Sun in 12th house absent/dead father figure?

waterbaby12

Well-known member
I read somewhere people with their sun in the 12th house either have an absent/dead/unhealthy relationship with their father figure?

I myself have my sun in the 12th house and had a very unhealthy relationship with my father and now absent...

thoughts?
 

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obsidianmineral

Well-known member
I read somewhere people with their sun in the 12th house either have an absent/dead/unhealthy relationship with their father figure?

I myself have my sun in the 12th house and had a very unhealthy relationship with my father and now absent...

thoughts?

The placement by itself doesn't mean you will either have an absent father or bad relationship with your dad. I believe astrology is next to useless and that it's full of empty words unless you get more and more specific and less general. You see, since each sign, house and planet can signify a good number of things by itself and since all of the signs share some common characteristics, (there are signs that are more like others, but still) astrology can apply to pretty much anyone. You can say "you feel insecure sometimes" and I bet you that more than 80% of the population would say that's true.


Astrology has its starting point at general terms such as Sun in Pisces, Sun in the 12th, Jupiter in the 9th house.. etc. but it manages to get less general when you start adding aspects, dispositors, houses combined with signs and planets... etc. and everything added up in a natal chart. Meaning that you need to consider a chart as a whole in order to be able to judge what you have on your hands (which is your chart)
 

Mister Skeleton

Active member
I don't think it always means a dead or absent father figure. You gotta see what aspects it makes to other planets, as well taking a look at what's in the 4th house and the condition of the 4th house's ruler. (I've read before that the 4th house rules the father, while the 10th house rules the mother, which to me is kind of odd since I thought it was supposed to be the reverse.)
But anyway, my father's still alive, and he wasn't absent in my childhood, at least not physically, emotionally yes, but I think that has more to do with my Sun square Saturn, and not because it's in the 12th. My relationship with him has gotten a lot better as I got older.

P.S Saturn is also said to represent the father figure, so that's another planet you gotta take a look at. I also wanted to mention that my father has been very supportive of my goals. He's still emotionally distant, yet at the same time he actually takes the time to listen and understand now, which is something that's changed about him.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Absolutely not. My daughter's father has been loving and supportive, and she has a 12th house sun.

I have read about the absent father figure with Saturn in the 12th but I think you'd want to inquire further in the chart as a whole. Traditionally the sun rules the father in a day chart, and Saturn rules the father in a night chart. Traditionally the 4th house and IC indicates the father, but in modern astrology it's more likely to be the mother. Regardless, your MC/IC axis should give further indications.

I have found that Pluto opposite sun indicates a dysfunctional relationship with the father, but then no astrological signature works 100%.
 

Cupid Arrow

Well-known member
Absolutely not. My daughter's father has been loving and supportive, and she has a 12th house sun.

I have read about the absent father figure with Saturn in the 12th but I think you'd want to inquire further in the chart as a whole. Traditionally the sun rules the father in a day chart, and Saturn rules the father in a night chart. Traditionally the 4th house and IC indicates the father, but in modern astrology it's more likely to be the mother. Regardless, your MC/IC axis should give further indications.

I have found that Pluto opposite sun indicates a dysfunctional relationship with the father, but then no astrological signature works 100%.

I thought Saturn and the Sun rule the father, didn't matter if it was day or night?
 

muchacho

Well-known member
Father in general - Sun, Saturn, 4th, 10th. Sometimes you'll see 10th for father of a man and 4th for father of a woman or 4th for parents. So looking at your chart, Sun in 12th, Saturn in 12th and Mercury as ruler of 4th in 12th makes it rather obvious.
 

Mister Skeleton

Active member
Isn't Pluto in the 2nd house linked to a dead and/or absent father?

Nope, I have a friend who has that placement and his father's been around since the moment he was born. One of the things that it can mean, however, is that the person has an obsession with attaining wealth, which he has.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

I don't think it always means a dead or absent father figure.

You gotta see what aspects it makes to other planets,
as well taking a look at what's in the 4th house and the condition of the 4th house's ruler.
(I've read before that the 4th house rules the father,
while the 10th house rules the mother, which to me is kind of odd since I thought it was supposed to be the reverse.)

But anyway, my father's still alive, and he wasn't absent in my childhood,
at least not physically, emotionally yes, but I think that has more to do
with my Sun square Saturn, and not because it's in the 12th.
My relationship with him has gotten a lot better as I got older.

P.S Saturn is also said to represent the father figure,
so that's another planet you gotta take a look at.
I also wanted to mention that my father has been very supportive of my goals.
He's still emotionally distant, yet at the same time he actually takes the time to listen
and understand now, which is something that's changed about him.
Saturn representing the father figure is from a very ancient source
more than two thousand years ago

Vettius Valens wrote in THE ANTHOLOGY http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius%20valens%20entire.pdf
FREE translation viewable courtesy of Professor Riley California State University

QUOTE

"....Amongst Saturn significations is the rulership of others’ children....." :smile:
Vettius Valens - THE ANTHOLOGY
 

Mister Skeleton

Active member
Saturn representing the father figure is from a very ancient source
more than two thousand years ago

Vettius Valens wrote in THE ANTHOLOGY http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius%20valens%20entire.pdf
FREE translation viewable courtesy of Professor Riley California State University

QUOTE

"....Amongst Saturn significations is the rulership of others’ children....." :smile:
Vettius Valens - THE ANTHOLOGY

Interesting. You really do learn something new everyday. :smile: So if it's from an ancient source written so long ago does it still count in figuring out a person's father or not anymore?
 

Abby83

Well-known member
I read somewhere people with their sun in the 12th house either have an absent/dead/unhealthy relationship with their father figure?

I myself have my sun in the 12th house and had a very unhealthy relationship with my father and now absent...

thoughts?

You explained my relationship with my father perfectly and I have sun and Saturn in the 12th house, so I agree. In the 'END' it was a blessing to have him away because having someone like him around would have meant id attract the same type of man in my life, which I didn't, but still it was the most scarring thing in my life.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Interesting. You really do learn something new everyday. :smile:
So if it's from an ancient source written so long ago
does it still count in figuring out a person's father or not anymore?
Indeed, the "something new" IS from a very ancient source
and even today
Traditionally
people signified by Saturn include the father
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/saturn_att.html

by the way

from the same ancient source http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/vettius%20valens%20entire.pdf
i.e.
Vettius Valens THE ANTHOLOGY states that:

THE SUN
In a nativity
indicates kingship, rule, loftiness of fortune, public reputation, authority over the masses
the father
the master,
noble personages
honors
rule over one’s country and over other places
and that remains so for todays astrologers

Siriusly ..... seems 'there is nothing new under the sun'

 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Absolutely not. My daughter's father has been loving and supportive, and she has a 12th house sun.

I have read about the absent father figure with Saturn in the 12th
but I think you'd want to inquire further in the chart as a whole.
Traditionally the sun rules the father in a day chart, and Saturn rules the father in a night chart.
Traditionally the 4th house and IC indicates the father,
but in modern astrology it's more likely to be the mother.
Regardless, your MC/IC axis should give further indications.

I thought Saturn and the Sun rule the father,
didn't matter if it was day or night?

Correct
:smile:


"Day chart" or "Night Chart" is an HELLENISTIC astrology consideration
used to determine initially which planets are "for Team Native"
and which planets are "opposing Team Native"
i.e.
when Sun is above horizon aka "a Day chart"
then
Sun, Jupiter and Saturn are "for Team Native"


when Sun is below horizon aka "a Night chart"
then
Moon, Venus and Mars are "opposing Team Native"


for anyone interested
HELLENISTIC DELINEATION thread
discussion on our Traditional board
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43920
 
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waterbaby12

Well-known member
You explained my relationship with my father perfectly and I have sun and Saturn in the 12th house, so I agree. In the 'END' it was a blessing to have him away because having someone like him around would have meant id attract the same type of man in my life, which I didn't, but still it was the most scarring thing in my life.


It hasn't so much as scarred me but it has probably affected me in ways that will manifest during my life. astrology is amazing isn't it...
 

nestamook

Member
I have a 12th house stellium in Capricorn. Both Sun and Saturn in the 12th. My father was not in my life during my childhood. No planets in the 4th or 10th (also related to the father at times??) I didn't have a healthy relationship with him until I was 22. My darkest moments of this life surround my father. Through these experiences I found God, our Father.

Love & Light
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I have a 12th house stellium in Capricorn.
Both Sun and Saturn in the 12th.
My father was not in my life during my childhood.
No planets in the 4th or 10th (also related to the father at times??)
I didn't have a healthy relationship with him until I was 22.
The 12th house represents matters that are hidden
restrained, secret
incapable of action or of being fully understood.
Traditionally, however, it is a wholly unfortunate house
associated with sad events, sorrow, anguish of mind, tribulation
captivity, imprisonment, persecution, hard labour
all manner of affliction and self-undoing.
It represents places that are denied access to public view
particularly those concerned with seclusion or isolation
or where one is restricted from living a carefree life-style, such as institutions or prisons.
It has rulership over scandals generally
personal fears and skeletons in the family closet.
12th house significations include secret, unknown enemies
such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours or inform secretly against them
traitors, spies
weakness, infirmity and bondage.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html




My darkest moments of this life surround my father.
Through these experiences I found God, our Father.

Love & Light
Many sources attribute monasteries to the 12th house as places of isolation :smile:
but otherwise monks and nuns belong to the 9th house
which represents religious concerns.
 

waybread

Well-known member
While I think it's entirely possible that someone with a 12th house Saturn had an absent father, or that the father relationship was troubled, you'd want further confirmation elsewhere in the chart. The sun rules the father in a day birth; and the 4th house-- not the 12th (or the 10th) -- is the traditional house of the father.

Traditionally Saturn "joys" in the 12th house, and the Hellenistic astrologers thought that if Saturn is going to appear somewhere in your chart, the 12th wasn't such a bad place for it.
 
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