Self destructive people

[Niplan]

I used to partake in self destructive tendencies, mainly those involving razor blades, no true attempts at suicide just thoughts.

Now this was a long time ago, but at times I still feel these feelings to do it,
What in a chart could demonstrate that urge for self destruction.

In my chart i think its due to the grand trine between Chirion saturn mars and mercury. And saturn jupiter square to venus as well and square to chrion two grand trines ontop of one another.

the thinking of wounds, traped by the control of actions and movement, displaced onto venus in the house of relationships and marraige

All of the relationships may be colored by the wounds of thought, the native may also experiance that the control of the wounds Causing dreams to be easly crushed, and taken away by saturn.

the native may feel that the lack of energy or caring may be the cause, the inability to move and express ones self, but the trine would suggest a moreso on the fact of chrion who is the epicenter of the tug of war.

Does anyone else have any kind of experiance with charts of people who do these things who can add more information?

 

[Niplan]

''my big friend niplan'' ???

what, im confused...

 

[katydid]

I used to partake in self destructive tendencies, mainly those involving razor blades, no true attempts at suicide just thoughts.

Now this was a long time ago, but at times I still feel these feelings to do it,
What in a chart could demonstrate that urge for self destruction.

In my chart i think its due to the grand trine between Chirion saturn mars and mercury. And saturn jupiter square to venus as well and square to chrion two grand trines ontop of one another.

the thinking of wounds, traped by the control of actions and movement, displaced onto venus in the house of relationships and marraige

All of the relationships may be colored by the wounds of thought, the native may also experiance that the control of the wounds Causing dreams to be easly crushed, and taken away by saturn.

the native may feel that the lack of energy or caring may be the cause, the inability to move and express ones self, but the trine would suggest a moreso on the fact of chrion who is the epicenter of the tug of war.

Does anyone else have any kind of experiance with charts of people who do these things who can add more information?

I would say it is likely Mars/Saturn in affliction with Mercury. I did a few charts of teen girls who were cutting themselves for sport, and they had Mars/Saturn conjunctions and or squares, and often in aspect to Moon or Mercury.

Mars being blades and cutting, Saturn being the Skin, Moon being the source of emotional purging, or Mercury, the source of the idea.

One girl whose chart I saw, had Mars in Taurus, square Saturn in Aquarius, and opposing Pluto/Asc in Scorpio. She was very compulsive and was not only cutting her arms, but she also pulled out her hair compulsively. And she
was very highly intelligent, but very depressed.

 

[Niplan]

so since the moon isn't involved at all, Would venus be the spot of purging?

Where did you find that saturn is skin? Or is that metaphorically speaking.

I believe mine was more out of anxiety.

Or is there no purging point since its a trine?

 

[katydid]

so since the moon isn't involved at all, Would venus be the spot of purging?

Where did you find that saturn is skin? Or is that metaphorically speaking.

I believe mine was more out of anxiety.

Saturn rules the skin. Skin, teeth and bones.

Yes, anxiety, as seen by the square from mercury. Mercury squaring mars/saturn is often seen as anxiety because of inner anger towards Dad, or whomever Saturn represents.

Yours has Chiron there, so relationship challenges, and childhood fears and bad memories abound.

 

[Niplan]

Yup Drunkies fault.
But whatever I try to get over it, Hes a moron, im not, i forgive him for being stupid.

Inner anger due to a resentment to ideals and dreams that i thought of, or lack of support for the natives creative ideas (merc in picese)

but now im just seeing it from chirons point of view, and thats the point of the opposition, Can't solve it just have to work around it right.

So Because saturn rules Aquarius, and aquarius is skin teeth and bones, then Saturn = skin teeth and bones right.

 

[Niplan]

i also have Mars/Saturn conjuction in the first house in Virgo

I think the final part of the puzzle though is the pull and strain between another planet.

 

[Niplan]

i have 3 giant gashes from an xacto knife blade on my forearm, on the top. I tell people I got into a fight with a dragon. No one seems to understand its a metaphor.

But ironicly enough, Mars = fire, malice destruction, A fire breathing dragon.. Given a body to manifest *saturn*

Mercury's dreams and ideas fighting against the dragon pulling to be free of its torture and glare. mercury in picese being a dreamer and a thinker, too unaware in its dreamings to move in time taking a gash from the claws of mars.
Forever leaving scars on the dreamer to remember the things that men can do.

 

[Arian Maverick]

I would say it is likely Mars/Saturn in affliction with Mercury. I did a few charts of teen girls who were cutting themselves for sport, and they had Mars/Saturn conjunctions and or squares, and often in aspect to Moon or Mercury.

Mars being blades and cutting, Saturn being the Skin, Moon being the source of emotional purging, or Mercury, the source of the idea.

One girl whose chart I saw, had Mars in Taurus, square Saturn in Aquarius, and opposing Pluto/Asc in Scorpio. She was very compulsive and was not only cutting her arms, but she also pulled out her hair compulsively. And she was very highly intelligent, but very depressed.

I too am inclined towards self-destructive behavior--although, thank goodness, I have never used razor blades for self-mutilation. I believe I have worked through most of the negative thoughts and feelings that spurred such behavior, yet I still experience moderate symptoms of trichotillomania, the hair-pulling compulsion katydid briefly described.

I personally attribute this compulsive behavior to my two natal yods--1) tenth house Saturn/Neptune conjunction in Capricorn sextile house eighth Pluto in Scorpio, both quincunx chart ruler Mars in Gemini and 2) first house Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction in Aries sextile chart ruler Mars in Gemini, both quincunx eighth house Pluto in Scorpio. Pluto is often associated with compulsive behavior, and I've surmised that the mutual reception between Mercury (thought) and Mars (action) both quincunx Pluto (compulsion) inclines obsessive thoughts (Mercury/Pluto) to translate as compulsive action (Mars/Pluto).

What is the condition of the planets within your first house and your first house ruler? This theory may not be applicable, yet it would make sense if self-destructive tendencies were partially indicated by an afflicted first house. I believe my compulsions began as a method to appease feelings of personal inadequacy and self-disgust. Unfortunately, I've continued some of the less-destructive ones out of habit.

Arian Maverick

 

[mr.hyde]

But ironicly enough, Mars = fire, malice destruction, A fire breathing dragon.. Given a body to manifest *saturn*

Mercury's dreams and ideas fighting against the dragon pulling to be free of its torture and glare. mercury in picese being a dreamer and a thinker, too unaware in its dreamings to move in time taking a gash from the claws of mars.
Forever leaving scars on the dreamer to remember the things that men can do.

I love your metaphors Niplan , explain me a litlle better what you mean by it ??? ....if you can

 

[Arian Maverick]

I forgot to add the astrological basis for my cutting. Probably a tight Sun/Moon/Chiron conjunction in the second house of self-worth. My mars is well aspected though, the origin for this type of behavior would have originated elsewhere in my chart.

Wow, that's some intense conjunction!

Exalted Mars in Capricorn is the most elevated planet in your natal chart, although this does not indicate how this powerful Mars will express itself.

Have you investigated your natal parans? My natal Mars is in paran with Algol, as is Pluto, and it is the only fixed star with which these planets are connected in my natal chart. Perhaps your natal Mars is in paran to this or another negative/violent fixed star...

You can request a free one-page paran report at Bernadette Brady's Starlight Software website: Your Stars... Free Natal Parans. It doesn't provide much in the way of interpretation--it only gives one descriptive sentence for each paran--but at least it does the calculations for you. There are other websites you can browse to learn more about the nature of a specific fixed star in your report.

I feel obligated to make one more contribution to this thread, something I've learned through personal experience. I used to spend a lot of time searching for astrological indicators for various abilities and tendencies I possessed, seeking explanations for why I am the way I am. I believe the ultimate purpose of all of this research and discussion is to lead us to a state of unconditional self-acceptance. We may reach this state through various means, learning valuable lessons along the way--yet we must not lose site of the destination. I suppose I'm simply trying to remind us all--myself included--that the goal of this exploration and discussion should be to lead us away from such tendencies, not to provide us with excuses to indulge them further. Of course, we are each free to chose that path, but that path is not inevitable. Discussing astrological indications for certain tendencies can often make it appear such, which is way I wanted to include a reminder here for anyone who may wish to heed it. That is all; I'll step down from my soapbox.

Arian Maverick

 

[katydid]

so since the moon isn't involved at all, Would venus be the spot of purging?

Where did you find that saturn is skin? Or is that metaphorically speaking.

I believe mine was more out of anxiety.

Or is there no purging point since its a trine?

From Encyclopedia of Medical Astrology, by Cornell;

"The SKIN is under the external rulership of the Capricorn sign, and also ruled by Saturn. The skin is also largely influenced by the Libra sign, the exalted sign of Saturn."

I would think that the Venus trine was the support you needed to quit doing the malefic behavior.

 

[katydid]

I too am inclined towards self-destructive behavior--although, thank goodness, I have never used razor blades for self-mutilation. I believe I have worked through most of the negative thoughts and feelings that spurred such behavior, yet I still experience moderate symptoms of trichotillomania, the hair-pulling compulsion katydid briefly described.

I personally attribute this compulsive behavior to my two natal yods--1) tenth house Saturn/Neptune conjunction in Capricorn sextile house eighth Pluto in Scorpio, both quincunx chart ruler Mars in Gemini and 2) first house Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction in Aries sextile chart ruler Mars in Gemini, both quincunx eighth house Pluto in Scorpio. Pluto is often associated with compulsive behavior, and I've surmised that the mutual reception between Mercury (thought) and Mars (action) both quincunx Pluto (compulsion) inclines obsessive thoughts (Mercury/Pluto) to translate as compulsive action (Mars/Pluto).
Arian Maverick

Quincunxes are SO powerful imo. And I consider them major aspects. If you look at the circle, 150 fits right in with the 30 degree segments. I really do not understand how it ever got demoted or ignored. Except of course that it is the nature of the beast to be demoted and ignored, in spite of being relevant and next in line.
I think that the Pluto in Scorpio generation does have a lot of compulsive behavior issues, but they are perhaps the symptoms of the Pluto in Leo/Virgo generation which messed up their parenting skills so ineptly at times.

 

[Niplan]

From Encyclopedia of Medical Astrology, by Cornell;

"The SKIN is under the external rulership of the Capricorn sign, and also ruled by Saturn. The skin is also largely influenced by the Libra sign, the exalted sign of Saturn."

I would think that the Venus trine was the support you needed to quit doing the malefic behavior.

I messed up, its not trine, its square.

 

[katydid]

I messed up, its not trine, its square.

Okay, so maybe the Venus square means you were anxious about relationships
and felt the need to vent.

 

[wilsontc]

transit, to templeton

templeton,

You said:

this side of my past to people. It was never a serious problem for me, but more like a teenage phase...I did slice some nice chunks out of my arms and burned myself with cigarettes in moments of extreme emotional turmoil...something that happened a long time ago

Since this happened in the "past" this sounds like a transit (moving planets in the sky). Perhaps a transit created a challenging , , , combination. Once the challenging transit was over, the urge to cut was also over.

Transiting,

Tim

 

[natasa812]

I believe the ultimate purpose of all of this research and discussion is to lead us to a state of unconditional self-acceptance.

...that the goal of this exploration and discussion should be to lead us away from such tendencies, not to provide us with excuses to indulge them further.

Arian Maverick

This is very true and I could not agree more on this.
Sometimes, this Forum works like a mirror for me. I see how bluntly honest I am, over optimistic all the time, I also talk too much (write), (who knows what else) I know (more or less) the aspects ``responsible`` for this and I am trying to correct my behaviour and become a better person...

Such a useful forum indeed...

ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT: RECOGNITION IS THE FIRST STEP. ONCE YOU SEE THE ``ASPECT`` OR THE ``TENDENCY`` IN YOUR CHART (MEANING IN YOU), IT IS EASIEST TO CHANGE IT.

Best r

 

[silentwarrior]

A lot of people have children they should not have. The children born of these unions do indeed have their work cut out for them. Wanting to hurt one's self is an act of crying out for help.At time of crises you simply do not know how to handle the situation. Yes it could be your chiron oppose saturn,mars,square venus,mercury.It could be your moon-uranus inconjunct.I do not think the orb is to far. I have two inconjuncts in my chart.But you and other people who seriously hurt themselves must accept the circumstances of your existence! That can be done when you love yourself,respect yourself,and realize that no other person on this earth has the right to treat any diffrent,and if they do get them out of your life!! You are a child of the creataor of this universe. I never see anyone get an award for taking someone's abuse. I does not matter where you came from, it matters where you are going. Time to break the cycle. love and light to you.