Sign Vs House

[Shining Ray]

I read this by Charles Carter and I tend to agree as I have three planets in the 7th house and face most Librian dilemmas.

I shall deal chiefly with Leo rising and Sun in Leo, but I
mention that some of the most Leo people I know have heavy
stresses on the 5th house and next to nothing in the sign.
It used to be said that sign was character and the house the
field in which it is expressed, but frankly this is wrong.
It is, in my view, a major mistake. ​

I share a busy 7th house with Obama, Hitler, I did a search for other 7th house people and found a french astrologer, singer and dancer Gloria Dehaven, she has mostly Leo planets in 7th with Mercury, Venus, Mars and Neptune with Moon in Virgo in 7th too. She was married four times! She does have alot of 7th house activity, however, Sun in Leo is at 0 degrees, and the old astrological marriage technique using the appropriate luminary works here for marriage prediction, 4 aspects made before the Sun leaves Leo, but often Mercury is not included, but she did marry the same man twice. It doesn't always work this system 100% but it has so far been pretty true in my family.

A school of arts student has 5 planets in 7th 4 of them in Libra. She trained as a ballerina, but was more into acting. She has a Peace tattoo on her ankle, out of all the 7th house people she most epitomizes the Libra/7th house archetype. However, she did refuse to raise money for aids because she believes Aids is a state of mind, and not a disease. Maybe reflecting her heavy Librian Air view.

I always liked the Dobyns system of Numbers and found it useful, but there has been many objections to simplifying astrology this way. However, Charles Carter "more or less" expresses the same view, and I have read the same view expressed by many other astrological authors, but I am easily swayed Mercury in Pisces 7th lol.

What do people think? Do lots of planets in 1st = Aries 2nd = Taurus = 3rd = Gemini etc? I am not saying take it literally, but it does seem relevant.


[Mod edit - thread moved here, as it mainly revolves around house placements of planets.]

 

[astrologer50]

Again, I think it depends on the house system you use, cos I have 3planets in taurus in 4th house and am very cancerian, family orientated, but practical. I display both sets of traits of both signs. Also I have to heavyweight planets in 7th, ie: pluto and uranus and house cusp ruled by Leo, so after 4th house matters, 7th house cos of Leo influence is next house.

If I was to use Placidus instead of Equal house my Moon, sun, venus & mercury would be in second house, which I don't identify with. But I do strongly identify with cancerian traits and have spent the majority of my life in home roots, full time mother, wife, working from home etc

So, yes I think house cusp rulers and natural house cusp rulers have to be synthesised with the planets and aspects being the 'actors on stage' the background, settings, music ambience being house cusp ruler and natural ruler.

 

[Shining Ray]

Hi Astro50,

I use Placidus, but I just switched to equal house on my kepler software and nothing really changes, apart from Chiron moving from 9th house in Placidus to 8th house in Equal. However, rulerships change as there are no interceptions in equal.

Most of my life is centred around my partner (Sun in Pisces 7th with Moon and Mercury) and I am a homebody, and full time mother (Pisces dispositor in 4th). My only outlet for my own individuality comes from mental pursuits. I agree that sign and house planets flavour the chart, I tend to have Piscean qualities with Librian undertones (7th).

Hi Joseph,

Traditional rulers and modern rulers are different. I use modern astrology the "popularised" version, simply because this is where my astrological studies began. I first started to use equal house when hand drawing charts, as they are simpler, but I prefer Placidus. I tried Koch for a while until I looked at Richard Branson's chart and the Placidus chart seemed to work better, and this happened in other cases. I respect what astrological systems people use, I guess it comes to individual choice what tools and systems we can work with.

Thank you both for your input .

 

[poshslob]

There is something Scorpionic about me yet I don't have any planets in Scorpio.

I think its because I have Sun, Mercury, and Venus in the 8th. (this is using Placidus)

 

[dreamtimez]

There is something Scorpionic about me yet I don't have any planets in Scorpio.

I think its because I have Sun, Mercury, and Venus in the 8th. (this is using Placidus)

Look at the Pluto placement in your chart. I feel the same way and there are no planets in Scorpio. Then I found out that it was my Pluto that made me Scorpionic

 

[EJ53]

Do lots of planets in 1st = Aries 2nd = Taurus = 3rd = Gemini etc? I am not saying take it literally, but it does seem relevant.

Not sure about this one, Shiny.

I favour the system planet = what, sign = how, house = where............So, my view is that lots of planets in (say) 1st house make us appear like Aries because we are focused upon activities to do with self...........but, our nature/character is still determined by the sign.

For example, I have Mercury in Scorpio/2nd and I think like a scorpio, but primarily about second house matters...........And it's the house focus which others will judge me by, because that's what they see.

EJ

 

[Shining Ray]

Most people do favor the what/how/where method, however, you can't always escape the similarities, as Aries concerns are not that far removed from 1st house activity. Lawyers are often found in Libra maps or 7th house natal charts, or in politics etc.

I had a browse for 1st house examples, and Robert Rimmer had 4 planets in Pisces in the 1st house, he did not believe in monogamy, and he wanted an open relationship. Sun is conjunct Mars, I not saying his values are attributed to a first house stellium because he also has Moon in Scorpio (intimate and sexual relationships) in the 9th house (philosophy on life) square Uranus ( I need to be free!). Natally Aries planets can express an impulsive, impatient nature, which may not be seen in a stellium in first. Often first house planets and Aries planets have their own "identity" and "assertion" ssues, depending on the planets involved.

I have an American footballer here (Jim Pyne) with 5 planets in Sagittarius in the 1st house - Sun is square Mars, and this adds a further competitive nature, but I have found planets in the 1st house act as competitively as planets in Aries, along with attention to the physical body and appearance.

Pyne attended Virginia Tech and was selected as a unanimous All-American becoming Virginia Tech's first player ever to do so and was also awarded the Dudley Award, which is given to the Commonwealth of Virginia's Outstanding Player of the Year. He was a finalist for both the Lombardi Trophy and the Outland Trophy. Virginia Tech retired his number (#73); it is one of only four football numbers retired by the school in over 100 years of football. He was named to the Big East Conferences All-time team at the turn of the century. The offensive line meeting room at Virginia Tech has been named in his honor. He has been inducted to Virginia Tech's hall of fame.

Another football player Jerry Jones (wealthy Business man) owner of Dallas Cowboys, has a 1st house stellium, planets in Libra, he is is described as decisive helped by Mercury/Mars in the 1st house, however, he has been called an ego maniac. He was named least favourite sportsman, he has had plenty of conflict.

American T.V personality, Dick Clark has a stellium in the 1st house, with planets shared between Scorpio and Sagittarius, the involvement in media I imagine must be from the Sagittarius/Gemini opposition (Sun-Mercury opposed Jupiter in Gemini 8th). He had more "personality". Aries imposes itself upon the environment, and planets in 1st can also have this affect.

An interesting chart to use for death of sibling: Which was the subject of another thread. Link here..

Along with discovering his niche, Clark's teenage years held family tragedy. His brother Brad, five years his senior, joined the Army Air Corps after graduating high school and became a fighter pilot. "He flew a P-47 mission one day during the Battle of the Bulge and ...he crashed. He didn't reach his 21st birthday. I miss him to this day. Even now I fantasize that they made a mistake and my brother will come walking through that door. My mother did that till the day she died."

I thought it interesting to explore more charts, there are some similarities and perhaps what you expect anyway from 1st house planets. As I said I don't take it literally, and there is a difference in temperament through sign, but planets in the 1st house need to express their identity and it's often the "first" thing people notice about us.

 

[Niplan]

there are alot more techniques in traditional astrology, that can easly justify why certin things are even if no planets are there, for example antiscia, as well as heavy use of the lots.


I am an avid fan of the whole sign system first i learned, i tried to understand the other house systems, and they don't even make sense. Why would you add so much extra work into astrology, when the very people who were divinley inspired to create such a beautiful working hermetic system of mystysm and give us all mirrors to our selves.

for some reason it just seems like someone said "I don't like how these planets make me appear, I don't think im like that, Lets make a new house system to make me look better"

i started playing with the lots today in charts, and they show alot, if you let your imagination go with them. but they work best when you do them last, so you know what boundries you have to work within of the temperment, and aspects and dignities.

 

[EJ53]

...you can't always escape the similarities....

True Shiny.......made even harder now by the fact that so many astrology cookbooks list interpretations as "Planet in Aries or Ist house"; "Planet in Taurus or 2nd house" and so on........Simplifies things for the masses and new astrology students, but less helpful to intermediate and advanced students than "Planet in Aries/1st house"; "Planet in Taurus/1st house"; etc.

....1st house examples....Robert Rimmer,

Jim Pyne, Jerry Jones, Dick Clark.....

All valid examples supporting the contention that the objectives of 1st house planets will be as transparent/unadulterated/clear as a planet in Aries.....but perhaps not of them displaying the Arian nature.

Rimmer's Piscean "urge to merge" with more than one other; Pyne's Sagittarian enthusiasm/unlimited energy; Jones's Libran manipulativeness and Clark's Sagittarian outgoingness might actually be responsible for their apparent Aries traits.......with the first house location simply making them more obvious/transparent to others.

....I thought it interesting to explore more charts, there are some similarities and perhaps what you expect anyway from 1st house planets. As I said I don't take it literally, and there is a difference in temperament through sign, but planets in the 1st house need to express their identity and it's often the "first" thing people notice about us.

Yes.......but maybe that (sign) difference in temperament makes us "who we are", whilst the (house) is more about "what we do".........So, my moon in 10th may have got me recognised in my career (Capricorn) - but it's location in Cancer ensured that my job satisfaction came from "nurturing others".

EJ

 

[EJ53]

....I'm pretty much the ultimate Leo.....

The ultimate Leo, JJ.......(having a strong urge to be creative),

or the ultimate "5th houser" ........(having a strong interest in creative activities).


EJ

 

[Shining Ray]

I think this is 100% true. I have nothing in Leo unless you count Chiron. However i do have a fifth house stellium. I'm pretty much the ultimate Leo with Aquarian quirks who sometimes overshadow it all.

I think the house is something to follow as much as the signs if you got the birth time right.
/JJ

Hi Jenna,

It's hard to think that a lot of planets in one astrological house will not have an overall affect on your character, I have known people born the same day as me, but have been completely different, and the difference can't be just through a different rising sign. I think planets in houses colour the individual and not just through house concerns, i.e he is involved in shared investments or has an interest in research or the occult (8th) or career is a priority in life or achieving status (10th). I think it says something about the individual. My concern for 7th house concerns will alter my character, as I will be concerned with relationship. I have had my psychological report done and it describes the dilemma of the seventh house, which isn't too far removed from the Libra dilemma, but of course I am modified by Pisces on 7th: However, Harmony, and other people's viewpoints, all form part of my view on life. If my planets were all the 8th house or 9th house I would have a very different emphasis on life, and my focus and whole personality would be altered.

Perhaps you sometimes place too much emphasis on human relationship, fearing to be alone and separate, when in reality you are a complicated mixture of qualities and need at times to be able to withdraw and find your meaning and sustenance within. You tend to allow yourself to become too dependent upon a partner or friend or teacher to provide the direction and structure in your life, while at the same time stifling your own need to pursue interests which do not concern your loved ones. You are sometimes afraid of being seen as selfish, yet your definition of this word is suspect, stemming perhaps from attitudes prevalent in the family during your childhood where "selfish" meant not doing what someone else thought you should do. You need to develop more confidence in your right to your own opinions and viewpoints, trusting more in the relationships to which you have given so much love and time and care; for if you ignore your own requirements for space, freedom and honesty of expression then you will not be able to avoid resenting and envying others when they ask for such freedom themselves. Because you love harmony, you may forget that you too sometimes need conflict and distance in order to grow.

The ideas and opinions of others matter a good deal to you. Faced with a difficult decision, you are not likely to withdraw into solitude to consult the voice of your own soul; but rather, you will be found discussing the problem with at least three friends, gradually collecting a cross-section of ideas, viewpoints and perspectives. You have the humility to know that you might be wrong, and that others might see something you have missed; and this natural humility is devoid of pretense or theatrical self-effacement, but validates the importance of others to help you reach the clearest, most balanced viewpoint. Thus you usually never act on frantic impulse or in an excessive fashion, but tend to live your life with a temperate, harmonious outlook which is culled from the distilled wisdom of your many friends and colleagues. Faced with having to make an important choice that must spring solely from your own heart, and without this support from the collective, you are inclined to dither, procrastinate and wait until the problem goes away or solves itself (or the other person solves it for you).


You hate to be seen as aggressive, rude, selfish or destructive. You are extremely sensitive to the rights and needs of others, and are generally considerate, courteous, kind and willing to reason conflicts out quietly. But you have great difficulty in feeling real confidence in your own inner voice and vision, for your dependence on the good will of those around you makes you undervalue yourself. This is a pity, since your own intuitions and hunches are usually very insightful.

It's hard to accept that house focus doesn't have some psychological influence over the individual. A full 12th house may involve solitude, isolation, and collective causes, but how much of this is just "house focus"and how much is character. If you have a need to express yourself in a particular area you are influenced highly by your decisions, motivations, goals. I think it can determine character as much a sign focus alters temperament.​

 

[Shining Ray]

True Shiny.......made even harder now by the fact that so many astrology cookbooks list interpretations as "Planet in Aries or Ist house"; "Planet in Taurus or 2nd house" and so on........Simplifies things for the masses and new astrology students, but less helpful to intermediate and advanced students than "Planet in Aries/1st house"; "Planet in Taurus/1st house"; etc.

However, even the high esteemed astrologers do it. In Liz Greene's Saturn book, she lists Saturn in Pisces or in the 12th house, but in the introduction of the book she feels the house placement is stronger than sign. When I have read astrology books it often says if you have planets in Libra or the 7th you will be blah, blah, blah, but in "general" it is true. I wouldn't rule out that advanced students like Liz Greene lol don't do it now and again. She obviously thinks it has a similar tone, or it would be separately categorized, into sign placement and house placement. One astrologer who is deeply opposed is Kevin Burke, he hates this type of astrology. However, I still like his website and astrology books even if I am not radically opposed to the "Dobyns" system.

All valid examples supporting the contention that the objectives of 1st house planets will be as transparent/unadulterated/clear as a planet in Aries.....but perhaps not of them displaying the Arian nature.

Rimmer's Piscean "urge to merge" with more than one other; Pyne's Sagittarian enthusiasm/unlimited energy; Jones's Libran manipulativeness and Clark's Sagittarian outgoingness might actually be responsible for their apparent Aries traits.......with the first house location simply making them more obvious/transparent to others.

The Piscean urge to merge is difficult in the 1st house, as his own identity is concerned, his self assertion, but he isn't tying himself too tightly to one relationship (7th), there is a merging with others but not one particular person, but who is not to say that a person with 7th house planets doesn't need more than one relationship lol.

Yes.......but maybe that (sign) difference in temperament makes us "who we are", whilst the (house) is more about "what we do".........So, my moon in 10th may have got me recognised in my career (Capricorn) - but it's location in Cancer ensured that my job satisfaction came from "nurturing others".

EJ

I don't know "what we do" tends to have a high affect on character, a 12th house stellium in worse case scenario may escape using drugs, or be sent to prison and spend time in isolation locked away, but what does this say about his own temperament or character. He needs to escape and find solitude, and he is sensitive to a much larger collective than your average 1st, 2nd, 3rd house individuals. The self-undoing aspect of his personality needs to be looked at. The same way we would look at hard aspects to Neptune, or in Pisces planets.

 

[Shining Ray]

I just lost my other reply, I will shall and create it again [it's turned out differently].

I was talking about Liz Greene in her other works describing Planets as the actors and signs as the clothes the actor wears, and houses symbolizing the arena where all the action takes place.

Often authors conflict on views if you read through all of their work. Often ideas at later dates are different than earlier views expressed. It seems on some level she relates signs to houses in regards to her book Saturn a New Look at an Old Devil, where Saturn signs and houses are grouped the same. The struggle, pain, and limitation (Saturn) are basically the same for Saturn in Leo as it is for Saturn in 5th. However, it changes if Saturn in Leo is in the 11th house, and two different kinds of limitation, frustration, and consciousness will need to be synthesized together to form the whole meaning of the individual placement of Saturn. I fully understand this, but I do notice how house placement does seem to change character an awful lot.

However in the normal view of astrology, I have Moon (emotional needs and nurturing response) in Pisces (sacrificing, suffering, and sensitive one) in the 7th house of relationships, and square Neptune to boot. Do I look like this in relationships (Martyr) lol . I won't go through the rest of my sign placements, although it would be fun to do .



There are so many conflicting views in astrology it makes my head spin, you have great astrologers like Charles Carter expressing one view and other experts in the same filed like Liz Greene, or Tracey Marks, Kevin Burke, Howard Sasportas expressing a completely different view. We all want to do astrology that works, and that reflects character but how do we know what is right or wrong. I mostly play around with ideas, but I am still questioning how much house placements change character.

I do like this astrology below (pasted further down after my rant), it is sound in reasoning. You have your actors, set design, costumes, studio and lights, camera... and then action. I must have quite a few movie reels of my life by now, with memorable moments, and times I wish I could forget. I must have to change costumes pretty quickly from Pisces in 7th, over to Saturn rising in Virgo, Mars in Aquarius 6th, Jupiter in Leo 11th, it's amazing we all don't suffer from multiple personality disorders, but it is more of a psychological dress change most of the time. However, I do believe this is where most of our personal frustration lies, so many roles to play and live out, but not enough time to fulfill them all.

I am just contemplating other factors in the horoscope as well...I need an aspirin for my headache now lol. There is nothing wrong in questioning I suppose, or seeing what other views are on this subject. It's how we learn best in life.

Link to Site for information below:

The Astrological Alphabet

SIGNS - The Twelve Human Archetypes or Universal Qualities ~

The Script

ARIES - The Initiator, Pioneer, Warrior
TAURUS - The Earth Spirit, Manifester, Builder
GEMINI - The Communicator, Networker, Student
CANCER - The Nurturer, Mother, Water Child
LEO - The Leader, Golden Child, Performer
VIRGO - The Server, Healer, Worker, Humble One
LIBRA - The Harmoniser, Diplomat, Relater
SCORPIO - The Transformer, Seeker, Psychologist
SAGITTARIUS - The Philosopher, Explorer, Wise Teacher
CAPRICORN - The Purposeful One, Father, Time Lord
AQUARIUS - The Humanitarian, Reformer, Global One
PISCES - The Compassionate One, Mystic, Dreamer

PLANETS - Psychological Urges & Needs or Aspects of the Personality ~

The Actors

THE SUN - Creative potential, Personal Identity - the urge to create and to be
THE MOON - The Past, Nurturing, Receptivity - the urge to nurture, respond and feel
MERCURY - Thinking, Analysing, Networking - the urge to know, to think and to communicate
VENUS - Relating, Love and Beauty, Sense of Values - the urge to love, appreciate and relate
MARS - Energy, Aspiration, Motivation, Sexuality - the urge to act and motivate
JUPITER - Expanding, Philosophising, Searching for Meaning - the urge for growth and meaning
SATURN - Boundaries, Limitations, Concretisation - the urge to build structure and stability
CHIRON - Healing, Integrating, Wholemaking, Teaching, Mentoring - the urge to be healed, to heal, teach and mentor others
URANUS - Collective Mind, Illumination, Awakening - the humanitarian urge
NEPTUNE - Collective Feeling, Universal Love, Imagining - the spiritual urge and the need for unity
PLUTO - Transformation, Purpose, Regeneration - the urge for evolutionary growth
NORTH NODE - The Path of Future Growth
SOUTH NODE - The Past, Karma, Inherited Potential

HOUSES - The 12 Universal Departments of Life or Fields of Experience ~

The Stage


1st - Self Awareness, Self Discovery, Persona
2nd - Personal Resources, Values, Skills
3rd - Communication, Mental Activity, Learning
4th - The Hearth, Feeling at home, Inner Security
5th - Creative Extensions of the Self, Children
6th - Self Improvement, Daily Life, Work, Health
7th - Awareness of Others, Relationships
8th - Depth Interactions, Sharing, Letting Go
9th - Awareness of the Cosmos, Religion, Travel
10th - Vocational Purpose, Taking Power, Career
11th - Group Contribution, Collectives, Friends
12th - Transcendence, Spiritual Path, Solitude


HOUSE POLARITIES

1st - Awareness of Self; 7th - Awareness of Others
2nd - Personal Resources; 8th - Shared Resources
3rd - Immediate Environment; 9th - Expanded Horizons
4th - Inner World (Home); 10th - Outer World (Vocation)
5th - Personal Creativity; 11th - Group Creativity or Contribution
6th - Daily Life; 12th - Spiritual Life

THE FOUR ANGLES OF THE CROSS OF MATTER

ASCENDANT - ASC - cusp (beginning) of 1st house - The degree of the zodiac rising on the Eastern horizon at the moment of our birth. The point of Self Awareness. "I am".

THE NADIR - IC - cusp of 4th house - The degree of the zodiac directly below us at the moment of birth. The most private and deepest parts of ourselves. The Inner Self. "My Roots".

THE DESCENDANT - DESC - cusp of the 7th house - The degree of the zodiac rising on the western horizon at the moment of birth. The point of Awareness of Others. "I Relate to An Other".

THE MIDHEAVEN - MC - The cusp of the 10th house - The degree of the zodiac directly above us at the moment of birth. The most public and outer part of ourselves. "I Function in the World".

ELEMENTS - Patterns of Energy - The Four Temperaments

Fire - The path to LOVE (Focussed on Identity) - Choleric
Earth - The path to SERVICE (Focussed on Materiality) - Melancholic
Air - The path to BROTHERHOOD (Focussed on Mental and Social Interactions) - Sanguine
Water - The path to PEACE (Focussed on Emotional & Feeling Realm) - Phlegmatic

SIGN AND ELEMENTAL POLARITIES

Yang - outgoing, active, freedom oriented - Fire and Air signs
Yin - ingoing, reflective, security oriented - Earth and Water Signs

MODALITIES - Energy Movement

Cardinal - Initiating Action
Fixed - Manifestation of Purpose
Mutable - Adapting to Change

THE Sun-Moon-Ascendant TRIAD

THE SUN -Depicting the Yearly cycle of the seasons - our essence, core self, conscious purpose and sense of identity, creative potential. The Integrated Personality. The Present.

THE MOON - Depicting the Monthly cycle of the Moon's Phases - the innermost core of our being, private feelings, subconscious habits. Karma. The Past.

THE ASCENDANT - Depicting the Daily cycle of the Earth's rotation on its axis - our outer self, how others see us, our persona, the filter through which all the planets are expressed. The Soul's Purpose. The Future.

 

[EJ53]

....even the high esteemed astrologers do it....

Yes, but perhaps to sell books to a wider audience than to further the practice of astrology..........It's like hearing a fan in the Kop at Anfield singing "You'll Never Walk Again"........Or a UK MP claiming expenses he/she hasn't incurred......These things do happen, but it doesn't make them right.

..One astrologer who is deeply opposed is Kevin Burke, he hates this type of astrology.

My first astrology book was the 1974 edition of "The Horoscope, The Road and It's Travellers" by Alan Oken.......in which he holds the view that "planets in signs" are very different from "planets in houses".

..."what we do" tends to have a high affect on character...

No.......it affects the way others believe our character to be.

.....I fully understand this (requirement to synthesise sign/house meanings), but I do notice how house placement does seem to change character an awful lot.

Maybe it's semantics, but house placements focus us upon activities....then others assume those interests reflect our character.......usually according to some kind of sterotype..........For example, as an accountant, I lost count of the number of people who saw me as a different character whenever I confessed to being a fan of The Stones, Queen, Meatloaf and Leeds United....(most didn't even realise that Billy Bremner fronted the latter group).

We all want to do astrology that works, and that reflects character but how do we know what is right or wrong.

I actually favour the "one size fits all" approach as a means of getting the masses interested in astrology that goes beyond sun signs......Provided there is a clear warning on the tin that "there is much more to astrology, for those with the interest/tenacity to study it in depth".

[However, in that respect, I think the astrological community would create more interest by relacing "sun-sign astrology" with "chiron-sign astrology" rather than by merging the meanings of houses and signs.]

...There is nothing wrong in questioning I suppose, or seeing what other views are on this subject. It's how we learn best in life.

Amen to that, Shiny!

EJ

 

[Shining Ray]

Yes, but perhaps to sell books to a wider audience than to further the practice of astrology..........It's like hearing a fan in the Kop at Anfield singing "You'll Never Walk Again"........Or a UK MP claiming expenses he/she hasn't incurred......These things do happen, but it doesn't make them right.

I don't think it necessarily does sell books to a wider audience, and I don't believe it is as damaging to astrology as some practitioners of this art want us to believe. I was reading Liz Greene's/Howard Sasportas book on the Inner planets today, and on page 220 it says:

Sun-Mars, Sun in Aries, Mars in Leo, Sun in 1st are all expressions of a solar and martian energy.

Now this is suggesting the 1st house has a martian energy. There are many techniques, house systems, interpretation methods that can be disputed in astrology. What is right or wrong? All you can do is use what you find useful and what gives valid results. Who is to say one method is completely wrong.

My first astrology book was the 1974 edition of "The Horoscope, The Road and It's Travellers" by Alan Oken.......in which he holds the view that "planets in signs" are very different from "planets in houses".

I have read some of Alan Oken's work, the Complete Astrologer and Rulers of houses, I like his astrological interpretations, and he has a deep and thorough understanding of astrology.

No.......it affects the way others believe our character to be.

I think we own more of our house activities as an extension of "ourselves" than others may want to believe.

Maybe it's semantics, but house placements focus us upon activities....then others assume those interests reflect our character.......usually according to some kind of stereotype..........For example, as an accountant, I lost count of the number of people who saw me as a different character whenever I confessed to being a fan of The Stones, Queen, Meatloaf and Leeds United....(most didn't even realise that Billy Bremner fronted the latter group).

I think we detach if we think of houses as just activities we do, the house loses a psychological meaning by stripping it down to mundane meanings. The 2nd house relates to money and possessions etc. The 2nd house is a reflection of self-worth, and this reflects in the personality. I don't think a person who is obsessed with money because of Pluto in 2nd for example (not always the case) doesn't have these security needs rooted deeper in the personality.The houses don't have to just mean objects, people, physical appearance, hobbies, is it not our interaction with these things that form who we are as individuals.

I actually favour the "one size fits all" approach as a means of getting the masses interested in astrology that goes beyond sun signs......Provided there is a clear warning on the tin that "there is much more to astrology, for those with the interest/tenacity to study it in depth".

Sun signs are a doorway in, but when you enter into "real astrology" you see just how far the rabbit hole goes. The scientists want to remain in the "rational" world, and are afraid to look too deeply at astrology just in case there is any truth to it. The general public has increased their interest, but now and again Scientists and Astronomers try and make the general public feel stupid for believing in a symbolic system that doesn't have a concrete explanation to why it works. I don't know why it works, but I have found out it does through long hours of study.

 

[reallypisces]

I can actually agree. I have only 1 planet in fire sign - Moon in Leo in 00 degrees which could as well be Cancer in 29 degrees. I've read that a person who lacks fire signs usually lacks enthusiasm about anything, is very calm and even apathetic. Although it is true that I'm quite introverted (lots of water in my chart) I consider myself rather too enthusiastic and too much a subject of sudden passions accompanied by bursts of enormous energy when I have an idea that I want to fulfil. I guess it could be because I've got 5 planets in fire houses, Mars and Jupiter among them.

 

[Shining Ray]

There does seem to be something in it, and like Charm was saying, whether you create your surroundings, or it's your physical environment affecting you can get the same result whether through house or sign. According to Liz Green Saturn in a fire house can have "spiritual constipation" lol (I have Saturn in 1st) and this placement can be observed as lack of spontaneity and self-expression what the fire signs usually have in abundance.

 

[astrologer50]

Definately, planets in houses, more than 2say are very much influenced and coloured by the natural house ruler. Another very basic idea to me anyway, is that a sun sign conj saturn through pluto will automatically become and honorary saturnian---- plutonian.

I have a similar thread going on regarding planets in 2nd and 4th houses, cos I have 3 taurean planets in 4th house and am very cancerian in traits, but practical at same time. I'm always in the house working from home and caring for family.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=146047#post146047

In placidus house system all my planets move from 4th to 2nd house for which I simply cannot identify with, obviously the taurean thing, yep but earn your own money, values etc...... no way. Jupiter in 8th seems quite lucky insomuch that when I really need money, other people/universe give it to me..

 

[Shining Ray]

Hi astrologer50,

The Cancerian is very much like the individual who has a lot of fourth house planets, the past, home, family, and I agree the sign colors it, you are practical when it comes to family. Pisces colours all my interactions with other people, but other astrological influences affect how I deal with others/Libra house. Apparently I can deal with the public better from a distance, which is very true, I read this in Saturn a New Look an Old Devil. "Saturn in first is intensely self-conscious in a personal situation yet can deal well enough with a distant public."

 

[iwonder]

No, I don't agree that sign=house. I am with EJ on this.

House is where planet finds its expression.

In Placidus, I have 4 planets (Sun/Mars/Pluto and Venus) in the 8th house. Does it make me a Scorpio? No. I am a Virgo. But I am attracted to or find myself drawn into 8th house matters: joint finances, people's minds, research, control, the unknown. This is where I shine, and of course I try to find best ways to express my creative self.

My husband is Scorpio rising, three planets in the 1st including Sun/Mars conjunction. He is not an Aries, but one aggressive Scorpio (another attraction of my 8th house Sun). He remains a Scorpio, but his Scorpio traits are best expressed in a way that leaves no doubt of who he is.