retrograde or stationary Saturn?

[charmvirgo]

Late afternoon on 13 September 1960 shows Saturn at 11deg49min Capricorn and with an RX symbol. The next two days it was still at 11deg49min, then direct on 16 September.

Does anyone have or know of an ephemeris that shows the seconds as well, or does anyone have or know of a chart program that displays the seconds, or anywhere I can find this information? Can anyone look it up for me?

I want to know exactly where Saturn was at, how fast it was moving RX, or whether it was stationary when I was born.

I have looked at a some ephemerides, but they only put R for retrograde and D for direct, without showing when planets are stationary in between. I tried looking on the internet and could not find anything that shows the seconds.

I read this recently:
Having a stationary planet in your chart is generally quite fortunate. Stationary planets emphasize the planetary influence, making you the epitome of that planet's attributes.
http://www.lightwarriors.ws/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=267

Reading that link was was set me wondering for the first time if maybe my Saturn might not be retrograde and it made me want to find out.

 

[Lunar Pisces]

HI charm,

Yes Saturn was stationary direct that day. I understand your frustration - I had a hard time figuring out whether my Uranus was stationary direct (it is).

At astrodienst (www.astro.com) you have to open up a free chart, and than look at the top of that chart. You should see two links: "View the PDF Drawing (for subscribers)" then beneath that, "View the additional tables (PDF)". Click on "View the additional tables (PDF)" That'll pull up a Adobe file (you'll need Adobe to read it) that has more info, including declination and speed. And if a planet's stantionary, they'll have a "sd" (for stationary direct) or "sr" (for stationary retrograded) after the longitude. For some dumb reason, when a planet is stationary, they don't mark it on the natal wheel charts, only in the additional table. Dont' ask me why.

Anyhow, I put in the date, and it shows in the additional table that Saturn was stationary direct when you were born and moving a -13" speed.

BTW, I got your PM - I'll try to answer that tomorrow.

 

[Lunar Pisces]

When a planet's stationary direct, it's technically still in retrograde, but no longer moving retrograde. Rather it seems (from our vantage point) to stand still before it starts moving direct again. Some astrologers see both stationary periods as significant, but with stationary direct having a unique potency in that it's the culmination of the retrograde cycle. At that culmination, there is a gathering of new insight, new understanding and new perspective that is then liberated in the stationary period - native with stationary direct planets are thought to be able to possess and better utilize the insight from the retrograde period without the dampening, inward-turning affect of the planet's retrograde movement.

My 1st house Uranus is stationary direct, and it's always very intriguing to read what astrologers say abotu Uranus retrograde, because it almost always applies to me, and usually in ten-fold.

 

[unukalhai]

On attachment is a by-the-minute ephemeris of Saturn, Sep 10 1960 to Sep 17 1960, times in GMT (London time, no daylight savings)

.CSV file inside the zip is a comma-separated-values file, can be viewed with a text editor or your favorite speadsheet program.

Degree is given down to the arcsecond and the last column is the daily motion, in degrees.

Exact station direct:
Sep/15/1960 10:49pm 11°Cap49'14"

 

[charmvirgo]

Thanks very much unukalhai.
Where did you find the information from? It is very, very exact.

 

[unukalhai]

You're welcome

That was generated with Solar Fire 6 and imported into Excel and then exported as a CSV to keep the file size small. Solar Fire 6, in turn, uses the standard Swiss Ephemeris routines and ephemeris data put out by astro.com (more info at http://www.astro.com/swisseph), which is based on the NASA JPL DE405/406 planetary ephemeris.

You can access the JPL ephemeris directly through NASA's site, also, although the data will be a bit more complex as this is a full-on astronomical ephemeris (ie: decimal position, 281.8204546 degrees). However, the ecliptic position is included, and is in tropical degrees. Yes, even astronomers agree the ecliptic starts where we consider tropical 0Aries Must peeve the sidereal folks

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi

For ecliptic position by degree, you'll want to select option 31 from the "table settings" selection, called "Obs eclip. lon & lat" (observed ecliptic longitude and latitude) and the data will be output in decimal form.

This is also an quick way to get positions for obscure objects not available in most astrology software, if you're like me and get curious about weird little chunks of rock way the heck out there in the scattered disk, lol.

I would simply consider it retrograde, since it had not made it's direct station quite yet at your birth. I'm not sure it's neccessary to consider anything else, aside from that fact that it's essentially stationary, barely moving... Even that results in a wide range of varying interpretations depending on who you ask. What Lunar Pisces mentioned is quite interesting indeed!

You can be our test case for stationary Saturn!

 

[sequestra]

Hi,

I was wondering what the difference between a stationary-direct saturn and a stationary-retrograde saturn would be? And also, what's the difference between stationary-retrograde and just plain retrograde?

Cheers!

 

[selfless]

a retrograde Saturn can give results a bit delayed, but with nearly double impact, be it good or bad..but not at proper time..

 

[sequestra]

Thanks that helps. I have also heard that retrograde turns it inward - its effects occur within.

According to some threads I've read, "stationary" intensifies the influence, but I was wondering about "stationary-direct" and "stationary-retrograde", and if these produced variant effects?

I just can't seem to find this information anywhere else at the moment, sorry.

 

[may28gemini]

Someone wrote about how stationary planets works:

A stationary retrograde planet is digging it's heels in and refusing to make any further progress until what's already been done has been reviewed and revisited. A stationary direct planet refuses to take any further steps back and is commited to moving forward on it's path, but needs to be still and gather energy and momentum before it can do that.

As such from my understanding the native with a stationary retrograde placement may sometimes feel that they are constantly reviewing the same old material, or perhaps they feel as though they wish to continue to live in the past...

[edited quote over 100 words - Moderator - from: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081007101432AAtqngN ]
I have stationary direct Libra Saturn in Scorpio duad... on the AC! I am very committed to my Saturnine qualities because it is very pronounced.

 

[charmvirgo]

Thanks (can I call you May for short?)

I think I am strongly influenced by my stationary retrograde Saturn. My birthtime is only a time range and not positively known, but it is possible I have it in 1st house or on AC according to the time my mother thought I was born.

I am very much someone who does not advance or change much in personality (but I am forward thinking in outside worldly matters). I go over the past again and again on a daily basis and would prefer to go back to my past where I used to be happy when all my family was still alive.

I have lived all my life in the same home where I was born and I was born at home in the bedroom where I sleep now. I have past memories all around me and possessions that remind me of my past. I am very set in my ways - my habits, my likes/dislikes, the places I go, the things I do, the type of clothes I wear, have not really changed since I was a child, I am very consistent in personality.

the rest of your quote:
... while the stationary direct individual will feel as though they are being held back by circumstances which do not seem to change. It's not a matter of reliving with stationary direct, it's more a matter of being stuck in a rut and seemingly never changing. Also, the stationary direct individual can be quite committed to whatever the placement is representing.

May, with your stationary direct Saturn, do you feel that you are stuck on moving forward, even when you would like to do so and are commited to it? Does this affect you in a personal way or your personality being on AC?

 

[may28gemini]

Hi, Charming. So you have stationary retrograde Saturn in Capricorn? I often wondered about people who Rx or stationary Rx Saturn if that means they often repeat moral lessons in life. Is your Saturn in early degrees? If so, I think that adds more "power" to your Saturn which probably adds to your cautiousness and feeling "isolated."

Although the descriptions of that little blurb about stationary Rx/direct planets is fairly well written, I can't say I agree with it much aside from the part that it adds more power/commitment to my planet (in this case Saturn).

Fortunately for me, I haven't had to "repeat" lessons. I have stationary direct Libra Saturn... if I was born a few days later, I would have absolute direct Saturn. In most ways, my Saturn acts like it's direct because it's on the AC and so the world definitely will come into contact with my Saturnine side (whether they want to or not!)

In my life, I've changed a lot, moved around a lot, constantly evolving, leaving previous stuff behind and starting new very frequently... so I am not ever "stuck in a rut." If anything, I'm always fearful of being in a rut!! So the way that my Saturn on the AC works is that it not only enhances how Libra Saturn would act... but it amplifies the cardinal/moveable energy... I'm always an initiator- for better or worse (often for "better"). My peers look up to me as a leader and someone who's of sound mind and judgement. I get along with older people really well. Those who are younger than me (like my students when I was teaching in grad school) looked up to me as an honorable and fair "authority" figure. I do feel like a lot of times, I'm seen as a teacher in general as I often get asked for "advice" (by anyone, even strangers). I am actually quite cautious (still Saturn) with what I say to people because so many have trust me with their personal information (I wish I didn't attract so many like that). To be honest, I didn't recognize some of the finest benefits of having exalted Saturn on the AC until after my Saturn's return.

 

[charmvirgo]

Hi May

Saturn remained at the same position of 11deg49min for several days. So it was not in early degrees. (At my birth on 13 September it was at 11deg49min28sec hardly moving, but it continued to move backwards by another 14 seconds until 15 September before turning direct.)

I think I would describe myself as feeling like I "have always been" - I always was, I always am, I always will be, like past present and future rolled into one. Like when you are comfortable in your own skin, or to some it may seem like I have just found my 'rut' in terms of being and expressing who I am. I think Saturn affects me in terms of personality and I just stay where I am in characteristics, but that also affects everything I do and how I do it.

I don't think I repeat the same lessons over and over again. I am very attached to my past because I have lost all my loved ones and I was happier there, and so the one big lesson that I still relive every day in my heart (non repeating as the lesson itself did not happen over and over) is that I regret a few things I said that I didn't mean. My home is good for practical and financial reasons as well as having all my memories there, and it is better than anything I could ever find anywhere else in my circumstances so does not warrant moving. If I found something better I would be willing to move.

Unlike you I am definitely not an initiator. Nobody really notices me let alone comes to me for advice or looks up to me etc, I am very low profile. I keep to myself, I don't express myself outwardly very much, I am all internal and I don't seek company or external stimulus. I do like to expand in knowledge and philosophy and I find some pleasure in artwork.

 

[may28gemini]

With what you've described about how Capricorn Saturn manifests in your life and personality, it feels to me to be so lonesome and dreadfully isolating. I could never live or function that way! You sound like you are content with that energy and put it to constructive use of solitary scholastic investigation and developing some artistic sentiments.

The only Saturn energy I know intimately is my own- Libra and it's 3 degrees so it's very early. I get very insecure and sad without socializing and reaching out to others. I also immensely enjoy when others reach out to me and feel flattered that others think of me to reach out.

Having Saturn on the AC, I am still pretty unassuming. I think that I'm not important or that I'm not memorable. It surprises me when people trust what I say to them because I could just very well lie and tell them really messed up stuff... but I don't, well, not to people who sincerely ask for my feedback. I am still very mischievous and will say horrible things to people as a joke (not out of malice) but maybe that's Saturn's BAD sense of humor by poking fun at difficulties as a way of diffusing tension saying, "nothing's perfect so might as well get use to what's reality." To most people, they view that as me putting salt on the wound so I use to be more self-conscious of that.

Strangely enough, during my Saturn's return I learned to NOT care about how others view me and have more or less determined that if people can't handle the realistic components of life and if they get hurt when I say very real things... oh well... I'm not taking responsibility for others to grow up. This decision has rendered me to rely more on myself for social comfort because, in reality, who would want someone (like me) to rain on their parade? I've had to cope with being alone for long stretches at a time so there's good ole Saturn maximizing his influence on me.

I have to say, I'm definitely relieved I've gotten over my BIGGEST fear- being alone. That's Libra Saturn's lesson. I've spent all my life worrying about being alone, what the heck could I do being alone, bending over backwards to not be alone, maintained friendships that sucked the life force out of me for the sake some companionship, feeling like I'd be NOTHING if I was alone... and when my Saturn's return came, I got divorced and felt like I had died. In one big swoop, I lost all my previous relations and had to mentally wrap myself around the concept of overcoming "grief." Spending my Saturn's return coping with being alone, learning self reliance, not having anyone comfort me... that was extremely TOUGH! I would NOT wish anyone to go through what I went through during my Saturn's return, not even on the most annoying person I've ever met! But still, I'm glad I went through what I did, probably because it had to happen so it's good I got that sh*t out of the way.

I think Capricorn Saturn's biggest fear is being joined/melded with others. Do you think you've overcome your biggest fear?

 

[Zarathu]

There is no such thing as a stationary planet. That was only a consideration when the ephemeri only showed the days. Now we have ephemeri that show seconds.

I have one.

I can tell you to the second when Saturn went RX and when He went direct. Do you want to know when to the second that Saturn went direct?

Saturn went direct on exactly 9-15-1960, at 11:46:13 PM

 

[IleneK]

There is no such thing as a stationary planet. That was only a consideration when the ephemeri only showed the days. Now we have ephemeri that show seconds.

I have one.

I can tell you to the second when Saturn when RX and when He went direct. Do you want to know when to the second that Saturn went direct?

Saturn went direct on exactly 9-15-1960, at 11:46:13 PM

Indeed, there are no stationary planets.

I do believe forum members may be referring to a planet stationing to direct or stationing to retrograde, rather than stationary retrograde.

And when it is stationing, it is moving more and more slowly until it changes direction.

 

[gilly1111]

Hi, Charming. So you have stationary retrograde Saturn in Capricorn? I often wondered about people who Rx or stationary Rx Saturn if that means they often repeat moral lessons in life. Is your Saturn in early degrees? If so, I think that adds more "power" to your Saturn which probably adds to your cautiousness and feeling "isolated."

Although the descriptions of that little blurb about stationary Rx/direct planets is fairly well written, I can't say I agree with it much aside from the part that it adds more power/commitment to my planet (in this case Saturn).

Fortunately for me, I haven't had to "repeat" lessons. I have stationary direct Libra Saturn... if I was born a few days later, I would have absolute direct Saturn. In most ways, my Saturn acts like it's direct because it's on the AC and so the world definitely will come into contact with my Saturnine side (whether they want to or not!)

In my life, I've changed a lot, moved around a lot, constantly evolving, leaving previous stuff behind and starting new very frequently... so I am not ever "stuck in a rut." If anything, I'm always fearful of being in a rut!! So the way that my Saturn on the AC works is that it not only enhances how Libra Saturn would act... but it amplifies the cardinal/moveable energy... I'm always an initiator- for better or worse (often for "better"). My peers look up to me as a leader and someone who's of sound mind and judgement. I get along with older people really well. Those who are younger than me (like my students when I was teaching in grad school) looked up to me as an honorable and fair "authority" figure. I do feel like a lot of times, I'm seen as a teacher in general as I often get asked for "advice" (by anyone, even strangers). I am actually quite cautious (still Saturn) with what I say to people because so many have trust me with their personal information (I wish I didn't attract so many like that). To be honest, I didn't recognize some of the finest benefits of having exalted Saturn on the AC until after my Saturn's return.

May I have to tell you that your description fit's me to the point as if I wrote it myself. My saturn is stationary retrograde conjunct DC in Gemini. 6th house.
So much upheaval in my life but in a great way. So many experiences abroad and moving as well as working. I seem to get jobs I shouldn't get on paper and I feel like there is something pushing me and opening up doors that should be shut.
I find myself these past 18 months now awake and purging the darkness. Stagnation and no work during this period has highlighted this trait within incredibly.
I know it's an old post but I wanted to add.