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Predictive Astrology
Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrology
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<blockquote data-quote="Paul_" data-source="post: 507054" data-attributes="member: 30655"><p>Great, but modern methods does not preclude prediction either of course, even if the nature of what is predicted changes - often the changes are psychological or 'spiritual' in outlook rather than event driven.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps, but unlike your example, the OP isn't so unreal it's almost laughable. It happens all the time. It's happening right now on this forum. It happens in real life too. So whilst I understand that we can't address every single thing hypothetically, we can offer our feedback on what we ourselves do or don't do and why. Unless you're saying that you've never been asked a romance question in your capacity as an astrologer, then this situation will also be very real to you too. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Waybread are you suggesting that the issue of morality cannot be commented on one way or another without reference to a case by case example and if so what makes this particular application of morality different from other ones? Obviously people, yourself included, do talk about issues pertaining to morality in general terms and not just case by case.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By your choice, my point is that it doesn't make the OP inapt.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I appreciate you don't do much horary off line, but imagine instead that you did (if you can) as this subject matter is not just for online readings. When someone comes to you and asks a question, do you think "this is a question that they've come to an astrologer to seek guidance with" or do you think "I don't do horary". What determines whether you, as the astrologer, opt to use horary, a natal predictive technique etc.?</p><p></p><p>Really the difference online is that, as far as I'm concerned, when you post up a horary chart you are saying "I am the astrologer for this question" and therefore you are the one who has responsibility for answering it. Everyone else can chime in and give advice, but it's your chart, not ours. </p><p></p><p>The question still becomes however, what is the determinant for why something is immoral. If a person comes to an astrologer for ANY reason is it immoral for that person to address their issues astrologically and if not why not? You do 'modern astrology' but what does this mean in relation to morality, if someone comes to you and asks about relationship issues, what do you do? Are you qualified to do that with potentially vulnerable people?</p><p></p><p>We need not necessarily predict to run into issues of morality and where the line lies, but you yourself predict likely and unlikely times. Is this not similarly immoral? If not why not? Why is predicting something vaguely any better than predicting something with more focus - is the criterion going to be accuracy? Are you predicting vaguely because you do not feel accuracy is possible? Is the constraint of what you deem possible the criterion for whether a thing is moral or not?</p><p></p><p>I think these are all really important questions for us to answer so that we can fine tune where our moral 'line' is drawn, and, more importantly (imo) <strong>why</strong> we draw the lines there.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I appreciate you do not do horary but I strongly disagree with this view. As someone who does both, often together, I can honestly hand on heart say that it is much quicker and easier to get a very quick snapshot of the mindest of the querent from a horary than from a natal chart which stays static throughout the entirety of a person's life. You need to apply 'filters' of information to the nativity such as progressions, transits, directions etc. or some combination of them to achieve it with a nativity. With a horary you already have it in just the one chart. I have yet to see, for example, a horary where the main significator(s) for the querent are in detriment/fall and they are not in some way ill at ease either physically or mentally. I normally say that it shows a sickness of mind or body with regards the question when you see it. You can tell very quickly. When you see how the ascendant is, and what is in it and what aspect it and the lord of the ascendant, and then the separating aspects of the Moon as well, we can very very quickly sum up the basic mindset and 'situation' of our querent, and, if you were so inclined, can even, often with great accuracy, describe their appearance.</p><p></p><p>Whilst I appreciate you do not do horary, I would just caution about contrasting the two in terms of efficacy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually horary doesn't do anything at all. Horary ASTROLGOERS on the other hand may or may not. THe whole purpose of horary is to address specific concerns and offer guidance and feedback on how the querent can navigate those concerns. The level to which you want to take that depends entirely on the astrologer. You could quite happily, as I have done in the past, have a kind of 'counselling' (though I shudder to use the term) session based just on the horary. Bear in mind, just to offer you another way of thinking about this, very often the horary chart will also be a kind of consultation chart as well.</p><p></p><p>In any event one can use the natal chart for forecasting and once again it's up to the astrologer, not the astrology, whether that becomes fortune telling or not. </p><p></p><p>In any even with regards your comment of giving likely or unlikely times, that is exactly what many horary astrologers say. Someone may ask "will I fall in love by Christmas next year" - you could use a nativity and examine transits and progressions and conclude that it's unlikely. Someone else could examine a horary and conclude that it's unlikely.</p><p></p><p>The methods we use to get there shouldn't be the determinants for whether a thing is moral or immoral and we shouldn't project conclusions that one form of prediction is, by necessity, likely to degenerate into fortune telling and another is unlikely to. The only criterion which determines how astrology is used is the astrologer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course, but when she goes home will you have actually answered her question? Does that matter? I guess what we need to address is whether or not you feel it's actually possible to answer the question "Will I get married by 2015" even if only in terms of likelihood?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Paul_, post: 507054, member: 30655"] Great, but modern methods does not preclude prediction either of course, even if the nature of what is predicted changes - often the changes are psychological or 'spiritual' in outlook rather than event driven. Perhaps, but unlike your example, the OP isn't so unreal it's almost laughable. It happens all the time. It's happening right now on this forum. It happens in real life too. So whilst I understand that we can't address every single thing hypothetically, we can offer our feedback on what we ourselves do or don't do and why. Unless you're saying that you've never been asked a romance question in your capacity as an astrologer, then this situation will also be very real to you too. Waybread are you suggesting that the issue of morality cannot be commented on one way or another without reference to a case by case example and if so what makes this particular application of morality different from other ones? Obviously people, yourself included, do talk about issues pertaining to morality in general terms and not just case by case. By your choice, my point is that it doesn't make the OP inapt. I appreciate you don't do much horary off line, but imagine instead that you did (if you can) as this subject matter is not just for online readings. When someone comes to you and asks a question, do you think "this is a question that they've come to an astrologer to seek guidance with" or do you think "I don't do horary". What determines whether you, as the astrologer, opt to use horary, a natal predictive technique etc.? Really the difference online is that, as far as I'm concerned, when you post up a horary chart you are saying "I am the astrologer for this question" and therefore you are the one who has responsibility for answering it. Everyone else can chime in and give advice, but it's your chart, not ours. The question still becomes however, what is the determinant for why something is immoral. If a person comes to an astrologer for ANY reason is it immoral for that person to address their issues astrologically and if not why not? You do 'modern astrology' but what does this mean in relation to morality, if someone comes to you and asks about relationship issues, what do you do? Are you qualified to do that with potentially vulnerable people? We need not necessarily predict to run into issues of morality and where the line lies, but you yourself predict likely and unlikely times. Is this not similarly immoral? If not why not? Why is predicting something vaguely any better than predicting something with more focus - is the criterion going to be accuracy? Are you predicting vaguely because you do not feel accuracy is possible? Is the constraint of what you deem possible the criterion for whether a thing is moral or not? I think these are all really important questions for us to answer so that we can fine tune where our moral 'line' is drawn, and, more importantly (imo) [b]why[/b] we draw the lines there. I appreciate you do not do horary but I strongly disagree with this view. As someone who does both, often together, I can honestly hand on heart say that it is much quicker and easier to get a very quick snapshot of the mindest of the querent from a horary than from a natal chart which stays static throughout the entirety of a person's life. You need to apply 'filters' of information to the nativity such as progressions, transits, directions etc. or some combination of them to achieve it with a nativity. With a horary you already have it in just the one chart. I have yet to see, for example, a horary where the main significator(s) for the querent are in detriment/fall and they are not in some way ill at ease either physically or mentally. I normally say that it shows a sickness of mind or body with regards the question when you see it. You can tell very quickly. When you see how the ascendant is, and what is in it and what aspect it and the lord of the ascendant, and then the separating aspects of the Moon as well, we can very very quickly sum up the basic mindset and 'situation' of our querent, and, if you were so inclined, can even, often with great accuracy, describe their appearance. Whilst I appreciate you do not do horary, I would just caution about contrasting the two in terms of efficacy. Actually horary doesn't do anything at all. Horary ASTROLGOERS on the other hand may or may not. THe whole purpose of horary is to address specific concerns and offer guidance and feedback on how the querent can navigate those concerns. The level to which you want to take that depends entirely on the astrologer. You could quite happily, as I have done in the past, have a kind of 'counselling' (though I shudder to use the term) session based just on the horary. Bear in mind, just to offer you another way of thinking about this, very often the horary chart will also be a kind of consultation chart as well. In any event one can use the natal chart for forecasting and once again it's up to the astrologer, not the astrology, whether that becomes fortune telling or not. In any even with regards your comment of giving likely or unlikely times, that is exactly what many horary astrologers say. Someone may ask "will I fall in love by Christmas next year" - you could use a nativity and examine transits and progressions and conclude that it's unlikely. Someone else could examine a horary and conclude that it's unlikely. The methods we use to get there shouldn't be the determinants for whether a thing is moral or immoral and we shouldn't project conclusions that one form of prediction is, by necessity, likely to degenerate into fortune telling and another is unlikely to. The only criterion which determines how astrology is used is the astrologer. Of course, but when she goes home will you have actually answered her question? Does that matter? I guess what we need to address is whether or not you feel it's actually possible to answer the question "Will I get married by 2015" even if only in terms of likelihood? [/QUOTE]
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Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrology
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