Sun and Moon in 12th House, Help!!

CactusLand

Well-known member
I have had my chart read a few times, but I finally realized yesterday what it meant to have the Sun AND Moon in the 12 house, and Saturn in the 11th

Below is the my chart. I am actually quite disturbed since I understood this, I am not sure how to approach this. It seems the idea of making up for past transgressions has touched a nerve, but it is very depressing to think this life is just about paying back what I did in another life.

Any help dealing with these to alignments would be very much appreciated.

My birthday is JUne 7, 1967 New York, 6.00AM

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/CactusLand/astro_w2at_01_robert_hp1341721890.gif
 
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R4VEN

Well-known member
CactusLand, given you are 44 years of age, you have already endured your Saturn Return (at around 29) and your Uranus Opposition (at around 40-42) and survived them both, so you already have a lot to be thankful for. One piece of advice I will give you is to not believe everything you read or are told in regard to your astrology chart. If something makes you afraid, then either the information is incorrect, or you are harbouring some deep-seated anxiety which may not have anything to do with the chart itself.

Since you are concerned about these 12th house planets, then perhaps you need more information, so that you can use your own filter to determine what to concentrate on for now. This site is rather good in relation to modern/psychological astrology:

http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/BookKarmaHouse12.htm

Be aware also that not everything on that page in relation to Sun and Moon in the 12th will apply to you - and if it does, then not all will be relevant at the same time.

There are a number of males in my immediate family who were born with Sun in the 12th house - 2 of my brothers, 2 nephews, 1 son. I have observed them with interest. I read somewhere recently that those born with Sun in the 12th house have `come in' with a task to face a crisis - which could be physical, psychological, social - the purpose of which is for a major burst in soul growth. Now, I mention this because all 5 members of my family with Sun in the 12th have already experienced this `crisis', and each has benefited magnificently from facing this crisis openly and consciously. One of my brothers experienced (in his early 30's) a crisis related to his work which created the kind of public humiliation from which we would all run a mile. He endured this time in his life with stoicism and dignity, and eventually his name was cleared. One had a significant health crisis - which potentially affected his ability to work, as well as his decision to not have children. The other 3 had significant tests within their personal lives. The youngest of these 5 men is now 35.

I tell you this because not everyone has the endurance and ability to face and withstand a crisis of this kind. Whilst this may not look like this to you, this is a gift...........an opportunity for massive soul growth. For all I know, it is likely that you have already experienced your own `crisis'.
 
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CactusLand

Well-known member
Thank you Raven, that is an excellent site and your examples do make a lot of sense to me. I have had several crisis's but I have survived, and there have been some very good moments, especially on the spiritual side.

I guess what got me was that in general, I think having the Sun and Moon in the 12th house, and Saturn in the 11th, it always seems like I am fighting the crowd, but then again, I have learned to enjoy my solitude, which I seek out quite a bit.

Thanks again for your help.
 

Caro

Well-known member
Why the name Cactus land - is that how you feel about living in a city?

did something major happen around 2006/2007 - pluto would have transitted desc at sagi 24 degrees and saturn was starting to transit your 4th house. did something come out into the open? related to your past or family?

these are usually quite significant transits but added to your natal, sun in gemini sq a pluto/uranus conj in virgo in 4th house, I would say something occurred around this time - not necessarily a apositive time.

there is much debate about 12th house planets. 12th house the house of pisces/unconscious/secrets/hidden stuff/instituitions/prisons/hospitals.

so planets are often seen as surpressed in this house. however many famous people have planets in 12th and many recent politicians including George Bush.

so not so much surpressed as able to access the hidden in society. As Raven says - those with these placings often realise under great pressure the beneficial nature of the planets in this house.

I think the challenge is to bring what ever is hidden in the 12th house out into the open - to release it. by doing so maybe it can impact on society in a beneficial way.
 

CactusLand

Well-known member
Hi Caro,

Thanks for the response... yes, absolutely, 2007 was a horrible year..everything fell apart, and kept falling apart... I would say I barely got through it, but I did get through and turned a very new page... Cactus Land comes from my novel, I self published it through Amazon and it is also the name of my blog, www.thecactusland.com Comes from the poem by TS Eliot, The Hollow Men.

I guess I would really love to know, what would be the "message" of having both Sun and Moon in the 12th house, does the combination mean anything?

Thanks again..
 

Caro

Well-known member
12th house - also house of solitude along with 4th house.

12th house of meditation. so maybe meditate on it?

so instead of running against the masses - maybe you have to lead them. so from your blog you appear to be finding a voice and this is becomng a common theme(what you write on your blog).

sun and moon in gemini - gemini ruled by mercury and your mercury is in the first - and you write a book and a blog. wow!

oh yeah you have the long mars transit to your 4th house will hit your pluto/uranus in Jan. 2012

report back.
 
I have had my chart read a few times, but I finally realized yesterday what it meant to have the Sun AND Moon in the 12 house, and Saturn in the 11th

Below is the my chart. I am actually quite disturbed since I understood this, I am not sure how to approach this. It seems the idea of making up for past transgressions has touched a nerve, but it is very depressing to think this life is just about paying back what I did in another life.

Any help dealing with these to alignments would be very much appreciated.

My birthday is JUne 7, 1967 New York, 6.00AM

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/CactusLand/astro_w2at_01_robert_hp1341721890.gif

perhaps some research into 12th house on HERE will help with actual members that have these same or similar placements...

12th house planets/aspects
http://astroveda.wikidot.com/stars-in-twelfth-house
http://practicalastrology.prettyfedu...uses3.htm#12th
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgtwehouse_e.htm

http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoundation/dkfArtTwelfthHouse.htm
http://www.gotohoroscope.com/houses-in-chart-12th.html
http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoun...rmaHouse12.htm
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/inhouses-sun.html#Twelfth

http://12th.tribe.net/thread/c160721f-6268-42d8-bf31-897977f99188
http://www.astrologyindepth.com/The_12th_house
http://www.myastrologybook.com/Mercury-Venus-in-the-twelfth-house-12th-house.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/venusinhouses.html
youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QhUTcG--1Y&feature=related

Research threads on AW
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43270
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41125&highlight=guardian+angel
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=339098#post339098
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3173&highlight=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19818&highlight=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18312&highlight=12th+house
 
Thank you Raven, that is an excellent site and your examples do make a lot of sense to me. I have had several crisis's but I have survived, and there have been some very good moments, especially on the spiritual side.

I guess what got me was that in general, I think having the Sun and Moon in the 12th house, and Saturn in the 11th, it always seems like I am fighting the crowd, but then again, I have learned to enjoy my solitude, which I seek out quite a bit.

Thanks again for your help.
I use Equal House system (where each cusp is same as Ascendant) and am a modern astrologer. Lots of newcomers come into Astrology/forums and get a free chart from www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few others if you wish to experiment…..

Within the mainstream here on AW of placidus/equal houses (the default on astro is placidus) only difference being some planets may move from one house to another thereby altering it's interpretation and it's 'only' with research will you find which /planets 'fit you' in which houses. So my advice, do two charts, research any planets that move houses and see which you identity with - simple


Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwGtMWl4z4

So saturn would be in10th house Equal House, mars in 4th neptune in 5th and pluto uranus in 4th. Many of these would be conjunct house cusps and anything within 5' would be considered more effective in the next house along going anti clockwise..

Your sun expressions have been modified by squares to pluto (showing problems with father) and square to Uranus. this would add some scorpionic traits and aquarius impatience...

Gemini Asc (along with pisces) is probably one of the most difficult in childhood. I call gemini risers the 'why children' wearing parents down asking questions, why why why. How does this work, why does that do this? sometimes I think parents 'switch off' from constant questions and then the child feel alientated, misunderstood, bit like a square peg in round hole. does this resonate?
 

Fragoso

Well-known member
I have had my chart read a few times, but I finally realized yesterday what it meant to have the Sun AND Moon in the 12 house, and Saturn in the 11th

Below is the my chart. I am actually quite disturbed since I understood this, I am not sure how to approach this. It seems the idea of making up for past transgressions has touched a nerve, but it is very depressing to think this life is just about paying back what I did in another life.

Any help dealing with these to alignments would be very much appreciated.

My birthday is JUne 7, 1967 New York, 6.00AM

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/CactusLand/astro_w2at_01_robert_hp1341721890.gif

Hello.
Sun and moon in 12th....I don't consider these position so bad at all, stop beeing a drama queen.

The 12th house is the house of isolation... Behind the stage. Reclusion. The subcosciente. The house of spirituality.

The house where sun is means the place where your ego must be developed. It's the place where you will find your expression, your true self. Since Sun is in 12th house then you must find for your true self in the reclusion - That's where you will develop it. Of course there is always the danger of lossing your self in the mist or beeing like a chamaleon - which i mean to adapt your personality to the situations. Well as in other house position, there will be a good and a bad side to the planet.
Now to the moon... Moon in 12th might make you trully sentimental - your feelings develop in the reclusion, when you are alone so i woldn't be surprised if you feel a bit depressed or melancolique or even sad - 12th house is very associated to the house of sadness.

My advice: If you accept your condition you will be truly happy and free. There is always something beautiful in sadness, cause after those moments, you can reach the light, the truth and the true happyness.

Fragoso
 

luna7

Well-known member
Hi Caro,

Thanks for the response... yes, absolutely, 2007 was a horrible year..everything fell apart, and kept falling apart... I would say I barely got through it, but I did get through and turned a very new page... Cactus Land comes from my novel, I self published it through Amazon and it is also the name of my blog, www.thecactusland.com Comes from the poem by TS Eliot, The Hollow Men.

I guess I would really love to know, what would be the "message" of having both Sun and Moon in the 12th house, does the combination mean anything?

Thanks again..
I’m going to assume that when you ask is there any message re having the two luminaries, specifically, in the 12th….you are referring to a spiritual perspective: as in, what this lifetime might be about. A good starting point is the nodal axis.
(According to Jodie Forrest), the South Node is intensely familiar territory. In Scorpio, it might suggest that you have incredible resilience to turbulence and even an attraction to situations that catalyse constant growth. The Taurus North node would suggest that it’s time to get you some peace, to resist the temptation to overly dramatise situations (which can obviously be exhausting).
Enter the Sun & Moon: powerful personal energies to help your Taurean North Node’s dharmic requirement…..to simplify.
They are in the 12th house, which is variously referred to as the place where we escape from reality & where we escape to reality. Your Sun & Moon placement there imply that your reality should include some time out, solitude. Gemini is endlessly curious, so for you this may involve being curious about what one does when one is by oneself, or even what one does when there is only one other; what happens to all the chatter; listen to the silence; tune into the unconscious. I think the 12th house sounds like the perfect place to recover from the amount of shock / growth implied by your South Node. It’s also a great place to get that writing done.
There is quite a bit more to your specific nodal story (squares to Venus/Jupiter from the nodes), but I really do think the message of the Sun/Moon combination in 12th IS a significant part of that story.
 

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CactusLand

Well-known member
Hello.
Sun and moon in 12th....I don't consider these position so bad at all, stop beeing a drama queen.

The 12th house is the house of isolation... Behind the stage. Reclusion. The subcosciente. The house of spirituality.

The house where sun is means the place where your ego must be developed. It's the place where you will find your expression, your true self. Since Sun is in 12th house then you must find for your true self in the reclusion - That's where you will develop it. Of course there is always the danger of lossing your self in the mist or beeing like a chamaleon - which i mean to adapt your personality to the situations. Well as in other house position, there will be a good and a bad side to the planet.
Now to the moon... Moon in 12th might make you trully sentimental - your feelings develop in the reclusion, when you are alone so i woldn't be surprised if you feel a bit depressed or melancolique or even sad - 12th house is very associated to the house of sadness.

My advice: If you accept your condition you will be truly happy and free. There is always something beautiful in sadness, cause after those moments, you can reach the light, the truth and the true happyness.

Fragoso

Hi Fragoso,

Very well said..I suppose I was being a bit of a drama queen, but it was a bit shocking to understand for the first time what the 12th house meant, and to realize I had my sun and moon their, not to mention the Saturn in the 11th...Solitude and tumultuous friendships, the feeling of no good deed goes unpunished, from friends and colleagues, lots of political difficulties at work, more than a few secret enemies. For the longest time I beat myself up about this, but now it begins to make sense.

I think this is the beauty of astrology, that it can help explain to some degree the the absurdities of life, as well as why the universe seems to nudge us in a different direction than "we want". In my case, I can truly say I never hit my stride till I embraced my 12th house (I had no idea what the 12th house was than), gave up, in a strange, dramatic way, what was a rather successful career in advertising, and dedicated myself to writing. After a year or so I started having some success, and feel like I had small voice, but a voice nonetheless in some important movements that are still playing out.

But, never one to have a loyal following, mentors or die-hard allies, I have been nudged along. I have said what I had to say about politics and economics, and now it is time to hunker down and begin work on novel four.

A very wonderful thing has happened too, in the last few months, is a return to interest in the occult. It has been an oasis for me, and will play a part in the new novel.

The secrets of how money is created, why we fight the wars we do, media manipulation, those were easy ones, but the esoteric secrets are think hold the final key. Many, many people's minds are being opened, and we are all beginning to seriously question the "official version" of history, economics, money, science, culture and of course religion... the alternate versions are slowly becoming mainstream, and we are in that transition period...As we realize that the official "spiritual" stories are simple social control, more and more people will turn to the occult, myself included.

Thanks again for your thoughts, I found them very insightful.
 

selfless

Banned
saw ur chart...u were born on a Moonless Night..
Jupiter is strong in ur chart..u are under the influence of Jupiter till July 2015.. wishing u a good life...
 

Vista

Well-known member
I have had my chart read a few times, but I finally realized yesterday what it meant to have the Sun AND Moon in the 12 house, and Saturn in the 11th

Below is the my chart. I am actually quite disturbed since I understood this, I am not sure how to approach this. It seems the idea of making up for past transgressions has touched a nerve, but it is very depressing to think this life is just about paying back what I did in another life.

Any help dealing with these to alignments would be very much appreciated.

My birthday is JUne 7, 1967 New York, 6.00AM

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/CactusLand/astro_w2at_01_robert_hp1341721890.gif
Robert Hand uses Whole House System which would place your Sun and Moon in the 1st house. Just FYI. I look at Gemini Moon's as being very "chatty" type of people, actually from my experience, very funny, although the ruler Mercury placed in Cancer, people might have to get to know you to see this side of you. I am curious about your 6:00am birth time. It's rare to be born exactly on the hour or half hour which makes me curious if you got this from your birth certificate? If this is accurate, I see you have Uranus and Pluto in your 4th house squaring your Sun. To me, this suggests abuse in your childhood and perhaps this is your lesson in this life to rise above what you were born with. With Sun and Moon placed in the 12th you are also a very private person than an otherwise Gemini Sun/Moon/ASC would suggest. Also, since the 4th and 12th houses are involved, much of what happened in your childhood would be hidden and you would likely keep it so. Not vey many people really know you well. Does any of this resonate?
 

CactusLand

Well-known member
I’m going to assume that when you ask is there any message re having the two luminaries, specifically, in the 12th….you are referring to a spiritual perspective: as in, what this lifetime might be about. A good starting point is the nodal axis.
(According to Jodie Forrest), the South Node is intensely familiar territory. In Scorpio, it might suggest that you have incredible resilience to turbulence and even an attraction to situations that catalyse constant growth. The Taurus North node would suggest that it’s time to get you some peace, to resist the temptation to overly dramatise situations (which can obviously be exhausting).
Enter the Sun & Moon: powerful personal energies to help your Taurean North Node’s dharmic requirement…..to simplify.
They are in the 12th house, which is variously referred to as the place where we escape from reality & where we escape to reality. Your Sun & Moon placement there imply that your reality should include some time out, solitude. Gemini is endlessly curious, so for you this may involve being curious about what one does when one is by oneself, or even what one does when there is only one other; what happens to all the chatter; listen to the silence; tune into the unconscious. I think the 12th house sounds like the perfect place to recover from the amount of shock / growth implied by your South Node. It’s also a great place to get that writing done.
There is quite a bit more to your specific nodal story (squares to Venus/Jupiter from the nodes), but I really do think the message of the Sun/Moon combination in 12th IS a significant part of that story.


Hi Luna,

Thanks so much, I had no idea what the nodes where before your message, I love this site, I learn so much. What you said makes tremendous sense, I have lived and worked in many countries, had scores of jobs, homes, parnters, etc.. and the idea of finding some peace in Taurus sounds right.

Thanks again
 

CactusLand

Well-known member
HI Selfless,

I suppose that being born on a moonless night is not a good thing, darkness, no light to guide,, etc.. but would love your take on it.. Why is Jupiter so influential in my chart through 2015? Thanks
 

CactusLand

Well-known member
Hi Vista,

Thanks for the information. I did check my birth certificate, and I was actually born at 6.11AM. I would say that most of what you say resonates quite a bit. Not sure about abuse, but I have very poor familiar relationships and as you say, very very few people know me. I wonder if the 11 minutes makes much of a difference?

Thanks for your help
 
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