Stand up for yourself and manage anger

[Abby83]

I'm curious to see how other ppl stand up for themselves in various situations and how this affects your Mars, aspects, and anger management.

I have Mars in virgo which is a gentle sign but I have anger management issues when it comes to dealing with stupid immature behaviour from annoying selfish ppl obsessed with me. My sag maturity can't handle it. Like the last few weeks I've had this 60+ yr old woman in my Pilates class playing games and competing for a front row spot. She obsessed over me and prepares herself before I walk in. All prepared to take my spot. I just think she's an idiot. Then she tries to become popular in front of me looking at me to get more attention. Now my anger is not good. I don't abuse these ppl but internally my blood boils like a volcanic eruption. I cannot handle stupid immature ppl and I also cannot handle when they focus on me. I wish I had a super power to get them to look in another direction. So I just turn my back and ignore. But then I feel stupid cos I'm staring at a wall. Then she got her friend to tell me to move cos she wants my spot. I'm not a pushover so there I am festering. She keeps persisting and I'm thinking far out I just want to do a Pilates class without getting pushed around. I'm just not good with this stuff. My blood boils. I think it's my natal Mars square Uranus and moon in 1st house. However I don't really know how to stand up for myself without anger and frustration getting in the way. I'd prefer to be cheery but they see this as an invitation to continue but if I'm pissed off they're happy. My progressed Mars will soon be in libra...

So I'm curious to know how you guys stand up for yourselves and how you think Mars works for you in your chart. Please give me examples. Thanks.

 

[greybeard]

It is your ego that causes the trouble. We all have this problem.

You see, I (Capital I) am so important, central to the turning of the universe that...why it's unthinkable that that insignificant, immature pipsqueak...take MY spot...MY spot. Why she's lucky I (Capital I) deign to recognize her existence.

Mr Gandhi once said that no man can attain spiritual enlightenment who is not first more humble than the dust beneath his sandals.

I saw a movie about Merlin. He got into a sorcerer's duel with the Sorceress, far more powerful than he. He was taking a drubbing. And then he did a funny thing. He stopped fighting, then turned his back on her and walked away. By ignoring her, he stripped her of all power.

A soft approach. Impersonal, detached from any sense of "I am Somebody". Not responding, no need to defend the self.

Jesus said, "It is not I who do these works, but my father who doeth them through me." Keeping that in mind helps one keep self-importance in proper perspective.

 

[Sunny]

Dear Abby93,
You have Mars in Virgo .... that's the problem, I think. Sometimes Virgo can be obsessed by criticisme and even don't feel how she can hurt others by critical remarks. So, if you learn repeatingly how to change your sight in regarding others more with love and friendship instead of judging them, then your anger will certainly diminish. You'll need time for training, but it works.

How I am personnally dealing with my angers, that is firstly to have a look at my anger and not at the trigger. You must see your anger really and not judging about it - first to see only and then wait.

Dear Greybeard, you see I write also the Capital I, because I learned it at school. Is that wrong now? For me it"s just an habit in english language.

 

[Abby83]

It is your ego that causes the trouble. We all have this problem.

You see, I (Capital I) am so important, central to the turning of the universe that...why it's unthinkable that that insignificant, immature pipsqueak...take MY spot...MY spot. Why she's lucky I (Capital I) deign to recognize her existence.

Mr Gandhi once said that no man can attain spiritual enlightenment who is not first more humble than the dust beneath his sandals.

I saw a movie about Merlin. He got into a sorcerer's duel with the Sorceress, far more powerful than he. He was taking a drubbing. And then he did a funny thing. He stopped fighting, then turned his back on her and walked away. By ignoring her, he stripped her of all power.

A soft approach. Impersonal, detached from any sense of "I am Somebody". Not responding, no need to defend the self.

Jesus said, "It is not I who do these works, but my father who doeth them through me." Keeping that in mind helps one keep self-importance in proper perspective.

I dont agree with this. In the last few days ive come to realise that the anger comes mostly from a desire to change the person rather than accept them. If i just accept them as they are i find it easier to let go of the anger. it doesnt mean the other person is a good person or did the right thing. that person could be abusive and unfair as hell but as soon as i accept it, the anger disappears. i fully accept their faulty perception of me as well. putting ego aside, self worth is important.

 

[Abby83]

Dear Abby93,
You have Mars in Virgo .... that's the problem, I think. Sometimes Virgo can be obsessed by criticisme and even don't feel how she can hurt others by critical remarks. So, if you learn repeatingly how to change your sight in regarding others more with love and friendship instead of judging them, then your anger will certainly diminish. You'll need time for training, but it works.

How I am personnally dealing with my angers, that is firstly to have a look at my anger and not at the trigger. You must see your anger really and not judging about it - first to see only and then wait.

Dear Greybeard, you see I write also the Capital I, because I learned it at school. Is that wrong now? For me it"s just an habit in english language.

Interesting how u say mars in virgo is critical of others when im the one being criticised all the time. ive learned to just accept that some ppl are like that. i then remind myself of my own love for myself and my own values and i recover well. this is how im dealing with it the last week after being given a little advice - so for example, other ppl project their own sh*t onto me, it has nothing to do with me at all, so i remind myself who i am, where im at , what's good about me, what i love, that i am enough etc, and that i accept the other person's faulty behaviour.

 

[katydid]

With Mars progressing into Libra, maybe you can work on negotiating with people. Coming to agreements, like saying to the annoying older woman--let's take turns in this spot. I will be here this class, you can take it next class...or something like that?

I mention that because my friend had her Sun and Mercury progress into Libra, in her natal 7th, from Virgo. And her natal Mars is in Aries, so it was now a Sun/Mercury opposed Mars aspect.

Anyway, her theory was that she needed to learn to use Libra energy to the fullest extent, to try and 'progress' spiritually.

And so she worked hard on fixing her co-parenting issues with her ex. They were usually battling in court. She got sa mediator and they actually came to some agreements and things went much more smoothly after they BOTH agreed to make some concessions.

She stood up for herself, but also tried to be fair and just towards others, and made some concessions to make them happy as well.

 

[Abby83]

With Mars progressing into Libra, maybe you can work on negotiating with people. Coming to agreements, like saying to the annoying older woman--let's take turns in this spot. I will be here this class, you can take it next class...or something like that?

I mention that because my friend had her Sun and Mercury progress into Libra, in her natal 7th, from Virgo. And her natal Mars is in Aries, so it was now a Sun/Mercury opposed Mars aspect.

Anyway, her theory was that she needed to learn to use Libra energy to the fullest extent, to try and 'progress' spiritually.

And so she worked hard on fixing her co-parenting issues with her ex. They were usually battling in court. She got sa mediator and they actually came to some agreements and things went much more smoothly after they BOTH agreed to make some concessions.

She stood up for herself, but also tried to be fair and just towards others, and made some concessions to make them happy as well.

Well interestingly, transit mars in libra has always been the worst place for me. I feel weakest with mars there. And it's when im weak I get bullied. I've found using the point that harmonises, such as Sagittarius, to be a way to deal with it.

 

[greybeard]

Funny how the 12th house/sign has so much to say about "dissolution of the ego", and is often said to represent the last and highest stage of our evolution.

And who is it saying "their perception of me is faulty"...Is it? Who makes that call?

It is very easy to see the flaws in others, almost impossible in ourselves.

You don't have to put aside self-worth in order to put aside ego.

You are looking in all the wrong places, my friend.

You say "immature, stupid people" infuriate you, and call yourself "a mature sag", yet your responses to these people are quite immature [because they won't act the way you want them to, you throw a tantrum].

Look inside.

 

[Osamenor]

I dont agree with this. In the last few days ive come to realise that the anger comes mostly from a desire to change the person rather than accept them. If i just accept them as they are i find it easier to let go of the anger. it doesnt mean the other person is a good person or did the right thing. that person could be abusive and unfair as hell but as soon as i accept it, the anger disappears. i fully accept their faulty perception of me as well. putting ego aside, self worth is important.

What does "accept them" mean to you?

All too often, "accept" gets confused with "put up with." You can't change another person, but that doesn't mean you have to put up with their behavior. As a parent, if one of your kids is misbehaving, do you correct them? Or do you just let it go, and let the misbehavior continue, in the name of acceptance?

Should be the same thing, more or less, if an adult is doing something to you. While you don't have the authority over them that you have over your kids, you do have the right, and the duty, to say, this is unacceptable, I won't let you do it to me.

I would say Virgo and Libra both have a discernment message that can be used well for standing up for yourself. Virgo can get bogged down in the details (that seething "It's so unfair, how can she do that, she must be jealous of me, etc."), but a well used Virgo Mars recognizes her duty to herself, to not let others walk all over her. Libra layered on top of that adds a sense of justice. Not self sacrifice, not letting people get away with what they do, which is a Libra pitfall. Well used Libra means you can accept the person who's behaving unacceptably but still not let them get away with their unacceptable behavior.

 

[Abby83]

Funny how the 12th house/sign has so much to say about "dissolution of the ego", and is often said to represent the last and highest stage of our evolution.

And who is it saying "their perception of me is faulty"...Is it? Who makes that call?

It is very easy to see the flaws in others, almost impossible in ourselves.

You don't have to put aside self-worth in order to put aside ego.

You are looking in all the wrong places, my friend.

You say "immature, stupid people" infuriate you, and call yourself "a mature sag", yet your responses to these people are quite immature [because they won't act the way you want them to, you throw a tantrum].

Look inside.

You're missing my point entirely. Mars (and this thread) is about anger. Sun is about ego. To be honest, im too nice to ppl, that's why these egotistical, immature ppl come into my life to teach me to have a little more pride and a better developed ego rather than to cave in cos i cant deal with conflict. after all my north node does trine the sun. so im far from having a big ego. wuite the other way around. my ego was never fully developed. but now with progressed sun crossing over the ascendant, i am getting there. but this thread is about anger. i dont feel ego is related to this. im purely talking about how ppl deal with their anger. like i said, my husband deals with it well. he just accepts ppl and moves on and im now doing the same and it feels much better.

PS, I dont throw a tantrum, but i do get highly irritated. That's a control thing, not an ego thing. control is the issue here.

 

[Abby83]

What does "accept them" mean to you?

All too often, "accept" gets confused with "put up with." You can't change another person, but that doesn't mean you have to put up with their behavior. As a parent, if one of your kids is misbehaving, do you correct them? Or do you just let it go, and let the misbehavior continue, in the name of acceptance?

Should be the same thing, more or less, if an adult is doing something to you. While you don't have the authority over them that you have over your kids, you do have the right, and the duty, to say, this is unacceptable, I won't let you do it to me.

I would say Virgo and Libra both have a discernment message that can be used well for standing up for yourself. Virgo can get bogged down in the details (that seething "It's so unfair, how can she do that, she must be jealous of me, etc."), but a well used Virgo Mars recognizes her duty to herself, to not let others walk all over her. Libra layered on top of that adds a sense of justice. Not self sacrifice, not letting people get away with what they do, which is a Libra pitfall. Well used Libra means you can accept the person who's behaving unacceptably but still not let them get away with their unacceptable behavior.

Everything you say is true. Yes, virgo gets bogged down with the details. sometimes i find that being a little deluded with others (pisces energy, the opposite sign) can be a good way to throw them off, and to also steer clear from letting my mind gret carried away. pisces also wants u to let go.

You cant always not let ppl get away with their behaviour. You cant keep putting boundaries in place with ppl who look for boundaries they can cross. And boundaries can be crossed. you cant always control that, as ive learnt. so i let go of trying to control their opinion and behaviour towards me. i do a few things. when the abuser chases me to abuse me - 1. if i cant stay away from them and im at a location they are at as well, i go along with the act to throw the abuser off. eg; my mil keeps coming up to me and feeling me up at parties to freak me out. if i tell her that's inappropriate and im going to leave, she giggles and continues to do it more often. so instead, i tell her how much i enjoy it and then i start telling her where i want the strokes and how i want it done. im playing the game of power. she doesnt like me being in control and happy, so she stops and walks away. her goal is to get a reaction, but she cant so she looks for other things. 2. I leave or stay away, which isnt always an option. 3. I talk rubbish so she never knows information she can use to abuse me. So these are examples. No, i cant control her behaviour, but i can control how i react. I know my power is my happiness, so i keep that going as much as possible. This in no way is immature. It's simply a way of surviving and protecting oneself from abusers.

PS i appreciate your consideration. You've raised a good point and i hope i explained it well to you. Boundaries dont work all the time. especially if other ppl allow others to cross them.
Also, the downfall of libra is they get defensive when they're accused. This in itself can continue the conflict. That's why i find a positive or humorous approach to work quite well.

As for the pilates woman - I was so put off by her annoying immature behaviour that i stopped going. I was going there to relax and focus on breathing and health and centering myself away from the world, like meditation. she was blocking that so i just found it healthier to stop going.

 

[Osamenor]

As for the pilates woman - I was so put off by her annoying immature behaviour that i stopped going. I was going there to relax and focus on breathing and health and centering myself away from the world, like meditation. she was blocking that so i just found it healthier to stop going.

But you didn't consider telling her off directly, or telling the instructor you had a problem with her?

That's what I would do in a situation like that. Maybe stopping going would be the next step, if I told the instructor and they didn't take it seriously and/or the violator just blew off my telling off.

I've had to tell people in my tai chi classes, on occasion, that the fragrance they were wearing made me unable to be there. I'm allergic to fragrances, and if someone near me is wearing a strong enough one that I can smell it without being close enough to hug them, I get a reaction. But, the instructors always backed me up on that, because the organization actually has a no fragrance policy for that reason. (The spaces we use don't always, but we are supposed to be as accessible as possible for people with allergies and physical disabilities.) If they hadn't backed me up, I would've had to stop coming.

Your pilates class ought to have a policy against harassing other students. Which this woman is clearly violating.

Your mother-in-law might be a different kind of case, but for the most part, boundary violators need to be told directly to stop, and told even more directly if they persist. Not telling people directly isn't a Virgo Mars thing, because Virgo in and of itself doesn't have any problem with speaking up, but the combination of Virgo getting bogged down in the details and Libra being reluctant to rock the boat could lead to that situation.

You cant always not let ppl get away with their behaviour. You cant keep putting boundaries in place with ppl who look for boundaries they can cross.

Oh, yes, you can.

What you're saying is the equivalent of having a "no trespassing" sign on your property, but no fencing of any kind... and always taking the no trespassing sign down when a trespasser comes along, because you figure there's no way to stop them.

The real way to stop a boundary violator is to get more firm each time. If they won't respect a sign, build a fence. If they knock the fence down, add barbed wire. If they cut the barbed wire, rebuild it as an electrified fence.

Maybe passive resistance works with your mother-in-law, but that might be her version of the electrified fence. For most people, more direct you get, the faster they back down. This is especially true of strangers and casual acquaintances, because they're not in your life to the degree that they could repeatedly violate your boundaries. The woman in your pilates class is just a casual acquaintance. Setting boundaries with her, and people at the same level of acquaintance as her, could be a good place to start, because there's less boat to rock, which makes it less of a risk to the Libra in you.

One big challenge for many people with strong Libra is learning how and when to rock the boat. That might be what progressed Mars moving into Libra is highlighting for you.

 

[Abby83]

But you didn't consider telling her off directly, or telling the instructor you had a problem with her?

That's what I would do in a situation like that. Maybe stopping going would be the next step, if I told the instructor and they didn't take it seriously and/or the violator just blew off my telling off.

I've had to tell people in my tai chi classes, on occasion, that the fragrance they were wearing made me unable to be there. I'm allergic to fragrances, and if someone near me is wearing a strong enough one that I can smell it without being close enough to hug them, I get a reaction. But, the instructors always backed me up on that, because the organization actually has a no fragrance policy for that reason. (The spaces we use don't always, but we are supposed to be as accessible as possible for people with allergies and physical disabilities.) If they hadn't backed me up, I would've had to stop coming.

Your pilates class ought to have a policy against harassing other students. Which this woman is clearly violating.

Your mother-in-law might be a different kind of case, but for the most part, boundary violators need to be told directly to stop, and told even more directly if they persist. Not telling people directly isn't a Virgo Mars thing, because Virgo in and of itself doesn't have any problem with speaking up, but the combination of Virgo getting bogged down in the details and Libra being reluctant to rock the boat could lead to that situation.

Oh, yes, you can.

What you're saying is the equivalent of having a "no trespassing" sign on your property, but no fencing of any kind... and always taking the no trespassing sign down when a trespasser comes along, because you figure there's no way to stop them.

The real way to stop a boundary violator is to get more firm each time. If they won't respect a sign, build a fence. If they knock the fence down, add barbed wire. If they cut the barbed wire, rebuild it as an electrified fence.

Maybe passive resistance works with your mother-in-law, but that might be her version of the electrified fence. For most people, more direct you get, the faster they back down. This is especially true of strangers and casual acquaintances, because they're not in your life to the degree that they could repeatedly violate your boundaries. The woman in your pilates class is just a casual acquaintance. Setting boundaries with her, and people at the same level of acquaintance as her, could be a good place to start, because there's less boat to rock, which makes it less of a risk to the Libra in you.

One big challenge for many people with strong Libra is learning how and when to rock the boat. That might be what progressed Mars moving into Libra is highlighting for you.

I totally get the fragrance thing. That's like an allergy so that is a must. But when someone is immature brat in class in my life ive always found that if i tell the teacher the teacher does nothing about it and this gives the other woman more drive to continue being a bully. her behaviour escalates. this same scenario has happened when i studied massage, with my husband and mother in law, and when i was in year 8 - the person of authority didnt want any drama so they just let it continue. so im guessing my ldsson here is to stand up for myself. i dont have the energy to deal with these ppl and i find that accepting them as they are followed by moving on from them is the best thing to do, as well as those other strategies i mentioned before. my goal is to keep things fun and happy.

I do take on your advice about being firmer with boundaries. But in my life ive found that the firmer i get, the more the other person digs their heels in the little game they like to play. they keep going, especially when those authorities cave in to whoever is more threatening or manipulative. like in the massage class in 2011, the bully was crying she was a victim and the director believed her, so i changed classes. This is confirmed with my natal chart - authorities (10th ruler is sun in libra 12th house) are weak but are also in love with my hidden and open enemies (7th and 12th rulers venus). Im much stronger on my own, however if i do need help my children are the strongest in my chart and they have definitely helped me and im grateful for that. 3rd ruler is saturn in scorpio. so ppl online are very much supportive of me and give me great advice on how i can manage it better. and also ive used the internet as a way of effectively communicating my dissatisfaction. eg: i wrote a review for everyone on google to see once when an authority was refusing to communicate with me directly. and since the sun (authority) is in exaltation of saturn when in libra, i believe my communication through the internet is effective. but as for anger, yes i find that accepting them as they are helps me to calm down.