Saturn-Venus Aspect and the lesson I learned

midnight sun

Well-known member
I have Saturn opposition Venus in my birth chart and I am analyzing it since I start to learn astrology a little bit. Astrology helped me to understand my repeating patterns and the deep wounds lying under them. I always opened threads with depressed feelings but now I would like to tell the progress I have done.

But it is not easy and it is a journey I understood. I mean no miracle happens suddenly and your whole love life and relationships change…I hardly accept this reality, the reality that I have to grow myself in time with hard work.

A brief history of my problem; I have friendship problems whole my life. I always look for a group to be a part of but always feel rejected, unloved and out of it. After a time I find myself in a conflict between being myself and saying the truth and following the group. And I always look for a friend to be close to like a sister or brother. But I couldn't find one. People change in my life constantly, I have not much old friends in my life. I just have two love affairs in 2006 and 2007. But both of them finished with disappointment. My pattern is about rejection. It triggers when I fall in love with a man unavailable, cold or loves someone else. I was suicidal for a long time and the diagnosis was atypical depression which means being too sensitive to rejection and abandoment. When I believed I will never be loved and be alone whole my life, I usually decided to kill myself(in the past), and have two attempts unsuccesful when I couldn’t handle with the pain I felt.( guess Saturn-Jupiter square is related to this all-or-nothing thinking)

I am 32 years old now and I am actively working on this since 2008. Sometimes I shut myself without hope, sometimes I get hopeful and work on it more. It is just too painful to live the same pattern but I am a real survivor.

I learned that these patterns are coming from my childhood. And while I was mostly blaming my father(he is emotionally unavailable) for feeling so needy, I find out with EMDR work that I have very deep and intense mother problems, especially about being neglected. I hardly realized this because I have a very caring, loving and also possesive mother. It seems to be a taboo for me to judge her and I feel guilt when I accept this reality. But I start to see our pattern. For the first time a therapist told me that I have an attachment disorder and unconsciously I don’t want to break my bond with my mother so she told me that I always choose unavailable men and live a crisis of abandoning the mother.

It really makes sense to me, the problem of attachment disorder really fits Venus-Saturn hard aspects. And I am writing this here because I recommend people with hard Venus-Saturn aspects to learn about attachment problems(I went to lots of therapists but none of them told me it this clear). We started an EMDR work to understand why I am having a very painful crisis just because the man I like don’t show an affection to me. Under this pattern, a huge rage to my mother about being neglected came to surface and I cried “how can you do this, how can you?”. I don’t remember anything but the therapist told me that I talk with metaphors a lot, so it can go back to my very early childhood like 2 or 3 years old. So now we’ll go on working on it. The first pain I felt is gone now, I am comfortable with the man if he is not interested much in me. I only feel a disappointment not an existantial crisis which is normal.

I understand that I have to reborn and grow myself again. I hardly work on these issues because I have a very stubborn side which tends to isolate and shut myself, like being offended in a childish manner, waiting for someone(mother, father, doctor or God) to help and save me. And this is a kind of punishment to myself for not solving the problem easily and quickly. I am aware of Neptune issues now. I stopped being the therapist of other people(with Virgo Moon I tend to fix everyone also) but I find it hard to go outside of the victim psychology even if I am aware of it.

What helped me? I believe there are helpful aspects and positions in my chart as well as negative ones. And the kind of work helps a person changes I think. For me, knowing and understanding myself psychologically and also learning the nature of human psychology, the dynamics of emotions, the dynamics of trauma have always been the most helpful things. But that can be because of my Virgo Moon and the positive aspects of Pluto in 1st house and also good aspected Mercury. Since the most thing I fear is uncertainity, I tend to learn and rationalize everything and it makes me very comfortable to know the reasons why I am behaving or feeling in that way. So yes, Virgo Moon helps me a lot to make my inner dynamics clear to me and my Mercury helps me to express it verbally. These positions help me very much because I have hard aspects of Neptune. I am also a very curious person, I have an impulse to learn deeper realities which I think is connected to my 9th house Sun-Mars position, and again powerful scorpio energy surrounding my ascendant.

Thanks to Libra asc, and my powerful Mercury, I am social, I like to know new people, I easily connect with people, make them feel comfortable around me and have fun a lot together. With this motivation I overcome my social anxiety which was phobia in my childhood and adolescent years. Now I have confidence in making friends but still have problems with more intense and close relationships(8th house Venus). I learned to put borders around me, learned the tricks of daily relationships and I am good at. People mostly find me very sempathic and smiling. I just still have problems with more close relationships. if you look at my chart you'll see there is a positive triangle with Mercury in the MC in the other side of my Venus-Saturn-Jupiter triangle. My academic career healed me so much. I feel very secure and comfortable with the people here. Seeing the same people every day (a stabil enviroment) and creating strong connections with them helped me so much and I also feel accepted because we are usually similar to each other mentally.

It is very important for the Venus-Saturn people to learn the projection and transmission terms in psychology. I learned that I constantly try to create an old scene(life is a theater yes) in my current relationships and wait a different outcome. Again I am transmitting mother or father image to the man I like or a close friend and desperately wait for the attention I need so much. This causes to choose wrong people for close relationships because you can’t see the real person near you, you just see the projection and it is not healty, it is just a repetation of past. Also the other person cannot understand why you are so sensitive to his/her behaviours or words. It is necessary to first realize these projections and transmission and face with the real pain of absent attention and love in our childhood.

I also have nodes with Venus-Saturn opposition which shows me that these patterns are coming from my family roots(I am also working o family karma and healing). My mother has Saturn in her 4th house for example…My mother side aunts never married, uncles divorced. My father also has strong Saturn aspects(to his Sun and Mercury) and there are generational patterns of being fatherless in his family. So this is a generational problem.

I am still working on it…my journey goes on. I can recommend some books about this problem: David Richo’s “When the past is present”, Shapiro’s EMDR books, any article on attachment and abondonment wounds and about healing the inner child.
 

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katydid

Well-known member
What a great journey you have been on.

And that was a well thought out, revealing description that you posted. Thank You.

It warms my heart to see that people are doing the work when they start studying their charts. You have worked so hard and are making such great progress,:sideways:
 

UraSatVen1029

Well-known member
I have Saturn opposition Venus in my birth chart and I am analyzing it since I start to learn astrology a little bit. Astrology helped me to understand my repeating patterns and the deep wounds lying under them. I always opened threads with depressed feelings but now I would like to tell the progress I have done.

But it is not easy and it is a journey I understood. I mean no miracle happens suddenly and your whole love life and relationships change…I hardly accept this reality, the reality that I have to grow myself in time with hard work.

A brief history of my problem; I have friendship problems whole my life. I always look for a group to be a part of but always feel rejected, unloved and out of it. After a time I find myself in a conflict between being myself and saying the truth and following the group. And I always look for a friend to be close to like a sister or brother. But I couldn't find one. People change in my life constantly, I have not much old friends in my life. I just have two love affairs in 2006 and 2007. But both of them finished with disappointment. My pattern is about rejection. It triggers when I fall in love with a man unavailable, cold or loves someone else. I was suicidal for a long time and the diagnosis was atypical depression which means being too sensitive to rejection and abandoment. When I believed I will never be loved and be alone whole my life, I usually decided to kill myself(in the past), and have two attempts unsuccesful when I couldn’t handle with the pain I felt.( guess Saturn-Jupiter square is related to this all-or-nothing thinking)

I am 32 years old now and I am actively working on this since 2008. Sometimes I shut myself without hope, sometimes I get hopeful and work on it more. It is just too painful to live the same pattern but I am a real survivor.

I learned that these patterns are coming from my childhood. And while I was mostly blaming my father(he is emotionally unavailable) for feeling so needy, I find out with EMDR work that I have very deep and intense mother problems, especially about being neglected. I hardly realized this because I have a very caring, loving and also possesive mother. It seems to be a taboo for me to judge her and I feel guilt when I accept this reality. But I start to see our pattern. For the first time a therapist told me that I have an attachment disorder and unconsciously I don’t want to break my bond with my mother so she told me that I always choose unavailable men and live a crisis of abandoning the mother.

It really makes sense to me, the problem of attachment disorder really fits Venus-Saturn hard aspects. And I am writing this here because I recommend people with hard Venus-Saturn aspects to learn about attachment problems(I went to lots of therapists but none of them told me it this clear). We started an EMDR work to understand why I am having a very painful crisis just because the man I like don’t show an affection to me. Under this pattern, a huge rage to my mother about being neglected came to surface and I cried “how can you do this, how can you?”. I don’t remember anything but the therapist told me that I talk with metaphors a lot, so it can go back to my very early childhood like 2 or 3 years old. So now we’ll go on working on it. The first pain I felt is gone now, I am comfortable with the man if he is not interested much in me. I only feel a disappointment not an existantial crisis which is normal.

I understand that I have to reborn and grow myself again. I hardly work on these issues because I have a very stubborn side which tends to isolate and shut myself, like being offended in a childish manner, waiting for someone(mother, father, doctor or God) to help and save me. And this is a kind of punishment to myself for not solving the problem easily and quickly. I am aware of Neptune issues now. I stopped being the therapist of other people(with Virgo Moon I tend to fix everyone also) but I find it hard to go outside of the victim psychology even if I am aware of it.

What helped me? I believe there are helpful aspects and positions in my chart as well as negative ones. And the kind of work helps a person changes I think. For me, knowing and understanding myself psychologically and also learning the nature of human psychology, the dynamics of emotions, the dynamics of trauma have always been the most helpful things. But that can be because of my Virgo Moon and the positive aspects of Pluto in 1st house and also good aspected Mercury. Since the most thing I fear is uncertainity, I tend to learn and rationalize everything and it makes me very comfortable to know the reasons why I am behaving or feeling in that way. So yes, Virgo Moon helps me a lot to make my inner dynamics clear to me and my Mercury helps me to express it verbally. These positions help me very much because I have hard aspects of Neptune. I am also a very curious person, I have an impulse to learn deeper realities which I think is connected to my 9th house Sun-Mars position, and again powerful scorpio energy surrounding my ascendant.

Thanks to Libra asc, and my powerful Mercury, I am social, I like to know new people, I easily connect with people, make them feel comfortable around me and have fun a lot together. With this motivation I overcome my social anxiety which was phobia in my childhood and adolescent years. Now I have confidence in making friends but still have problems with more intense and close relationships(8th house Venus). I learned to put borders around me, learned the tricks of daily relationships and I am good at. People mostly find me very sempathic and smiling. I just still have problems with more close relationships. if you look at my chart you'll see there is a positive triangle with Mercury in the MC in the other side of my Venus-Saturn-Jupiter triangle. My academic career healed me so much. I feel very secure and comfortable with the people here. Seeing the same people every day (a stabil enviroment) and creating strong connections with them helped me so much and I also feel accepted because we are usually similar to each other mentally.

It is very important for the Venus-Saturn people to learn the projection and transmission terms in psychology. I learned that I constantly try to create an old scene(life is a theater yes) in my current relationships and wait a different outcome. Again I am transmitting mother or father image to the man I like or a close friend and desperately wait for the attention I need so much. This causes to choose wrong people for close relationships because you can’t see the real person near you, you just see the projection and it is not healty, it is just a repetation of past. Also the other person cannot understand why you are so sensitive to his/her behaviours or words. It is necessary to first realize these projections and transmission and face with the real pain of absent attention and love in our childhood.

I also have nodes with Venus-Saturn opposition which shows me that these patterns are coming from my family roots(I am also working o family karma and healing). My mother has Saturn in her 4th house for example…My mother side aunts never married, uncles divorced. My father also has strong Saturn aspects(to his Sun and Mercury) and there are generational patterns of being fatherless in his family. So this is a generational problem.

I am still working on it…my journey goes on. I can recommend some books about this problem: David Richo’s “When the past is present”, Shapiro’s EMDR books, any article on attachment and abondonment wounds and about healing the inner child.


Like you, I also have Venus opposite Saturn, but also accompanied by many other aspects like Sun opposite Saturn. Saturn is part of my t-square involving Sun, Venus, Uranus and Moon, and all of them are in angular houses (1st, 4th,10th). My chart ruler is also saturn and saturn in my chart is really weak (Aries).

I think other aspects may apply besides Venus-Saturn, but I definitley relate to you about the attachment disorder. Both my friendship and love life revolves around this, except my lovelife consists of me suddenly detaching (probably Venus square Uranus in my chart). But yeah. Its been a reoccuring lesson throughout my 18 years of my life. I've met way too many people, had way too many friends only to find them vanishing later on. I've always wanted to belong somewhere, to someone or to some place but my environment is never EVER stable and its always been changing. I became depressed and blamed myself for my inability to keep friends (later on, I began to understand why). I feel like I'm always the background, the extra friend that is constanlty forgotten about. In a group, I'm always sticking out, slightly different with different dreams in life and so I never was able to relate to my 'squads' and the little stuff they over value.

When I finally get to belong to a group or to some friends, life always puts me into a position where I have to say goodbye and its always too quick. It makes me feel even lonelier, but I've learned that life is full of changes, what ceases to grow has to go. And I find that very relevant to my nodal placements as well ( Leo NN 8th house, Aqua SN 2nd house)

I've come to a point where I let loose, I won't hold on immediately and be clingy anymore, because I know it won't last (makes me a little bitter but this is how I handle my attachment problems). Then people question why I'm always a little detached, a little more of a loner. I just say nothing because it would be a long story.

As for the love life, I also am very attracted to unavailable men, or attracted to the ones who don't even love me back. I find that I love with pain (Venus in scorpio) but I've had two relationships and I was the one that broke away because I felt that I needed my freedom. Years later, I regretted it.

I'm just 18 anyway. I'm still growing. Thought I'd share my experiences too, sicne I resonate with your experiences as well. I wish I had a friend who is on the same boat, maybe that person and I would become long time bestfriends. I'ce always wanted one, just one would be fine. I'd be really happy. Guess I just have to wait then.
 

jkxx74

Premium Member
Hi midnight sun and thank you for posting this - the difficulties and the revelations you have had. Mainly I wanted to say that it looks like you are on the right track with the various things you are doing to understand yourself better; because of this you can expect to start seeing progress even more quickly than you have up until now.

As someone who also has to deal with a very powerful Saturn I'll confirm the bits about projection especially - understanding this is huge especially once you start watching yourself more closely and seeing when you are being fed a conclusion by your Saturn vs actual reality. In case you are interested in more books, I recommend "Saturn: a new look at an old devil" and if you like this one also "Barriers and boundaries" by Liz Greene. Both put the magnifying glass on Saturn, especially the first one.

Regarding your Venus-Saturn opposition it might be that yours is especially potent because you have Venus in Pluto's house opposing Saturn in Pluto's sign/a Venus ruled house (2) so there is almost another layer of linkage between these two planets going beyond the opposition aspect. The most damaging part about the aspect itself is not so much that you need love and affection which is OK but that Saturn is telling you that it is not Ok - and it looks like you are well on your way to figuring this out.

Regarding your father who you mentioned is unavailable, this seems to be a rather common finding with the Sun in hard aspect to Neptune in a natal chart so the Sun-Neptune opposition is something you may want to look up for more experiences and interpretations related to this. Because the Sun represents men more generally this does imply you tend to have a hard time seeing men as they really are and this blurriness could be adding to the difficulties you mentioned.

And as for positive aspects, you have an extremely positive tight trine between your Sun and Pluto which is an aspect of healing and self-transformation. Even if your identity has suffered because of wounds in childhood or events brought on by your Venus-Saturn opposition you have the strength to overcome this and purge the false/bad beliefs from your being. So keep at it, because it's only going to get better as you keep going.
 

Lin

Well-known member
I think the Sun opp Neptune affects you more than you are aware of....since the Sun rules the house of friends.
So I wouldn't blame Saturn totally for this issue.

the problem with Neptune is that you are not "aware" of your part in the issue.
As opposed to Saturn opp Venus which makes you very self critical (and also other person critical - it goes both ways).

but at least you have something to work with when it's Saturn.

when Neptune is the problem you can be in the dark indefinitely and not have a clue.

LIN
 

midnight sun

Well-known member
Thank you UraSatVen1029 for your reply. I am sure you will understand your pattern when you are ready. I just want to add something, an idea I found in myself, maybe it can suit on you, too. "Always looking for a friend group for being a part of" can mean you are looking for an alternative family unconsciously. When we look for an alternative family, we can tend to expect much more than our friends or group can give us. Then we feel more disappointment, and choose wrong groups maybe...
 

midnight sun

Well-known member
Thank you jkxx74 for your reply and book suggestion and thank you Lin for your reply.

You both are right about Neptune aspects in my chart. Sun also represents the Self and I always have a blurred image of myself. I tried hard to create a clear image of myself. It is like I lost my identity in the past and looking for it. I try hard to make myself “definable”. I like to do personality tests or surveys so much because they help me to define myself, to draw borders of myself. Having borders were also a big issue but I finally learn it. Or setting myself from other people’s emotions. I tend to feel every pain in the world and I have clairaudience…

Unfortunately, we lived something terrible two weeks ago. On 31th of July, at midnight, my cousin who is living in another city, commited suicide and died. It is really shocking for our whole family because he is a very full of spirit person, always witty and affectionate. He was 42, married and have a 10 year old daughter.

I felt very strange because I just started to get theraphy for my abondanment and attachment problems and he killed himself because his wife wanted to get divorce. He left an online letter in which he says he can’t live without her, without his family and he couldn’t make her happy despite doing everything(especially materially). Obviously he died of abandonment depression which we are working on with my therapist. She told me that abandonment depression is something very close to death and is very painful. She told me my all feelings of emptiness and meaningless belongs to this kind of depression which is connected to the first (problematic) separation with mother.

I quickly checked transits to my birth chart and find out that Scorpio Moon conjuncted my south node and Saturn that night. That increases my feeling about this event as being part of our family karma. I started to think about my cousins’ and their parents’ relationship with each other and I find out a pattern finally. In the last three generation, the father is always absent (sometimes emotionally) but there are always dominant and controlling mothers in the families. So there is a mother issue for sure but I still don’t know how to solve it completely.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
I have Venus semi-sextile Saturn natal. It is the tightest aspect in the chart. I never considered it but in many ways it has played out with rejection and lack of love all that stuff especially since I went through a Venus Saturn progression recently, Venus progressed conjunct Saturn.

My Saturn is also in Scorpio, so the theme for that was betrayal. The point is, if you put yourself in a position where you can be betrayed, it becomes inevitable.


What have I learnt?

Never give, expecting to be treated the same back. People will forget your generosity after five minutes and only ask for more.

Marriage and tradition are good things and valuable. They are there to protect both men and women from being betrayed and exploited, from being cheated. The stigma of "adultery" is there to help deter that from happening.

People who rent don't care as much as people who buy. Buy a car or house, then you will take good care of it. Rent a car or house, and who cares what happens. Venus Saturn is the person wanting to buy of course, so when you come across those who are happy go lucky types, you should expect that they will disappear by tomorrow.

Lot of weak, here today gone tomorrow type of people out there. Best is to build your defences high and hold out until you meet someone worthwhile.

Obviously you must become a "worthwhile" person yourself, and if you aren't then you have to spend a few years working on yourself, achievements, success. What kind of person do you want? You need to be a good match for that person. Do you make your bed every morning? These kind of questions.
 

Lin

Well-known member
Also Moon trine Neptune is an "enabler". It gives you the "go ahead" to repeat the drama or the story or the dynamic.....and expect another outcome.

So.,...maybe you need to study that a bit. Because if you don't allow yourself to get involved with the wrong man because you are familiar with the feelings that lead to the unsatisfactory end result, then the story won't proceed. And really, THAT is what you need to do next. NOT go down that road when your Neptune trine Moon is tempting you.
LIN
 

blackbery

Well-known member
I have Saturn opposition Venus in my birth chart and I am analyzing it since I start to learn astrology a little bit. Astrology helped me to understand my repeating patterns and the deep wounds lying under them. I always opened threads with depressed feelings but now I would like to tell the progress I have done.

But it is not easy and it is a journey I understood. I mean no miracle happens suddenly and your whole love life and relationships change…I hardly accept this reality, the reality that I have to grow myself in time with hard work.

I am 32 years old now and I am actively working on this since 2008. Sometimes I shut myself without hope, sometimes I get hopeful and work on it more. It is just too painful to live the same pattern but I am a real survivor.
projections and transmission and face with the real pain of absent attention and love in our childhood.

I also have nodes with Venus-Saturn opposition which shows me that these patterns are coming from my family roots(I am also working o family karma and healing). My mother has Saturn in her 4th house for example…My mother side aunts never married, uncles divorced. My father also has strong Saturn aspects(to his Sun and Mercury) and there are generational patterns of being fatherless in his family. So this is a generational problem.

I am still working on it…my journey goes on. I can recommend some bookabout this problem: David Richo’s “When the past is present”, Shapiro’s EMDR books, any article on attachment and abondonment wounds and about healing the inner child.

YES, You are a survivor. Bravo for doing the work and having the Moon/Neptune/Pluto insight to understand what you need to do to cope
with such an aspect as Venus/Saturn opposition. You also have Moon sq
SAturn causing further depression and 'family cycle of depression'.

Once you have completed the work, you will be ready for true love. Many
people who have easy Venus placements never do the work and marry over & over again in endless cycle of desperation and fear of being alone. Venus/
SAturn people are not afraid of being alone, of peering into their soul. They
need to make sense of it all. Venus/Saturn opposition/square realize that
they must love themselves first before they can accept/offer love because
they take love very seriously. They want one marriage, not 3 or 5 like some
people who bounce from relationship to marriage in 2 easy steps only to be
divorced in 5 mins!
Venus/Saturn is a mature love and comes in mid-life.

The expression 'the best is yet to come' is so appropriate for this aspect.

:smile::smile::smile:
 

UraSatVen1029

Well-known member
I have Venus semi-sextile Saturn natal. It is the tightest aspect in the chart. I never considered it but in many ways it has played out with rejection and lack of love all that stuff especially since I went through a Venus Saturn progression recently, Venus progressed conjunct Saturn.

My Saturn is also in Scorpio, so the theme for that was betrayal. The point is, if you put yourself in a position where you can be betrayed, it becomes inevitable.


What have I learnt?

Never give, expecting to be treated the same back. People will forget your generosity after five minutes and only ask for more.

Marriage and tradition are good things and valuable. They are there to protect both men and women from being betrayed and exploited, from being cheated. The stigma of "adultery" is there to help deter that from happening.

People who rent don't care as much as people who buy. Buy a car or house, then you will take good care of it. Rent a car or house, and who cares what happens. Venus Saturn is the person wanting to buy of course, so when you come across those who are happy go lucky types, you should expect that they will disappear by tomorrow.

Lot of weak, here today gone tomorrow type of people out there. Best is to build your defences high and hold out until you meet someone worthwhile.

Obviously you must become a "worthwhile" person yourself, and if you aren't then you have to spend a few years working on yourself, achievements, success. What kind of person do you want? You need to be a good match for that person. Do you make your bed every morning? These kind of questions.

This one is very relatable. I have Venus-Saturn opposition, same with Sun and Saturn as well.

You must love yourself first. Work on yourself first. Then you will stop hurting yourself because "people come and go" and its life, basically. You will be that "worthwhile" person and you will attract people who will want to be with you once you achieve that. Don't stretch yourself too thin just to gain appreciation/making people stay.

Love yourself.
 

jkxx74

Premium Member
Hi midnight sun,

I am so sorry to hear about your cousin. That is a terrible thing to have happen especially when it is someone close to you in your family and comes as a surprise to everyone. I have been dealing, indirectly, with the theme your cousin experienced although so far it is impacting the persons affected by depression only. Regardless it can be difficult to comprehend the events and make any sense of them when something this drastic happens. I hope in light of what has happened everyone will get together and start talking and reflecting on what led to the outcome.

As for the aspects you mentioned, Sun-Neptune can't really build an identity as such because Neptune's nature is to be changeable and numinous, such as that one identifies strongly with non-material values and the subtlety of existence but not so much with one's own ego and natural self-centeredness. Thus it is not altogether a bad aspect as long as you guard against unscrupulous people who misinterpret your sensitivity and try to take advantage of you - that is the culprit with Neptune, but as long as you guard against the possibility you can do well understanding your path is a bit different from what you normally see. I think your sig on this forum is a good reflection of this. You do have a "powerful mother" aspect in your chart as well, and that is your Moon sextile Pluto if you want to look it up.


Night Sky,

Thanks for that description - it describes Venus-Saturn really well. There is something I want to touch on though -

The statements "Never give, expecting to be treated the same back", "Best is to build your defences high and hold out until you meet someone worthwhile" really describe pure Saturnian traits. Saturn acts by making you aware of a perceived lack of something important you want or need such that you will never get it unless you do a ton of hard work. To get you to actually do the work it does something paradoxical - making you aware of people and things out there that represent the thing you want to do yourself. Any planets Saturn is connected to will be influenced by its behavior in this way.

Enter Venus, which is about pure values and that which we find beautiful, worthwhile, and of value to us - when Venus is paired with Saturn you get Saturn's "lots of hard work" attitude and suspicion of life and others meshing with Venus' expression. So whenever you are in situation which triggers Venus you bring Saturn along with it and there is an implicit "do you really value that? are you sure? really sure?" type of question raised by Saturn. The downside of this is that Saturn will rain down on any interest on the part of Venus towards others or the outside world in general which generates the feeling that it is very hard to give and receive affection (along with some more mundane expressions of this.) The upside is that as with any aspect involving Saturn this one leads to the discovery of some nearly absolute values one has that will endure and will not change with the times.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
This one is very relatable. I have Venus-Saturn opposition, same with Sun and Saturn as well.

You must love yourself first. Work on yourself first. Then you will stop hurting yourself because "people come and go" and its life, basically. You will be that "worthwhile" person and you will attract people who will want to be with you once you achieve that. Don't stretch yourself too thin just to gain appreciation/making people stay.

Love yourself.

Thanks I agree with that. That is just about what I meant in my words. To become worthwhile you produce something, you have talents from hard work and persistence. Eventually financial success too and you also begin to understand the value of money, things and people.

Good investments and bad investments in all areas. You know what bad investments look like, in money, things and people, because you have already had a number of bad experiences where they broke and left you wanting more, and wondering why they did not last.

Here's what I've learnt, I'm going to share it freely though others may charge you and arm and a leg for this:

Good money: Gold, Silver, property, art.
Good things: High quality, best brands, don't be cheap.
Good people: Strong morals, good family, never lies, never brags.

You can take light-heartedly. But, I've worked out a lot of things during my Venus Saturn progression.Things and money are comparable to relationships in many ways.

On the psychological level of course, the suffering experiences are there to teach us, don't make the same mistakes. Don't buy a cheap brand. I worked in order to get the money, I sacrificed months if not years of my life working, to buy something, maybe a laptop. I bought a good one in 2010, it's still going OK. It was a good brand, so that was a good deal. Before that I bought one which was an unknown brand but I went for it because it was cheap for the specifications, but unfortunately it gave up after only a year or two. Bad decision, I made when I was in my early 20`s. I'm in my early 30`s now, and I've learnt, I've learnt so well. I just know what a bad deal looks like now. I know what a good deal looks like, and it's so important, because it's my life. My life is time, time which I will never get back, and I want to be happy and do things I enjoy.

Spending you learn, and the flip side, is earning, where I've also learnt. I worked washing dishes at the age of 20. At the age of 12 I worked delivering newspapers for $15 per week. That was a bad deal, a really bad deal, but at the age of 12, you take it, because you can get CD's, sweets and magazines. Unfortunately those were such a bad deal too in those days. If I could go back and tell myself one financial piece of advice, it would have been, just listen to the radio, you are working a whole week just to buy a CD? Of course the internet was not what it is nowadays.

Don't they say fine wine ages, or age makes the wine fine. Of course they do. I worked for $17 per hour weekends and evenings, while doing Masters at the same time, while paying rent, then living in my own apartment.

So, things have changed furthermore, it has improved, I am doing what I love, though it is taking longer than expected. And the money is flowing in, like a hard rock that once you've started to role doesn't stop.

Earning is a learning experience too. You've got to produce something that no-one can do it like you. It's got to be good quality and lasting and meaningful. Something of real value that you personally keep yourself, if you didn't decide to make others happy with it for the correct price.

Where am I in that stage? I'm just three years after the Saturn Return. That's where I am. Just found out that I love myself and everything I do and I'm worth a lot to me, so much, so incredibly much that I'm not going to allow anyone to treat me like trash any more. Anyone that does, will be thrown out like the useless garbage that doesn't serve, because I only want quality now. As I get older I get better, I value myself more, but it is through my work that this value comes.

When I sit down to work, I'm nothing and nobody. There is no "I" no ego. I'm just going to try to do a good job and if it isn't good enough then tomorrow I will try again and the quality work, perhaps I will only keep 1 in 100 days.

When I get rejected it is because the person rejecting me was not good enough. That's right, the tables have turned. It was once the other way around. I may be lucky with my Saturn as it is conjunct Pluto, in Scorpio, so I can turn things around. It's taken long enough and it's not finished yet. I've got so much more to do, so much more to do before I have the game I want. I want quality in every last aspect, every angle, pure quality, lasting, nothing shoddy, only the best materials, the people with highest integrity and loyalty, because nothing else is good enough for me. Because I f****** love myself.

I hope that explains things, and I hope it helps people with Venus Saturn aspects or Saturn in the 2nd. These lessons are so important to me, it means so much to me. It means everything. I'm not there yet, by no means, but the road is clear to me now. I know the road and I know the terrain and I know how I am getting there.
 
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Night Sky

Well-known member
Night Sky,

Thanks for that description - it describes Venus-Saturn really well. There is something I want to touch on though -

The statements "Never give, expecting to be treated the same back", "Best is to build your defences high and hold out until you meet someone worthwhile" really describe pure Saturnian traits. Saturn acts by making you aware of a perceived lack of something important you want or need such that you will never get it unless you do a ton of hard work. To get you to actually do the work it does something paradoxical - making you aware of people and things out there that represent the thing you want to do yourself. Any planets Saturn is connected to will be influenced by its behavior in this way.

Enter Venus, which is about pure values and that which we find beautiful, worthwhile, and of value to us - when Venus is paired with Saturn you get Saturn's "lots of hard work" attitude and suspicion of life and others meshing with Venus' expression. So whenever you are in situation which triggers Venus you bring Saturn along with it and there is an implicit "do you really value that? are you sure? really sure?" type of question raised by Saturn. The downside of this is that Saturn will rain down on any interest on the part of Venus towards others or the outside world in general which generates the feeling that it is very hard to give and receive affection (along with some more mundane expressions of this.) The upside is that as with any aspect involving Saturn this one leads to the discovery of some nearly absolute values one has that will endure and will not change with the times.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. You might see I was replying to another comment while you were writing there.

I completely agree about what you said. I've discovered my absolute values, perhaps I have touched on them or begun to reveal them hidden as treasure in the dirt.

I hope you read my other response there are some of my lessons learnt. But obviously it may be that the development from my birth to my 1st Saturn Return is only a long road and the truth is not revealed until the last day of my life.

In the other comment I said I would tell my younger self not to waste that money on CD's. I did not admit my Dad always said that to me at age 12, and I had to make my mistakes. I started listening to him in my 20's already so I got a good start there.

Just before he died, during my Saturn Return he told me the story of Alexander the Great, how he conquered the world and left with his hands riding outside the funeral wagon to show the world that he is not taking anything with him.

I'm listening to him now. I listened to him then of course, it was such a big deal, it is such as big deal, it's such a huge deal for me. Those words repeat in my mind whenever I think of him. His Sun-Saturn was opposite my Venus in synastry, all angular. All dignified and angular.

I'm on a few conquests. How is the game going? OK, just about, got some territory, what kind of territory? Good enough to use as a stepping stone. Of course it's not just "money" it's the whole game, everything, everything that the Devil has to offer, I'm here to take. But I know I'll follow Jesus at the end of the road and whatever I get or don't get I'm leaving with my hands hanging out of the hearse. There are other values besides materiality that I've studied in depth.

What do I want? The adventure is good and necessary. It's what we are here for. My Dad was right about so much. "Son, go out and conquer, but when the game is over, don't try to keep it." The meaning isn't something trite, the meaning is so big, it's massive. You have to go out there and do it. Subjugate the world, make it the way you like, get quality in what you want, get the territory, get everything, defeat your enemies, destroy them and win. Thanks Dad. I'll do it. He was a Saturn conjunct Sun person in Aries. Aries Stellium.

You have to improve on things. So I must improve on his victories and mistakes just as much as I paid attention to his words on my own. He sometimes said things were good enough when they weren't. He compromised, and I won't. I won't. Despite his hard effort and never ending work, some areas he made wrong judgement, because he didn't know what I know now. Not to say I am not listening to him now. Everything is taken in, plus more.

The flip side of saying "is it good enough?" is that when I turned things around, I'm the one in control now, I am the one that calls the shots. I'm the one that says, "you're not good enough for me". There is no other way it can be. Whether I have money or not, it doesn't really matter, I won't tolerate being treated badly by people, things or money in any way. I've worked hard enough, sacrificed enough and actually seems like everything is slowly falling in place, piece by piece, magically. Some days are bad, I don't do a good enough job, but eventually I get there because I know where I am going.

I am at this stage where I am quite happy and optimistic about the future though there are some enemies still to defeat, territory to gain and it looks difficult in some ways. But looking at how far I have come, I should be able to do it.
 
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