Saturn symbol of opposition

[socrates]

Hi
Since opposition is associated with Saturn how do interpret sun Saturn conjunction compared to opposition betwen both?

Thanks

[Thread moved from Traditional Astrology board because the topic is not explicitly traditional and non-traditional perspectives have been posted without pushback from OP. - Moderator]

 

[david starling]

Hi
Since opposition is associated with Saturn how do interpret sun Saturn conjunction compared to opposition betwen both?

Thanks

Sect matters. Is it a day or a night chart? Also, how tight is the conjunction in minutes of orb?

 

[socrates]

I dont know the sect but opposition is of Saturn's nature. Suppose its day chart hence more favourable?

 

[JUPITERASC]

I dont know the sect but opposition is of Saturn's nature.

that's not a traditional perspective

Suppose its day chart hence more favourable?

generalisation is fun but unreliable
and so
post the chart




.

 

[dr. farr]

I really object to the universally bad rap given to saturn in Hellenistic and traditional western astrology; I much prefer the more balanced view of saturn found in Vedic astrology; in my experience saturn Can Be a golden benefic depending on co-factors in the given chart…

 

[waybread]

I don't see Saturn as having any special relationship with the opposition aspect.

Having Saturn actually oppose a natal planet or chart angle will carry its own meaning. In traditional astrology this was usually negative but there could be mitigating factors. Saturn joys in the 12th house. A domiciled Saturn (i.e., in Capricorn or Aquarius) is supposedly less harmful. Saturn is exalted in Libra. Saturn conjunct, sextile, or trine Jupiter or conjunct Venus should be less harmful.

 

[david starling]

Saturn as the "Greater Malefic" in astrology was translated into the early Church's "Prince of this World"* they named "Satan", the "Enemy" of Jesus.

*"This World" meant the material world. As in, "What profith a man to gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"-{Mark 8-36}

 

[dr. farr]

Yes,they had a “good god” (sun; sometimes Jupiter) so in their dominant dualism they had to have a devil (saturn) or for many modernists, Pluto…

However, to be historically accurate, by the time of Arabic astrology on through about the 18th century in Europe, the sun-as well as mercury and the moon-was considered of mixed influence,with Saturn and mars considered malefic and Venus and Jupiter considered benefic.

 

[dr. farr]

In my natal chart, saturn rising in the ascendant of Virgo had a largely stabilizing influence on the rising planets of Neptune, mars, Pluto and Uranus which, without saturn being where it was, would have given me a very chaotic life indeed
(Sorry I had to mention the outers in order to illustrate my point about saturn)

 

[dr. farr]

Some books illuminating the other side of saturn are:
-Saturn Friend and Guide
-Little Book of Saturn by Ainkorn
-Saturn Spiritual Master Spiritual Friend by Wilkinson

 

[david starling]

My Saturn is unaspected in my natal in H6 whole-Sign I can access it through transits, but I only do that in emergency situations.

 

[Osamenor]

Hi
Since opposition is associated with Saturn

How is opposition associated with Saturn, in your understanding? Do you mean the opposition aspect, or do you mean opposition in some more general sense of the word?

I've never heard of any particular association between Saturn and the opposition aspect, except when Saturn is involved in one. Astrology doesn't assign rulership of aspects to planets and never has.

how do interpret sun Saturn conjunction compared to opposition betwen both?

Do you mean a transiting conjunction or opposition, or a natal one?

 

[david starling]

How is opposition associated with Saturn, in your understanding? Do you mean the opposition aspect, or do you mean opposition in some more general sense of the word?

I've never heard of any particular association between Saturn and the opposition aspect, except when Saturn is involved in one. Astrology doesn't assign rulership of aspects to planets and never has.



Do you mean a transiting conjunction or opposition, or a natal one?

Less specific. More like obstacles, setbacks, restrictions, and misfortunes in general. The Romans considered Saturn to be the god of accidents.

Osa, in general, how do you interpret opposition as an aspect? Would it be a total lack of communication and/or cooperation between two placements in the chart? Whereas squares would be difficulties with communication and/or cooperation that can be overcome with effort, trines make communication easy, and conjunctions make it automatic?

Or, something along those lines?

 

[dr. farr]

[QUOTE=Osamenor;1165490

I've never heard of any particular association between Saturn and the opposition aspect, except when Saturn is involved in one. Astrology doesn't assign rulership of aspects to planets and never has.




Right-I have never come across such a ruler ship allocation in the literature; but I can understand how one could get the (erroneous) idea of an affinity between planets and aspects, especially so in traditionalist literature where planets are too often rigidly classified as benefic or malefic; eg, opposition = malefic = saturn, square = malefic = mars, trine = benefic = Jupiter, sextile = benefic = venus, conjunction = variable = mercury; but of course this way of thinking about planets and aspects is erroneous and would lead to problems in making accurate delineations.

 

[waybread]

So there's an aspect called an opposition. It does work a bit like having an opponent in a game or in one's job. A nemesis, or rival.

But these are not entirely evil. In astrology, working with an aspect teaches how to reconcile two planets who want very different things, by sign and house. Otherwise we get a "see-saw" effect of sometimes playing up one planet until the other one starts screaming for attention; then ignoring the first planet. Worse, sometimes we favor one planet entirely, and suppress and deny the other one.

Working with aspects, we learn how opposites can collaborate. Mars in Aries wants to skydive. Saturn in Libra says, "Fine, but double-check your safety equipment and listen to your instructor."

Saturn is my wisest teacher. His lessons are not a lot of fun: patience, hard work, frugality, deferred gratification. But these are important skills to learn. Then Saturn tends to reward his pupils later in life.

By ruling fear, Saturn teaches courage. By ruling shame, Saturn teaches self-respect.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I've never heard of any particular association between Saturn and the opposition aspect, except when Saturn is involved in one. Astrology doesn't assign rulership of aspects to planets and never has.

Right
-
I have never come across such a ruler ship allocation in the literature;

but
I can understand how

one could get the (erroneous) idea
of an affinity between planets and aspects, especially so
in traditionalist literature

where planets are too often rigidly classified as benefic or malefic;

that's an interesting opinion

eg, opposition = malefic = saturn,
square = malefic = mars,
trine = benefic = Jupiter,
sextile = benefic = venus,
conjunction = variable = mercury;

but of course this way of thinking about planets and aspects is erroneous

and would lead to problems in making accurate delineations.

So there's an aspect called an opposition. It does work a bit like having an opponent in a game or in one's job. A nemesis, or rival.

But these are not entirely evil. In astrology, working with an aspect teaches how to reconcile two planets who want very different things, by sign and house. Otherwise we get a "see-saw" effect of sometimes playing up one planet until the other one starts screaming for attention; then ignoring the first planet. Worse, sometimes we favor one planet entirely, and suppress and deny the other one.

Working with aspects, we learn how opposites can collaborate. Mars in Aries wants to skydive. Saturn in Libra says, "Fine, but double-check your safety equipment and listen to your instructor."

Saturn is my wisest teacher. His lessons are not a lot of fun: patience, hard work, frugality, deferred gratification. But these are important skills to learn. Then Saturn tends to reward his pupils later in life.

By ruling fear, Saturn teaches courage. By ruling shame, Saturn teaches self-respect.

traditional literature doesn't assign rulership of planets to aspects

in contrast
Modernist erroneous thinking is bewildered when Venus transits pass
without automatic benefit

meanwhile
Traditional astrologers calculate Profected LOY
aka Lord Of The Year
and then
while noting THE CONDITION OF NATAL VENUS
discern
whether Venus is intensified
also ZODIACAL RELEASING provides detail


.

 

[Osamenor]

Less specific. More like obstacles, setbacks, restrictions, and misfortunes in general. The Romans considered Saturn to be the god of accidents.

That question was meant for the OP. It's not clear to me what they mean by associating Saturn with opposition.

Osa, in general, how do you interpret opposition as an aspect? Would it be a total lack of communication and/or cooperation between two placements in the chart? Whereas squares would be difficulties with communication and/or cooperation that can be overcome with effort, trines make communication easy, and conjunctions make it automatic?

Or, something along those lines?

All aspects are communication between planets. It's when planets don't have an aspect that they aren't communicating.

The type of aspect tells us what kind of communication it is. Squares are a tense aspect. They're like arguing buddies.

Oppositions are opposite approaches with a common theme. Signs in opposition are two sides of the same coin. Planets in opposition represent those two perspectives. They're very different, but there's some common ground between them. At best, they balance each other. At worst, they get into such a tug-of-war that they're going nowhere.

 

[david starling]

Thanks Osa, for the clarification. I should have used the terminology "Agreement and "Disagreement" concerning the what the overall nature of the chart should be, involving communication between placements in aspect with one another

Conjunction: A lot of agreement.

Trine: A fair amount of agreement.

Square: A fair amount of disagreement which can be resolved with some effort.

Opposition: A lot of disagreement, extremely difficult to resolve.

 

[david starling]

Saturn has a "my way or the highway" attitude, more so than others. Best to let Saturn have its way, or find a means of getting around it, imo.

 

[dr. farr]

I like to consider the energetic interplay involved in aspects as various degrees of resonance or dissonance between or among the aspecting factors.