Saturn symbol of opposition

david starling

Well-known member
I like to consider the energetic interplay involved in aspects as various degrees of resonance or dissonance between or among the aspecting factors.

Instead of "agreement or disagreement"?

You have a very elegant way of explaining things!
 

waybread

Well-known member
Saturn has a "my way or the highway" attitude, more so than others. Best to let Saturn have its way, or find a means of getting around it, imo.

David, Saturn represents things that cannot be gotten around. Old age. hardship, disappointment, fear....

If we cannot face these things with courage, we remain perpetual children-- or like plastic Ken and Barbie dolls that never get out of the cellophane packaging.

Bad things do happen to good people. Saturn represents the crud in life. But Saturn can teach us to face it with an open mind and dignity.

We can choose empowering or disempowering responses.

Unsurprisingly Hellenistic astrology was a companion of stoic philosophy.

Saturn teaches values like self-discipline and getting by with very little. Rather than hope the bad times won't happen, it's best to build one's character with Saturn's lessons.
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, Saturn represents things that cannot be gotten around. Old age. hardship, disappointment, fear....

If we cannot face these things with courage, we remain perpetual children-- or like plastic Ken and Barbie dolls that never get out of the cellophane packaging.

Bad things do happen to good people. Saturn represents the crud in life. But Saturn can teach us to face it with an open mind and dignity.

We can choose empowering or disempowering responses.

Unsurprisingly Hellenistic astrology was a companion of stoic philosophy.

Saturn teaches values like self-discipline and getting by with very little. Rather than hope the bad times won't happen, it's best to build one's character with Saturn's lessons.


Those who CAN'T deal with it properly are the real problem. Not Saturn itself.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Albert Einstein had Mercury tight conjunct Saturn in Aries in H10. Here's a quote: "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

(That's a longitudinal conjunction, incidentally. I haven't checked it for parallel.)
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
I think the charts at astrodatabank include declination under “additional tables”.

Got it. Here's a teaching moment.

Without precisely adjusting for time of birth relative to 0 GMT, and looking at Albert's Mercury/Saturn longitudinal conjunction, Mercury was within 1 degree north, and Saturn within 1 degree south. So, within less than 2 degrees apart, but contra-parallel.

What's the verdict as to the strength of the 1 degree orb longitudinal conjunction with declination factored in?
 

Witchyone

Well-known member
Got it. Here's a teaching moment.

Without precisely adjusting for time of birth relative to 0 GMT, and looking at Albert's Mercury/Saturn longitudinal conjunction, Mercury was within 1 degree north, and Saturn within 1 degree south. So, within less than 2 degrees apart, but contra-parallel.

What's the verdict as to the strength of the 1 degree orb longitudinal conjunction with declination factored in?

I've read before that Mercury conjunct Saturn leads to slowness of mind and learning disabilities. It's funny to me that Einstein had it, and at such a tight orb, given that his name is synonymous with intelligence.

Perhaps you can explain it with the contraparallel declination, but I dislike that explanation, because I have the aspect too (and also in Cancer, but loosely) but my Saturn and Mercury are parallel, so that still leaves me in the dunce corner. lol

More seriously, it's interesting to me that his incredible intelligence led to a discovery that can destroy the world, a discovery he ultimately regretted.
 

blackbery

Well-known member
:saturn: always inhibits, frustrates & delays. Delays but not always denies.

Einstein :mercury::saturn::conjunct: within one degree orb, his communication development was delayed, he spoke much later than other children, had trouble with grammar & spelling & failed his college entrance exams the first time around. They say he could have had dyslexia which would fit with the :saturn: obstruction to his :mercury: :)gemini: thought processes).

It wasn't Einstein who created the atomic bomb & it was Robert Openheimer who regretted it by uttering the famous words: (who himself has a very tense :mercury::square::saturn:aspect.)

As he witnessed the first detonation of a nuclear weapon on July 16, 1945, a piece of Hindu scripture ran through the mind of Robert Oppenheimer: “Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds”



Although he never worked directly on the atomic bomb, Einstein is often incorrectly associated with the advent of nuclear weapons. His famous equation E=mc2 explains the energy released in an atomic bomb but doesn't explain how to build one. He repeatedly reminded people, "I do not consider myself the father of the release of atomic energy. My part in it was quite indirect."



https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/peace-and-war/the-manhattan-project




I've read before that Mercury conjunct Saturn leads to slowness of mind and learning disabilities. It's funny to me that Einstein had it, and at such a tight orb, given that his name is synonymous with intelligence.

More seriously, it's interesting to me that his incredible intelligence led to a discovery that can destroy the world, a discovery he ultimately regretted.
 

Witchyone

Well-known member
:saturn: always inhibits, frustrates & delays. Delays but not always denies.

Einstein :mercury::saturn::conjunct: within one degree orb, his communication development was delayed, he spoke much later than other children, had trouble with grammar & spelling & failed his college entrance exams the first time around. They say he could have had dyslexia which would fit with the :saturn: obstruction to his :mercury: :)gemini: thought processes).

It wasn't Einstein who created the atomic bomb & it was Robert Openheimer who regretted it by uttering the famous words: (who himself has a very tense :mercury::square::saturn:aspect.)

As he witnessed the first detonation of a nuclear weapon on July 16, 1945, a piece of Hindu scripture ran through the mind of Robert Oppenheimer: “Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds”



Although he never worked directly on the atomic bomb, Einstein is often incorrectly associated with the advent of nuclear weapons. His famous equation E=mc2 explains the energy released in an atomic bomb but doesn't explain how to build one. He repeatedly reminded people, "I do not consider myself the father of the release of atomic energy. My part in it was quite indirect."



https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/peace-and-war/the-manhattan-project

It's well understood that his work lay the foundation. https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/einstein-regret-video
 

IleneK

Premium Member
David, Saturn represents things that cannot be gotten around. Old age. hardship, disappointment, fear....

Rather than hope the bad times won't happen, it's best to build one's character with Saturn's lessons.


Yes! When we align with our Saturn, no matter its condition or strength or connectedness with the rest of the chart, we are able to build our character and flourish.

And did I mention: it takes time/chronos.
icon7.gif
 

waybread

Well-known member
David, try thinking of Saturn as your wisest teacher.

Saturn-Mercury can have different manifestations. Saturn can be the careful, self-disciplined thinker. Physicists cannot do their work without a serious mastery of mathematics.

I just checked Albert Einstein's chart, and it's interesting that his close Mercury-Saturn conjunction in Aries makes no other major planetary aspects, expect for a wide out-of-sign conjunction to his sun. This gives Mercury-Saturn a lot of independence because they're not socialized into other planets' ways.They were also closely parallel, giving him a lot of mental focus. The independent streak is accentuated by his wildly out-of-bounds moon, at 26 degrees south.

Which is why we want to look at a lot more than a single planet or a simple conjunction.
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, try thinking of Saturn as your wisest teacher.

Saturn-Mercury can have different manifestations. Saturn can be the careful, self-disciplined thinker. Physicists cannot do their work without a serious mastery of mathematics.

I just checked Albert Einstein's chart, and it's interesting that his close Mercury-Saturn conjunction in Aries makes no other major planetary aspects, expect for a wide out-of-sign conjunction to his sun. This gives Mercury-Saturn a lot of independence because they're not socialized into other planets' ways.They were also closely parallel, giving him a lot of mental focus. The independent streak is accentuated by his wildly out-of-bounds moon, at 26 degrees south.

Which is why we want to look at a lot more than a single planet or a simple conjunction.


Saturn makes a good ally because it always tells the truth, no matter how grim. And like the rattlesnake, it gives fair warning before it strikes. :wink:

You say "closely parallel". Does it matter that they're contra-parallel in the case of being so close?
 

waybread

Well-known member
David, supposedly a parallel works like a conjunction, when you consider how the two planets would be situated in the sky. A contra-parallel, with both planets at the same degree but one north and one south, works like an opposition.

As to which one would be stronger, I think we have to look at the planets involved. A contra-parallel involving the moon and Venus, for example, would probably be less troublesome than one involving Saturn and Pluto.

Aa Dr. Farr mentioned, you can look up celebrity charts at Astrodienst on their Astro-DataBank, click on the small chart for an enlargement with an aspectarian, and then that second page allows you to add "additional tables" that give declination.

Saturn, as you know, was the traditional bringer of miserable things. Liz Greene cleared up a lot of that with her book Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil. Unfortunately the New Age, evolutionary, and theosophical astrologers dissed Saturn again, by seeing it as too limiting and material. The modern outers supposedly were terribly superior to Grandpa Saturn.

Which I think is ridiculous in its own way. Each planet has its themes, and each can have an empowering or disempowering expression.
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, supposedly a parallel works like a conjunction, when you consider how the two planets would be situated in the sky. A contra-parallel, with both planets at the same degree but one north and one south, works like an opposition.

As to which one would be stronger, I think we have to look at the planets involved. A contra-parallel involving the moon and Venus, for example, would probably be less troublesome than one involving Saturn and Pluto.

Aa Dr. Farr mentioned, you can look up celebrity charts at Astrodienst on their Astro-DataBank, click on the small chart for an enlargement with an aspectarian, and then that second page allows you to add "additional tables" that give declination.

Saturn, as you know, was the traditional bringer of miserable things. Liz Greene cleared up a lot of that with her book Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil. Unfortunately the New Age, evolutionary, and theosophical astrologers dissed Saturn again, by seeing it as too limiting and material. The modern outers supposedly were terribly superior to Grandpa Saturn.

Which I think is ridiculous in its own way. Each planet has its themes, and each can have an empowering or disempowering expression.


If I convert local time to GMT and account for the rate of change in declination for each placement, I can use the astrobank declination for any date. It's set for 0 hours GMT.

It would be nice if sites like Astrotheme would simply include declination as a matter of course, instead of being strictly longitudinal.

I have the impression that declination isn't being considered important enough by Mods. As for Trads, they keep their personal techniques pretty much to themselves, so I haven't seen whether they're considering declination in their readings, or how important it is to them.
 
Top