Saturn Sq Sun Leo in V

[Sebastien Cheritte]

Will anything else re-enforce the power of that placement negatively - any worse and I'll retire to the mountains and meditate my way to perfection.

Also, about Chiron. I have no speech impediments and nor do I stutter, in fact I speak 3 languages almost perfectly (Greek, English & Music)
I write with a thesaurus and often have my face in a dictionary for better or worse - My mother made it my habit - "Go look it up!" every 5 minutes.
Yes, I questioned EVERYTHING - she was a Gemini who better to question?
Wound heals in Gemini? How So?

It's possible that I am articulating a little too much if anything.
Always trying to accentuate the point I'm making - what's wrong with that? And/or points negatively at that in my chart?
If anything I try to correct people making those errors.
So Chiron in Gemini III must be referring to something else in communication, what could it be?

I swear like Mofo - could that be it? I wouldn't dare let Jedi Mind Tricks (the rap group) inspire/influence my professional presentations though, I do have a rather refined sense of decorum in the work-place. Of course that also makes it sound like I'm am executive, but no I'm jobless. Does make for a good read though. hahahah

Also, something else, should I interpret Venus in VI or VII?
In my own experience VI feels more right, but in the general interpretation I can't see why it's wrong. Use own discretion?

I like to get a lot done at one time, so I cram it all into one question, obviously this has no impact on people too tired to go through it all. Sorry.

 

[astrologer50]

My way of helping newcomers is for them to do more research and learning rather than just ‘drop the answer in your lap’ and not necessarily to provide professional readings and forecast future events. If you are truly interested in astrology, I and most others here will help you…..
Having a Sagittarius MC which is the sign of the teacher and I do indeed teach astrology. This forum is a wonderful community of all mixed levels and types of astrologers. So I may provide links to encourage you in the hope that if you are sincerely interested enough you will do the research and enlighten yourself….

Basically, this aspect suggest a lack of rapport with father, authority figures or male archetype

If you go to the main AW homepage, go down to bottom left and find the search box, put in any natal aspect, such as this Neptune square MC -- I am limited to quoting just 100words (forum rules) but you can click on link to read the rest

Saturn square sunclick on here to read the full article.
"The power of your solar energy is being held in check - almost imprisoned - by Saturn, until you succeed in 'learning certain lessons', 'recognising inner messages', and manage to transform those constraining attitudes that can cause the failure of your dreams through attracting obstacles along the path.

Part of this may have been influenced by your early childhood environment, where conflicts with parents (especially your father) or with authority figures have left you feeling defeated and psychologically wounded."

Your Saturn square mars - is doing ones duty in a cautious and constructive manny, but also stop/go situations and frustrations

You asked about chiron in gemini -- here's some research links for you

Chiron thread
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11976

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.moonsweb.com/ast/chiron.shtml
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/Chiron.htm
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/chiron21.5.html
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/chiron.html

Also, something else, should I interpret Venus in VI or VII?

anything within 5' of cusp going anti clockwise is considered to be more effective in next house along. So 7th house

Hope this helps

 

[R4VEN]

Also, about Chiron. I have no speech impediments and nor do I stutter, in fact I speak 3 languages almost perfectly (Greek, English & Music)
I write with a thesaurus and often have my face in a dictionary for better or worse - My mother made it my habit - "Go look it up!" every 5 minutes.
Yes, I questioned EVERYTHING - she was a Gemini who better to question?
Wound heals in Gemini? How So?

It's possible that I am articulating a little too much if anything.
Always trying to accentuate the point I'm making - what's wrong with that? And/or points negatively at that in my chart?
If anything I try to correct people making those errors.
So Chiron in Gemini III must be referring to something else in communication, what could it be?

I swear like Mofo - could that be it? I wouldn't dare let Jedi Mind Tricks (the rap group) inspire/influence my professional presentations though, I do have a rather refined sense of decorum in the work-place. Of course that also makes it sound like I'm am executive, but no I'm jobless. Does make for a good read though. hahahah

Sebastien, I am intrigued by what you say about your Chiron in Gemini in 3rd. On the surface it appears that you have no issue here - but you were born with it, so there is obviously something!!! I apologise in advance for any offence you may take, but there is certainly none intended. My intention is only ever to educate and/or to dig beneath the epidermis of the issue as it is being presented.

I have met many highly educated and qualified people who, despite their formal skills, are still very insecure/shamed/unsure about their intellect at a deeper place where it really matters!!! I once knew a guy who was an electronics engineer, plus he later gained qualifications in psychotherapy, and all he ever talked about was his intellect, his education, how well he had done at university, blah, blah, blah. He was a very skilled speaker and debater, but he also had Chiron in the 3rd house. His greatest fear/shame was that perhaps he had winged his way through school, uni, work, and someone somewhere was going to find this out and tell everyone about it!! He had no real reason for feeling this way, but it was there anyway.

I notice that you have sun in Leo in 5th, and Mercury in Leo in 6th. I also have Sun and Mercury in Leo, and I can tell myself BS until the sun sets. Leos are the actors of the zodiac. We do not wish to be seen as being less that `The best' at whatever we pursue. The first person we kid is always ourselves.

I am not saying this is what you are doing, but I have a vibe which says that this is possible.
It is also possible that sometime in the future you have to put-your-3rd-house-where-your-mouth-is and teach. I don't mean school, but I mean passing on information. This is a classic 3rd house Chiron pursuit, and one which is always challenging for those with this placement. In fact, it is by far the best way to approach working through your Chiron placement.

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

Hello R4VEN

I appreciate your time, your effort and your assistance!
Also your thorough analysis about Leo's able to BS themselves.
This is quite right on many occasions if I put my ego aside and really think about it. Well, I'll definitely look into it - right now.

I don't mean school, but I mean passing on information. This is a classic 3rd house Chiron pursuit, and one which is always challenging for those with this placement. In fact, it is by far the best way to approach working through your Chiron placement.

I think you suppose then that the challenge for me would be to pass on the information without committing/involving one or more of the negative traits found in the LeoSun/LeoMerc aspect which lead to Overkill/Dominance/Superiority & perhaps even Arrogance while communicating.

I have already a picture of what you are saying and I can see it happening (tragically) already.
Question here really quickly... Are any of Gemini's characteristics (whether as an agent or manifested in personality) driven by/toward patience & understanding?
If so... I see where you are going... My communication is bent on dominance and Like Frank mentioned in another thread to me (I play the Martyr when it doesn't pan out the way I expect it to)

In short: I have the communication tools - Correct? but I am using them in conjunction with LeoSun/LeoMerc negatively; spelling arrogance and Dominance over subject matter causing the Unnerving Sarlink Mentioned in a previous thread. WOW

I am watching this unfold as I digest it..and between Frank, Starlink & Your collective input I have seen that having the skills doesn't mean you know how to use them - this is shown by the afflictions specifically on Chiron.

Do I understand correctly that I may be able to communicate using the right tools, but I am at a loss for the pressure I apply to the tools, perhaps breaking the usefulness of the tools.

I know I speak often in Metaphor too, try to see that I am trying to understand as well...

Anyway..digest that.

Thank you Astrologer50, R4VEN and others for your magical touches.
I will uncover the truth. Somehow.

 

[astrologer50]

My next suggestion may be a little to advanced, but if you would post your natal chart with progressions, solar arcs that may give us a bigger better picture of how you have evolved as a person....

Basic astrology
Now basically your sun sign is your 'core beliefs, values, ego' and Asc is your physical body, mode of expression and mask and persona that we all wear and hide behind, but definitely not what's going on underneath. What's going on underneath is your Sun sign. Moon sign, house placements and aspects describe your emotional and intuitive responses, also describes your view of your mother, as saturn describes your father by sign and house position.

So, think of a glass milk bottle the bottle is your Asc and your sun the milk, but the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck of the milk bottle....

Now aspects within a natal chart represent 'facets' of our personality, because we are all multifaceted beings. What these do is 'break down and compartmentalise' these facets into smaller bite size chunks. This does take quite a lot of self analysis and objectivity to 'see yourself' and why you do certain things and behave in certain ways. Actually it can be quite good therapy...

Remember back to your school days an opposition is 180', square 90', trine 120', and sextile 60' Now challenged aspects are conj (depending on the planets, cos some like each other and some really don't) squares and oppositions. Easy aspects are conj (if the planets get along) eg: Jupiter conj Moon, sextile and trine. Quincunx is inbetween (depending on the planets) causes health strains and unresolved or hard to balance planets/energies.

Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars espec are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67
http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astroarticles/progressionsinastrology.php
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html
http://astrolmass.com/progressions.htm

The most important of progressed planets is of course, sun & moon and then upto mars, as the outer planets hardly move by progression. Now like with transits, solar arcs --- it's what these progressed planets are doing NOW by mathematical aspect to your natal planets and Angles that is ultimately important.

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

Well I hope the "arcs" you mentioned show up in this chart.
I have no idea really how that works out - or what that is.

 

[astrologer50]

You seem to have done something bit wrong here the green progressed planets are exactly same as natal and they shouldn't be, in Extended chart selection in the drop down box are options-- natal, progressions, solar arcs -- transits go on automatically

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

How about now?

 

[astrologer50]

sorry even worse, both progressed and solar arc are same as natal somehow. What I think is happening is in Extended chart selection you have at the top names of people's chart and maybe both charts are showing your name and it's creating a bi wheel using two natal charts for same person -- possibly

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

Okay, I think I got it.
right?

 

[astrologer50]

OK that's great -- so about 1.5 years ago your prog sun went into Virgo for it's next 30years stay. So do you find yourself being more analytical? having to pay more attention to details? do you think you have become a bit of perfectionist at all? Now your progressed sun has been in 6th house of Virgo for past 21years (Equal house system) but has just changed into Virgo. Do you recognise these qualities in yourself?

Also whilst this have been happening progressed mars is 1' off your natal sun to. with transits we use 1' approaching, 1' exact and 1' departing, so last 12months your sun will have been influenced and energised by mars quite possibly making your more wilful, dogmatic, Leonian even??

Next your prog Moon in pisces about 9months ago IF your time of birth is correct was conj your Asc suggesting a whole new cycle or start, you could have even relocated even? as this is same sign are natal moon have you felt yourself being more sensitive, psychic perhaps? do you think you (espec last 9months) you made more sacrifices for people around you?

It's very common for prog sun conj venus to start a relationship or marry even, or have children

1st week in march, T Jupiter will conj your Asc, this should be a time of opportunities, travel, socialising -- just watch you don't gain too much weight

Did you relocate age 18? Age 5 Solar arc Uranus conj MC any upheavals, disruptions, relocations with family? Age 9 relocate to bigger house, travel?
Hope this helps, even though your thread starter was Saturn squ Sun

 

[R4VEN]

Hi Sebastien,
By the post you wrote above, I feel that you `get' what I am attempting to convey. Your communication abilities are perhaps like giving a 6 yr old a Rolls Royce for his birthday - nice that he has such a car, but he is limited to sitting in the drivers' seat and going `broooom brooom!' (I also overuse metaphor.......often to the detriment of the communication)

You seem to have made some connections with what starlink and frank have suggested or pointed out, and I'd say that is a very good sign. Chiron work is often slow, can be very painful, but the good thing is you have your whole life in which to do it. An awareness helps, but I do not think it necessary to be fully aware of what is happening at every step of the way; sometimes things happen in circuitous, and even bewildering ways.

I'm not sure what you mean by the sentence which I've highlighted in bold. Do you mean does Gemini as an energy promote patience and understanding? If so, my answer would be `not necessarily - Gemini energy is impatient, and with it one tends to skim the surface of a lot of different subjects/ideas'. For you, the `patience and understanding' needs to come from your Pisces Ascendant.

And in response to the paragraph about `the tools' - I would say that you have not yet found your own appropriate tools. That is just my perception. You have a Chiron-Chiron square coming up in 2011 and 2012, so you may be `shown' some pathways during that time.

Again, I am using an analogy here -
Your communication style reminds me a little of an autobiography I read by Australian performer & satirist, Barry Humphries. (Despite communicating for a living, Humphries has Chiron in Taurus quite late in the 3rd house, squaring his Aquarius Sun. Whenever he is interviewed as himself - and he has created a number of `characters' through whom he speaks much more fluently - he speaks deliberately and carefully, almost as though he is expecting to be tripped up by the interviewer.) For me his autobiography was almost unreadable, but only because he chose to use masses of adjectives - 90% of which are not in everyday use - and I had to read it with a dictionary by my side. To me, this was overkill, poor communication, and did not achieve what a book should do - that is to communicate to a large number of potential readers. Had he left out the adjectives it was an enjoyable, and whimsical read. I feel that his intellect just needed to show off, and it didn't succeed all that well. (I also wonder what his editor was thinking in letting him get away with it!!)

The above is just an example of someone with all the skills, but doesn't always use them appropriately or wisely.

R

I have already a picture of what you are saying and I can see it happening (tragically) already.
Question here really quickly... Are any of Gemini's characteristics (whether as an agent or manifested in personality) driven by/toward patience & understanding?
If so... I see where you are going... My communication is bent on dominance and Like Frank mentioned in another thread to me (I play the Martyr when it doesn't pan out the way I expect it to)

In short: I have the communication tools - Correct? but I am using them in conjunction with LeoSun/LeoMerc negatively; spelling arrogance and Dominance over subject matter causing the Unnerving Sarlink Mentioned in a previous thread. WOW

I am watching this unfold as I digest it..and between Frank, Starlink & Your collective input I have seen that having the skills doesn't mean you know how to use them - this is shown by the afflictions specifically on Chiron.

Do I understand correctly that I may be able to communicate using the right tools, but I am at a loss for the pressure I apply to the tools, perhaps breaking the usefulness of the tools.

I know I speak often in Metaphor too, try to see that I am trying to understand as well...

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

Your communication abilities are perhaps like giving a 6 yr old a Rolls Royce for his birthday - nice that he has such a car, but he is limited to sitting in the drivers' seat and going `broooom brooom!' (I also overuse metaphor.......often to the detriment of the communication)

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH, brilliant, Very good, I love your Metaphor!

For you, the `patience and understanding' needs to come from your Pisces Ascendant.

Are you saying that Pisces Asc shows lack of patience?
I thought it was a Leo thing - I have a few friends with the same issue.
(They're share the Leo sign of course)

Your communication style reminds me a little of an autobiography I read by Australian performer & satirist, Barry Humphries. (Despite communicating for a living, Humphries has Chiron in Taurus quite late in the 3rd house, squaring his Aquarius Sun. Whenever he is interviewed as himself - and he has created a number of `characters' through whom he speaks much more fluently - he speaks deliberately and carefully, almost as though he is expecting to be tripped up by the interviewer.) For me his autobiography was almost unreadable, but only because he chose to use masses of adjectives - 90% of which are not in everyday use - and I had to read it with a dictionary by my side. To me, this was overkill, poor communication, and did not achieve what a book should do - that is to communicate to a large number of potential readers. Had he left out the adjectives it was an enjoyable, and whimsical read. I feel that his intellect just needed to show off, and it didn't succeed all that well. (I also wonder what his editor was thinking in letting him get away with it!!)

Anyway, Thanks for the compliment/insult - I know it's coming from a place that wishes to help me so I'm willing to 'enjoy it' just as much as I'm willing to 'let it slide.'
Though you are right doesn't mean I like it, no need to add more pressure to this thread. I'll work on it.

Sincerity's the Smith, Will the Craft & Patience is key.

Thank you R4VEN for your assistance
When I've become wiser on the subject I'll look you up for better or worse.

 

[Sebastien Cheritte]

so about 1.5 years ago your prog sun went into Virgo for it's next 30years stay. So do you find yourself being more analytical? having to pay more attention to details? do you think you have become a bit of perfectionist at all?

Hell Yes, that's exactly right!
Been finding numerous faults with my past, want to definitely "free the angel from the stone" as Da Vinci put it (Strengthen my weaknesses and Smooth out my Strengths.

Listening more, trying to develop a genuine understanding for the people around me. (This is why I'm probably making such an effort for self-improvement) Analytical to the point that I have seen most of the faults in relationships of mine (no matter how significant/insignificant) as 'my faults', though its' extreme, I'll take the responsibility.

a Perfectionist I have always been - no failure there; Although I can see where it works for me Musically, I can also where it tends to be over-done
and under-appreciated as well.

Now your progressed sun has been in 6th house of Virgo for past 21years (Equal house system) but has just changed into Virgo. Do you recognise these qualities in yourself?

Well if you're asking if I see Virgo qualities in myself, I can't say I do.
But I've managed to somehow 'attract' a lot of Virgo's the past year or so in my life which I've come to appreciate the qualities 'of' if that's any good.
Somehow I feel baron next to them. They work hard, They are quiet when it's not necessary to speak, they have an energy that is accepted by all in their company (neutral energy if you like), people like them more than they like me, it's sure. I suppose I might want to work on being more like them... does that make any sense?

Also whilst this have been happening progressed mars is 1' off your natal sun to. with transits we use 1' approaching, 1' exact and 1' departing, so last 12months your sun will have been influenced and energised by mars quite possibly making your more wilful, dogmatic, Leonian even??

Aha, Sh*t, I don't know. I've been more productive and energetic in the Music department, I've been quite forceful about certain things infact I lost my job because of it - but partly also cause I was standing up for someone else (Virgo). I've been fixing old tracks that I had previously abandoned in hopes that I can make them shine again. In company I've become more shy actually - so 'Leonian' I wouldn't say really, what are the good qualities of Leo besides showing everyone else "how it is" or "what it is to be" or "How I've come to make or create" I, I, I, I, sure - I've always been that way. It hasn't done me an ounce of good.
Dogmatic, I am very Dogmatic (not for year either.) Couldn't that just be part of my make-up?

Next your prog Moon in pisces about 9months ago IF your time of birth is correct was conj your Asc suggesting a whole new cycle or start, you could have even relocated even? as this is same sign are natal moon have you felt yourself being more sensitive, psychic perhaps? do you think you (espec last 9months) you made more sacrifices for people around you?

Let me give you a more precise picture of things. I Made a really BIG move in 2007 (Year of the Pig, on April 13) The Move literally changed my life, my style, my sense of humor, my ability to relate - though strengthened my interest in self. Put me in Absolute Solus where I was forced to look at my strengths and weaknesses with a magnifying glass - hated what/who I was. Intended to change.
Depression opened some channels, to my detriment as well as to my advantage. (Detriment - Last January I put myself in Hospital from explosive never-been-done-before kind of abuse) - System Shock.

After that I began to take things more seriously. Meditation, Zen, Tarot - Anything Underground or taboo as well. My Moto was - "Learn ANYTHING"

It's very common for prog sun conj venus to start a relationship or marry even, or have children

No Children. My girlfriend is far too involved with her career.
And I'm far too involved with self-discovery.

1st week in march, T Jupiter will conj your Asc, this should be a time of opportunities, travel, socialising -- just watch you don't gain too much weight

I could use the excess weight - thank you very much. Noted.
I've just signed up for a Russian Language class. I guess I'll be socializing with my new K.G.B (Russian Mob) friends. hahahaha

Did you relocate age 18? Age 5 Solar arc Uranus conj MC any upheavals, disruptions, relocation with family? Age 9 relocate to bigger house, travel?
Hope this helps, even though your thread starter was Saturn squ Sun

Obviously the rest is for me to ponder, but to quickly answer these last questions here. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Let it be known then to all who might find some kind of strange interest in this thread that the '50' behind Astrologer50 is not for 50/100
and the 4 in R4VEN is not for 4/10

Thank you both, may your energies invested here be returned to you 7 fold in when you least expect them.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Peace & Love
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