waybread
Well-known member
Raven, it's great to see you back!!
Flapjacks wrote:
Sun square Pluto, in my book, is a really difficult natal aspect. It can make it difficult for the natives to develop trust; in part because Pluto rules people who seem inherently mistrustful. An authority figure like a father may be domineering, even bullying; and something about him is not completely on the level. Primarily, he looks out for #1, and not the interests of the child or subordinate, except insofar as the child/student/or employee can support his own interests.
This isn't to say that the Plutonian "other" is objectively untrustworthy, but that he will come across this way to the native--who will have some evidence to support her mistrust. The Plutonian male seems authoritarian, bullying, under-handed, unchangeable, and somehow secretive or under-worldly.
Natally I have Pluto and Saturn opposite sun. Both are wide, but their midpoint is right on my sun. (Note that each planetary pair has both a near and far midpoint.)
I've read several threads on sun-Pluto, and came across only one person with Pluto opposite sun who claimed a good and trusting relationship with his father. Most of these relationships were truly dysfunctional.
Our challenge is to own our own Pluto natures. I was raised to be a well-behaved, good little girl, so the raw, brutal energies associated with Pluto seemed horrifying to me. Strangely, after I left home, I had bosses and co-workers who fit Pluto's mold. Some of them were out to destroy my career, and I had evidence to prove it.
But modern astrology teaches that we either (a) own the positive side of our planets, (b) exhibit the negative traits of our planets, or (c) disown unwanted planets' energies. The archetypes typified by the disowned planets become Jungian "shadow material," split off from our sense of self and projected into other people. Then we wonder why (in this instance) we attract Plutonian people to us! It is because the horoscope will "out" in one way or another.
The cure is to acknowledge that we are all of the planets in our chart, and to work with those parts of us that are also Plutonian. Thankfully, sun-Pluto can be translated as our ongoing stand for self (sun) transformation (Pluto.) We need not become the bully or mean drunk ourselves, but we have to look at how "the way out is the way through."
People with trines, sextiles, and certain conjunctions of sun-Pluto seem to have a more functional relationship with Pluto. I've come across some, however, who are truly into dominating other people. It's just that it goes well for them! Sun quintile Pluto people seem to be driven by enormous ambition.
I highly recommend Steven Forrest, The Book of Pluto.
Flapjacks wrote:
As far as paternal side of things go, I don't know what it means to really have a father or feel supported by a male. That kind of relationship has always been somewhat mythical, although I've had good mentoring relationships with some men, and I love my partner, but it's not really the same thing. With authorities, it's always felt it more of a relationship of equals in many ways, or an imbalance of power... if only because I've never had the illusion of authority figures being great and wise, but more often troubled, lost and even pitiful in the case of my stepfather.
Sun square Pluto, in my book, is a really difficult natal aspect. It can make it difficult for the natives to develop trust; in part because Pluto rules people who seem inherently mistrustful. An authority figure like a father may be domineering, even bullying; and something about him is not completely on the level. Primarily, he looks out for #1, and not the interests of the child or subordinate, except insofar as the child/student/or employee can support his own interests.
This isn't to say that the Plutonian "other" is objectively untrustworthy, but that he will come across this way to the native--who will have some evidence to support her mistrust. The Plutonian male seems authoritarian, bullying, under-handed, unchangeable, and somehow secretive or under-worldly.
Natally I have Pluto and Saturn opposite sun. Both are wide, but their midpoint is right on my sun. (Note that each planetary pair has both a near and far midpoint.)
I've read several threads on sun-Pluto, and came across only one person with Pluto opposite sun who claimed a good and trusting relationship with his father. Most of these relationships were truly dysfunctional.
Our challenge is to own our own Pluto natures. I was raised to be a well-behaved, good little girl, so the raw, brutal energies associated with Pluto seemed horrifying to me. Strangely, after I left home, I had bosses and co-workers who fit Pluto's mold. Some of them were out to destroy my career, and I had evidence to prove it.
But modern astrology teaches that we either (a) own the positive side of our planets, (b) exhibit the negative traits of our planets, or (c) disown unwanted planets' energies. The archetypes typified by the disowned planets become Jungian "shadow material," split off from our sense of self and projected into other people. Then we wonder why (in this instance) we attract Plutonian people to us! It is because the horoscope will "out" in one way or another.
The cure is to acknowledge that we are all of the planets in our chart, and to work with those parts of us that are also Plutonian. Thankfully, sun-Pluto can be translated as our ongoing stand for self (sun) transformation (Pluto.) We need not become the bully or mean drunk ourselves, but we have to look at how "the way out is the way through."
People with trines, sextiles, and certain conjunctions of sun-Pluto seem to have a more functional relationship with Pluto. I've come across some, however, who are truly into dominating other people. It's just that it goes well for them! Sun quintile Pluto people seem to be driven by enormous ambition.
I highly recommend Steven Forrest, The Book of Pluto.