Re: keep it nice, to all
Astrology doesnt say anything. Different astrologer from different backrounds say things. If you dont agree with that then explain what they're argument for that is and present it. And enough with this is what they say for 3,000 years nonsense.
I've been arguing astrological philosophy since my first post, you on the other hand have been arguing psychology. I'm relating to you what astrology dictates, you're relating to me what psychology dictates. Since this is a discussion about astrology...hm...
Answer to #1. Life begins at conceptions. That is called pro-creation and it happens when people have sex. The man ejaculate and the sperm meets the egg. END OF STORY.
Well, then you get into a moral debate. Whether life begins at conception or not is not the point, the point is fetus which eventually grows into a child is formed. Conception is a Fifth house act, and you stated this yourself.
Yes, children can be created in the 5th house
My child is held entirely in my Fifth house. From the moment s/he is conceived, throughout its mother's pregnancy, to the time of its birth, throughout its childhood, and into adolecense into adulthood. The only time my child will move from my Fifth house is if we ever enter somekind of father daughter/son business agreement, then they will be my Seventh house as my business partner, but even then they will only be shown as this in charts that apply to the business.
Answer to #2. I've been arguing that conception is in the 8th house if you re-read my posts. Thanks
Ah, but see I've gotten you in a contradiction here. I have you quoted above as saying the Fifth house is where babies come from. Not only has modern astrology attempted to take sex away from love, but it's also decided to take away the act of creating from the creation. Paintings, dances, musical compositions, all of these things are the Fifth house. So to is the act of painting, the act of dancing, and the act of making music. Childern are the Fifth house, and so too is the sexual act which creates children.
You my friend seem to be confusing conception with BIRTH. Conception is when the sperm meets the egg after sex, and then 9months later we have BIRTH. And birth takes place in the first house. Birth, btw, is when the baby, that has been alive in the mother for the last 9months since the parents had sex and it was created(life) comes out of the mothers womb.
Here we have the idea of modern morals. You're telling me that the emergence into the world that birth brings us is in no way connected to life?
That is ridiculous. The sun is born on the Ascendant, and so too are we, that is when our astrological life begins. Sol signifies our vital life forces, the very thing that keeps us ticking, that is why the First house is the house of life. That's why nativities are set for birth, not conception.
Also, I'd like to take a step back and think about what you said about Magi astrology and its apparent useage of wholistic thinking as opposed to dualism. This is also philosophically unfounded as much of astrology is divided into dualisms. You have the basic Benefics (Venus, Jupiter) vs. Malefics (Mars, Saturn), Incarceration (Twelfth) vs. Freedom (Eleventh), Friends (Eleventh) vs. Enemies (Seventh), Material (Second) vs. Spiritual (Ninth), Local (Third) vs. Foreign (Ninth). Astrology is filled with it!! To dismiss dualism is to dismiss another foundational basis of astrology. I'm glad you feel like your branch of astrology has the know-how and right to.
So what your sayign is, if we dont accept every word of what they are saying we cant accept any of the information?
Yes, if we assume that the traditional authors were wrong about the Eighth house, then they can be wrong about everything, which makes astrology useless. You're only accepting traditional statements that happen to coinside with the obvious ignorance of magi astrology, why can't magi astrology be infalliable? Oh, that's right, because it's
your astrology.
Nice try. If you had actually bothered to follow the link you would have seen that the site has two sections that are dedicated to each of the topics. They are not mixed. I placed a number of links to suport my claim, including bob marks who is well respected around these boards. Why dont you try taking a look at the sites.
Oh, I'm sorry, I don't want to.
Personal policy.
No one is trying to re-invent the wheel here, we are trying to make a better one.
I believe that's called re-inventing. "We don't want to change it, we just want to change it!!"
And yeah no one is saying unaspected outer planets affect a persons psychology. But I'd like you to find me even one example of any living human being that does not have neptune, pluto, uranus aspecting atleast one of their personal planets.
The very fact that you chose to exclude the Outers from the label 'personal' totally just proved my point.
Thanks for that!
Electional astrology has nothing to do with sexuality dude, thats why it doesnt even belong in this discussion. No one is even talking about it
I was speaking of it in relation to houses and the hierarchy of power and how it works to shape astrological philosophy. So yes, it was relevant, thanks.
coffee said:
Faced with the discovery of Pluto, Uranus, Saturn etc Im sure Lilly and all the other great astrologers of thier time would use them planets.
What would it take for you lot to agree? Would Lilly and the rest need to rise from the dead and say it is so? Would you be convinced at that point?
Yes, I'm sure they would have too. I have no qualms about seeking to discover the meanings of the Outers, I even have personal projects of my own in seeking the meanings of the Quartet! Initiating new planets and discovering what they mean is not something I'm against, what I'm against is wittingly throwing out thousands of years of tradition because someone is good at creating cleverly contrived phrases, using puns, and psuedo-psychological examinations. This is most often found in discussions like these, concerning houses.
Why?
Because no one seems to know WHY the houses mean what they mean! So, that's why I've taken the time to write the article that Lilly has posted a link to in the post preceding this one. Not done yet, gotta do the Third and Second house. Only two left! :O
Moulin said:
Numerology has nothing to do with astrology?
Really?
Yes, really.
Ok now i'm laughing my head off because the SEX of a BABY is DETERMINED BY THE CHROMOSONE OF THE MALE AT CONCEPTION. If an XX sperm reaches the EGG first, it is a BOY. If a XY sperm reaches the EGG first, it is a GIRL.
basic biology here lol
...
May l say that Magi astrology actually makes a lot more sense than traditional astrology ever did
Please girl, XX is the female chromosome gender and XY is the male...
Sitting With Saturn said:
I seriously think that traditional astrology will be a tale in another 3,000 years if this keeps going on the way its going. A tragedy. Nothing like wiping out the information that got us to where we are.
I know, right? It makes me sad. Thanks for the assistance.
Also, Gaer already mathematically and scientifically cleared up the ambiguity concerning the period of human gestation, so arguing it any further is just silly. Thanks for putting in the effort to calculate that for us, Gaer.
Draco, thanks, love you too!
Nice to hear from you again.
This is my 600th post!! *confetti falls from the sky*
