Saturn Conjunct Pluto in the 12th house


Account Closed
Yes asc is Libra and similar to your first example. Will I send you it privately? I don’t mind continuing the discussion public but not to share the chart.

Yes please do. It would be interesting for me to look at. I can be more "honest" privately than publicly. And it will be 100% private regardless of who this person is to you.


Well-known member
I don't understand some of the people in this thread. They keep crying, "but but but we need a full chart to explain it!!" This is dumb because there is tons of stuff out there that deal with a planet aspecting another planet, "what does it mean when your Sun sextiles your mars" or "how to interpret Pluto trine Moon" and none of them demands that people post a full chart. Sure maybe the stuff they talk about is not as detailed as it could be, but this is fine because this is what the original poster wanted. He/she just wanted some general info on this particular aspect, nothing too in-depth. So why can't you just oblige?
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Account Closed
Well both approaches are rational. The thing is we have astrologers of various levels on this forum, some are more thorough than others. The more advanced astrologers have their own, practiced methodology to readings, and prefer using their personal methodology. Its just what they are used to. That requires looking at the whole chart, as they will rank strength and gauge effects depending on detailed aspects. Students of other levels can contribute using personal experience, their memory of celebrity charts, or intuitive interpretation - on just the aspect asked for. So all levels essentially adds to the knowledge and not one approach is necessarily "correct" or "incorrect".
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Well-known member
Wan, what is your problem? Nobody has been crying over this thread as far as I can make out. Misrepresenting people's responses and using words like 'dumb' gives the impression that you aren't putting forward a considered viewpoint, but rather that something has pushed a button for you. Since there is so much stuff out there about isolated placements, its better that a forum like this focuses on chart synthesis and discussing how the native brings the chart to life.


Well-known member
Wan, what is your problem?
Did you not see Greybeard's response? He said, "who are you trying to kid", which was wholly unnecessary and a form of aggression, to boot. You seriously don't find anything wrong with this statement? The rest of his post was problematic, too. He put sneer quotes around "happen". To me, he seemed to be implying that the OP was lying about knowing people with this particular placement. This is another thing that bothered me.

Nobody has been crying over this thread as far as I can make out.

I don't mean that people are literally crying. I was just trying to convey that I disapprove of what they are doing in this thread. Figure of speech, let's put it that way.

Misrepresenting people's responses

I have not misrepresented anything. If your issue is with the fact I used the word "cry", then pick better battles.

Truth is, some people in this thread are just being ridiculous. The guy asked a very straightforward question. He simply wanted to know what this particular aspect meant. He did not ask to have it interpreted in the hope of delineating a whole chart.

and using words like 'dumb' gives the impression that you aren't putting forward a considered viewpoint,

Of course I am not putting forward a viewpoint. I just wanted to share my impression and opinion of some of the people in this thread. Surely this is allowed on this board?

but rather that something has pushed a button for you.

You sound like you are trying to psychoanalyze me. Is this true?

Since there is so much stuff out there about isolated placements, its better that a forum like this focuses on chart synthesis and discussing how the native brings the chart to life.

This is one way of looking at it. Anyway, I am not saying that people shouldn't take the chart as a whole. I guess my main issue is with greybeard's highly inflammatory question, "who are you trying to kid?" To me this is aggression on his part.

Also, the OP asked a very specific question. He wanted to know what Saturn conjunct Pluto meant. If people cannot answer this question, then they should refrain from responding, because they would have nothing to contribute. They should just keep their mouth shut, and their, "we neeeeeeed the whole chart in order to interpret it" to themselves.
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Well-known member
Hi. Yes, I do know what a figure of speech is, and no I don't have any desire to psychoanalyse you.

I just went back and read Greybeard's comment. Yes, it is disparaging, but it was addressed to someone else in 2014.

I think that generally speaking it's better to start new threads rather than resurrect very old ones, and on that note I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread now.

Best wishes



Well-known member
I have Venus trine Jupiter in my chart, orb 40 minutes of arc. According to most any textbook I should be in tall clover. But not so.

Reason: The house positions and general condition of both planets, as well as the tone of the chart taken as a whole.

The trine does bring its benefits, but on an entirely different level from anything found in a textbook and unrecognizable.

This is why folks insist on seeing the specific chart.
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That's an interesting "General Question".

Unless you know someone born in 1983 (Libra), 1947 (Leo) or 1915 (Cancer). One in twelve of people born during those years had that placement. Otherwise, it applies to no one and you'll never see a chart with that configuration.

So the odds are really against your running into the position in any chart. It's a very very uncommon placement.

Unless, of course, you just "happen" to be acquainted with a person having that placement.

" it is more a question as to what this generally means as a whole for people's charts." Who are you trying to kid?

Any placement in any chart must be interpreted in the context of the chart taken as a whole. Out of context the symbols of astrology can take on so many forms (Robert Hand aptly uses the term "polymorphism") that any "general" interpretation must necessarily be meaningless in regard to some specific individual.

Here's what you do... Look up the meanings for:
1. Saturn conjunct Pluto
2. Saturn in Libra*
3. Pluto in Libra*
4. Saturn in the 12th House
5. Pluto in the 12th House...

Then synthesize these "meanings" into a statement about the person.

Of course you are lacking some information, such as:
Is the conjunction in direct or retrograde motion?
What is the condition of the sign ruler, Venus?
What aspects does the conjunction behold?
Which of the two planets is posited earlier in the zodiac? [Is Saturn applying to Pluto or separating from him?]
Is the conjunction close by the 12th or 1st cusps, or deeply embedded in the 12th?
What is the general tone of the horoscope in question?
And so forth.

*It may be that your interest is directed more toward one in twelve of those folks yet to be born with the conjunction in Capricorn (2020).

Greybeard I log on just to read your replies. 😍

Just wondering what this placement does for Aquarius suns.
Atm Oct 2019’are we experiencing a ground square with sun opposing Uranus and full moon in Aries opposing Saturn Pluto conjunction in Cap.

Is nn in cancer still? Nn and Uranus in 4th feels kinda like standing on a snow capped mountain on fire.

I love it

Sorry for the confusing psycho babble but hopefully you’ll get my drift,



New member

I have this conjunct in my natal chart, saturno retrograde conjunct pluto retrograde in libra, scorpio ascendant, saturn and pluto in trine with venus in gemini in house 8.

I have been studying spiritual matters since 5 - 6 years old.

My opinión about this conjunct is that is amazing, in one hand all my life I have been responsible for others, more in the emotional part than material part, even though, i donte remeber one day that I haven´t in service to the world, I mean, all time I have been listening the problems of people, and not easy problems, no problems related with "my boyfriend is gone", " i don´t have enought money", no, problems about "my child died", "my father and my uncle raped on me 7 times, and I want to die", just to give some examples.

Then I have been in service not because I feel this is my obligation, is because I see the world, I see the human being sinking, dying for real pain, and it´s impossible for me to ignore them.
I got a lot of knowledge from that people, information that it's incredible useful for myself, but I thing the cost is to high, because in the other hand, It's horrible because I dont find someone that can hear me since I was a little girl, I had to build myself, for example,

When I was 5 years old and my father left us, my mother worked all the time, my grandmother who took care of us, my brother and me, beat us, he did not defend himself, I defended him even though he was 6 years younger than me, but then my grandmother ran me from the house, and I had to sleep on the street, and the next day I went to school (all this at least 4 o 5 days by week), still, I always had school recognitions, the responsibility was tattooed on my skin, and right now I write, because Now , in this time, when the conjunction is forming again, I still hold a lot of people around me, but at times I feel like I'm dying, and I need to talk, but as always, there is no one to listen to me ... that's why I wrote this ... and no It matters if someone reads it, I just needed to get it out of me, today, at least today, I needed a break, and then I´ll continue ...

I think that conjunction makes you understand something very clearly, to live here, it is a brutal school, to get out of here in a triumphant way, it is only possible when you have given it absolutely everything from you, or to say it in another way, this conjunction starts your fear to die, because you fully understand that death is actually the rest you have always sought, but dying is something we will do, but a good one is something that must also be won.

Then I understood that every day of my existence I have not worked to learn to live, or have a good life, I have worked to learn to die, and die in an honorable way for me. Where I can see myself to the face and be at peace with me, because I never gave up despite the world, despite my fears, despite all the pains in the world. And despite all this, I believe in humanity ... because I know their heart, I know mine.
I don't speak English in my mother tongue, excuse me if I can't express my ideas very well.


Yes, Flapjack makes a really important point that regardless of which house Saturn is placed in, this planet brings to our attention the authority of the state, which comes with its own set of values - a kind of collective ego. Some with Saturn Pluto aspects (especially hard major aspects) may side with the status quo and try to quash anything which threatens it (often becoming savagely Plutonian in the process, despite their valuing of proper conduct); while some side with the Plutonian passions lurking within collective consciousness and go all out to challenge the status quo and the authority which seeks to preserve it (often becoming very rigid and controlling in the way they go about it). Both planets work together - if the native disowns one, it will still make its presence felt as the owned planet is expressed.

When the aspect is wide, the connection is less compelling. Where it is a soft aspect, the tension may not be so great. Progression of one planet to the natal position of the other is not very relevant because it is so slow with these planets. But solar arc directions, at around one degree of arc per year, could be significant; for example, if the orb is 5 degrees, then one planet will reach the other by solar arc around age 5 years. Transits can be very significant if the orb is wide at birth, especially if it is transiting Pluto that conjuncts natal Saturn after birth, rather than the other way around.

Greybeard reminds us that retrogradation may be signficant. When these planets are around a conjunction with one another, Saturn is retrograde for most of the time that Pluto is retrograde. And of course a particular sign is emphasised, which says a lot about what types of social values are under the intense spotlight of this transiting conjunction. The house placement of the conjunction in a natal chart, and also aspects to more personal planets, shows how the changes - or the frustration of the need for change will affect the native on a personal level, and how the native may play a part in bringing the changes about. A native who has Mercury aspecting the conjunction may study social taboos and write about them in a way which helps to provoke change, and perhaps to establish a new order to some extent. Venus may challenge people's notions of relationships. And so on. Because of course after the initial hit of the transit itself, which makes its presence felt according to the aspects it makes to the natal charts of individuals, nation states, etc., the entities born under the transit grow up and continue the process of restructuring.

However Pluto was in its last legs in Libra during 82/83

So that 29 degree bridging into the Scorpio is very different to your early and mid degrees of placement.

I was born on the precipice of Scorpio Pluto and I’m definitely more fixed and here/now with regard to how I tackle collective issues.
That axis with Aries/Taurus cusp gives me tremendous strike power and zero fks when confronted.

I have the Saturn Pluto conjunction with a wider than acceptable orb however it’s in my 12thso it’s felt on all levels.

I’m a mental health Nurse and it really helps me connect with almost any soul I meet.