Sun destroyed by South Node conjunction

WannaBeSag

Active member
South Node is conjunct my Gemini Sun in the 9th
Opposes NN conjunct Eros in Sagittarius in the 3rd
Both squared by Jupiter in Pisces from 5/6th
Aspects are all very tight...0-2 degrees.

I'd really appreciate your input on this!

Chart: http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=3;btyp=w2at&nhor=2
 

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Osamenor

Staff member
I was going to post the instructions for posting your chart, then saw Bina beat me to it.

Based on what you've shared about your chart, nodes have a few different meanings. South node can indeed represent what you've already learned. It's associated with past lives--that can mean literal past lives if you believe in reincarnation, or it can mean what you're carrying forward from your ancestral past: attitudes, beliefs, etc. handed down from your ancestors, from your parents all the way back to the proverbial Adam and Eve.

There's also a whole other school of thought, in both Vedic and Western astrology, that describes the north node as magnifying everything and the south node as shrinking everything. North node is the dragon's head: it eats but doesn't digest, it's always hungry for more. Natal planets conjunct the north node have their influence magnified. When planets transit the north node, or when the north node transits a planet in your natal chart, their influence is magnified for you during the transit.

South node is the dragon's tail: it eliminates. Planets conjunct the south node have their influence muted somewhat, kind of as if they were retrograde or in detriment. If a planet conjunct the south node is also retrograde and/or in detriment (which your sun is not), then it's even more so.

There's yet another layer to that, though. North node magnifies everything because its influence is brought out into the material world. South node connects us with the spiritual world. If you have sun conjunct the south node, your ego growth (that's what the sun represents) has more to do with spirituality than with worldly success. It is probably much more important to you to follow your own path, even if it includes poverty, than to be ambitious, succeed, become wealthy.

You may be religious, or not-religious-but-spiritual, or not call yourself religious or spiritual, but still have a sense of calling or searching. However you view it, there is something spiritual about your deepest needs and desires. Focusing on career success, making money, etc. won't satisfy your purpose at all. That doesn't mean you can never have money or career success, just that you need something else to be your main focus.

Looking at it from a past life perspective, sun conjunct the south node means you were a larger than life person in your previous incarnation(s), or that you're carrying the ancestral influence of people who were. Sun in this case represents a person who others revolve around, who draws people to them, who is a leader, either out in front of the crowd or through strong influence behind the scenes.

The combination of Gemini and the ninth house suggests a teacher or spiritual leader (ninth house), who draws people in through what they say (Gemini). Considering that your north node is in Sagittarius in the third house, your path for this life is similar. Third house has similar meanings to Gemini, and Sagittarius has similar meanings to the ninth house. Jupiter square is also relevant, but that's a subject for another post, if you're interested.
 

WannaBeSag

Active member
Thank you Osamenor for your insightful post, even without seeing my whole chart. Wow, I'm so impressed.

I absolutely believe in something. I know something is there, but I'm not religious, or would call myself spiritual. There's often something drawing me to be materialistic I'm afraid...I wonder and I'd be so curious to hear what you've got to say about the Jupiter...it is a clue for this right?

Looking at it from a past life perspective, sun conjunct the south node means you were a larger than life person in your previous incarnation(s), or that you're carrying the ancestral influence of people who were. Sun in this case represents a person who others revolve around, who draws people to them, who is a leader, either out in front of the crowd or through strong influence behind the scenes.

The combination of Gemini and the ninth house suggests a teacher or spiritual leader (ninth house), who draws people in through what they say (Gemini). Considering that your north node is in Sagittarius in the third house, your path for this life is similar. Third house has similar meanings to Gemini, and Sagittarius has similar meanings to the ninth house.

That is the problem? So my path in this life is similar to previous lifetimes? Or do I need to change something? I've just gone though a professional defeat. I feel like hiding at the moment, I have no message for anyone, I just want to retreat. I wonder if I should try getting onto my soapbox again?
 

waybread

Well-known member
From a pragmatic, modern astrology position, no of course the SN doesn't destroy your sun. The NN shows where your growth lies. The SN shows your comfort zone. You may actually be good at what your SN represents, yet there's no personal growth for you there, so if you dwell in it too much, you're apt to stagnate. The NN pushes you out of your comfort zone.

I could imagine, for example, someone with the sun and SN in Gemini in the 9th house of higher education becoming a "perpetual student." (Grad schools are full of them.) Someone who enjoys learning, but is unwilling to move beyond academia into the real world of work. Or it might be the perpetual long-haul world traveler who learns enormously from his/her travels, when the real personal growth might be closer to home. (3rd house= one's neighbourhood.)

Your nodal aspect isn't so badly aspected. But you might find in some smaller way, the need to dis-identify (sun) with your comfort zone (SN.)
 
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WannaBeSag

Active member
Thank you waybread for sharing your insights! I appreciate it and you're totally right...

I'm always studying something... tarot, drawing, astrology etc but thankfully I managed to finish grad school in time and I work, but with lots of time for my own projects. I never want to travel but enjoy myself once I arrived. I also settled overseas.

You say the nodal aspect isn't so badly aspected. Do you mean the Sun conjunction? Isn't it a heavy influence dissolving my ego and convincing me I’m somehow special? I've been living dangerously for a very long time and I think it was because of this... but I guess it also made me stronger, and I needed that. Anyway, I've learned ways to deal with this lunacy now.

And when you say I need to misidentify with my comfort zone, isn't Gemini in 9th very similar to Sagittarius in the 3rd? The only difference I can see is that the Gemini 9th is more aloof in an ivory tower and the Sag 3rd is on the marketplace on a soapbox?

And I really wanted to shine in this lifetime. Ah well!
 
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Chillaxer

Well-known member
Gemini in 9th and Sag in 3rd, plus the nodes, that's tough, and very interesting.

Both houses in their 'opposite' signs. Must be a real balancing act.

So a detail oriented, communicative, lower mind approach in the area of philosophy, the journey of life, far destinations, spirituality, natural law, and meaning is your tendency, and your evolutionary path is an expansive, explorative, risk taking, philosophical, optimistic approach in the local area, communications, connections, and the acquisition of language.

Bit hard to decipher.

I have Sun on the SN as well, as you saw. Mine's worse though being NN ruler, and having maybe more planets around the SN. I think with these type of charts it must be to do with balancing the polarity and the energies right, and mayeb not trying to outright move away from a tendency so much, as it's impossible..perhaps more about integrating both energies, using the NN to make sure your SN/Sun traits don't fall into their worst expression, are made to their best to benefit the rest of the chart?
 

waybread

Well-known member
Thanks. A good aphorism is that, "The stars impel, but they do not compel."

Put differently, a horoscope places certain boundaries on our lives, but within those boundaries, we have a lot of flexibility and choices to make.

In the modern astrology I practice there aren't any innately bad planets or points in the chart. I do not subscribe to a heavy fatalism or determinism.

The south node is simply your comfort zone, where you're coming from, what you've mastered or what comes easily or naturally to you. This can be very helpful, but you can stagnate in this area if you stay in it too long. Your growth lies with your north node, even where it seems very out of character. (Or maybe because it seems out of character.)

I don't know what kind of dangerous living you're doing: hopefully not drugs, because with Neptune opposite sun, this is a risk. With sun square Jupiter, you may feel that, "If a little is good, a lot is better." With moon square Uranus, your moods and feelings are apt to change suddenly, and you may crave novelty for its own sake. Uranus square Mars can be a real dare-devil! (Do you jump motorcycles over cliffs for fun, or something?)

But you're not a youngster anymore. Hopefully, these days, you look to a more profound meaning of the 9th house: wisdom and developing a mature life philosophy.
 

WannaBeSag

Active member
I have Sun on the SN as well, as you saw. Mine's worse though being NN ruler, and having maybe more planets around the SN. I think with these type of charts it must be to do with balancing the polarity and the energies right, and mayeb not trying to outright move away from a tendency so much, as it's impossible..perhaps more about integrating both energies, using the NN to make sure your SN/Sun traits don't fall into their worst expression, are made to their best to benefit the rest of the chart?

Oh! I didn't notice you had the SN/Sun conjunction as well. You are onto something...we have to find balance. It's not all or nothing. That's my MO as well. Yes, and for you with Sun conjunct SN being the ruler of the NN. How do you interpret that? I guess you've said it already...it's all about balance as you won't ever be able to move absolutely away from the SN?

And I think I take that away also for me...with the SN/NN in opposite signs in their opposite houses it's the same:

I can't leave my Gemini SN traits behind completely as my NN is in the 3rd, the Gemini house! God I love that. Super convenient! And on top of that: move away from 9th house Sagittarius matters to embrace my NN in Sagittarius. A fool's errand.

I need to write down practical examples of this, it's so abstract. I'll post this also in aspects later, for everyone who has this nodal/opposite sign house issue. We can't be the only ones with a confusing SN/NN message, Chillaxer?!
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
I'm always studying something... tarot, drawing, copywriting, astrology etc but thankfully I managed to finish grad school in time and I work, but with lots of time for my own projects. I never want to travel but enjoy myself once I arrived. I also settled overseas.

Hi
Another astrological perspective you might care to consider.

I don't agree with the leave the S.N. for the N.N. idea when it means cutting ties. If both are seen as stepping stones crossing the expanse of life from two different sides, there is definitely a need of the springboard of a S.N. to jump towards, take in, and and reach the N.N, isn't there?

The 'springboard' would appear to be a settling abroad as a means of ' expansion of spirit', that is suggestive of a 9th house position.
I have some personal experience here with a 9th house Sun in Taurus (and Moon in Capricorn!). Where I laid down foreign roots, they stayed for the duration. Yet Gemini isn't inclined in that way; it's a wanderer of spirit and mind that can be sociably flexible or unsettled of nature. Under a Gemini influence it may not be one single place in a lifetime. but many different towns, places, and people from different races, cultures, and walks of life, each of which produces an effect that motivates one's own life. Your pseudonym would seem to say what you want that to be!:smile:

You could ask yourself what your experiences so far are teaching you about yourself. What was the need that took you from your country of birth in order to facilitate their growth by broadening your personal outlook
regarding the situations with which they have confronted you? How far does Gemini's ruler, Mercury, in conjunction with Saturn, ruler 4th house, in Cancer play a part in this growth?

I absolutely believe in something. I know something is there, but I'm not religious, or would call myself spiritual. There's often something drawing me to be materialistic I'm afraid

The effect of the Earth planet influences that need physical proof before the individual can believe totally (in) anything? What happens when that belief does not meet with one's expectations that are shattered (Moon- Uranus) in and by those situations which bring about disillusionment and disappointment (Venus-Neptune) in one's personal life? How would this effect the purely personal beliefs and faith in one's self (Sun trine UR;T-square SU-JU-NE), yet which others may not share because they are made from a different mould with a different perspective of life?

Gemini is the sign of many talents; it does not designate its life to move in one upward and specified direction as does Sagittarius. Life with all its glowing facets is far too interesting. It 'shines' in other ways.

There is a saying', 'Know Thyself' which is strongly associated with Sagittarius. Maybe that is the path towards a NN; the yellow brick road (and its companions) which a SN Gemini can take to reach it?

(Note that Uranus opposition is occuring. That brings about a change of direction in itself.)

:smile:
 

WannaBeSag

Active member
Oh waybread... I knew there’s something amiss in my chart in terms of balance, but I never knew I had SO MANY crazy aspects. Everything you said above is true, apart from the motorcycle cliff jumping (but insert similar)…so uncanny. I’ve always been addicted, excessive, fearless, and reckless. I've rarely met someone in my life as bad. And I’m not saying this as if I think it’s a good thing, but deep down I chuckle at that, it’s all a bit twisted to be fair. I’ve got redeeming qualities as well :)

Not sure why I phrased it as if I still live dangerously - I don’t! I guess because it’s all bubbling away and could break out at any time. But I’m controlling that part of me…You’d help me a lot if you could point me in the direction of a planet in my chart helping me with that? I’m together now and make sure I have a very balanced life and mind…I have to admit it does take strength, but I’ve actually got responsibilities…

Hopefully, these days, you look to a more profound meaning of the 9th house: wisdom and developing a mature life philosophy.

As I’ve explained…seeking wisdom and maturity is crucial for me getting through that dark side…but I refuse to believe that’s the purpose of my life…there’s got to be more than that! I want to have a purpose of life with an action plan attached to it. Something tangible, something I can build with my hands.

Lastly, thank you a million for your interpretations, you are really helping me see.
 

WannaBeSag

Active member
Thank you so much for your reply Frisianangel! I appreciate your thoughts, and it's a lot to take in.

I don't agree with the leave the S.N. for the N.N. idea when it means cutting ties. If both are seen as stepping stones crossing the expanse of life from two different sides, there is definitely a need of the springboard of a S.N. to jump towards, take in, and and reach the N.N, isn't there?
I’m liking that approach more and more. It sounds logical.

The 'springboard' would appear to be a settling abroad as a means of ' expansion of spirit', that is suggestive of a 9th house position.
I have some personal experience here with a 9th house Sun in Taurus (and Moon in Capricorn!). Where I laid down foreign roots, they stayed for the duration. Yet Gemini isn't inclined in that way; it's a wanderer of spirit and mind that can be sociably flexible or unsettled of nature. Under a Gemini influence it may not be one single place in a lifetime. but many different towns, places, and people from different races, cultures, and walks of life, each of which produces an effect that motivates one's own life. Your pseudonym would seem to say what you want that to be!:smile:
Ha another Cap Moon, hi!

9th house Sun in Taurus does lay down roots…do you think you’ll stay where you are forever? 9th house Sun in Gemini is a different story…And you are so perceptive! It’s true that I’ve been living in a few different countries actually. I’ve been wandering around since I my mid twenties, always by myself looking for the next thing, sometimes running away…I feel settled here now too but could move on any time.


You could ask yourself what your experiences so far are teaching you about yourself. What was the need that took you from your country of birth in order to facilitate their growth by broadening your personal outlook regarding the situations with which they have confronted you? How far does Gemini's ruler, Mercury, in conjunction with Saturn, ruler 4th house, in Cancer play a part in this growth?
I need to re-read this bit a few more times as I’m not so sure what is meant?


The effect of the Earth planet influences that need physical proof before the individual can believe totally (in) anything? What happens when that belief does not meet with one's expectations that are shattered (Moon- Uranus) in and by those situations which bring about disillusionment and disappointment (Venus-Neptune) in one's personal life? How would this effect the purely personal beliefs and faith in one's self (Sun trine UR;T-square SU-JU-NE), yet which others may not share because they are made from a different mould with a different perspective of life?
And I’m struggling with this bit…so I have in my natal chart shattered expectations, disillusion, disappointment in my personal life? The Sun-Jupiter-Neptune is am interesting one..

Gemini is the sign of many talents; it does not designate its life to move in one upward and specified direction as does Sagittarius. Life with all its glowing facets is far too interesting. It 'shines' in other ways.

There is a saying', 'Know Thyself' which is strongly associated with Sagittarius. Maybe that is the path towards a NN; the yellow brick road (and its companions) which a SN Gemini can take to reach it?

(Note that Uranus opposition is occuring. That brings about a change of direction in itself.)

:smile:

Do you mean my Uranus Chiron opposition? What do you mean by change of direction?

Also, you've pointed me in the direction of the T-Square and reading up on it helps! I have three of these T-Squares if you count the Jupiter/Sun/Nodes one. Right.

So thank you Frisianangel for all your insights, even though I’m now asking loads of questions…


xx
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Thanks for the feedback. These are just some ideas:

A strong planet in your chart is Jupiter. It is domiciled in the traditional sign of its rulership, Pisces, and on the cusp of your 6th house of service. It rules the cusp of the house of your NN of personal growth, and has a lot of affinity with 9th house matters.

Venus, in its own sign of Taurus, is strong as well.

I think it's a huge step forward to recognize that your life has to be about more than whatever wild oats you were sowing as a younger person.

Unless or until you determine what that "something" is, I highly recommend service to other people. Your NN in the third house suggests something in your neighbourhood. Your Capricorn moon knows how to help people in a very practical way. You can probably convert your former experiences On the Wild Side to helping people who are experiencing its hard edges just now. I don't know if hospice work has any appeal to you, but if you are unafraid of life's end, that Venus in the 8th house seems like a big asset.

"When I don't know who I am, I serve you. When I know who I am, I am you." (from the Hindu scripture Ramayana.)
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I absolutely believe in something. I know something is there, but I'm not religious, or would call myself spiritual. There's often something drawing me to be materialistic I'm afraid...I wonder and I'd be so curious to hear what you've got to say about the Jupiter...it is a clue for this right?
Materialistic or spiritual is not an either/or choice. They're two sides of the same coin. To look at it in astrological terms, all of us have a north node and a south node. All of us have a need for both material things and the intangible and mysterious, too. On a deeper level, both the north node and the south node are about where the material and the spiritual meet. Planets conjunct one or the other tell us which side of the coin works for you in what ways, but they don't diminish the importance of the other side of the coin.

It is also said that the north node has to do with individualizing, and the south node with the collective whole. For that reason, Vedic astrology, which comes from a collectivist culture, considers the north node to be malefic and the south node benefic, while Western astrology, coming from an individualist culture, reverses that.

That said, if we read the nodes from a past life/future direction perspective, sometimes the south node picture looks very individualistic and the north node speaks to a need to incorporate some more relationship, cooperation, and community than you've had before. Sometimes it's the other way around. In most cases, including yours, I don't see individualism versus collectivism having any particular emphasis. It doesn't look like that particular kind of issue is a big one for you.

Your Jupiter is at what's called the north bendings. That means it squares your nodes from the spot after your north node and before your south node, if you trace a path around your chart following the signs in order from Aries to Pisces. If you had that Jupiter square coming from Virgo instead of Pisces, to the same node placements, it would be at the south bendings, falling between your south node and north node.

Planets at the north bendings are somewhat like planets conjunct the north node, in that their influence is magnified and likely to be felt very strongly on the material plane. Jupiter is all about expansion. Its motto is more, more, more! Not only that, it rules your north node (Sagittarius ruler), which is placed in the zodiac's most expansive sign. I'm not surprised that you have some very materialistic desires.

Your sun may speak to a very strong need for speaking, and living, your ideals, whether or not that leads worldly success, but it's also important that whatever you have to say finds form and shape in the material world. It's also important that your material desires be satisfied. However, they need to be satisfied in a way that does not compromise your ideals.

Looking at the nodes from a past/future life perspective, a planet in square to them represents something that hindered you in the past, and that you need to incorporate in order to move to the future. Since in your case the squaring planet is also the ruler of your north node, the message that you need to incorporate this is emphasized. We can discuss further if you're interested.

That is the problem? So my path in this life is similar to previous lifetimes? Or do I need to change something? I've just gone though a professional defeat. I feel like hiding at the moment, I have no message for anyone, I just want to retreat.
All of us go through changes throughout our lives. That's a normal part of living and growing. You are at an age when a need for change is usually felt especially strongly. All of us have Uranus in opposition to its natal position from approximately age 38 to age 43. For you, right now, the Uranus opposition is exact. Uranus is all about change and shaking things up. Its opposition tends to shake things up, create a sense of needing a new direction for the rest of our lives, and usher in a new era.

It's midlife crisis time. Whether or not you experience that as a major, major crisis depends on how you handle it. How well you adjust to it, and how well you live the rest of your life, also depends on how you handle it. Some people hit their Uranus opposition and go out and buy the stereotypical red sports car, dye their hair, leave their spouse if they have one, date much younger people, do whatever they can to hold onto their youth. Some people take it as a time to seriously reflect and make changes that serve them well. Your withdrawal right now sounds like the serious reflection time.
I wonder if I should try getting onto my soapbox again?
Again? Have you been on a soapbox in this lifetime? If so, that matches your south node indicators very well. Not a surprise, because when we read the south node as a past life experience, there's always some correlation with the current life.

Your north node does not suggest abandoning your soapbox tendencies for good, just revising and fine tuning them. If you spend some time in retreat, not saying anything when you don't have anything to say, that's a necessary part of the revision process.
 

WannaBeSag

Active member
Thank you Osamenor for your insights. I’m so happy to understand more about my Jupiter…and thanks for explaining North and South bendings…I’m starting to understand.
Jupiter is all about expansion. Its motto is more, more, more! Not only that, it rules your north node (Sagittarius ruler), which is placed in the zodiac's most expansive sign. I'm not surprised that you have some very materialistic desires.
So my Jupiter’s influence is magnified asking for more and more? Sounds so like me. Even though I’m quite frugal, I can be insatiable. I worry about not having enough. I’d never admit this to anyone in real life. I thought having lots of mouths to feed while living in an expensive city made me so materialistic…

And, as you saw, here's the contradiction:

Your sun may speak to a very strong need for speaking, and living, your ideals, whether or not that leads worldly success, but it's also important that whatever you have to say finds form and shape in the material world. It's also important that your material desires be satisfied. However, they need to be satisfied in a way that does not compromise your ideals.
Absolutely! I went to art school and making art was the most important thing for me. I didn’t go for the sensible profession. I blocked out the fact that I may never earn any money, hoping things will work themselves out...which somehow they did.

Still, I have an urge to materialise things: I work with my hands, I make things, I want to sell.

Looking at the nodes from a past/future life perspective, a planet in square to them represents something that hindered you in the past, and that you need to incorporate in order to move to the future. Since in your case the squaring planet is also the ruler of your north node, the message that you need to incorporate this is emphasized. We can discuss further if you're interested.
I’d be eternally grateful to hear more about how to incorporate the Jupiter...he feels a bit of a loose end at the moment.

Again? Have you been on a soapbox in this lifetime?
Oh yes... I sell the things I make, so I market, do PR, blog, and (yuck!) social media. I had enough of this, especially the social media side and I wonder if I should continue? Do you have an insight about this?


Your north node does not suggest abandoning your soapbox tendencies for good, just revising and fine tuning them. If you spend some time in retreat, not saying anything when you don't have anything to say, that's a necessary part of the revision process.
Ok, I'll be silent to revise and fine tune, am working on it.
So far I've gotten here: my SN (Gemini in 9th) is a scholar talking to his people from an ivory tower..I need to get away from this aloofness.
Going towards my NN (Sagittarius in the 3rd) someone living in town, hammering away in his workshop and coming out to the marketplace/soapbox when there's something profound to say?

Thank you again and have a lovely day.
 
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WannaBeSag

Active member
Thank you waybread! I appreciate your guidance.

I hadn’t put the Jupiter/Pisces/Sagittarius rulership together. I need to visualise this properly but it makes a lot of sense to me now.

Venus is very strong, but I like to think Saturn is the strongest in my chart? And thank you for saying nice things about my Capricorn moon...yes, I'm good with practical help.

Oh the 6th house of service! Of course!…it never occurred to me that the Jupiter there reminds me of being of service to others…I’m laughing now at how one sided I’m looking at things…I always thought "others serving me" is indicated here (I’m allowed to level with you right?) Honestly, I never thought "being of service" would come naturally to me? Not saying that I don't help others, of course I do, but professionally? I’ve got a friend who works in a hospice so I know it's crushing… Me doing that? Thank you for your insightful suggestion. I'd be suited for that now that I think of it but it would have never ever crossed my mind…

But my SN is taking over when I think of that and I have to push it away for a few more years. Just not yet… Can’t give myself to a cause like that now, from where I am in my life…

Thanks so much!

Love, JJ
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
Osamenor, I'd love to hear your take on the Jupiter!

Or of course anyone else who has an idea.

I'll give it when I have time. I'm an educator in the real world, and a student, too, and this is end of the semester time in both arenas, so I'm very busy right now. Might take another week or two before I have time. But I haven't forgotten.
 
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