Testing out Vedic V. western

[astropsychologist]

Hello,
I'm starting to learn Vedic astrology, I'm just covering the basics at the moment so am nowhere near predictive work yet. However I have been told that Vedic is far superior to western astrology when it comes to predictions, so I want to test this out. According to western astrology I have transiting Saturn & the progressed Moon both about to cross my Dsc in Sept, which looks promising for a relationship (albeit probably a difficult one). I'm interested to know if Vedic predicts something similar or not. If anyone who is skilled at Vedic work would be so kind as to take a look, i'd be very grateful, i'm really interested to see just how much better it is at predictions. My birth and navamsha charts are below (sorry, they're not in N Indian format, they're just off astro.com)

 

[astropsychologist]

Ok, I doesn't seem to want to upload them for me!!!

Here are the links to the birth chart....http://www.astro.com/tmpd/cbslfile0IGpkV-u1341513322/astro_2gw_02_d_hw.64320.29870.gif?19222

The navamsha chart....http://www.astro.com/tmpd/cbslfile0IGpkV-u1341513322/astro_29gw_02_d_hw.64577.15159.gif?17673

and the birth details are: 24/04/1980, 06:14 am, Cork, Ireland 8W28 51N54

 

[Moog]

Hi there. I'm into Vedic astrology, but definitely not skilled with predictions, unless I'm working backwards.

Definitely check out your dashas. I would say they form the basis of anything else, transits or whatever.

Curious to know why you think Saturn transiting 7th would be a good thing for relationships?

 

[astropsychologist]

Hi Moog,

Thanks for that, Im just starting to learn about Dashas, finding them a bit confusing at the moment though!

I know Saturn transiting the 7th is not going to be a walk in the park, but I haven't had a relationship in 4 years, so I'm hoping it brings a committed relationship. Saturn natally aspects my Venus so I would expect something along those lines, especially as last time it hit my Dsc a few months ago before it went retrograde it brought an ex back into my life. I wouldn't normally expect this with Saturn alone transiting the Dsc, but seeing as the Progressed Moon is going to hit the Dsc at the same time I would expect that a relationship of some kind will come into my life, how am I supposed to learn Saturnian lessons about relationships if I don't have one?? Well, that's my logic anyway

 

[dr. farr]

I will add a note-I have used many Vedic concepts and methods APPLIED TO THE TROPICAL ZODIAC, with much satisfaction; it is important to know that one does NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO adopt the sidereal zodiac, in order to apply various Vedic astrological means and methods!

 

[Caro]

I agree saturn transit to 7th house can bring about a serious sommitted relationship. you sound very mature.

if in a relationship saturn moves into 7th can test it and it may end it if it is not serving your life path. this can be difficult to deal with depending other chart factors.(ive experienced this and my friend has gone thro something similar recently)

 

[Simha]

Astro Psychologist,

Right now Saturn is not in Dasa, Bhukti and Antra. Saturn Antra will start from 7 Oct and will last till 13 January 2013. During this period Saturn is transiting Nakshatra of Chitra. Sign and nakshatra of Saturn are not ruled by DBAS. Therefore during this period you will find increased focus on profession, maybe you will pick and do something of your own. Romance and relationships will develop. In general your Saturn is not bad it should help you in your professional growth, karma, love, and developing long term friends.

 

[Ryan Kurczak]

Testing systems is always a good idea. Also, Dr. Farr is correct. The tropical Zodiac, CAN work very well with Vedic techniques for reasons to numerous to list in a post.

Could you send me your birth data or post it here, so I can create the chart?

Best Wishes,
Ryan Kurczak

 

[astropsychologist]

Thanks Ryan Kurczak, I'd really appreciate that if you've got the time...my birth details are 24 Apr 1980, 06:14 am, Cork, Ireland.

Thanks a lot for that Simha, could you explain a bit more about what you mean when you say "Right now Saturn is not in Dasa, Bhukti and Antra"? In western astrology Saturn is just about to leave my 6th house, using Placidus my 6th house is huge!!! Saturn's been in it for the past 4 years and boy does it feel like it!!! The past 4 years have been all about work work and more work, so is there really more of that to come??

And Caro thank you for your comment that I sound "very mature", I wish I could agree with you however Saturn transiting over my Dsc likes that comment a lot!!

 

[Ryan Kurczak]

When we say Saturn is not in the dasha, bukti or antar, we are saying the Saturn is not being triggered in your chart in this way.

The Dashas, are based on a mathematical formula in regards to the position of your moon at birth. The cycle of the dashas are always the same, in regards to length of each dasha. (Each planet has a certain number of years allotted to it). But where you start on that sequence is different, based on your moon position. For example, someone may be in a moon dasha during early childhood, while another person might not experience their moon dasha until they are in there 70's.

Example:

When you are running a dasha of a planet, that planet takes center stage in your life. Meaning if you are running a dasha of the moon in Leo in the 5th house, all the indications of the moon will have a chance to give their results. Maybe you will attain a prominent position or have a role of leadership. Maybe you will be generous, affectionate, and take pride in your work during this time. This is all related to Moon in Leo.

Now we have to consider that in this example the Moon rules the 4th house if we are an Aries ascendant. So in this dasha, we also need to consider what does that mean? Maybe there will be gains from speculations, maybe spiritual practices will be very helpful, maybe there will be a focus on education. If the Moon is under negative strain from malefic planets, then these would still be in effect, but negatively. Spiritual practices could be unsteady. Speculations might cause more loss than gain. Maybe education is stressful.

This good also give a good knack for business, and many blessings from mantra meditation.

The bhukti and antar periods are the sub periods. For example you can be in a Moon Maha (major) Dasha, but then in a Saturn bhukti. Then we get a combination of Moon/Saturn being triggered. Then you could also be in a period of Moon as the major cycle, Saturn as the sub cycle, and Mars as the sub sub cycle. So it looks like this...Moon/Saturn/Mars. Now this can get quite complicated fast, and many very skilled astrologer rarely work down to the 3rd or 4th level, and those that do, do it mechanically, and so they can be right sometimes, but often times guessing. To really work out the predictive deeper dashas, requires extensive training, practice and insight.

The principles can be learned easily enough, but then actually applying them on all levels, requires very intensive study, because there are so many other variables, such as transits, and also in Vedic Astrology we have divisional charts, which are created from the horoscope. Each divisional chart represents an are of life. So you may be in a Moon period, and that Moon may be great in your birth chart, indicating bodily health, but it might be in an Enemies sign in your 3rd divisional chart, (the chart of siblings, peers, and prowess). So the Moon dasha could give good effects for health, but friends and peers might be lacking during this time. (Of course, even within that there are other variables, such as Lajitaadi Avashtas, that need to be considered to see just how it all pans out in the end.)

Beginning March 1st 2013-July 22 2014, at a glance looks to be a much better period for you in regards having a dharmic relationship or even marriage.

7th house issues usually revolve around sexual attraction and relationships dealing with emotion and sex. During the period mentioned above, it is much better, because it deals with the 9th house, which is related to the dharmic marriage, one that is based on a common purpose and life ideal. These tend to last longer, as they are of a higher order, and are not based on the fickle tendencies of the seventh house which is passion and emotion, that can quickly fade or change.

Specifically this time period comes to its zenith on Sept. 3-29, 2013.

Relationships are indicated, the direction of the relationships very much depends on modifying factors such as the accumulation of benefic or malefic influences. The more the benefic influences, the more pleasant and enjoyable it will be. The more malefic, the more difficult. Most people are a mix, and so have ups and downs.

In the long run, I'd check out your relationship capacity and compatibility with the potential mates that you meet. This will help you make good decisions, and to neutralize any potential negative triggers in your chart.

Best Wishes,
Ryan Kurczak

 

[astropsychologist]

Thank you so much for taking the time to do that Ryan! I really appreciate it.

So you say "If you are running a dasha of the moon in Leo in the 5th house, all the indications of the moon will have a chance to give their results. Maybe you will attain a prominent position or have a role of leadership. Maybe you will be generous, affectionate, and take pride in your work during this time. This is all related to Moon in Leo"....So does Moon in Leo in the 5th not mean the same in Vedic as it does in Western astrology? In western astrology it could mean children, romance, creativity, enjoyment etc and ruling the 4th would mean home and family etc. i just presumed the houses in Vedic and western had the same meanings, so is this not true then?

I like the idea of a dharmic relationship next year, thank you for giving me hope! I'll have a new moon conjucnt my Venus in June next year so that sounds about right.

I'm really interested in knowing more about Vedic, would you know of any courses you could recommend?

Thanks again!

 

[dr. farr]

Just a note for astropsychologist: Mr. Kurczak (and co-author R. Fish) have just published a new book, "The Art and Science of Vedic Astrology", which would be an excellent source for study and reference...

 

[Ryan Kurczak]

Thank you for your kind words Dr. Farr. Yes, I would advise that book as well, as it was based on a correspondence course and so is designed to introduce the basic information needed to begin to understand the chart in an educational manner.

I also offer personal tutorials to help fully grasp the material, based off of this work.

Other courses you may be interested in pursuing would be the work of Ernst Wilhelm. In my opinion he has the most sound and thorough approach so far. However, I would advise a solid understanding of the basics first.

Best Wishes,
Ryan Kurczak

PS- Dr. Farr, I think you'll enjoy the 2nd Volume, as it gets into more specific technique and will introduce the use of the tropical zodiac, hopefully touching on Jaimini as well, although Jaimini might not be included until Volume 3. The Jaimini system works very well with the Tropical Zodiac.

 

[astropsychologist]

Ok great thank you, i'll definitely have to take a look at the book and may be in touch for some personal tutorials if I can't grasp it myself. I've been studying K N Rao's free foundation course online but I'm struggling with parts of it.

Ive been studying modern western astrology for about 17 years now and as much as I love it, i'm getting frustrated with it's vagueness and it's limitations in terms of predictions. So I've start looking more towards traditional astrology and more recently towards Vedic. Has anybody else made this transition? If so, are you glad you did? Do you find Vedic has more to offer? Does knowing western astrology help or hinder when learning Vedic? Does western astrology give you a foundation or do you have to relearn everything from scratch?

 

[Ryan Kurczak]

I've never studied Western, but from what I've gathered, planets and signs and possibly even houses should be very close to the same. Someone who's studied both might be able to further clarify.

Having someone take you through charts describing the specific techniques helps out immensely!

The next book, I plan on having very specific case study examples to describe each technique. This will hopefully help understanding and grasping how it all fits together.

 

[Moog]

I started out studying only western astrology, only for a couple years or so, but fairly intensively.

Has anybody else made this transition? If so, are you glad you did? Do you find Vedic has more to offer?

Yes. But I do still find western texts and materials useful and interesting.

Does knowing western astrology help or hinder when learning Vedic?

I suspect the answer there is that it helps and hinders in different ways.

I was mainly interested in Hellenistic astrology (I still am, but it's a side thing now) which is fundamentally closer to Vedic astrology than modern western astrology is, so I possibly wasn't as hindered as I could have been.

Does western astrology give you a foundation or do you have to relearn everything from scratch?

A lot of it is still useful. The basic planet and sign meanings don't really alter. The concept of aspects is similar, but applied differently. Some of the house associations mentioned in Jyotish materials were new to me, but they are mostly similar too.

I think having looked at the astrology of several different cultures and times has given me a broad perspective on astrology as a whole. It's interesting and illuminating to see what similarities and differences there are between the various traditions.

 

[astropsychologist]

Hi Ryan, I have a quick question about the use of transits in Vedic astrology, I hope you don't mind?

I'm used to understanding how transits are affecting my natal planets in western astrology and Ive just read that Vedic uses transits too...so does that mean that you use the same ephemeris as western astrologers but watch how transits affect the sidereal placements of the natal planets? Or do you use a different ephemeris? or use the same ephemeris in a different way? (I hope that makes sense!)

Because if you use the same ephemeris to see how transiting planets affect sidereal natal placements, that would mean that Uranus has been transiting over my Ascendent (5 19' Aries in Vedic but 28 58' Aries in western) but I have experienced nothing of the sort, and I would expect that to be a pretty major transit? So I'm a bit confused!

 

[Ryan Kurczak]

That is a very good question.

If you are doing Vedic Astrology the traditional way, yes, you can use a western ephemeris and then subtract the sidereal ayanamsha you are using to see where those transits are hitting.

Now first of all you are asking about the outer planets which are not typically used in Vedic Astrology. So already we are not talking about standard Jyotish.

However, it has been found that those transits are very important and do have an impact, although you would use them primarily within 3 degrees of the bhava cusp of the house, or planet in question. This sensitive point for the bhava cusps is typically the degree of the ascendant. Example: If the ascendant is 5 degrees of Leo, then the 5 degrees of Virgo would be the sensitive point of the 2nd house, and 5 degrees of Libra would be the sensitive point of the 3rd house etc. However, there are even finer ways to determine these bhava points, but this is close enough for now.

Also, you don't add 23 degrees for sidereal, you subtract it. So your ascendant would be in Pisces, not Aries.

Whether we are using the tropical zodiac or the sidereal zodiac, the transit of Uranus would be there either way, we subtract the ayanamsha from every planet and every placement for sidereal, so even though it is possible for the houses to fall differently, they will still fall within 3 degrees of each other at the same time in both zodiacs.

Why don't you feel it? Well it depends on what your birth chart looks like. If Uranus isn't situated in your birth chart, so as to make you sensitive to those transits, you won't feel it. You need to see what planets or points in your birth chart are sensitive to transits. You determine this by seeing which planets or points are very close to the outer planets within the birth chart.

If your chart has the Moon within 3 degrees of Uranus, or if the Moon is in Pisces 15 degrees, and Uranus is in Gemini at 17 degrees (this is an angular aspect), that would make the Moon sensitive to Uranus. Then you'd feel those transits or aspects to the Moon. Beyond that 3 degrees you wouldn't feel it much.

 

[astropsychologist]

Sorry for the late reply.
Thank you for that Ryan, some of that is still beyond me, I think i need to stick to getting my head around the basics for now. Your book has just arrived so Im looking forward to getting into it!