Sabian Symbols and Stories

piercethevale

Well-known member
Another example I can immediately relate to is the symbolism from that chart I assert is the actual natal of a Nazarene from 2000 years ago as it is the 1st degree of Cancer that comes up as the M.C.

...as Dane Rudhyar put it {Cancer 1*}
"ON A SHIP THE SAILORS LOWER AN OLD FLAG AND RAISE A NEW ONE.
KEYNOTE: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return."

So as to the Bi Quintile points in aspect those would be at the 24th degree of Scorpio and the 7th degree of Aquarius.
Interestingly, the 7th degree of Aquarius happens to be the position of the True So. Node of the Moon in the natal chart of the U.S.A. [zero hour chart, aka 12:00:01 a.m July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Penn. chart] it's also my natal So. Node it was Elsie Wheelers M.C., [not to mention it's prominence in a number of natal charts of people that are close to me.] it is also Mitt Romney's Part of Fortune ...it is also Pres. Obama's Part of Change [Asc. + :uranus: - :pluto:] and his Part of Secret Enemies [Asc. + C12th - R12th]... that symbol being, by Rudhyar's discernment to be [ibid.]; "A CHILD IS SEEN BEING BORN OUT OF AN EGG.
KEYNOTE: The emergence of new mutations according to the great rhythms of the cosmos.
The ancient symbolism of the Cosmic Egg (Hiranyagharba in Sanskrit) out of which a new universe is born can be interpreted at several levels. Here we see the appearance of a new type of human being who is not born from 'Ancestors' and who therefore is free from the inertia of mankind's past. He is a new product of evolution, a mutant. He constitutes a fresh projection of the creative Spirit that emanates from the cosmic or planetary Whole, and not from any local culture and racial tradition.
This second stage symbol is in contrast with the preceding one. It can be said to announce the EMERGENCE OF GLOBAL MAN for the New Age. The power of the whole is focused within him in perfect freedom from ancient standards of value based on local conditions."

Now is this to be taken as to mean that He was to try to bring that new 'Flag', icon or archetype into manifestation so as to best integrate, introduce into Human Society this Icon for the best means at benefitting the collective needs in the best manner for some newly emerging "Global World Man"... as like that of a 'New World Order'?

Or is by after manifesting that symbolized by Sabian for the 24th of Scorpio, given by Rudhyar to mean [ibid.] "AFTER HAVING HEARD AN INSPIRED INDIVIDUAL DELIVER HIS "SERMON ON THE MOUNT," CROWDS ARE RETURNING HOME.
KEYNOTE: The need to incorporate inspiring experiences and teachings into everyday living.
Today we hear a great deal about 'peak experiences' (Maslow). The great problem facing everyone who has had such experiences is how to assimilate what has been felt, seen or heard, and how to let it transform his everyday consciousness and behavior. If this is not done the experience may turn confusing or toxic and perhaps destructive of the integrity of the person.
This fourth symbol as usual suggests to us what has to be done or how to do it. The 'return home' from the high mountain, or from any 'upper chamber' of the consciousness, may lead to a sense of oppression by the normal realities of existence, or else the soul that has been illuminated may retain enough of that light to transfigure every daily situation. This is the great CHALLENGE TO TRANSFORMATION."... to find the way in which to show the world how to introduce that, integrate and apply that 'Sermon' into their lives?

Imho... I think it is very obvious as to which.
But, I might be pre-disposed toward thinking in that way as it seems to me I have some recollection of some speech, or sermon, on a mountain some where by the legend or myth ...given by the man from Naz. himself.
 

sdh3

Well-known member
@ PtV,

lots of good stuff in your last few posts. I'm quite busy with school at the moment but hope to reply in-depth within the next day or so.

Thanks as always for the insights you shared.

truly,
sdh3
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I'm rather displeased with myself today. I spent a good 12 hours researching and writing a long article on the series of retrogrades between tomorrow and the middle of next April and it somehow disappeared within my files or ...? ...
It involves many of the same degrees of the Zodiac that the 2000 year old natal{?} chart has prominent. Including Saturn going retrograde on next March 2nd in that very 24th degree of Scorpio... followed by Venus making it's 'Final Return' to the 29th of Capricorn from whence it went [or will] retrograde on Dec. 21st, next month.

...and Pluto going retro on April 14th... with that Grand Cross of Mars/Uranus-Jupiter/Pluto in the sky on the 22nd-23rd the following week...

It is notable period starting just before Xmas this year and lasting until Easter...enough to make a Gnostic kinda Christian that believes in the portent of the stars to lie awake nights ...with one eye open. ...ifyaknowaddimean?
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Ahh, ptv, gripping that pillow tight?.... *everything happens for a reason* maybe for whatever reason that analysis needed to be held off for a while... Can't help but find it disheartening that the LAX shooting took place yesterday, the day following the second ura/ usa part of transformation conjunction... another assault rifle loaded off into the public GO FIGURE

I've been thinking about both your and sdh3's post regarding the star points.... well, i have to do some more thinking on it.... maybe i'm wrong in seeing it much more circular.... really have to take a closer look at His chart to come to a better conclusion..
 

sdh3

Well-known member
Ok, I'm still pretty busy with school-related work but here's my thinking now. In short, the star is kind of unique, at least as it pertains to how it is traced. When drawn by hand--at least when done with the right hand instead of the left--you are actually tracing out a sequence of 5 bi-quintiles in reverse order of their appearance. Doing so takes you through the symbols in the certain kind of numerical order a few of us described earlier, i.e. 1,2,3,4 and then 5.

Specifically, if Aries 1 (=1), Scorpio 7 (7-5=2), Gemini 13 (13-10=3), Capricorn 19 (19-15 =4), Leo 25 (25-20=5).

The number of degrees separating each of these symbols is 216 going forward through the zodiac (Aries to Pisces) or just 144 degrees (a bi-quintile) when going through the signs in reverse (retrograde). Five of these 144-degree steps or arcs connect the five points of a pentagram--each one separated by 72 degrees. They also, as we know bring the hand back to the starting point, but from another direction.

There may be many names for or better descriptions of what I've just related. I'm not sure, however, if there are names for what I've found in my study of the Sabians, five-pointed stars, and story structure. But here's what I thin I can say with high certainty...what we see in the previous posts in the thread is that that at least one and maybe all five of the bi-quintile arcs can be used to tell a story. Specifically, the Sabians show that two symbols placed 144 degrees away from one another (either forward or backward) have a special relationship--one just as unique as opposition, trine, square, and sextile.

Because that relationship is so unmistakably present in story structure, then any of the following terms seem apt in describing it--narrative arc or dramatic tension. Taken together, the journey through the five narrative arcs tells what Joseph Campbell and others have termed the Hero's Journey.

This last one is important because it was only recently that I discovered that Marc Jones--the co-originator of the Sabians--used the word
"Talent" to describe the quintile aspect.

One thought that comes to mind is that "talent" latent in the quintile is achieved and through a journey of self-discovery and overcoming challenges along the five narrative arcs--arcs that bring him back home along a different route than the one on which he departed, a route which hopefully makes him a better--or at least more knowledgeable--human being than when he left. Better or at least different than if that set of experiences and challenges hadn't been undergone.

Though I could say more, I'll stop here hoping I haven't completely muddied the water and embarrassed myself. Also hoping, of course, that if it does make some sense, you all can provide some constructive feedback.

If you made it this far then I'm...

truly thankful,
sdh3

So, if that being the case...then for every symbol.... every picture that tells a story... there are really only two ways of telling it... when you boil it all down...
imho... of course!
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Sdh3, i like where you are going with that.

you know, ptv taught me something about the zodiac that resonates with me, that the forward way through the zodiac is a mundane progression, and the reverse way, starting at vrigo 30, is the spiritual progression.

it might be that the stars have a spiritual and mundane path depending on direction, and it also might relate to something you mentioned about one of the movies. you mentioned that a certian symbol was depicted in its negative represrntation.

I have found quite a few symbols in the movies that i was looking at that represent the "anti" symbol ( very specificallyin donnie darko there was "a teacher instructing his disciple" and it fit so well with the movie because david hasslehoff played a charismatic instructor that was giving a speech and donnie stood up and called him the anti- christ...hopefully you can see where i am going with this)

So i wonder if the direction of the quintile has an effect on its apllication. it would certainly be an interesting endeavor to pursue through use of movies.

it would also be interesting to try and find the set of symbols that would depict " the typical heros journey"

Some elements of the typical heroes journey off the top of my head: A young boy who gets swept into a karmic endeavor and finds he has to save the world, meets a teacher who trains him but ends up dying/ leaving because the young boy has to learn to face things on his own.. a woman who he has to save...etc... i will have to research it and look through the symbols some time when i get a chance...
 

sdh3

Well-known member
Phoenix Venus, the first I heard of this idea of spiritual and meminiundane progression was in Alice Bailey's Esoteric Astrology that was published in 1950.

As soon as the semester is over I'm definitely going to spend more time thinking about this matter. On a related note, I think that the number of the symbol what one begins and ends is also important.

For example, the trailer for a new movie called "Tracks" certainly seems to be built upon the first star, but with an obvious emphasis on the 5th symbol in the set, i.e. Leo 25

Aries 1 A woman rises out of the water, a seal rises and embraces her.
Scorpio 7 Deep-sea divers.
Gemini 13 A great musician at his piano.
Capric 19 A child of about five with a huge shopping bag.
Leo 25 A large camel crossing the desert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-DiOyxCQQI

thoughtfully
sdh3




Sdh3, i like where you are going with that.

you know, ptv taught me something about the zodiac that resonates with me, that the forward way through the zodiac is a mundane progression, and the reverse way, starting at vrigo 30, is the spiritual progression.

it might be that the stars have a spiritual and mundane path depending on direction, and it also might relate to something you mentioned about one of the movies. you mentioned that a certian symbol was depicted in its negative represrntation.

I have found quite a few symbols in the movies that i was looking at that represent the "anti" symbol ( very specificallyin donnie darko there was "a teacher instructing his disciple" and it fit so well with the movie because david hasslehoff played a charismatic instructor that was giving a speech and donnie stood up and called him the anti- christ...hopefully you can see where i am going with this)

So i wonder if the direction of the quintile has an effect on its apllication. it would certainly be an interesting endeavor to pursue through use of movies.

it would also be interesting to try and find the set of symbols that would depict " the typical heros journey"

Some elements of the typical heroes journey off the top of my head: A young boy who gets swept into a karmic endeavor and finds he has to save the world, meets a teacher who trains him but ends up dying/ leaving because the young boy has to learn to face things on his own.. a woman who he has to save...etc... i will have to research it and look through the symbols some time when i get a chance...
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Great thread, sdh3, I haven't caught up with all the information yet...and need to re-read some of it...but great subject and information being shared here.
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
I was watching an interesting Kevin Spacey movie last night called K-Pax. It was about an alien who came to visit Earth. He was put in a mental ward and he helped some of the other patients. One of the patients had obsessive compulsive disorder, and the alien gave the guy three steps to cure himself of the disease.

1. Find the bluebird of happiness.
2. Help someone else find their bluebird.
3. Stay "here" (earth, home) and expect the unexpected.

I've been seeing this symbol for sag 24 a bit lately and the first step immediately made me think of that symbol.

So.... what about the other symbols in the star with sag 24? Could any of those symbols relate to the steps given in the movie? I think the symbols for pisces 6 and taurus 18 make perfect sense in this context.

Here are the symbols, taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala"

Sag 24:

"A BLUEBIRD PERCHED ON THE GATE OF A COTTAGE.
KEYNOTE: The reward which meets every effort at integrating into a social environment for those who remain true to their own selves.

The bluebird is a symbol of happiness, but also it refers to what one might call a spiritually oriented mind - to which the color blue relates, especially when a 'bird' is mentioned. A cottage is normally a part of a community, and the implication is that its inhabitant are well-adapted, either to the life of the community, or to their’ more or less isolated togetherness.
This is a fourth stage symbol, and it suggests that the essential technique for successful living is the development of a consciousness in which peace and happiness dwell. There is also a hint that GOOD FORTUNE is going to bless your life."


Pisces 06:

"A PARADE OF ARMY OFFICERS IN FULL DRESS.
KEYNOTE: The dedication of human beings to the service of their community, and the assurance that it will be emotionally sustained by the people at large.

Here we see at work the emotion-rousing appeal of social activities which demand the surrendering by the individual of his personal way of life, his opinions and his comfort. The socializing process is pictured in all its intensity but what is implied even more is the support that the socialized person can expect from the collectivity if he is ready to act and to sacrifice himself for the nation or the group.
This is the first symbol of the sixty-eighth series. It allegorizes the power generated by a totally accepted and enforced collective discipline, and the exaltation and mass response which he who has achieved this self-surrender to a social tradition can expect in return.
The Keyword is GROUP-RESPONSIBILITY. "


Taurus 18:

"A WOMAN AIRING AN OLD BAG THROUGH THE OPEN WINDOW OF HER ROOM.
KEYNOTE: The cleansing of the ego-consciousness.

In this third stage of the present sequence the first two stages should be considered background. The traditional teachings concerning man's nature are somehow reconciled with the youthful enthusiasm that sees in every problem of growth an issue between the "good" and the "bad." The symbol suggests that the real enemy is within the mind; it is the ego and its attachment to possessions. The mind is shown in the likeness of a "bag," now empty and needing to be aired in the sunlight. But the "window" must first be opened and the bag emptied. The phrase "cleansing the doors of perception" has become well known of late. But even more to be cleansed is the container of perceptual images — i.e. the ego mind. The Keyword is PURIFICATION."
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I was watching an interesting Kevin Spacey movie last night called K-Pax. It was about an alien who came to visit Earth. He was put in a mental ward and he helped some of the other patients. One of the patients had obsessive compulsive disorder, and the alien gave the guy three steps to cure himself of the disease.

1. Find the bluebird of happiness.
2. Help someone else find their bluebird.
3. Stay "here" (earth, home) and expect the unexpected.

I've been seeing this symbol for sag 24 a bit lately and the first step immediately made me think of that symbol.

So.... what about the other symbols in the star with sag 24? Could any of those symbols relate to the steps given in the movie? I think the symbols for pisces 6 and taurus 18 make perfect sense in this context.

Here are the symbols, taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala"

Sag 24:

"A BLUEBIRD PERCHED ON THE GATE OF A COTTAGE.
KEYNOTE: The reward which meets every effort at integrating into a social environment for those who remain true to their own selves.

The bluebird is a symbol of happiness, but also it refers to what one might call a spiritually oriented mind - to which the color blue relates, especially when a 'bird' is mentioned. A cottage is normally a part of a community, and the implication is that its inhabitant are well-adapted, either to the life of the community, or to their’ more or less isolated togetherness.
This is a fourth stage symbol, and it suggests that the essential technique for successful living is the development of a consciousness in which peace and happiness dwell. There is also a hint that GOOD FORTUNE is going to bless your life."


Pisces 06:

"A PARADE OF ARMY OFFICERS IN FULL DRESS.
KEYNOTE: The dedication of human beings to the service of their community, and the assurance that it will be emotionally sustained by the people at large.

Here we see at work the emotion-rousing appeal of social activities which demand the surrendering by the individual of his personal way of life, his opinions and his comfort. The socializing process is pictured in all its intensity but what is implied even more is the support that the socialized person can expect from the collectivity if he is ready to act and to sacrifice himself for the nation or the group.
This is the first symbol of the sixty-eighth series. It allegorizes the power generated by a totally accepted and enforced collective discipline, and the exaltation and mass response which he who has achieved this self-surrender to a social tradition can expect in return.
The Keyword is GROUP-RESPONSIBILITY. "


Taurus 18:

"A WOMAN AIRING AN OLD BAG THROUGH THE OPEN WINDOW OF HER ROOM.
KEYNOTE: The cleansing of the ego-consciousness.

In this third stage of the present sequence the first two stages should be considered background. The traditional teachings concerning man's nature are somehow reconciled with the youthful enthusiasm that sees in every problem of growth an issue between the "good" and the "bad." The symbol suggests that the real enemy is within the mind; it is the ego and its attachment to possessions. The mind is shown in the likeness of a "bag," now empty and needing to be aired in the sunlight. But the "window" must first be opened and the bag emptied. The phrase "cleansing the doors of perception" has become well known of late. But even more to be cleansed is the container of perceptual images — i.e. the ego mind. The Keyword is PURIFICATION."

Love that movie...and didn't you find it interesting, and ironic, that Jeff Bridges had played the title role in "Starman"?

The 24th of Sag. my Part of Intelligence/Skill and the 18th of Taurus my Desc.!
...and my Hermetic Lot of Victory just a few minutes of a degree in the 8th of Pisces... nearly right on the cusp to the 7th...
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I was watching an interesting Kevin Spacey movie last night called K-Pax. It was about an alien who came to visit Earth. He was put in a mental ward and he helped some of the other patients. One of the patients had obsessive compulsive disorder, and the alien gave the guy three steps to cure himself of the disease.

1. Find the bluebird of happiness.
2. Help someone else find their bluebird.
3. Stay "here" (earth, home) and expect the unexpected.

I've been seeing this symbol for sag 24 a bit lately and the first step immediately made me think of that symbol.

So.... what about the other symbols in the star with sag 24? Could any of those symbols relate to the steps given in the movie? I think the symbols for pisces 6 and taurus 18 make perfect sense in this context.

Here are the symbols, taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala"

Sag 24:

"A BLUEBIRD PERCHED ON THE GATE OF A COTTAGE.
KEYNOTE: The reward which meets every effort at integrating into a social environment for those who remain true to their own selves.

The bluebird is a symbol of happiness, but also it refers to what one might call a spiritually oriented mind - to which the color blue relates, especially when a 'bird' is mentioned. A cottage is normally a part of a community, and the implication is that its inhabitant are well-adapted, either to the life of the community, or to their’ more or less isolated togetherness.
This is a fourth stage symbol, and it suggests that the essential technique for successful living is the development of a consciousness in which peace and happiness dwell. There is also a hint that GOOD FORTUNE is going to bless your life."


Pisces 06:

"A PARADE OF ARMY OFFICERS IN FULL DRESS.
KEYNOTE: The dedication of human beings to the service of their community, and the assurance that it will be emotionally sustained by the people at large.

Here we see at work the emotion-rousing appeal of social activities which demand the surrendering by the individual of his personal way of life, his opinions and his comfort. The socializing process is pictured in all its intensity but what is implied even more is the support that the socialized person can expect from the collectivity if he is ready to act and to sacrifice himself for the nation or the group.
This is the first symbol of the sixty-eighth series. It allegorizes the power generated by a totally accepted and enforced collective discipline, and the exaltation and mass response which he who has achieved this self-surrender to a social tradition can expect in return.
The Keyword is GROUP-RESPONSIBILITY. "


Taurus 18:

"A WOMAN AIRING AN OLD BAG THROUGH THE OPEN WINDOW OF HER ROOM.
KEYNOTE: The cleansing of the ego-consciousness.

In this third stage of the present sequence the first two stages should be considered background. The traditional teachings concerning man's nature are somehow reconciled with the youthful enthusiasm that sees in every problem of growth an issue between the "good" and the "bad." The symbol suggests that the real enemy is within the mind; it is the ego and its attachment to possessions. The mind is shown in the likeness of a "bag," now empty and needing to be aired in the sunlight. But the "window" must first be opened and the bag emptied. The phrase "cleansing the doors of perception" has become well known of late. But even more to be cleansed is the container of perceptual images — i.e. the ego mind. The Keyword is PURIFICATION."
In fact, P.V. upon further review of the other two points, 12* Libra and 01* Leo, I find it is all there...

Recall that the Psychiatrist is trying even right to the very end to 'extract' from the fellow in the wheel chair just what went down.
[from Dane Rudhyar's, "An Astrological Mandala".}

LIBRA 12° MINERS ARE SURFACING FROM A DEEP COAL MINE.

KEYNOTE: The need to carry on at ever-deeper levels the quest for knowledge which keeps burning the fires of the collective mind of a society.

The search for knowledge demands the dedication of many minds digging ever deeper into the realities of our earthly existence. It is a hard, often dark pursuit amidst great difficulties and the possibility of being spiritually asphyxiated by the constant intellectual effort and tension. When a person is confronted by this symbol it could be interpreted as showing the need for such an intellectual dedication but also as pointing to the advisability of emerging from it and leading a more natural life.

This second stage symbol is related to the first in that in both we see conditions of existence dealing with work for the sake of the collectivity. The opposition between intellectual and manual work is evident; less so is the fact that both classes of workers experience definite physical consequences as a result of their occupation: the eyes of the professor, the lungs of the coal miner. The professor digs in the intellectual past of mankind to find what may warm up the mental processes of his students; the coal miner brings to the surface the ancient remains of what once was living substance. Keyword: EXTRACTION."

...and let us not forget how the entity K-PAX found his self in another form on another world/realm...[ibid.]

LEO 1°: BLOOD RUSHES TO A MAN’S HEAD AS HIS VITAL ENERGIES ARE MOBILIZED UNDER THE SPUR OF AMBITION.

KEYNOTE: An irruption of bio-psychic energies into the ego-controlled field of consciousness.


The occult tradition speaks of three kinds of 'Fire': Electric fire, Solar Fire and Fire by friction. The three Fire signs of the zodiac correspond to these. Aries refers to the ‘descent’ of the spiritual energy of the Creative Word. In its material aspect we know this energy as electricity, and without electrical energy no life processes could exist. Leo represents Solar Fire, the energy which is released from an integrated person, either through spontaneous radiations of apparently nuclear forms of energy, or, at the truly human and conscious level (and also superhuman in more transcendent realms), through conscious emanations (e-mana-tions, from manas meaning ‘mind’ in Sanskrit. Sagittarius is related to the fire by friction, because all social processes are based on interpersonal relations, which imply polarization and often conflict.
The key symbol for Leo depicts a rising of energy from the heart to the head, a ‘mentalization’ process. However, this process is a potentially dangerous one. Thus the original wording of the symbolic scene seen by the clairvoyant referred to ‘a case of apoplexy’ – just as a person standing with their head uncovered for a long time in tropical regions could get sunstroke. The sun can destroy as well as vivify. Without it’s symbolical mate, water, it produces deserts on earth. The realization of atman, the spiritual self, the existence of a formed and steady ego – provided the ego can become a lens of pure crystal focusing the all-pervasive cosmic light of the Brahman without introducing the shadows of pride possessiveness and showmanship. But this ‘provided’ raises a very large question. The transmutation of ‘life’ into ‘mind’ is a difficult process.

This is the first stage of the twenty-fifth five-fold sequence of symbols which opens the ninth Scene. The keynote of ‘Combustion’ for the entire series of fifteen phases hardly needs interpretation. In a general sense the key word for this first degree of the sign Leo could be CONFLAGRATION. The energies of the biological drives as they irrupt, more or less forcefully, into the field of consciousness."

It's ALL THERE P.V. .... excellent example...good sleuthing, indeed!
 
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Love that movie...and didn't you find it interesting, and ironic, that Jeff Bridges had played the title role in "Starman"?

The 24th of Sag. my Part of Intelligence/Skill and the 18th of Taurus my Desc.!
...and my Hermetic Lot of Victory just a few minutes of a degree in the 8th of Pisces... nearly right on the cusp to the 7th...


yeah, i was looking up those points in Yeshua's chart... and i noticed all at 6 pisces, He has natal venus, part of self sacrifice, and part of damage. what a fitting combo!:love:

your part of victory is 7/8 pisces? my part of soul is 7.27 pisces; Yesh has some there too, one of which is part of gossip as + merc - nep ...... hmmmmm............ maybe look into that one more next...

isn't it cancer 30? I admit though, after reading the symbol for leo one and seeing how uncannily fitting it is for the ending of that movie, i had one of those ahha moments. (coincidence?:sideways:)
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
your part of victory is 7/8 pisces? my part of soul is 7.27 pisces; Yesh has some there too, one of which is part of gossip as + merc - nep ...... hmmmmm............ maybe look into that one more next...

HA!


My part of As + merc - nep @ virgo 8 (exactly opposite pisces 8?!) says this: [ibid]

"The child-consciousness is still dominated by some form of authority; but if the child is "five years old," the implication is that he is entering ' the level of conscious manhood, represented by the number 5, the five-pointed star which outlines at least the POTENTIALITY OF INITIATION. "


now.... what... could... that..... mean.....? hmmmmmmmmm.....

...... guess i gotta study this whole star thing some more. :andy::joyful::innocent:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member


yeah, i was looking up those points in Yeshua's chart... and i noticed all at 6 pisces, He has natal venus, part of self sacrifice, and part of damage. what a fitting combo!:love:

your part of victory is 7/8 pisces? my part of soul is 7.27 pisces; Yesh has some there too, one of which is part of gossip as + merc - nep ...... hmmmmm............ maybe look into that one more next...

isn't it cancer 30? I admit though, after reading the symbol for leo one and seeing how uncannily fitting it is for the ending of that movie, i had one of those ahha moments. (coincidence?:sideways:)

Well, I now realize I overstated any significance as to my Hermetic Lot of Victory in relative position to the cusp...as for the reason that I had forgotten that although rectifying my chart as much as a full minute earlier will change, for example my Part of Fortune or Part of Soul/Spirit
[Asc. + :moon: - :sun: & Asc. + :sun: - :moon:] to a difference of 11' 59" less, that the Hermetic Lot of Victory utilizes slow moving Jupiter and for which the position remains negligibly the same and also includes in the formula the Part of Soul/Spirit as the "Trigger" and this results in a total difference in position, for a full minute earlier, of only 44" of a degree.

I have figured that my recorded birth time is fast due to from having rectified a few Parts/Lots, that are very close to the cusp to the previous degree, a couple/few minutes the less... as the symbolism for the previous degrees made sense to the nature of the "Part" or "Lot" as it relates to myself. I figure that the total needed rectification may possibly be as much as a half a minute less...andin fact it may yet turn out to be even a skosh more once I get to having studied them all...if I ever do get to 'Them all'... as I'm still not sure that there is a finite and limited amount of them.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I have been wanting to take the data and the symbols produced from that proposed Yeshu'a/Jesus birth chart, the Pentagram to the M.C. in the 1st degree of Cancer and also incorporate into the 'Story/Plot' the other three axis points, those that represent "WHO", "WHERE-TO" and the "WHY" or "HOW" of the I.C., depending upon which of the two choices one makes as to interpret and for what purpose [Spiritual or Mundane] and then attempt to produce something a bit more than a bare bones, objective kind of 'Story/Plot outline than that which is produced by simply combining the Sabian symbols in some sequential order of some sort or another...but the 'Muse' hasn't been kind.
I figure that it will describe the protagonist, the main character, of the 'Plot Outline', or 'Story', symbolically illustrated by the Pentagram of the Mid Haven.

Whether or not the chart I have been championing is truly that correct natal chart it does still produce what Dane Rudhyar proposed would [or insinuated would be] found on the birth chart of the man from Nazareth if it were to ever become known, in that Rudhyar indicated he believed that the first degrees of the four Cardinal signs to be the chart axis of Yeshu'a/Jesus in his book an 'Astrological Mandala' in the later part of that book in the chapter titled, "The Cross and the Star", although He did emphasize the 1st degree of Aries as the Asc. I think it is obvious that He was also hinting as much to the first degree of Libra but hadn't yet accumulated any case histories or evidence to demonstrate his agreeing with the Theosophists' Esoteric School of Astrology belief and practice in following the Moon Nodes [in reverse, or Clock wise] as to proceeding through the 360 symbols in a Spiritually evolutionary process of transformation but with the added rectification of beginning at Virgo 30* instead of Aries 1* or Pisces 30* [I'm not altogether positive where the "Esoteric Astrologers" declare to begin...as to the one or the other.] in contrast to following the 'Traditional' belief and practice of beginning at Aries 01* and proceeding in a Counter-Clock-Wise direction, which is a 'Materially involutionary' process of transformation, i.e. a path of successive precepts [symbols by degrees] that cause one to become more immersed or enmeshed with matter, more entangled in the Maya-the illusion.

As I have pointed out a number of times Rudhyar's oft used phrase, "All true paths of discipleship begin in Virgo." was the hint, the 'give-away', that He believed that the fount of all Christianity was born with a Libra Ascendant in the first degree, Rudhyar just never came right out and stated it for the reason, I most likely figure to be, that he couldn't afford to alienate the amount of people that, in turn, would from he enormous bulk of the rest of his teachings. Dane Rudhyar had had the most minuscule amount of public recognition for a lifetime of dedicated effort, his accumulated knowledge and hard earned findings outside of astrological circles, by the age of 74 or 75 when the major publishing houses finally started to publish some of his writings ...He lived long enough to see that it wasn't all in vain, but there wasn't enough evidence or time left to accumulate it prior to his death at age 90, in 1985.

In my opinion, Dane went to his grave knowing the key to the answer of many astrological questions and died only hoping that he left enough obvious clues and that someone would come along and pick up the burden of proof, where He had left it, and continued on with it to its destination.

I have studied the particular pentagram that is aligned with the first degree of Cancer as the M.C., as that is what the chart has for the M.C. that I'm personally convinced is cast for the correct time and location of the birth of the man whom became one with the Christ consciousness {or by what ever term different sects find appropriate... For an example; "Krishna consciousness" seems to me to be one and the same.} and presently, I am very confident in the method of interpretation that follows the symbols in the reverse direction, skipping every other point so as to read in its' finality as: :aquarius: 07* - :virgo: 13* - :aries: 19* - :scorpio: 25* - :cancer: 01* [the M.C. being the last symbolic step in the process as it seems to make sense as being the culmination that the preceding four lead up to the as the M.C. is the "HOW" or "WHY" of the life story ...and I think it's kind of obvious in that the symbolism for the 1* Cancer being that of: [ibid.]

"ON A SHIP THE SAILORS LOWER AN OLD FLAG AND RAISE A NEW ONE.
KEYNOTE: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return.
" thus it stands to reason the symbolism of the other four points of the pentagram would have had to been of influence prior to that. No one of sound mind has ever been known to risk there life betting on an unknown 'dark horse' as such any other consideration would imply... and as to the total number of all the possible logically sound considerations there are, IMHO there are only two ways that it can possibly be. Either it is the first step of the symbolic process or it is the last,...

...I say it surely can be no other than to be the last.

[Note: Yes, I realized this evening that I erroneously gave the 24th degree of Scorpio as part of this pentagram a number of weeks ago a number of posts back in this thread... it made symbolical sense to me at the time, and still does in context to the man and the legends/myths/ accounts that accompany. But as this entire subject/concept of this process of applying a pentagram based on the M.C. to a natal chart for purposes of understanding or interpretation is relatively new to myself and to my studies concerning said natal chart, I figure it is somewhat excusable as that was the first time I ever attempted ascertaining the four points that make up a pentagram to the 1st degree of Cancer.... I'm only human and prone to mistakes as much as anyone... and calculating increments of the more irrational enumerated aspects such as Septiles, Hendectiles and Quintiles aren't so easily perceived as all the others that the number thirty divides evenly into.]

So what the Pentagram plot line to a natal chart with Cancer 01* as it's M.C. is, I find to be as follows:[ibid.]

____________________________________________
{The nativity and infanthood}

"AQUARIUS 7°: A CHILD IS SEEN BEING BORN OUT OF AN EGG.

KEYNOTE: The emergence of new mutations according to the great rhythms of the cosmos.


The ancient symbolism of the Cosmic Egg (Hiranyagharba in Sanskrit) out of which a new universe is born can be interpreted at several levels. Here we see the appearance of a new type of human being who is not born from 'Ancestors' and who therefore is free from the inertia of mankind's past. He is a new product of evolution, a mutant. He constitutes a fresh projection of the creative Spirit that emanates from the cosmic or planetary Whole, and not from any local culture and racial tradition.

This second stage symbol is in contrast with the preceding one. It can be said to announce the EMERGENCE OF GLOBAL MAN for the New Age. The power of the whole is focused within him in perfect freedom from ancient standards of value based on local conditions."
____________________________________________
{The early years, it is by a few accounts that he was quite a voice to be reckoned with prior to the so called 'Lost Years" and that at even such a young age had held discourse with and at times debated Rabbi's many, many times his senior.}

"VIRGO 13°: A POWERFUL STATESMAN OVER-COMES A STATE OF POLITICAL HYSTERIA.

KEYNOTE: The focusing of the collective need for order and structural interdependence into a personage who incarnates the answer to this need.

The husband role of fecundator of nature here takes on a collective social significance. We are at the stage where a powerful realization of the very purpose of the cycle of existence faces the chaotic remains of a dis-structured past. The character of the leader is always delineated by the need, subconscious though it may be, of the unformed agglomeration of entities he is called upon by destiny to lead. In time the leader will be worshiped as the 'divine Father' of the society he structured.

At this third stage of the thirty-third sequence we see a new type of characterization of the many-faceted polarization of positive and negative. We have before us a personage endowed with CHARISMA, this elusive and mysterious power that comes from a man's or woman's openness to the power of planetary evolution."

____________________________________________
{The following two degrees and the symbolisms seem very much to me to be associated with those so called 'Lost Years' in consideration of what the renowned 20th century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce had to say about those years and also the famed "Aquarian Gospel" ...which personally I find to be laced with a bit too many inconsistencies to be taken for truth in fact but seems to be based on some knowing source, although incomplete as gaps seemed to have been existent and that were filled in by a well meaning but creative imagination.}

"ARIES 19°: THE 'MAGIC CARPET' OF ORIENTAL IMAGERY.

KEYNOTE: The use of creative imagination.


A way of life refusing a hectic involvement in social competition and waste-producing overproduction allows for the development of unattached and transcendent understanding. The static floor (carpet) on which man's feet (symbols of understanding) rest can become transformed into the means for great flights of imagination and super-physical perception. The period of rest from outwardly directed activity bound to collective normality presents the creative mind with the possibility of surveying in dreams the totality of the present-day social situation, thus 'to see whole.'

The fourth stage of the fourth five-fold sequence of symbols invokes the possibility of developing a new technique of perception, A STRIFE-TRANSCENDING AND UNATTACHED OUTLOOK UPON EVERYDAY REALITY."

____________________________________________

"SCORPIO 25°: AN X-RAY PHOTOGRAPH.

KEYNOTE: The capacity to acquire a knowledge of the structural factors in all existence.


The true philosopher is able to grasp and significantly evaluate what underlies all manifestations of life. His mind's eye penetrates through the superficialities of existence and perceives the framework that gives an at least relatively permanent 'form' to all organized systems. Thus if the structure is weak, deformed by persistent strain, or unbalanced, the basic causes of outer disturbances and dis-ease can be discovered.

This symbol concludes the forty-seventh five-fold sequence. It gives an added dimension to the preceding four. For instance, it provides the conscience of the individual who refuses to obey his society with a depth-understanding of what is wrong in the situation he faces. Beyond the powerful feeling quality of 'peak experiences,' the mind can understand the great Principles of which they were the manifestations. This is STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE in contrast to existential knowledge."

____________________________________________
{...and lastly, everything that He surely became after his return to Israel at around age 30... at least from what all i know and believe to be as accurate an account and what also jibes with Edgar Cayce's account of the life of the man up to [...and, according to many, also including and from thereafter] his crucifixion.}

"CANCER 1°: ON A SHIP THE SAILORS LOWER AN OLD FLAG AND RAISE A NEW ONE.
KEYNOTE: A radical change of allegiance exteriorized in a symbolical act: a point of no return.

We have now reached a square (go-degree angle) to the beginning of the cyclic process. This is a moment of crisis, a sharp turning point. In the zodiacal cycle, at the summer solstice the northward motion of the sun (in 'decimation') stops; the sun rises and sets as far north of exact east and west as it can during the year-cycle. Its motion is now reversed. Slowly the sunset points move southward on the western horizon, and the length of the day decreases. In the lunation cycle (from New Moon to New Moon) this is the First Quarter phase. On the 'ship' which symbolizes the ego-consciousness floating, as it were, on the sea of the vast Unconscious, the individualized will makes a basic decision. The dominant Yang force allows the Yin force to begin its six-month long rise to power. The 'collective' will gradually overcomes the 'individual,' and at the end the state will overpower the person. Now, however, the individual person enjoys his most glorious
hour; he exults in his ability to make a 'free decision'- i.e. to act as an individual who selects his life goal and his allegiance.

This is the first stage in the nineteenth five-fold series of degree symbols. In a decisive act heavy with consequences, the symbolic college youth might realize that he should bring to an end his quest for the ideal companion and enter into matrimony. He assents to the possibility of progeny, of home responsibility. His consciousness accepts a process of fundamental REORIENTATION, implying the stabilization of his energies."

____________________________________________
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member


yeah, i was looking up those points in Yeshua's chart... and i noticed all at 6 pisces, He has natal venus, part of self sacrifice, and part of damage. what a fitting combo!:love:

your part of victory is 7/8 pisces? my part of soul is 7.27 pisces; Yesh has some there too, one of which is part of gossip as + merc - nep ...... hmmmmm............ maybe look into that one more next...

isn't it cancer 30? I admit though, after reading the symbol for leo one and seeing how uncannily fitting it is for the ending of that movie, i had one of those ahha moments. (coincidence?:sideways:)

Well, actually His natal /Venus according to the chart i produced is at 06* :pisces: 42" and it is thus the 7th degree and altogether different symbolism ...but it is the next degree in a spiritual evolutionary transformative process

...and that 24th degree of Sagittarius..."The Bluebird of Happiness..." such a wonderful symbol/precept and that also happens to be the position of your natal Uranus and my Part of Intelligence and Skill and it does seems to repeatedly come up in composite charts made with that "Yeshu'a Chart" or the Parts/Lots derived from them ...as so does the 6th and, or, 7th degree of Pisces {My composite North Node with said chart being at 25* Sag. 06' and the composite Jupiter being at 06* Pisces 18'... and isn't it interesting that the composite I.C. for me and that "Yeshu'a chart' is a at 27* Cap. 33' exactly conj. the USA natal [Zero Hour chart 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776, Philadelphia chart] position of Pluto at 27* Cap. 33' and that the USA and Yeshu'a progressed natal composite on the date of the Full Moon/Super-Moon last June 23rd, in 2013 had both South Node of the Moon and the Asc. at 27 * Capricorn 56' and conj. the natal Pluto of the USA. ...it is a bit overwhelming presently, ...and even though the majority of others here believe us to be wrong or daft about any of this Yeshu'a/Jesus and even as to that chart I and you believe to be the natal of the USA ...the fact remains that all of these recurring degrees and symbols are produced, or derived, from those charts and that alone is notable just for the sheer improbability of it ..and we have to be given some due consideration of slack for our believing in them and getting caught up in it...or so I think.
I do the same in return all the time for people that have their own beliefs that I find I doubt or have cause to suspect... after all, turnabout is only fair play.
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Well, I now realize I overstated any significance as to my Hermetic Lot of Victory in relative position to the cusp...as for the reason that I had forgotten that although rectifying my chart as much as a full minute earlier will change, for example my Part of Fortune or Part of Soul/Spirit
[Asc. + :moon: - :sun: & Asc. + :sun: - :moon:] to a difference of 11' 59" less, that the Hermetic Lot of Victory utilizes slow moving Jupiter and for which the position remains negligibly the same and also includes in the formula the Part of Soul/Spirit as the "Trigger" and this results in a total difference in position, for a full minute earlier, of only 44" of a degree.

I have figured that my recorded birth time is fast due to from having rectified a few Parts/Lots, that are very close to the cusp to the previous degree, a couple/few minutes the less... as the symbolism for the previous degrees made sense to the nature of the "Part" or "Lot" as it relates to myself. I figure that the total needed rectification may possibly be as much as a half a minute less...andin fact it may yet turn out to be even a skosh more once I get to having studied them all...if I ever do get to 'Them all'... as I'm still not sure that there is a finite and limited amount of them.


Ahh, well that would put your lot of victory conjunct Yeshua's venus & self-sacrifice and that makes perfect sense, imo. :smile:

Well I don't take it as coincidence that i noticed that part (As + merc - nep) in this thread and my symbol has to do with the star. I will have to spend some more time on that one.

Thanks for posting that star interpretation... given me much to think about...

sdh3 did make the comment that many sci-fi movies start with aqua 7...
hollywood, lol.

....they sure know how to tell a story, i'll give them that.

Yeah, so far with the movies that seem to have a very blatant and obvious symbol associated with it, all of the five symbols seem to fit along with the plot. It might even be that the perfect cross would further illustrate the who,what, where.... but that would require figuring which of the star symbols would be the "how" for the MC...

going back to the kpax movie as an example... make 24 sag the mc.... which would give a pisces 24/ virgo 24 ac/dc...OR.... we could make cancer 30 the mc... taking the idea that the mc would best represent the "end" of the movie.... which would give a libra 30/ aries 30 ac/ dc

after taking a breif look at those symbols.... libra 30 seems like it WOULD fit the "Who".... ("man's power of understanding") and Aries 30 could fit the whom-to.... ("the realization of natural boundaries")

as it seems to represent one's change in perception regarding the main character as the story progresses. (in the opening scene the main character gave the sense that he "knew" something the viewer didnt.... and in the end, you are made to see the boundaries that same "character" [vessel] is faced with... left wondering if he knew anything, at all...)

HMMMM! :joyful:
 

sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories---Star 7

The 7th of the 72 five-pointed stars is comprised of the following symbols:

Virgo 1 A man's head.
Aries 7 A man successfully expressing himself in two realms at once.
Scorpio 13 An inventor experimenting.
Gemini 19 A large archaic volume.
Capricorn 25 An oriental-rug dealer.

One recent story that seems to be inspired by this star is the animated feature from 2010 entitled "Megamind.". According to Wikipedia, The film tells the story of

"...a super-intelligent alien supervillain, Megamind, who after a long-lasting battle one day actually destroys his nemesis, the much-loved superhero Metro Man. Having the fictional Metro City for himself, Megamind finds out that his villainy has no purpose and thus creates a new superhero for him to fight. As his plan does not work and Metro City is spiraling out of control, Megamind attempts to set things right and discover his newfound purpose as a superhero."

As can be seen from the image below, Megamind has quite a large head (Virgo 1/ Gemini 19), an all-too-obvious symbol of his superior intelligence.

Megamind-cover-cd.jpg


Aries 7 (A man successfully expressing himself in two realms at once) takes on a clever significance here. One definition of a "realm" is "A community or territory over which a sovereign rules." When Megamind defeats MetroMan, he is in fact the unopposed ruler of Metro City, something that he finds lacking. He then sets about to restore some semblance of balance to the situation. Thus there are two realms--MetroCity before and after and then restored to it's original condition, with a slight change, of course.

As for Scorpio 13 (An inventor experimenting), one way in which Megamind demonstrates is superior intelligence is through is numerous inventions. Interestingly, a Google search on "Megamind's inventions" reveals an entire page devoted to this topic. Included in the list are: Brain-bots (Megamind's robot assistants; they have special abilities such as light display and flight, they also have dog-like personalities); the De-gun a weapon Megamind invented as a kid which he usually uses to dehydrate things); The Death Gun (a ray powered by solar energy which Megamind used to kill Metro Man); the Disguise Generator Watch (a watch-like device that can (almost completely) change the appearance of whoever uses it); the Invisible car (automobile which can turn invisible with a control); Knock-Out Spray (a spray which Minion uses to knock people out.); the Spider Bot a scorpion-like robot) and of course, his Battle Suit (a giant robot suit which Megamind used to fight Tighten in the movie until the latter destroyed it).
 

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sdh3

Well-known member
The Mighty Macs

The 27th five-pointed star is comprised of the following Sabian symbols:

Virgo 21: A girl's basketball team
Aries 27: Lost opportunity regained in the imagination
Sagittarius 3: Two men playing chess
Cancer 9: A tiny nude miss reaching in the water for a fish
Aquarius 15: Two lovebirds sitting on a fence


A recent film that made use of the symbols in this star is "The Mighty Macs."

"In the early 70s, Cathy Rush becomes the head basketball coach at a tiny, all-girls Catholic college. Though her team has no gym and no uniforms -- and the school itself is in danger of being sold -- Coach Rush looks to steer her girls to their first national championship."


The first symbol (Virgo 21) is the one most clearly related to the film's premise.

The "two lovebirds" are epitomized or embodied in the relationship between the coach, Cathy Rush, and her husband.

The "lost opportunity regained in the imagination" is wonderfully and cleverly demonstrated in the final scene of Coach Rush's first practice session with the team, the team that up to that point who had done nothing but lose. In that scene she hands each girl a piece of paper and asks them to close there eyes and mentally imagine transferring everything they know about basketball onto their sheet. She then asks them to open their eyes and hand the papers back to her. The coach then takes the sheets of paper and tosses them into the trash bin.

The "chess playing" symbol works out in the way that Coach Rush teaches the girls to learn and play the game--smartly and strategically, relying on teamwork and trust over just pure athletic ability.


onesheet.jpg


Another fairly recent film appearing to utilize these same symbols is "Believe in Me" which is described by IMDb as follows: "In a conservative small town, a young man's wish to coach high school basketball are tweaked by a school board decision that makes him the new coach of the girls' team."

BelieveinMe.jpg


believe-in-me-movie-poster-2005-1020449043.jpg
 
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