Random Thoughts, strictly Text

conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
You could contact him and ask him. From what he said in some articles, he gets contacted frequently and is willing to address the issues that people ask him. Although now I notice that he's now monetized his blog through Patreon so who knows what he will share or won't for free.

Here's another Planetary ranking that is unique to him. He says that it is calibrated through a specific methodology checked against a number of spiritual mythologies that feel intuitively correct to him. The first commenter says that it's similar to the three worlds of Norse tradition, the tree of Yggdrasil: Niflhelm, Midgard and Asgard.
https://chirotic.com/2011/11/03/the-player-of-games/#more-1327

A kindred soul of yours? I'm sure you can appreciate the innovative spirit. You might find corresponding with him fruitful and inspiring for your own astrological process.

I know you have Pluto weakened in Sagittarius in 12/12. Contrary to him. A discussion with him might be in order.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
conspiracy theorist said:
You could contact him and ask him. From what he said in some articles, he gets contacted frequently and is willing to address the issues that people ask him. Although now I notice that he's now monetized his blog through Patreon so who knows what he will share or won't for free.

Here's another Planetary ranking that is unique to him. He says that it is calibrated through a specific methodology checked against a number of spiritual mythologies that feel intuitively correct to him. The first commenter says that it's similar to the three worlds of Norse tradition, the tree of Yggdrasil: Niflhelm, Midgard and Asgard.
https://chirotic.com/2011/11/03/the-player-of-games/#more-1327

A kindred soul of yours? I'm sure you can appreciate the innovative spirit. You might find corresponding with him fruitful and inspiring for your own astrological process.

I know you have Pluto weakened in Sagittarius in 12/12. Contrary to him. A discussion with him might be in order.
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Seems like it would at least be stronger in the Sign it Domicile-rules than a Sign of a different Modality and Element from its Domicile-sign.
I'm using Sumero-Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greco-Roman religions. The Norse tradition relates more to ancient rune stones than astrology in my experience. I'll see if there's a layout as to how his patterns are arranged.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Well, nothing informative about Jeremy Neal on the Ages, or his basis for determining planetary strength. Wondering if any of our own Brits know much about him. He's definitely a real pro at what he does. Says his grandfather was an astrologer, and started teaching him when he was 12 years of age.
 
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Ukpoohbear

Ukpoohbear

Well-known member
Oh I just searched who Jeremy Neal was, I’ve came across the Chirotic Journal a couple of times and found the articles to be good. I made a note to make use of it regularly but found the site difficult to navigate or become involved with. Didn’t know he was a Brit and don’t really know anything about him.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
passiflora said:
Would be good to know. Even if the method is intuitive it’s helpful to be taken along for the ride.

Defining terms would help too, like what is strength exactly? If for example the planet is somewhere it’s unhappy, like rising Pluto, it can’t necessarily access its perceived strength.

It’s an interesting thought that a tenanted Scorpio could make plutonic energy easier to deal with, and assessing that claim might take some kind of phenomenological inquiry - if Pluto wants to be hidden, it can’t be judged shallowly by statistical comparison.
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"Strength" is too vague a term. Jeremy does say that a stronger placement isn't necessarily a better one.
I've already determined that Mars in Taurus, for example, is an extremely noticeable influence. In Trad, it's in detriment by essential Dignity, since it's Domiciled in the opposite Sign, Scorpio. In 12/12, it's the opposite of Exalted, since Mars is Exalted in Scorpio.
I also notice that I made a mistake when I said Pluto should be stronger in its Domicile-sign than in a Sign which shares neither Modality nor Element with Fixed-Water; in this case, Sagittarius. Because, that's exactly the situation with all of the Exalted placements in 12/12: Pluto is Exalted in Gemini, different Element and Modality than its Domicile-sign, Scorpio. Which means it's what Trad calls, "in its Fall" in Sagittarius, just as Mars in Taurus is "in its Fall" (if I were to use that terminology) in 12/12.
Here's a thought--maybe an afflicted placement has to compensate with an increase in strength, to make its influence felt. Same thing might apply to affliction due to accidental debilities.
"Noticeable" influence might be a better description than "strong". Pluto in Scorpio is a match, and blends in nicely, whereas Pluto in Sagittarius is a mismatch, and stands out for that reason.
 
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david starling

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Following that train of thought, I've wondered why Asc in Scorpio usually stands out so clearly. In 12/12, the Ascendant is a Benefactor when it's in Taurus, which means it's an afflicted placement in Scorpio. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the exact opposite of a Benefactor in Scorpio--just, not inclined to be helpful, yet demands to be recognized.
Here's another one: The Sun in Aquarius has to rise to the challenge of being "in its Detriment" when in Aquarius, and is quite noticeable. :biggrin:
 
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david starling

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passiflora said:
I agree about Mars in Taurus.
What does Pluto do in Gemini that would exalt it there in 12/12?
It moves so slowly seems difficult to assess its behavior in Signs, the way it’s possible with houses.
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I trust the 12/12 pattern, and look for affirmation in the Greco-Roman religions. The Domicle-ruler of Gemini, Hermes/Mercury, was in service to Pluto. The pattern for Exaltation involves the transition of one Sign to the next, in Direct order. For this one, it's the changeover from Aquarius to Pisces. Pluto is Domicle-ruler of Fixed-Water; Aquarius is a Fixed-sign which transforms into a Water-sign, and the Modality of Scorpio makes Pluto the Regulating-ruler of Aquarius. Then, Gemini has the Element of Aquarius, and the Modality of Pisces, making its Domicle-ruler, Mercury, the Motivational-ruler of Aquarius. The Motivational-ruler is in-Service to the Regulating-ruler, and the Regulating-ruler is Exalted in the Sign which is the Domicle of the Motivational-ruler.
Two other examples using this pattern: Capricorn to Aquarius has Venus Exalted in Taurus, and Cancer to Leo, has Mars Exalted in Scorpio.

Mercury in-Service to Pluto, means that Mercury is a Benefactor when in Pluto's Domicile-sign, Scorpio. That's our current Transit for Merc, in the tropical zodiac.
 
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david starling

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Talkin'bout my Generation: In 12/12, Neptune is Exalted in Libra. :happy:
That's from the Gemini to Cancer transition.

[Side-note] The opposite of the tropical Age-sign, Capricorn, is having a rough time of it. Including having its name attached to a dreaded disease.:pinched: I MUCH prefer the name "Mer" for Cardinal-Water, but convention dictates the afflicted label, in order to be understood. Either that, or go to the trouble of using the symbol :cancer: for that one Sign.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
passiflora said:
It sounds almost neo-traditional? You use outers, obviously, and the method is new. But it’s strikingly not psychodynamic in the personality sense - the dynamism is largely derived from elements and modalities.
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The patterns are derived from the Elements and Modalities, which are used in both Traditionalistic and Modernistic astrology. Would Sense of Purpose, Sense of Directionality, Facilitating-ability and Catalytic-ability be considered "psychodynamic"? I'm also using the Ages as an integral part of the configuration, to explain the context within which the Chart plays out. Not certain what's meant by psychodynamic.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
passiflora said:
I agree about Mars in Taurus.
What does Pluto do in Gemini that would exalt it there in 12/12?
It moves so slowly seems difficult to assess its behavior in Signs, the way it’s possible with houses.
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Natal-charts are "snapshots" of astrological conditions when we're born and "come on line". So, the slow movement isn't really a factor in the personal sense. Pluto is just another player in the resolution and interdependence of forces, albeit an important one.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
passiflora said:
I agree about Mars in Taurus.
What does Pluto do in Gemini that would exalt it there in 12/12?
It moves so slowly seems difficult to assess its behavior in Signs, the way it’s possible with houses.
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I take "Exalted" to mean honored and respected. It doesn't have to do anything to earn that, and has full freedom of expression, provided it's not too poorly Aspected by other placements. I have Saturn Exalted in my Natal-chart, and not badly Aspected, so I don't see it as a villain--just difficult to deal with in so many Charts, in the aggregate. I do need what I consider to be reliable structure in my astrology, rooted in Tradtionalism, which may be a result.
I also have my Moon Exalted in Aquarius, and Trine :uranus: in Gem, so I have no problem with moving beyond Saturn's restrictions in ascertaining the nature of an Aquarian Age with Uranian and Plutonian rulership. In 12/12, the Aquarian Age is one of Facilitation. Also, :uranus: in Gemini is Catalytic.
 
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david starling

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passiflora said:
Not sure either. Something about reconciling these capabilities with the sense alluded to above that they don’t have to earn their status in a sign through action.
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Yes, how they function separately is one thing, and how they fit into the group dynamic is another. More than one Sense of Purpose, for example, can get in each other's way. But if one Sense of Purpose placement is poorly Aspected, another can take precedence. Sort of like a constant, determined profession accompanied by a cherished hobby, practiced when time permits.
 
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