spears, Patrick Swayze has Sun/Pluto in Leo and he has had Cancer treatment (if the chart is correct, will have to double check it.) George Bush has a 12th house Sun and Tony Blair - in some sense they serve the collective. John Aitkin a British politician committed fraud (Mercury conjunct Neptune exact in 1st Virgo) he has Sun, Venus NN Chiron in 12th. Aitkin spent 18 months in prison.

Muhammad Ali Pluto in 12th was sentenced to 5 years in prison. Although there are some lovely examples of 12th house planets, like Ammachi she was saintly and she helped to feed orphans/underprivileged but she was tormented as a young girl and thrown stones at because she was seen as strange by family and neighbors because she refused to marry and wanted to live a mystical life. Louis Armstrong has Moon in Aries 12th square Saturn, he smoked marijuana that is the only drug in my knowledge but he seemed to have unhappy marriages, he married a few times his first wife was a prostitute, not sure how this relates to this topic lol.

Do you think it is necessary for some people to go into confinement for a while. The 12th house is often seen as a retreat, and it rules the collective unconscious. It seems for criminals they are spending time away because they now have a sort of karmic debt to fulfill. There was a poem I liked written by a prison inmate.

A person spends their whole life,
searching for something,
and all the while that something is within
Your waiting to be discovered.
This is how it is when your whole life has been blown out of the water.
Before ever setting out
to sea - the night seas
Journey with no rudder
and high waves.
My whole life was sinking
Before it ever thought
to rise -trees
have been replaced by sleepless nights in prison
the sky framed in a sealed window
cut into the back wall

Although it seems time away has brought out his creativity. Can anyone describe the real meaning of this house. I have only mentioned the worst case scenarios and a nice example of how planets in 12th can express themselves. Is life itself a prison for the soul it seems like we go through a whole range of emotions from sadness, loss, ecstasy, grief and it's hard on the body and the spirit. Is the 12th house a need to turn to something within, back into the unity and wholeness of life. For people who commit crimes is a time in isolation a karmic need in order for the soul to reflect on his/her actions. Is any period in isolation a need for reflection on your life as a whole, so you can re-asses your life. Many thoughts but I really want to get to the root of this house, it's meaning and why these circumstances come about, is it all for soul growth.

 

[waybread]

Really thoughtful post, Shing Ray!

I am fond of the traditional definition of the 12th house: the house of "self-undoing." With the sun in the 12th, it is the person's ego that gets undone, leading either to (a) a futile, unhappy attempt to claim a structured ego, or, alternatively, (b) to identification with a higher cause. Although 12th house politicians may seem ambitious and even selfish, in their own minds they believe their work to be on behalf of their constituents or a higher cause like fighting poverty. 12th house stelliums are apparently common among mystics, humanitarians, and theologians. Self-undoing as self-lessness.

Whatever one may think of George Bush, he is a devout Christian who believed he was doing God's work. His presidency was noted for his isolation from the press, critical cabinet members, and non-Republican crowds. Self-undoing seems to have caught up with his presidency, to say the least.

I think the association of the 12th with confinement comes from a couple of sources. (1) The ancients thought the 12th was an unfortunate house--hence landing in prison or in a mental institution. (2) Mystics and theologians may be members of the clergy, and some religions offer a monastic lifestyle. Others are probably happy having time alone with their thoughts.

A good use of 12th house energies would be to work with people who are misfortunate or confined in some way: volunteering in the local hospital, with the John Howard Society for prisoners, or visiting shut-ins.

I think another biggie about the 12th house is that planets there may be energies that the native doesn't understand very well in him/herself, even though they are probably clear to others. I have Saturn in the 12th in Virgo, for example, and it comes as a shock to me to realize that some people see me as displaying a kind of old-fashioned school teacher persona. (Who me? Never!)

Finally, look to see what signs on house-cusps in the horoscope as a whole are ruled by any 12th house planets. Affairs of these houses may also experience self-undoing. For example, I have Mercury, Venus, and the sun in the 5th house. So you'd think I would enjoy gambling. With my Saturn in the 12th opposite my sun and Capricorn on the cusp of my 5th house, for example, there is no way I could make any money at it. On the other hand, I have 2 children (now young adults) and parenting went OK-- possibly because it requires selflessness (12th) and self-discipline (Saturn).

 

[Shining Ray]

Very interesting thoughts Waybread

I would agree with everything you have said, I was going to ask about rulers as I don't have planets in the 12th, I was looking on the wikipedia article the other day and noticed Saturn has joy in the 12th house, what do you think is the reasoning for this. I have read some of the mythical stories about Cronus (Saturn) and he was imprisoned he spent the last part of his life in tartarus. Saturn rules time, although Jupiter likes the 12th house and these two planets form a sort of polarized role. Saturn intensifies feelings of isolation, sadness, depression. I have Leo on cusp of 12th, the Sun/Pisces in 7th opposed Saturn in 1st. I feel I often contribute to my own self undoing, and my full self expression is blocked and suppressed and lately this is feeling harder to cope with. Maybe this is why I am in a more introspective mood lately. I do think the need to withdraw from life is just as necessary as other parts of life the need to reflect on your situation before taking action again (1st) you always have the sense of being re-born when you have spent some time alone and have defined what you want from life, although maybe the word Defined is not the right definition to use for the 12th house, but then I could be taking it from a personal perspective with Saturn opposing my 12th house ruler maybe this is why I am using this word.

I can see why people might look at you as a sort of teacher, with Sun in Capricorn opposed by Saturn, two of the same archetypes repeating on your Sun, add 5th self expression and 12th the self discipline in spiritual matters etc.

The ancients all thought the 6th and 12th house were malefic, and planets in these houses were unfortunate. Although as we have seen prominent people in the public eye can have a 12th house emphasis but it seems they become an embodiment of what we collectively place upon them, it must be difficult to keep hold of your own personal expression on a 12th house planet. It does seem worke for the greater good is a way to use these energies.

The Hanged man card can be related to this house, the sense of hopelessness. There was a quote by Carl Jung which describes this experience

Nobody who finds himself on the road to wholeness can escape the characteristic suspension which is the meaning of Crucifixion. For he will inevitably run into things which thwart and cross him: first, the thing he has no wish to be (shadow); second, the thing he is not (the 'other' the individual reality of the 'You' and third, his psychic non ego (the collective unconscious).

Suffering in the 12th house leads to some kind of connection to the spiritual side of life but I can also see how in this hanged man state, self undoing and hopelessness can also happen, but this may be necessary to lose a sense of self in order to find who you really are. I feel this personally when other people try to define who I am, I get to a point where I feel I lose all connection with myself. I feel defensive lost, want to keep away from people. Sometimes depression comes over me, and in this state I still feel it is necessary as it enables me to see I am blocked somewhere because I am feeling isolated and trapped and it will lead me to take action (Saturn/Cardinal) towards self improvement/growth, and freeing all the blocks and suppression's I have locked up inside me. The 12th house is also the house of sacrifice. I will think deeper on what this means what type of sacrifice is necessary. Questions to ponder.

 

[lalalaheidi87]

This post is quite interesting. my knowledge of the houses is not that great, but this paints the 12th in a very beautiful way. I have a sister who is v-e-r-y 12TH, i think if i ever get her into astrology, ill point her to this post. for the longest time i did not understand her, but learning about the 12th i can a little.

 

[astrologer50]

You should also bear in mind that the 12th house especially if you have personal planets their reflect your early childhood influences from mom and dad....

Being a Spiritualist, everthing we do is a Lesson, a learning curve for the Soul anyway. I do believe in free will and people's destinies, cos that's what they have chosen to come into this World to do and learn. We are ALL here to see the outcomes of our decisions, the good the bad and ugly and (in my mind) you simply cannot fail, cos if its something you chose to learn or do, your Free Will is this...........you can do or now or later, but eventually you will learn the Lesson..

 

[waybread]

Hey, thanks, Shining Ray! Actually I have the sun in Aquarius--my sun opposite Saturn in the 12th is out of sign, and come to think of it, out-of-house, with my sun in the 5th. The orb is wide, but closing in by progression. (When Saturn opposes the sun it is always retrograde.)

Re: Saturn having his joy in the 12th. I think the commonality is solitude. Saturn may feel lonely in being alone, but in this position he is an introvert who needs privacy and time for renewal.

Re: Astrologer50's point, the well known Dutch astrologer, Karen Hamaker-Zondag, wrote a book on the 12th house. She feels that 12th house planets indicate the mother's immediate post-birth experiences. I suppose Saturn in the 12th could suggest heavy feelings of responsibility.

Other astrologers see Saturn in the 12th as indicating a father who is literally absent, or who may be remote and emotionally removed from the child.

I am not sure that Karen Hamaker-Zondag is always correct here, though. My daughter has sun and Mercury in the 12th and I felt very happy after her birth. My own father was away from home a lot of the time and very much the authoritarian when he was home, so perhaps the father one works.

 

[lillyjgc]

Hi,
Interesting thread! I see the twelfth as being the *house of the unconscious mind* as well as the more traditional interpretations of *self-undoing* (self-sabotage) and hidden enemies, confinement and witchcraft etc.
I have no planets in the twelfth, but it's probably a good idea also to consider what the Lord of the 12th is aspecting in the natal.
I've seen charts for quite a few insane people, and I've noticed that the 12th is not always involved- often the third house/ninth house axis is heavily involved though or the Lord of the 12th is engaged with Lords of H3 or 9 in a non productive way (oppositions very often).I also know some very sane people who have planets in 12.
A close friend, a nurse, one of the most truly compassionate people I know, has 2 planets in the 12th,(sun /merc and chiron on the cusp).She works night shifts with old people and is also psychic and a conscious healer.
Waybread,
Other astrologers see Saturn in the 12th as indicating a father who is literally absent, or who may be remote and emotionally removed from the child.
This is surely true for my son who has Saturn in 12. My son has seen his Father only a few times in the last decade.However,I never met my father and my h12 is empty and ruled by jupiter. However, jupiter also rules my fourth, traditionally the house of the Father.

Re: Saturn having his joy in the 12th. I think the commonality is solitude. Saturn may feel lonely in being alone, but in this position he is an introvert who needs privacy and time for renewal.

In terms of saturn having his joy in 12-I think this relates to the concept of Saturn the evil malefic enjoying mischief making with witches etc.Modern astrology seems to accept Saturn more as a taskmaster than a tyrant.
Those I know with saturn in 12 do seem to need to recharge by being alone, and this placement does seem to give the native a stoic resilience *suffering in silence* capacity.
Shining:
Suffering in the 12th house leads to some kind of connection to the spiritual side of life but I can also see how in this hanged man state, self undoing and hopelessness can also happen, but this may be necessary to lose a sense of self in order to find who you really are.
This I very much agree with.In Tarot, the Hanged Man card also represents an ability to cease struggle and internal conflict and *go with the flow*-a kind of spiritual surrender. Acceptance. I feel H12 has a lot to do with how we struggle with ourselves, the unconscious programming that sets us up in patterns that may (or may not) serve us well.
Cheers,
lillyjgc

 

[waybread]

Great insights, Lilly!

Just to tag onto them....I wouldn't see Saturn in the 12th as the only way one could have a missing or present but emotionally remote father--probably the MC/IC axis and 4th house could give further clues. In traditional astrology the sun is the father in a day birth. Normally I would say "it's the identity" but if someone asks/comments on his/her father it would be good to look at what the sun is doing.

I think your friend who is a nurse is a very positive expression of the 12th house. If it deals with misfortunate people and hospitals, then the medical profession might be very good for someone with a 12th house emphasis.

I no longer see Saturn as a malefic. A stern teacher, yes--but not evil as in the traditional sense. But yes, I could imagine astrologers long ago seeing Saturn as gloating over 12th house victims!

 

[Shining Ray]

Hi Waybread,

I must have read Capricorn on 5th as Sun in Capricorn (I need new glasses). Saturn rules my 5th also, all of my fire houses would have had an earth sign ruling them but my chart is intercepted I got fiery Mars ruling 9th, with Mars in Aquarius 6th square Uranus in Scorpio 3rd. Explains why I am more excitable with knowledge I am like a kid in a candy store when it comes to books, I adore reading .

With pre-birth and the 12th/Saturn maybe there are feelings of heavy burden, or anxiety, or fears before the birth. It might not have to be serious but the little growing baby picks up the energy vibrations in the mothers belly.

Don't we look like little aliens at this stage although when it's your own baby they are the cutest little alien ever lol. What can a baby pick up at this stage do you really think all the energy from the environment is transmitted. I have seen charts where the mothers were abused in pregnancy through violence and there was a difficult Mars in the 12th. This is not in every case of course. It is interesting to explore this stage of life. The sound is obviously muffled and the heartbeat is loud, like when you lie in the bath underwater all you can hear is your heat pounding it is very womb like and relaxing. The baby can see different shades of colour in the womb. Before I start to get broody time to move on.

My little boy has Mercury in Virgo 12th, I still am unsure what pre-birth influences this placement. It's hard to pin down when your pregnant your mind is on so many things, your changing body, your excitement/fears it's a busy time.

Hi Lilly,

I find the mentally insane have too much outer planetary activity, and often as you say the 3rd/9th house can be challenged. And then if 12th house is dominant then some hospital stay is possible.

I love your view on the hanged man as a sort of spiritual surrender and the unconscious programming I like this phrase.

Here is the interpretation from wikipedia on the hanged man image:

The Hanged Man is a card of profound but veiled significance. Its symbolism points to divinity, linking it to the Passion of Christ in Christianity, especially The Crucifixion; to the narratives of Osiris (Egyptian mythology) and Mithras (Roman mythology). In all of these archetypal stories, the destruction of self brings life to humanity; on the card, these are symbolized respectively by the person of the hanged man and the living tree from which he hangs bound. Its relationship to the other cards usually involves the sacrifice that makes sacred; personal loss for a greater good or a greater gain.

Serenely dangling upside-down, the Hanged Man has let go of worldly attachments. He has sacrificed a desire for control over his circumstances in order to gain an understanding of, and communion with, creative energies far greater than his individual self. In letting go, the hero gains a profound perspective accessible only to someone free from everyday conceptual, dualistic reality.

The Hanged Man is often associated with Odin the primary god of the Norse Pantheon. Odin hung upside down from the world-tree, Yggdrasil, for nine days to attain wisdom and thereby retrieved The Runes from the Well of Wyrd, which the Norse cosmology regarded as the source and end of all Mystery and all knowledge. The moment he glimpsed the runes, he died, but the knowledge of them was so powerful that he immediately returned to life. This interpretation highlights the necessity of undertaking acts of personal sacrifice in order to achieve one's own higher spiritual good.

 

[luneblanche]

Dear all,
I don't know if Saturn in 12H leads to confinement in a prison or in a hospital but probably to a confinment in ourselves. I have Saturn in Leo on the 12H and I have to isolate myself often in order to "feel" myself. In those retreats I have much more awareness of my thoughts. Unfortunately because of Saturn those thoughts aren't very positive but I do have the need to break-up from the material world and pause.
I've read aswell that Saturn in 12H is a happy position because it can bring to light the wiseness that Saturn is associated with. What do you think from it? For me is a burden feeling aware of how life/world really is. But I hope that this assumption is true and somehow in the future I can be a wiser person.
It is said that Saturn in Leo in the 12H brings enemies into light. I must say that actually my enemies always shown soon or later their passion against me in a way that even people around me could see it. I don't know if that has happened to you. Haven't found good articles about Saturn in Leo in 12H. Hope someone can give me more hints about it.
Thanks for reading.