Realizing your ascendant and house orientation is all wrong

[waybread]

http://www.astrofaces.com/astrofaces/index.html

For anyone who is interested in matching physical appearance with rising sign, the above site may be interesting.

 

[JUPITERASC]

WeCareALot, the first house is useful for rectification purposes
simply because
the Main Rulerships of First House are:


'......Life, vitality and health.

Stature
colour
complexion
form and shape of body

Older sources note its influence upon the intellect, the way the mind works, and speech.

In general, the first house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.

As well as describing the physical appearance
the condition of the First House
and that of its planetary ruler
indicates the level of personal vitality and strength......' source Deborah Houlding 'HOUSES TEMPLES OF THE SKY' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html

so WeCareALot, do consider your physical appearance
when delineating the First House of your natal chart

By the way
useful insight as to how planetary aspects affect the appearance is discussed by
RON BIPPUS' forty year research project
on the INFLUENCE OF THE RISING DECANATE ON PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
via an article detailing his findings at
http://reocities.com/athens/delphi/1601/physical.html
which includes illustrations of the theory using celebrity natal charts

 

[JUPITERASC]

The ascendant is a perennially intriguing subject
and
a KEY FACTOR to keep in mind

is

even within the same race
there are differences of skin tone and eye colour

It's not unusual for children of the same race
to be fairer
or darker complexioned
than their siblings.

So within the race of white/whitish people
some siblings are darker/lighter complexioned than others

and

likewise within the race of black/blackish people
some siblings are darker/lighter complexioned than others

THEREFORE

WeCareALot, when for example considering RON BIPPUS research http://reocities.com/athens/delphi/1601/physical.html

Focusing on

height
weight
bone structure
eye color

gives overall good results

Black people with Blue eyes and other ethnicities
Parts 1 and 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhW7rR6VDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCPBpCWm89Y

 

[poyi]

I think myself kind whitish for my race but can get very dark if under the sun for very very long time. I have Venus in 1st for Placidus trine Moon in 5th both planet represents lighter skin tone from memory. Even I am not naturally born red hair. With Mars in 1st house trine Moon, I do dye my hair to very dark tone chestnut brown/raspberry red which is a lot more brilliant red under direct sunlight. Many people do appreciate my red hair. Naturally thick and shiny straight hair which is not the usual thin hair like regular Virgo rising as per textbook.

 

[JUPITERASC]

I think myself kind whitish for my race but can get very dark if under the sun for very very long time. I have Venus in 1st for Placidus trine Moon in 5th both planet represents lighter skin tone from memory. Even I am not naturally born red hair. With Mars in 1st house trine Moon, I do dye my hair to very dark tone chestnut brown/raspberry red which is a lot more brilliant red under direct sunlight. Many people do appreciate my red hair. Naturally thick and shiny straight hair which is not the usual thin hair like regular Virgo rising as per textbook.

Physical descriptions offered for Mars http://www.skyscript.co.uk/marsatt.html


100 WORD QUOTE

'…...Generally middle stature
strong bodies
big bones
more lean than fat
complexion of a brown, ruddy colour,
or of a high colour
their visage round
their hair red or sandy flaxen
and many times crisping or curling.

Sharp, hazel eyes, and they piercing
a bold, confident countenance
and the man active and fearless.

WHEN MARS IS ORIENTAL
he signifies valiant men,
some white mixed with the redness,
a decent tallness of body,
hairy of his body.

Occidental;
very ruddy complexioned
but mean in stature
little head
a smooth body, and not hairy
yellow hair
stiff,
the natural humours generally more dry......'

These physical significations for Mars
ARE MODIFIED
by the sign location of Mars
As well as by aspects
made by and to Mars
relative to other natal planets

 

[JUPITERASC]

WHEN ASSESSING ASCENDANT AND ASPECTING PLANETS FOR DELINEATING PHYSICAL APPEARANCE

GLOSSARY OF TERMS http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/oriental.html


Oriental

and

Occidental

'….....'occident' = Latin term for west
originally meaning 'falling', 'setting' or 'perishing' (as in sunset);


'orient' = Latin term for east
originally meaning 'rising' or 'emerging', (as in sunrise).


A planet 'oriental of the Sun' precedes the Sun in diurnal motion
and appears in the east in the morning, rising before Sun.

If 'occidental of the Sun' it follows the sun by diurnal motion,
and comes into view after sunset

a planet 'oriental in the figure'
is located near the ascendant which is the eastern angle
Planet 'occidental in the figure'
is located near descendant
which is the western angle....'



' Occidental hemisphere is the western/setting hemisphere, incorporating the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th houses.

Oriental hemisphere - the eastern/rising hemisphere, incorporating the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 12th, and 11th houses.....'



'…..Occidental quarter - the quadrant of the chart that falls beneath the western horizon, incorporating the 4th, 5th and 6th houses. Also known as the phlegmatic quarter.


Oriental quarter - the quadrant of the chart that rises from the eastern horizon, incorporating the 1st, 12th and 11th houses. Also known as the sanguine quarter......'

 

[JUPITERASC]

WeCareALot, when delineating physical appearance
consider also
the planet that has the most essential dignity at the place of the ascendant degree
and its house and sign location and aspects

Dodekatemorion of planets on the ascendant
When more than one planet occupies the ascendant
then it is necessary to decide which is the stronger

HOW TO PROCEED WHEN TWO OR MORE PLANETS OCCUPY A HOUSE http://www.forumonastrology.com/foa/newmain.html

 

[waybread]

JA and Poyi, did you check out the faces on the astroface website I linked above? I wonder how you would make out with a "blind" reading of the pictures.

 

[JUPITERASC]

WeCareALot, keep in mind when considering RON BIPPUS forty year research project detailed at http://reocities.com/athens/delphi/1601/physical.html

that focusing on

height
weight
bone structure
eye color

gives overall good results

Black people with Blue eyes and other ethnicities
Parts 1 and 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhW7rR6VDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCPBpCWm89Y


ALSO WeCareALot, since you have an APPROXIMATE time of birth, based on the recollections of members of your family, then the Pre-Natal Epoch Rectification Method is another option.

The RON BIPPUS illustrations of celebrity photographs, used in tandem with results provided by The Pre-Natal Epoch is another useful astrological avenue to explore

detailed instructions on precisely how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method may be viewed FOR FREE at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm

 

[byjove]

WeCareALot - my short answer is that yes, I experienced exactly the same thing. In the end, I decided to write away for the official birth time. I know that sometimes a minor discprepency is still possible, but it's likely far more reliable than recollections many years later, that was my thinking. As it happens, I think the focus on life areas is better reflected in my hospital-time chart, than my mother's.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Wow, so after questioning my mother for about 35 minutes, I realized that there's a big probability my birth time is different--thereby making my ascendant and house orientation different as well. I previously thought my birth time was 7pm based on my mother's initial recollection. She thought I had been born in the evening, around 6 or 7pm. But based on events surrounding my birth (the fact that I was born after my grandmother started her 3pm shift at the hospital and before my Mom's friends came to visit her after leaving their jobs at 5pm), it looks like I was born between 3 and 5pm. By my Mom's best guess, it was around 3:30pm.

What this really demonstrates is that I need a proper copy of my birth certificate so that this speculation can be laid to rest. But it's interesting to consider the differences between a 7PM birth chart and one between 3 and 5pm. My rising sign changes from Libra to Virgo, and the house orientation puts my Sun and Venus in the 8th house, my Moon in the 2nd, Mercury in the 7th, Mars and Jupiter in the 10th, Sat/Nep/Uran in the 5th, and Pluto in the 3rd. My Midheaven also switches from Cancer to late Taurus. Pretty different from what I thought before. (3:30pm birth chart attached)

Has anyone else experienced this before? Or do you all have definite birth times?

byjove has some good advice based on experience

WeCareALot - my short answer is that yes, I experienced exactly the same thing. In the end, I decided to write away for the official birth time. I know that sometimes a minor discprepency is still possible, but it's likely far more reliable than recollections many years later, that was my thinking. As it happens, I think the focus on life areas is better reflected in my hospital-time chart, than my mother's.

HOWEVER
keep in mind
that it is prudent to test the various ancient techniques
using the official time of birth as the basis

 

[poyi]

I recently got a copy of Judith A. Hill, The Astrological Body Types: Face, Form and Expression (revised and expanded version), 226 pages a small book with lot of goodies.

http://www.amazon.com/Astrological-Expression-Revised-Expanded-Edition/dp/0945685211

To introduce this book, I will list some of the table of contents out, they can speak for themselves.

Building Blocks of Astrophysiognomy
The Face in General
The Elements and Modes
Beginner's Checklist
Planetary Dignities & Debilities
The Zodiac Sign Types for all 12 zodiacs
The Planetary Types for Sun to Pluto
Summary: Interrelation of Thoughts, Feelings, & Physical Forms
Lunar Nodes and Physical Appearance
Karma and Physical Anomaly
Example of Personalities

Appendix
Zodiacal Correspondences to the Human Body
The 36 Decanates
Redheads and Mars
Sect-Day or Night Birth
Medical Elements

List of Tables & Figures
Principles of Astrophyiognomy
Signification of Physical Appearance in the Birth Chart
Condition for Planetary Strength
Chart of Planetary Dignities and Debilities
The 36 Decanates

Appendix of
Redheads Mars:
Strong and Weak Mars
Mars Distribution
Strong Weak Zone Var.
Two American Groups
Two Uk Groups
Mars Equal House Sect

Judith Hill is an award winning life time astrologer, lecturer, she had completed approximately 9000 personal chart readings for persons of diverse nations and professions. Hills also achieved 100% accuracy in the matching of five anonymous birth charts to biographies in a 1989 skeptic-designed NCGR sponsored challenge. She is specialized in many branches of Classical Western Astrology including: Vocation, Medical, Natal, transit-progressed, horary, spiritual, location, electional, fertility, couples analysis, and traditional gem selection. She is also a scholar of palmistry, feng shui, sculpture, history, anthropology, comparative theology and in Chartered Herbalist with Dominion Herbal College.

I first aware of her from the discussion of lunar node with dr farr long back, since then I had collected several of her books. Her books are easy to read, no jargon even a newbie can learn easily from her. Her books are also often rather low price but it offering much better simplistic accurate tools than those other authors using all those complex languages yet delivered very little. She uses table and figures, drawing, and symbols to illustrate complex meaning in very simple pictures.

For people with major doubt of their birth time, analyzing your planets as per Day or Night Sect, also oriental or Occidental can really minimizing your time range for considering possible birth time. Extremely helpful.

 

[waybread]

There may be a short-cut for anyone seriously interested in rectification: Polaris software. See the following exchange on Skyscript:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85818#85818

No takers on the astrofaces, linked above?

 

[Childofmars]

Yes firstly I thought I was Libra rising. I mistakenly thought you had to set your rising sign from 2 noon lol. I then asked my mother and she thought I was born at 7pm. Which made me Sag rising. I didn't question it but certainly didn't ever truly connect with it. SOOO... Eventually it turns out I was born at 4:20 which made ma a Scorpio rising. I was born with Forceps, bloody, difficult birth, even stopped breathing, and to top it off the only person by my mothers bedside whilst I was being born was her sister. Who just so happens to be a Scorpio, My mind was blown when I discovered this. My birth scene recreated the heavens.

 

[poyi]

Thank you for you information of such an interesting birth scene. Cause your birth chart is also the event of the moment of the location you were at.

I have Virgo rising, ruled by 3rd Mercury in Scorpio, sextile 1st house Mars in Virgo, while Moon also trine and exalted Mars from 5th house Moon also sextile Mercury so a small sextile-trine-sextile triangle. My mum descried my birth as very very little pain and extremely fast birth. My mum gave birth without anyone's help and no one was even around cause the midwife didn't expect it to be that fast.

 

[poyi]

Physical descriptions offered for Mars http://www.skyscript.co.uk/marsatt.html


100 WORD QUOTE

'…...Generally middle stature
strong bodies
big bones
more lean than fat
complexion of a brown, ruddy colour,
or of a high colour
their visage round
their hair red or sandy flaxen
and many times crisping or curling.

Sharp, hazel eyes, and they piercing
a bold, confident countenance
and the man active and fearless.

WHEN MARS IS ORIENTAL
he signifies valiant men,
some white mixed with the redness,
a decent tallness of body,
hairy of his body.

Occidental;
very ruddy complexioned
but mean in stature
little head
a smooth body, and not hairy
yellow hair
stiff,
the natural humours generally more dry......'

These physical significations for Mars
ARE MODIFIED
by the sign location of Mars
As well as by aspects
made by and to Mars
relative to other natal planets

I read the skyscript link and along with Judith Hills book. I always fascinate of red hair since I was a kid long before I started studying astrology. Many times want to dye my own hair but family won't allow. Until much older age like 2-3 years ago when I had the Saturn transit to AC, I changed my appearance and got myself hair dye to dye very dark chestnut, dark raspberry, cherry, wine kind of red. I also have tidy freckles on my face, mainly cheekbones and nose which is unusual for Asian. As what Judith Hill researched, red hair, freckles, bleeding and bruises, cuts, scars. I often bleed for a long time and easily get bruises from physical cause or from taking anti inflammatory medication. Very easy bleeder and I have scars mostly in my arms, Mars mutual reception with Mercury in 3rd house.

In actual life, people always tell me to slow down with my thoughts and speech. I talk and think very fast. Or simply skipping many steps to tell you what I think after a long but fast analysis in the head. But usually they don't get me so I still have to explain the whole lot. I am not particularly intelligent but just faster than average with my thoughts and speech.

I don't have big bones could be because of Mercury and Virgo condition. I don't look fat even when I do actually is fat. I have this benefit of always looking 10kg lighter than the actual weight. Cause muscle is a lot heavier than fat. I may have my curves from the nocturnal Moon and Venus, Scorpio water sign and Jupiter ruler of fat.

 

[Shanti]

Poyi wrote:

I recently got a copy of Judith A. Hill, The Astrological Body Types: Face, Form and Expression (revised and expanded version), 226 pages a small book with lot of goodies.

I am also a fan...
Got several of her books.
In the book of body types I recently looked up the scorpio type while studying Goebbels chart. Goebbels have a Leo ascendant with a four planet stellium in scorpio with the sun in scorpio as ruler of ascendant.
Strikingly in that particular case.