Sabian Symbols and Stories

sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories: Star 13

The 13th five-pointed star is comprised of these Sabian Symbols:

Aquarius 01 An old adobe mission.
Virgo 07 A harem.
Aries 13 An unsuccessful bomb explosion.
Scorpio 19 A parrot listening and then talking.
Gemini 25 A man trimming palms.

Though it may not be immediately obvious, there is a very Middle Eastern them running through at least three of these symbols. The word "adobe' (Aquarius 01) is Spanish but descends from the Arabic al-tuba which in turn is traced back to the ancient Egyptian dbt which means "brick." The word "harem" (Virgo 07) is Turkish but descends from the Arabic "harim" which means forbidden place and from "harama" which means to prohibit. Finally, the world "palms" most likely refers to palm trees which have been cultivated in the Middle East for over 5000, have had a great impact on the history of the region, and which are mentioned no fewer than 20 times in both the Holy Bible and the Holy Koran, scriptures whose religions originated in the Middle East. Perhaps it is no surprise then that one of the most successful films based upon this star is The Hurt Locker, the 2008 multiple Academy-Award winner about an bomb disposal team operating in and round Baghdad during the Iraq War.

"As an elite Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal team tactfully navigates the streets of present-day Iraq, they face the constant threat of death from incoming bombs and sharp-shooting snipers. In Baghdad, roadside bombs are a common danger. The Army is working to make the city a safer place for Americans and Iraqis, so when it comes to dismantling IEDs (improvised explosive devices) the Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) crew is always on their game. "​

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sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories: Star 41

The 41st five-pointed star is comprised of

Taurus 11 A woman sprinkling flowers.
Sagittarius 17 An Easter sunrise service.
Cancer 23 Meeting of a literary society.
Aquarius 29 Butterfly emerging from chrysalis.
Libra 05 A man teaching the true inner knowledge.

The best and perhaps best-known film inspired from this star is the 1989, Robin Williams classic, "Dead Poets Society." Williams plays the lead character, "English teacher John Keating, who inspires his students to a love of poetry and to seize the day." He is, then, the embodiment of Libra 05. The setting or context for the story, as well as its title, is provided by Cancer 23--Meeting of a literary society.

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sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories: Star 58

The 58th five-pointed star is comprised of these five symbols:

Pisces 16 The flow of inspiration.
Libra 22 A child giving birds a drink at a fountain.
Taurus 28 A woman pursued by mature romance.
Capricorn 04 A party entering a canoe.
Leo 10 Early morning dew.

A very notable and obvious theme here is water/liquid. In the first symbol is the word "flow" which means "To move or run smoothly with unbroken continuity, as in the manner characteristic of a fluid." In the second symbol we find the word "fountain," one definition of which is "An artificially created jet or stream of water." The fourth symbol mentions a canoe which is a kind of watercraft. The final symbol mentions "dew" which we know to be "water droplets condensed from the air, usually at night, onto cool surfaces." So it is quite interesting that a story built around the third is set not in the mountains, not on the plains, not in the desert, but on the seaside. That movie is the 2008 release "Nights in Rodanthe." It features Diane Lane as an "unhappy married woman" and Richard Gere as her "mature romance." Incidentally, Gere was in his late-50s at the time of the filming. Here's the synopsis from Rotten Tomatoes:

Adapted from author Nicholas Sparks' popular romance novel, director George C. Wolfe's Nights in Rodanthe tells the tale of a doctor (Richard Gere) en route to reconcile with his estranged son when his benevolent mission is sidelined upon checking into a North Carolina beach-town inn. When the doctor arrives at the inn, he enters into a passionate affair with an unhappily married woman (Diane Lane) who is currently considering divorce.

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sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories: Star 29

The 29th five-pointed star is comprised of these five symbols:

Cancer 11 A clown making grimaces.
Aquarius 17 A watchdog standing guard.
Virgo 23 An animal trainer.
Aries 29 A celestial choir singing.
Sagittarius 05 An old owl up in a tree.

Taken together, I see in these five symbols happy, inspiring, or even life-affirming interactions between man and animal. The happy part comes from the first symbol--the clown--and the fourth--the celestial choir singing. the animals are found on the second, third, and fifth symbols--the guard dog, the animal trainer, and the old owl.

At least three movies come to mind that emphasize this group of five symbols. The first and most obviously comedic is the 1994, Jim Carrey film, Ace Ventura: Pet Detective. IMDB's one-sentence summary is "A goofy detective specializing in animals goes in search of a missing dolphin mascot of a football team." So the Carrey character is, then, the embodiment of the first symbol (clown) and some of the second (guard) and third (animal trainer).

Another, more recent addition to this genre is The Zookeeper, a story about " a group of zoo animals decide to break their code of silence in order to help their lovable zoo keeper find love -- without opting to leave his current job for something more illustrious." Like Ace Ventura before it, there are scenes in the Zookeeper that involve animals and humans singing together (Aries 29's choir).

In the less comedic but more life-affirming and heart-warming category comes 2011's "We bought a Zoo." The film is set in Southern California and tells the story of a father who "moves his young family to the countryside to renovate and re-open a struggling zoo. ... With the help of an eclectic staff, and with many misadventures along the way, the family works to return the dilapidated zoo to its former wonder and glory."

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sdh3

Well-known member
PhoenixVenus, thanks for sharing these.

I have Flight on my "to see" list for some time this semester. I've seen the first few minutes and had provisionally assigned it to the star that includes Gemini 10 (An airplane falling) rather than Pisces 10 (An aviator in the clouds). Perhaps not surprisingly, I assigned DiCaprio's "The Aviator" about the life of Howard Hughes to the latter. Once I've seen Flight I'll let you know how I see it.

As for Prometheus, I've not see that yet. My first guess would have been one to which I've assigned my sci-fi /ufo/alien movies--Aquarius 07 (a child born out of an egg), Aries 19 (A magic carpet), Cancer 1 (a furled and unfurled flag). But until I watch it, I'll gladly go with your interpretation.

Again thanks.

truly,
sdh3


From the movie Flight:


Pisces 10:
AN AVIATOR PURSUES HIS JOURNEY, FLYING THROUGH GROUND-OBSCURING CLOUDS Man's ability to develop powers and skills which by transcending natural limitations allow him to operate in mental-spiritual realms. MASTERY
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Taur 22:
WHITE DOVE FLYING OVER TROUBLED WATERS. The spiritual inspiration that comes to the individual in the overcoming of crisis. REWARD TO THE FAITHFUL.
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Leo 04:
A FORMALLY DRESSED ELDERLY MAN STANDS NEAR TROPHIES HE BROUGHT BACK FROM A HUNTING EXPEDITION. The masculine will to conquer his animal nature and to impress his peers with his skill in performing the ancient traditional power rituals.


Lib 16:
AFTER A STORM A BOAT LANDING STANDS IN NEED OF RECONSTRUCTION.The need to keep in operation steady links between the vast Unconscious and the ego-consciousness. REPAIR.


Sag 28:
AN OLD BRIDGE OVER A BEAUTIFUL STREAM IS STILL IN CONSTANT USE. The enduring elements in a society which reveal its ability to significantly link the genius of its individuals to the everyday needs of the collectivity. THE BEAUTIFUL NECESSITY.



From the movie Prometheus:


LIBRA 2:
THE TRANSMUTATION OF THE FRUITS OF PAST EXPERIENCES INTO THE SEED-REALIZATIONS OF THE FOREVER CREATIVE SPIRIT. A repolarization of inner energies leading to a creative centralization of consciousness. CREATIVE CENTRALIZATION.


Sag 14:
THE GREAT PYRAMID AND THE SPHINX. The enduring power of occult knowledge and of its quasi-divine Custodians, "Seed-men" of a previous cycle of existence. THE POWER OF SPIRITUAL ANCESTRY.


Aqua 26:
A GARAGE MAN TESTING A CAR'S BATTERY WITH A HYDROMETER. Skill in applying knowledge of natural laws to the solution of everyday problems resulting from life in our technological society. MENTAL EFFICIENCY.


Taurus 08:
A SLEIGH ON LAND UNCOVERED BY SNOW. The value of anticipating and preparing for expectable conditions. FUTURE-ORIENTED IMAGINATION


Can 20:
VENETIAN GONDOLIERS GIVING A SERENADE. Happiness as an overtone of social integration and conformity to custom. FESTIVITY.

That second set... wow... i've seen that movie about 5 times and can remember sooo many references to that set of symbols..

I've been looking for some fitting ones for the movie Donnie Darko.... i see a few possibilities... hmm?
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Sdh3, it's interesting how very literally some of these movies depict the symbols. Too bad I haven't seen half of these movies :p But now I'll have to check a few of them out. I wonder if you could do a few classics that nearly everyone has seen? Perhaps titanic or Lord of the Rings.

Regarding Flight, the symbol you suggest might very well fit the opening scene more precisely. I actually cannot remember exactly how it started out, but if i remember correctly, the plane did pass through stormy clouds which lead to the nose dive.

Upon looking at the set of symbols that go along with gemini 10, I still think the pisces 10 star fits better. But I can vaguely see a couple from the other set and I admit I don't remember the movie all too precisely. It will be interesting to see your interpretation once you see the full movie. Isn't it interesting that these stars are exactly squaring one another?

Without giving it away too much, here is the very first scene in Prometheus: An alien "spreads his dna" across Earth, allowing for life to form there.

So you might see how that relates sooo closely to "transmutation of the fruits of past experiences into the seed-realization of the forever creative spirit"
 
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sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories: Star 33

The thirty-third five-pointed star is comprised of

Aquarius 21 A woman disappointed and disillusioned.
Virgo 27 Grande dames at tea.
Taurus 03 Steps up to a lawn blooming with clover.
Sagittarius 09 A mother with her children on stairs.
Cancer 15 A group of people who have overeaten and enjoyed it.

The first and most obvious theme concerns women. The first symbol refers to a disappointed and disillusioned one. The second symbol describes women of stature or high society. The fourth symbol describes a mother with her children. And since the fifth symbol describes "people", then it can be inferred that women are among them.

Stories built around two or more of these symbols are ones I called "Ladies Club" movies. These include movies such as Steel Magnolias, Fried Green Tomatoes, Woman on the Verge of Nervous Breakdown, the Joy Luck Club and several others. Integral to all these stories is a group of women--young and old--who gather regularly to share their life experiences and provide one another with emotional support, usually through story-telling and commiseration, and always over food and drink.

Joy Luck Club: The film takes place in present-day San Francisco, concentrating on a group of late-middle-aged Chinese women. Ever since arriving in the United States after World War II, the women have gathered weekly to play mah-jongg and to tell stories, regaling each other with tales of their children and grandchildren, giving each other a sense of hope and renewal in the midst of poverty and hardship. The Joy Luck Club is made up of four women -- Suyuan, Lindo, Ying Ying, and An Mei. But when Suyuan dies, the three surviving members invite Suyuan's daughter June to take her place. Along with the daughters of the other members -- Waverly, Lena, and Rose-- June is a Chinese-American with only a passing interest in her rich cultural heritage. But through vignettes that switch back and forth in time, the daughters begin to appreciate the struggles of their mothers to start their families in the optimistic promise of the United States.

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Fried Green Tomatoes: A woman learns the value of friendship as she hears the story of two women and how their friendship shaped their lives... Evelyn Couch is an emotionally repressed housewife with a habit of drowning her sorrows in candy bars. Her husband Ed barely acknowledges her existence, and while he visits his aunt at a nursing home every week, Evelyn is not permitted to come into the room because the old women doesn't like her. One week, while waiting out Ed's visit, Evelyn meets Ninny Threadgoode, a frail but feisty old woman who lives at the same nursing home and loves to tell stories. Over the span of several weeks, she spins a whopper about one of her relatives, Idgie. Back in the 1920s, Idgie was a sweet but fiercely independent woman with her own way of doing things who ran the town diner in Whistle Stop, Alabama. Idgie was very close to her brother Buddy, and when he died, she wouldn't talk to anyone except Buddy's girl, Ruth Jamison. Idgie gave Ruth a job at the cafe after she left her abusive husband, Frank Bennett. Between her habit of standing up for herself, standing up to Frank, and serving food to Black people out the back of the diner, Idgie raised the ire of the less tolerant citizens of Whistle Stop, and when Frank mysteriously disappeared, many locals suspected that Idgie, Ruth, and their friends may have been responsible. Evelyn finds herself looking forward to her weekly visits with Ninny, and is inspired by her story to take a new pride in herself and assert her independence from Ed.

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Steel Magnolias: The title refers to those seemingly frail Southern belles who survive any and all deprivations through whims of iron. Robert Harling's original stage play was set exclusively in a Louisiana beauty parlor where an all-female cast of characters laughed, cried and compared menfolk. The film expands the playing field by including scenes at picnics, hospitals and the like, and by visually depicting the males who never appeared in the stage version. Dolly Parton plays the goodnatured beauty-shop owner, while Shirley MacLaine is the cantankerous town eccentric, decked out in grungy overalls and speaking fluent Trash. Well-to-do Sally Field bravely endures several assaults to her sensibilities, not the least of which is the illness (and subsequent death) of daughter Julia Roberts.

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sdh3

Well-known member
Phoenix Venus,

one thing I've begun to realize through this recent discussion is that I may have had this wrong all along. Or maybe I should say I've been looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Rather than being built on stars, it seems to me now that the stories are based on the ASPECTS upon which stars are comprised. I no longer hold the opinion that all five points are needed. Rather, take one symbol and then add to it one or two symbols that are in quintile or bi-quintile aspect and you've got the basis for the kind of dramatic or comedic tension that is the foundation for a story. I don't think it's the star, per se, because as I now see it, you don't need all five point and in fact rarely find all five emphasized to the same degree. There is always one that stands out as the prime symbol. It typically emphasizes the protagonist. The second usually emphasizes the context or setting wherein the struggle is worked out.

More on this later as I have to get to campus.

truly,
sdh3

Sdh3, it's interesting how very literally some of these movies depict the symbols. Too bad I haven't seen half of these movies :p But now I'll have to check a few of them out. I wonder if you could do a few classics that nearly everyone has seen? Perhaps titanic or Lord of the Rings.

Regarding Flight, the symbol you suggest might very well fit the opening scene more precisely. I actually cannot remember exactly how it started out, but if i remember correctly, the plane did pass through stormy clouds which lead to the nose dive.

Upon looking at the set of symbols that go along with gemini 10, I still think the pisces 10 star fits better. But I can vaguely see a couple from the other set and I admit I don't remember the movie all too precisely. It will be interesting to see your interpretation once you see the full movie. Isn't it interesting that these stars are exactly squaring one another?

Without giving it away too much, here is the very first scene in Prometheus: An alien "spreads his dna" across Earth, allowing for life to form there.

So you might see how that relates sooo closely to "transmutation of the fruits of past experiences into the seed-realization of the forever creative spirit"
 

sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories: Star 43

The 43rd five-pointed star is comprised of these five Sabian Symbols:

Pisces 01: A public market.
Libra 07: A woman feeding chickens and protecting them from hawks.
Taurus 13: A man handling baggage.
Sagittarius 19: Pelicans moving their habitat.
Cancer 25: A dark shadow or mantle thrown suddenly over the right shoulder.

Stories inspired by this star--and particularly those with the last symbol as the focus--feature the dark, brooding, conflicted and even reluctant hero. These include all Will Smith in Hancock, Idris Elba as Detective Luther in the BBC's series by the same name, and of course Batman. When combined with Taurus 13, the baggage is personal--emotional and psychological--and as heavy as it is dark. Hence the titles like" The Dark Knight." In the case of Hancock, the hero is first seen in a reduced state--a constantly drunk alcoholic--who does almost as much harm--in the form of property damage as he does good. And how interesting it is that the cap he sports has a hawk on it (Libra 07). And if you look carefully, you'll see another hawk or eagle in the reflection of his sunglasses, soaring (perhaps protectively) over Los Angeles, just above what looks like a rising sun.

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Idris Elba's Luther carries more baggage than the hold of a jetliner. ("A dedicated police officer, Luther is obsessive, possessed, and sometimes dangerous in the violence of his fixations.") More interestingly though is how in almost every scene he's wearing the dark mangle in the form of a dark overcoat--even in summer. It even figures prominently in the promotional poster for the show.

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About Batman we know plenty and there is no need to recount it all here. Definitely worth noting, however, is how the last film in the series featured a villain who attacked the stock market (Pisces 01, A public market), the exchange where shares of publicly-traded companies are listed.

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poyi

Premium Member
Povi, it looks to me that you have two back-to-back stars.

You have the MC at 13 Gemini which is Gemini 14. That's on Star #2
which I discussed earlier in this thread.


You have Saturn at 8 Scorpio which is Scorpio 9. That's on Star #3 which I'll discuss in a fresh post. The symbols are

Capricorn 21 A relay race.
Leo 27 Daybreak.
Aries 3 A cameo profile of a man in the outline of his country.
Scorpio 9 Dental work.
Gemini 15 Two Dutch children talking.


Your thinking on the use of stories to understand the issues is similar to mine. Specifically, seeing how the symbols have been dramatized may give some insight into how they might be understood in your chart.

truly,
sdh3

I am wondering if I had missed your post on the Scorpio 9 about the Dental work since I have Saturn at that degree as Star #3 and Star #2.
 

poyi

Premium Member
My Saturn biquntile MC to state the obvious. Still not quite understand this system. Saturn return was very challenging for me in term of health and affect my ability to do my best at work while at the same time I received my best comments from the authority during the same time period.
 

sdh3

Well-known member
Sabian Symbols and Stories: Star 21

The twenty-first five-pointed star is formed from these five symbols:

Aries 21 A pugilist entering the ring.
Scorpio 27 A military band on the march.
Cancer 3 A man all bundled up in fur leading a shaggy deer.
Aquarius 9 A flag turned into an eagle.
Virgo 15 An ornamental handkerchief.

The first four symbols here describe a man of a particular kind--a veritable man's man. He's a fighter entering the ring; if a military man, he's on the march; he braves the elements; he carries the flag and perhaps seeks to embody its ideals. The ornamental handkerchief is the symbol of the prize he gains for his efforts. Interestingly, the word "ornament" descends from the same etymological root as the word "army", "arms", and "armor." The Rocky series of movies starring Sylvester Stallone as the now-iconic Rocky Balboa has made excellent use of all of this imagery.

Here's Rocky entering the center of the ring (Aries 21)

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Here he is. all bundled up, leading a shaggy dog instead of deer (Cancer 3):

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Here's Rocky draped in the American flag (Aquarius 9)

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The championship belt serves as the ornamental handkerchief (Virgo 15). Note that he's got the belt in his hands and held over his head. The word "chief" in handkerchief descends from the etymological root kaput- which means "head."

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For those old enough to remember, the military music is found in the Rocky theme song, lots of brass, as military bands tend to have.

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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
My Saturn biquntile MC to state the obvious. Still not quite understand this system. Saturn return was very challenging for me in term of health and affect my ability to do my best at work while at the same time I received my best comments from the authority during the same time period.

that's an interesting dynamic for saturn return. Your sab symbol for saturn is about skillful and inventive repair. this resonates deeply with the natural theme os saturn and thus gives it prominence. it would be nice to see your chart if you are willing to share.

i have sun biquintile mc (a degree from perfection.. ) sun at 18 libra and mc at 7 leo(using sab degrees)

So sun rules mc, but sun is in 12th house and in fall.

so it makes sense that i feel more compelled towards a spiritual path but difficult manifesting that in career world.

my sun symbol is about being at odds with society

i have a job that i really am not happy with because it doesn't deal with helping people. though i try to make that a part of my attitude and "spiritual job" while at work, it is something that is not commonplace in my environment. i stay because my mom is sick and i want to be around for her.

i share this to maybe help you understand a bit better how the symbols help to define the chart.
 

poyi

Premium Member
that's an interesting dynamic for saturn return. Your sab symbol for saturn is about skillful and inventive repair. this resonates deeply with the natural theme os saturn and thus gives it prominence. it would be nice to see your chart if you are willing to share.

i have sun biquintile mc (a degree from perfection.. ) sun at 18 libra and mc at 7 leo(using sab degrees)

So sun rules mc, but sun is in 12th house and in fall.

so it makes sense that i feel more compelled towards a spiritual path but difficult manifesting that in career world.

my sun symbol is about being at odds with society

i have a job that i really am not happy with because it doesn't deal with helping people. though i try to make that a part of my attitude and "spiritual job" while at work, it is something that is not commonplace in my environment. i stay because my mom is sick and i want to be around for her.

i share this to maybe help you understand a bit better how the symbols help to define the chart.

My natal Saturn rules Capricorn Moon in the 5th and 6th house is Aquarius. Saturn semi sextile Uranus that is the only tight even orb for interpretation. Jupiter also conjuncts Uranus but in 6 separting orb so other than that semi sextile Uranus has no aspect and it governs my health. Saturn itself also only have 9 separating orb conjunction to Sun and 8 separating orb conjunction to Pluto so again truly Saturn should be classified as unaspected unless that weak 8S and 9S orb conjunction still counted. 2nd house Saturn bQ MC becomes more revealing also being one of my Star.

So for both planets Saturn 8 degrees 29'58" in Scorpio and Uranus 8 degrees 3'44" Sagittarius are the only effective aspect. It is interesting that the Moon governed by Saturn is also out of bound. I had mentioned many times in various thread about my mum. She has some interesting background and my relationship with her is not good, but strangely I do received a lot of help and a lot of positive comments by women at my mum age group. Moon also rules my 11th house and my POF also in Cancer but within the 10th cusp. The connection of Saturn semi sextile Uranus is one of my focus to work out about my health condition at the moment. There is a lot dynamic going on for both workplace and health.

At the moment, my health issues giving me a lot of grief to work my best physically, thought of changing my job many times and the reform at work is happening actively (mutual reception of Saturn sextile Pluto and the Uranus square manifesting at work). While I am emotionally defeat by my health and poor attitudes of some workmates, I also received a lot of positive feedback from the patients I looked after verbally and in formal writings and also from my managers even several levels higher than my ward managers. It is very strange period for me, mentally and physically, not at my very best period but received much compliments as if some forces trying to keep me going.

Saturn at 8 degrees 28' 58" Scorpio and MC at 13 degrees 36' 27" Gemini as I said MC conjuncts Vertex at 12 degrees 21'8" and North node 16 degrees 12' 56" and Rigel. MC, Vertex, and North node are all in parallel. MC is of course contra parallel to IC Jupiter, Neptune, SN and antivertex, very potent point of my chart.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I can see where it's just one other point rather than all five as to construction of a plot.
As my own pentagram in perfect matrix to my M.C. in the 25th of Leo is the 13th of Gemini, 1st of Aries, 19th of Capricorn and the 7th of Scorpio.
From those to the point of my own personal interest in the entire matter is the one symbol that triggers my M.C. symbol in the best manner and that would be the Bi-Quintile preceding it at the 19th of Cap.
It's a degree and symbol that has come up a lot in the last few years; {from Dane Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala".}

"A FIVE-YEAR-OLD CHILD CARRYING A BAG FILLED WITH GROCERIES.

KEYNOTE: Rising to the occasion when asked to assume social responsibilities ahead of one's normal development.


What seems to be implied at this stage of the cyclic process is the value of early conditioning in teaching one how to fulfill the responsibilities of everyday life in our modern society. This twentieth scene of the complete process has been entitled 'Group performance,' and today it is evident that Children at an early age are expected to assume a family role which at times will strain their natural capacities. This is part of the accelerating pace of our technological society.

This fourth stage symbol evokes the possibility of meeting a certain type of social opportunity which normally may seem premature. A pattern of ACCELERATED GROWTH can thus be established, with both positive and negative aspects. Rushing ahead of one's natural development may be damaging; yet we are living in a particularly dynamic period of man's evolution."

As my M.C., the "HOW" of my natal chart in an spiritually evolutionary manner of interpretation, is the symbol of a Camel crossing a desert, alone...and my Part of Imprisonment {that which I am imprisoned from} is the 21st of Virgo which is a symbol of being a member of a 'Team', that Dane has just described this symbol for the 21st of Capricorn being that of a part of "SCENE 20" as Dane categorized and named it here for the Sabian Symbols from Capricorn 16* through Capricorn 30* as "Group Performance", a child making the effort by himself to take a sociatialy and spiritually 'Step Up' in responsibility and duty is symbolically the closest I can make best the approach as to 'HOW" to complete my Dharma within the definition of "Group Performance" aka "Teamwork" and remain the 'solo-act' I had to be true to.
Just as my earliest teaching in and foundation for all my spiritual understandings and beliefs came from the basic tenets of Quaker theosopy my mother instilled in me... a faith based on listening to ones' own 'inner voice' in the belief that a righteously affirmed and lead life will not lead one astray. One knows what the next step up they could already be doing in service to their fellow humans and in selfless service to Gods' Plan. ...just as a child of 5 years old is aware of what this chore is, what it achieves, that it is of benefit to all and that he/she is capable of doing it, too.

As Rudhyar and Layla Rael, in their book "Astrological Aspects. A Process Oriented Approach" stated about the Bi-Quintile in context to the four possibilities within the Pentagram. The Semi-Qintile, the Quintile, the Tredecile and the Bi-Quintile... This all must be preceded with the mutual understanding and agreement that the Quintile represents an aspect of 'Genius'. Thus, where-as a Semi -Quitile represents an aspect for apply old techniques, or tools or knowledge [something that was already in hand prior] visualized and understood as how to be utilized in a new manner to produce the desire in mind. This is the 'True Genius', is in visualizing a heretofore unrealized means to achieving an end The Bi-Quintile represents seeing as how to incorporate [to introduce, apply, integrate] the 'Genius' made manifest in the most humanitarian and compassionate manner and form of the greatest benefit to all of humankind.
It certainly seems to me that taken that ones M.C. symbolism is truly symbolically representative of your spiritual dharma, your non-secular career but would also like it to be of as great effect for the mundane affairs as well... then the symbolism of the Bi-Quintile preceding it, is the choice to make.

...and quite interestingly, the symbolism given for Capricorn 19* is what my mother would ever be reminding me of as a young child right up to adulthood in that I already knew that I could see and know what needed to be done for the benefit of all without needing to be told of it or have it pointed out to me. That to do so was the most commendable thing I could do to help her and also to my younger sibs...as I was the oldest child... that by doing so I was setting a right example that they too could recognize and understand...and in turn want to follow my example...my footsteps,
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I mean, now think of it the other direction...from Aries 1* to Leo 25*

Aries one degree...well let's see what the symbol is basically...Gee, a free, fully functioning, new and young life form and all of 21 [legal] too... So then I ask, "How do I go about integrating that into society in the most magnanimous manner?" Is the answer you want to give me.. "Uh, gee, just go do your own thing, Camel, old buddy, go find your own groovy solo path across the desert."

or is the approach ..."What can I do to best integrate my taking responsibilities and actions for the betterment of all society [and not just myself] that are a step ahead of my present spiritual development into my own endeavors that are of a a personal importance in a lifetime journey across a desert...a 'solo-journey', at that?!?"

I think there's no question of which is the desired and more favorable of the two choices to be considered.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
So, if that being the case...then for every symbol.... every picture that tells a story... there are really only two ways of telling it... when you boil it all down...
imho... of course!
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
For example the story quite oft used to underscore the meaning of the 'Pentagram Inverted' as opposed to 'Upright', the novel by Ayn Rynd.
Two ways...should Atlas shrug or should he shoulder his responsibilities?
 
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