MissScorpio
Well-known member
I’m very interested to study the two charts
I am interested however to hear more thoughts on this
I am interested however to hear more thoughts on this
Last edited:
Studying the chart of a spiritual and sceptic
- Thread starter MissScorpio
- Start date
They are pretty interesting charts because they both show different ways that a person deals with thinking. Silversong in another thread asked me to delineate how I perceive thinking as defined by astrology(which I call the Zarathu-Huber-Wescott Analysis©), and if its alright with you I will try to look at both charts from that standpoint here and see if their differences in thinking process show up in the description of their way of dealing with spiritual matters.
Of course we know right away that we don't have an accurate birth time for the first lady since almost no one was born on the exact hour, but since we are not working on a chart for someone but to look at stuff about it, I owuldn't worry about this.
What do you think about at least my way of doing this?
Z
Of course we know right away that we don't have an accurate birth time for the first lady since almost no one was born on the exact hour, but since we are not working on a chart for someone but to look at stuff about it, I owuldn't worry about this.
What do you think about at least my way of doing this?
Z
Last edited:
MissScorpio
Well-known member
Hi Zarathu, yes that would be very interesting 
Hi MissScorpio, one of the most important planets in spirituality is the Moon, and in the first lady's chart it is in Gemini squaring Mercury the ruler of Gemini from Pisces, in its detriment and in the fall ( fifth House ) so that means there is something basically wrong with the way she understands things, plus we all know that Pisces is a dual sign with positive and negative, so in her way of translating belief, the positive side of Pisces, is that she cares about saving lives, ( Mercury sextiles Mars in Cap. and Venus in Taurus ) both earthy signs, she chose the negative side for the concept of belief, Saturn in Sag., and Mercury in 5th, one chooses what pleases him and serves his selfish purposes.
Miss Scorpio,
I wonder for the purpose of discussion, if you could share a little bit more about how these two people live their lives beyond what you've said. I though of specifying but perhaps, I will leave it up to you, just so that you could keep it connected to their perceptions on how they interact with their lives, perhaps in other areas too.
Z
I wonder for the purpose of discussion, if you could share a little bit more about how these two people live their lives beyond what you've said. I though of specifying but perhaps, I will leave it up to you, just so that you could keep it connected to their perceptions on how they interact with their lives, perhaps in other areas too.
Z
Miss Scorpio,
The kinds of things to start up, IMO, involved two things about their personalities:
1. How they tend to deal with change, and how change tends to happen to them.
2. How they initially deal with events as they happen.
We would need to followup with how they both look at the work: which means how their brain function deals first in deciding if its a fight of flight necessary response, and then how it impacts their security, and finally how they tend to think about circumstances after having dealt with fight/flight and security.
So lets look first at how change usually happens to them. Since the planet of everyday change is the Moon, the Moon is heavily configured in looking at change.
First we'll look at the cynical lady with the 3-18-56 birth date.
1. The house where the Moon is in is where she will have all her major changes take place. For her this is the 8th house. This is loss of stuff, monies, endings, injuries. So initially her expectation is that change involved these areas. She has learned to be careful because new information always entails some kind of loss. This lends to being skeptical.
2. The house where Cancer is in is the 9th. This is what tends to drive the native into making changes, which means that she wants to find out why things happen the way the do. And since science comes out of this house, and reductionist science at that, what drives her to deal with new things is a certain level of "prove it to me".
3. The planet that the Moon crossed over before birth was uranus:
For the native with a pre-birth pass-over of Uranus, changes come suddenly, and cause major disruption. They tend to be things of an unexpected way, and the native is usually forced into a major circumstance change. Many changes are brought about by the native’s innate fear of being restricted and not have freedom to act. The good thing here is that Uranus people are usually innovative in finding a best fitting for the new circumstances, so even though they can be their own worst enemy, they are often their own best friend at the same time.
Again you can see where her skeptical nature might come from.
4. Her Moon latitude is very low so that she has a wait and see type of personality. She doesn't make decisions about new things very quickly.
5. She has a crescent phase Moon which means that tends to look at values of the past and family before making change into the future. Can experience roadblocks to change if family values were too rigid. Dealing with changes always seems to have some kind of “what would my family think?” component.
All of this suggests what you have used to describe her: girl guide coach and rescues youngsters from dangerous religious cults. Intensely human interest type of person with strong , stable foundations , good home and children who are now older. Lady one is very skeptical about her spiritual beliefs. She had delved into all kinds of occult science and mystical magic , yet remains very cold and cynical about life after.
Now your second person's way of dealing with change and having had to deal with changes is much different:
She's the one with the 5-11-56 Birth day.
1. Her moon is in the 10th house. So her changes are likely to come through career and fame issues.
2. What drives her to make changes is 11th house issues: her friends, her ambitions, her hopes for the future.
You can see already from the first two that the second lady doesn't immediate think about how she might lose by change but how exciting it going to be in the future.
3. The planet the moon went over before birth for this woman is Mercury: There is so much mental agility here that the native becomes too much into having changes, even for fun. Thus, he gets too cocky about his ability to deal with them and makes leaping errors. But then, before the change itself, Mercury is checking everything out, writing and talking to everyone about it. Decisions are open to change and revision.
Certainly open to new things.
4. She also has a low latitude Moon and a wait and see attitude
5. But she has a New Moon phase: she deals with changes using risk, taking in ways that don’t pay
attention to the needs of others; tend to react by breaking
new ground, and overstepping existing boundaries, if self-esteem is high, eager to confront challenges: action, banter, fearless or foolhardy, growth, advancement, competition, often have to reinvent the wheel even though there are guides to change
You can see that just by looking at 5 basic characteristics of her Moon and change (and there are about 60 pages more of these measure in my book), how these two people can be so different and how its easy to see it in their charts.
Next: Why do they think in such a different way....
The kinds of things to start up, IMO, involved two things about their personalities:
1. How they tend to deal with change, and how change tends to happen to them.
2. How they initially deal with events as they happen.
We would need to followup with how they both look at the work: which means how their brain function deals first in deciding if its a fight of flight necessary response, and then how it impacts their security, and finally how they tend to think about circumstances after having dealt with fight/flight and security.
So lets look first at how change usually happens to them. Since the planet of everyday change is the Moon, the Moon is heavily configured in looking at change.
First we'll look at the cynical lady with the 3-18-56 birth date.
1. The house where the Moon is in is where she will have all her major changes take place. For her this is the 8th house. This is loss of stuff, monies, endings, injuries. So initially her expectation is that change involved these areas. She has learned to be careful because new information always entails some kind of loss. This lends to being skeptical.
2. The house where Cancer is in is the 9th. This is what tends to drive the native into making changes, which means that she wants to find out why things happen the way the do. And since science comes out of this house, and reductionist science at that, what drives her to deal with new things is a certain level of "prove it to me".
3. The planet that the Moon crossed over before birth was uranus:
For the native with a pre-birth pass-over of Uranus, changes come suddenly, and cause major disruption. They tend to be things of an unexpected way, and the native is usually forced into a major circumstance change. Many changes are brought about by the native’s innate fear of being restricted and not have freedom to act. The good thing here is that Uranus people are usually innovative in finding a best fitting for the new circumstances, so even though they can be their own worst enemy, they are often their own best friend at the same time.
Again you can see where her skeptical nature might come from.
4. Her Moon latitude is very low so that she has a wait and see type of personality. She doesn't make decisions about new things very quickly.
5. She has a crescent phase Moon which means that tends to look at values of the past and family before making change into the future. Can experience roadblocks to change if family values were too rigid. Dealing with changes always seems to have some kind of “what would my family think?” component.
All of this suggests what you have used to describe her: girl guide coach and rescues youngsters from dangerous religious cults. Intensely human interest type of person with strong , stable foundations , good home and children who are now older. Lady one is very skeptical about her spiritual beliefs. She had delved into all kinds of occult science and mystical magic , yet remains very cold and cynical about life after.
Now your second person's way of dealing with change and having had to deal with changes is much different:
She's the one with the 5-11-56 Birth day.
1. Her moon is in the 10th house. So her changes are likely to come through career and fame issues.
2. What drives her to make changes is 11th house issues: her friends, her ambitions, her hopes for the future.
You can see already from the first two that the second lady doesn't immediate think about how she might lose by change but how exciting it going to be in the future.
3. The planet the moon went over before birth for this woman is Mercury: There is so much mental agility here that the native becomes too much into having changes, even for fun. Thus, he gets too cocky about his ability to deal with them and makes leaping errors. But then, before the change itself, Mercury is checking everything out, writing and talking to everyone about it. Decisions are open to change and revision.
Certainly open to new things.
4. She also has a low latitude Moon and a wait and see attitude
5. But she has a New Moon phase: she deals with changes using risk, taking in ways that don’t pay
attention to the needs of others; tend to react by breaking
new ground, and overstepping existing boundaries, if self-esteem is high, eager to confront challenges: action, banter, fearless or foolhardy, growth, advancement, competition, often have to reinvent the wheel even though there are guides to change
You can see that just by looking at 5 basic characteristics of her Moon and change (and there are about 60 pages more of these measure in my book), how these two people can be so different and how its easy to see it in their charts.
Next: Why do they think in such a different way....
Neptune as you must surely know is the cosmic Moon, on a personal plane the Moon has the same influence ( Jupiter exalted in Cancer ), when we speak of spirituality, things go beyond tides and metric measures, as we consider the Sun as the spirit or the first tool of perception to humans, in the case of women, the Moon is their guiding planet, physically and psychologically, the Moon in spirituality is the filter that every perception passes through and transforms every piece of information to a spiritual feeling in some way or the other, the Moon is the transmitter of messages to the enlightened ones. A well aspected Moon in some way or the other is an indispensable asset to spiritual beings.
Hi MissScorpio, I do not question your spirituality nor can I judge your Moon without seeing your chart, I'll try another approach to clarify the spiritual influence of the Moon.
Mercury is the planet of logic and intelligence, while spirituality can be perceived and attained through a variety of influences.
But when it comes to the spiritual; feelings; water realm, the Moon is the leading planet.
Mercury is the planet of logic and intelligence, while spirituality can be perceived and attained through a variety of influences.
But when it comes to the spiritual; feelings; water realm, the Moon is the leading planet.
Maybe the difference lies into the qualities of aspects that prevail more, in each' chart and the content in the 12th.
L1 chart has not strong squares in it, but trines and sextiles prevail more.
L2 chart has more unflexible strings in it, concidering the squares.
L1s' 12th in Libra while L2s' in Leo.
Both pair of notes, might suggest the sceptic about Lady 1. Not believing in something doesn't always mean "resisting". It could imply a priority of being objective/balanced. Something Libra could emphasize on.
Tight "hard" aspects might suggest a need to actually believe in something, to be attached, to belong. A Leo 12th might add some "longing" spice in this..
Bottom line, believing in something doesn't necessarily make you "open" at it. It could imply the "need" to believe in it, regardless...
L,
my twos
I don't understand the question.
All the planets move clockwise around the chart as time moves forward. The Sun and Moon never retrograde. I suspect this isn't what you are talking about.
My software allows me to move the time forward and backward and watch the movement of the planets.
MissScorpio
Well-known member
Lena - yes I agree about tight , hard aspects, certainly give you a reason to belong to something, but more often than not I have heard people suggest that they have come closer to something spiritually after undergoing some form of adversity. So very interesting.
IleneK
Premium Member
Well, let's just simplify this and say that for each one degree the Sun moves, which is approximately what it moves in a day, then Moon moves about 12 degrees. And when the Sun moves about 2.5 degrees, then the Moon moves 30 degrees. And these are just approximate numbers.
I don't know if the following answers your question or not, but the diurnal motion of the planets, the movement they make during a day is clockwise. That is, all the planets, as well as the signs, rise in the 1st, over the Asc and on into the 12th, then on toward the midheaven and so on.
However, looking their seasonal motion, as reflected in the ephemeris, the planets all proceed through the signs. So then they are moving counterclockwise through the chart.
In your question about the Sun approaching the cusp of a house, it will always be moving counterclockwise in an orderly fashion through the signs.
MissScorpio
Well-known member
Thank you Ilene, this is such a great help and has clarified a lot.
Cheers
Cheers
MissScorpio
Well-known member
Yes Zar, she did, no worries, I didn't really phrase the question very well.
MissScorpio
Well-known member
Thanks, but actually I am still studying the notes from previous. I do have a question however, as I have never come across an analysis where you have studied the planet before..
EG -
3. The planet that the Moon crossed over before birth was uranus:
Would you mind expanding more on this? I would be interested to learn more about how you study astrology to work out such interesting observations.
EG -
3. The planet that the Moon crossed over before birth was uranus:
Would you mind expanding more on this? I would be interested to learn more about how you study astrology to work out such interesting observations.
Two words: Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson.
IVY in her 93 years of life, during which she was a full time astrologer from age 18 to 65, before she wrote any of the seven volumes of astrology.
Her vast experience. Not mine. I admit to putting much of this in a context that nobody else has thought of. Its her profound revelation. But you cannot ask her, or even any of her prime students about it since they have all died.
But I have yet to find in practice using her techniques now for more than 15 years, that any of it is not bang on every time.
In this case she believed that the Moon was fundamentally modified by the planet that She passed over(conjuncted) just before birth. Apparently the Moon picked up characteristics of it. And since there are three planets of change in the chart, this means that a person's response to everyday change would be modified in this way. Unusual change is measured by Uranus, and once or twice in a life time change is measured by Pluto.
I have all of Ivy's books. I am the only person on the planet who has a full index of all of them ---all 7000 lines of it. I tried to get it published, but Ivy's heirs would have none of it, and wanted 90% of any royalties I might make from it. But then whatever of them that are published now are all there will ever be, since they will also not allow them to be republished. If you study Ivy's books you will become a better astrologer, no question about it. She was simply phenomenal, and we will not see her like again.
She was originally Australian, and immigrated to the USA in the 1920's settling in California.
Z
IVY in her 93 years of life, during which she was a full time astrologer from age 18 to 65, before she wrote any of the seven volumes of astrology.
Her vast experience. Not mine. I admit to putting much of this in a context that nobody else has thought of. Its her profound revelation. But you cannot ask her, or even any of her prime students about it since they have all died.
But I have yet to find in practice using her techniques now for more than 15 years, that any of it is not bang on every time.
In this case she believed that the Moon was fundamentally modified by the planet that She passed over(conjuncted) just before birth. Apparently the Moon picked up characteristics of it. And since there are three planets of change in the chart, this means that a person's response to everyday change would be modified in this way. Unusual change is measured by Uranus, and once or twice in a life time change is measured by Pluto.
I have all of Ivy's books. I am the only person on the planet who has a full index of all of them ---all 7000 lines of it. I tried to get it published, but Ivy's heirs would have none of it, and wanted 90% of any royalties I might make from it. But then whatever of them that are published now are all there will ever be, since they will also not allow them to be republished. If you study Ivy's books you will become a better astrologer, no question about it. She was simply phenomenal, and we will not see her like again.
She was originally Australian, and immigrated to the USA in the 1920's settling in California.
Z
Last edited: