Random Thoughts, strictly Text

[Ancar]

What is the "soul?" What IS it?

What is life? What is consciousness? What is mind? Where is one's natal chart stored in their body and environment?

What connects the planets and stars with phenomena on Earth, anyway? What locks the rotation of two quantum-entangled particles together at faster-than-light speed no matter how far apart they are separated?

I would say these are things that cannot be described tangibly or logically, only experientially.

Perhaps because they are a different dimension which permeates the material, but cannot be detected or described in any way in material terms, except by describing the effects. What Carl Jung would called acausal, with a cause beyond our human ability to detect or describe.

Thought experiment: We're isolated Amazonian natives within broadcast distance of Manaus - we're awash in radio, TV, and cell-phone waves loaded with information at all times, but completely unaware of them and unable to detect (much less describe) them because we have no devices to detect them with. But some of us have seen moving pictures and heard spoken words come from out of the air for the infrequent visitors' with their little flat boxes. The "atheistic" among us laugh at us and swear that's absurd! "There is NOTHING in the air - just LOOK at it, fools!!!"

 

[FraterAC]

Without being able to define or even describe it, how can one speculate on its properties? Or even its existence?

If we can't approach or understand it intellectually, does it necessarily follow that it is not possible to have some experience of it?

 

[katydid]

Without being able to define or even describe it, how can one speculate on its properties? Or even its existence?

If we can't approach or understand it intellectually, does it necessarily follow that it is not possible to have some experience of it?

There are people who have 'died' and then experienced things that are amazing and help fill in some of the blanks.

As a 14 yr old I was pulled out of the ocean, unresponsive, by lifeguards. I have very clear memories of my NearDeathExperience. To this day it's like it happened yesterday and I am 72 now.

Because of that experience, I feel like I got a glimpse of the 'other side.' I saw the blinding white light, my entire life flashed before my eyes as if I was watching a film speeding backwards, but it all happened within a blink of an eye because time was no longer the same as usual Earthbound time---Figures stood at the light, with open arms, beckoning me. I could not see faces, only their silhouettes, but I KNEW one of them was my grandfather who had died a few years before. And we spoke to each other, in our heads, without speaking out loud---and with love he told me I could go back, I didn't need to come with him, it was up to me---and a split second later I am on the beach with the lifeguards, helping me throw up seawater and covering me with blankets.

From that moment on, I accepted that there is an afterlife, where loved ones await, but there was no pain, even though I had drowned in an undertow....there was no panic or pain---just a beautiful White Light that beckoned me. And my grandfather was there if I had wanted to cross over.

I feel like it was my Soul experiencing that underwater crisis. And I have no doubt that Soul states exist and it is too complex for us idiots here on Earth to fully comprehend, but there is meaning and purpose with each incarnation.

Also, that year 14 was a real crisis for me because of some childhood trauma---and I was kind of at a crossroad. Transiting Saturn was in my 12th opposed my Sat/Nep conjunction. I had recently started hanging out with new 'friends' who were into drugs and partying. This experience helped me see the light and I went back to my good childhood friends who just smoked a little pot but weren't hard core.

 

[Ancar]

Without being able to define or even describe it, how can one speculate on its properties? Or even its existence?

When I wrote "I would say these are things that cannot be described tangibly or logically, only experientially", I very much intended the soul to be one of "these...things". I should have phrased that better.

I feel fortunate to also have experienced my soul. What else would be giving me, from childhood, vivid memories of my previous life, including unusual predilections and phobias, which I had even as a child in this present life? Many years later, I was able to verify more and more of these memories with facts - I researched official records, diaries, dates, names, places, etc. Only something like what we call "our soul" could carry these memories, desires, and fears from one incarnation to the next one. Our discarnate intelligence and its memories. (Okay, how about that for a working definition of soul?)

I had what you might call "leakage" between lives. Edgar Cayce and many others have said that if we remembered too much from past lives, it would be disorienting, overwhelming, even deranging, making it very difficult to start a new life. Memories have to be blocked for the most part. My memories came only in dreams, and I often woke up fully expecting the room, myself, everything, to be as it was in the dream - and was often disoriented when I opened my eyes. I had a slightly deformed leg in my previous life and fully expected to hobble when I got out of bed, only to be surprised and delighted when I stood up and discovered that my leg and foot were just fine! This happened over and over until I was about 10 years old.

If we can't approach or understand it intellectually, does it necessarily follow that it is not possible to have some experience of it?

No, it doesn't necessarily follow. Think back to my analogy: The few isolated Amazonians who actually saw "the outsiders" talking with moving images on their smart phones experienced what they could not even begin to approach or understand intellectually - nor could they prove it to the skeptical villagers who didn't see the outsiders using their phones, skeptical villagers who laughingly denied any possibility of speech and images coming through the air from afar. But those few HAD some experience of it.

Regarding the soul, we're at the point where the Amazonian natives are - only some of us have experienced the soul at some point while incarnate - although it is always there like the invisible cell phone transmissions are always there - phone to receive them or not.

We live our day-to-day lives in our personality, the guise that we have taken on and developed for this incarnation, complete with earned karmic plusses and minuses. We strongly tend to identify only with our personality as the whole "I/me", oblivious to the fact that our total self always goes far deeper than that - whether we "receive" it or not.

I highly recommend checking out the fascinating work of Dr. Ian Stevenson (a Canadian psychiatrist) and Dr. Pim van Lommel (a Dutch cardiologist) - both their books, documentaries, and on YouTube - for their truly incredible accounts that support the definite existence of the soul.

If you have a Roku or the like, Dr. Pim van Lommel is featured first in a wonderful three-part series streaming on Tubi called Life, Death, and Reincarnation, which is excellently done and well documented.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Just thinking...to be fair to people who contend that an individual soul could dissipate to nothingness, another material analogy: Let's say a well-raised son (soul) chooses to leave his loving parents (God), lured by the quick wealth of a life of crime (material evil), but eventually dies from an overdose of expensive cocaine in celebrating a successful heist (a consequence of his poor choices).

Does that mean his father's or mother's love is not unconditional? When they will still deeply grieve his loss? When at any time, he could have joined his parents' business or finished college with his parents' help?

However, I agree that they've been "outsmarted" if the son conceals his criminal activities - God is never "outsmarted" so that part is irrefutable.

What I'm getting at is that it would not mean that God's love is "conditional" if the soul deliberately cut itself off from God's inexhaustible source of love and spiritual energy in order to fulfill its narrow, selfish, insatiable lust for power and acquisition in the material dimension.

Again, I'm not saying I believe that souls can extinguish themselves. I honestly don't know. But I strongly feel that the soul's path is always the soul's informed choice.

Hi Ancar.

This is the first time I am contemplating about what happens to a soul if it refuses to grow. It’s a very interesting question to ponder.

I thought about it last night, and tbh, the more I thought about it, the more I can agree, or at least understand, why there is a school of thought that a soul who refuses to grow can dissipate.

I think it is entirely plausible and it makes logical sense because once each soul progresses and progresses up the ladder of loving consciousness, the soul eventually dissipates into Oneness anyway, so of course it makes sense that the opposite is also true.

However, after thinking about it again this morning, I think because Love is the strongest energy in the universe, that each soul would eventually choose the path of love eventually anyway.

But then I am an idealist.

Let’s take the analogy you used of the coke head son - in his next life, he would be incarnated as the Father, and have to watch as his Father, who is now his son this life, lives a self-destructive life.

Now the son knows what it feels like, and he will have an underling guilt, knowing that his son’s coke head actions were caused by the fact that son was once his father.

The father, who became the son in the next life, probably chose to self-destruct in the next life, because he was upset about the fate of his son in a previous life, and the OG son’s soul, would recognise that is being partly to blame.

Now, in the third incarnation of this analogy, the son has returned to being the son again, and the father is now the father again — the son, having felt the grief of what it is like to lose a son to cocaine, would not self-destruct to the same extent he did, because he now has the experience of understanding how hurtful it is to be the father in that situation.

Likewise, the father would understand the son’s self-destructiveness more.

A son doesn’t self-destruct unless there is a reason for it - so maybe there is some generational karma where there is part ‘blame’ on all sides.

That is what I meant by God’s love is not conditional because he will not give up on a soul who refuses to grow.

~

However, there is where I now start to question and even disagree with myself (lol), because, if a soul truly and repeatedly refuses to grow, as we all have a choice to do, despite now having had lived experience of the damage it is going - surely a soul still has the choice to grow or not, otherwise, it means, God will repeatedly send that person back to learn lessons, almost against their will.

So, maybe the soul has a choice to say no, I don’t want growth or love, I choose to dissipate. And I would hope that God would give us that choice.

I don’t like the idea of being forced to grow.

BUT THEN, I return back to my original statement - Love is the strongest force in existence, therefore, it is highly unlikely that a soul would refuse to grow.

Even when faced with the darkest of evil, love still wins. So, surely that means, no evil soul will choose to dissipate?

But then, now I am contemplating evil. Evil will always exist. Such is the law of opposites. So maybe, Satan does win some souls.

But, again, eventually, surely, love will win, and there will be no evil eventually. Not because evil dissipates, but because love can transform it.

🤷‍♀️

So, to sum up: Love > evil.

 

[Ancar]

Hi Ancar.

This is the first time I am contemplating about what happens to a soul if it refuses to grow. It’s a very interesting question to ponder.

I thought about it last night, and tbh, the more I thought about it, the more I can agree, or at least understand, why there is a school of thought that a soul who refuses to grow can dissipate.

I think it is entirely plausible and it makes logical sense because once each soul progresses and progresses up the ladder of loving consciousness, the soul eventually dissipates into Oneness anyway, so of course it makes sense that the opposite is also true.

However, after thinking about it again this morning, I think because Love is the strongest energy in the universe, that each soul would eventually choose the path of love eventually anyway.

But then I am an idealist.

Let’s take the analogy you used of the coke head son - in his next life, he would be incarnated as the Father, and have to watch as his Father, who is now his son this life, lives a self-destructive life.

Now the son knows what it feels like, and he will have an underling guilt, knowing that his son’s coke head actions were caused by the fact that son was once his father.

The father, who became the son in the next life, probably chose to self-destruct in the next life, because he was upset about the fate of his son in a previous life, and the OG son’s soul, would recognise that is being partly to blame.

Now, in the third incarnation of this analogy, the son has returned to being the son again, and the father is now the father again — the son, having felt the grief of what it is like to lose a son to cocaine, would not self-destruct to the same extent he did, because he now has the experience of understanding how hurtful it is to be the father in that situation.

Likewise, the father would understand the son’s self-destructiveness more.

A son doesn’t self-destruct unless there is a reason for it - so maybe there is some generational karma where there is part ‘blame’ on all sides.

That is what I meant by God’s love is not conditional because he will not give up on a soul who refuses to grow.

~

However, there is where I now start to question and even disagree with myself (lol), because, if a soul truly and repeatedly refuses to grow, as we all have a choice to do, despite now having had lived experience of the damage it is going - surely a soul still has the choice to grow or not, otherwise, it means, God will repeatedly send that person back to learn lessons, almost against their will.

So, maybe the soul has a choice to say no, I don’t want growth or love, I choose to dissipate. And I would hope that God would give us that choice.

I don’t like the idea of being forced to grow.

BUT THEN, I return back to my original statement - Love is the strongest force in existence, therefore, it is highly unlikely that a soul would refuse to grow.

Even when faced with the darkest of evil, love still wins. So, surely that means, no evil soul will choose to dissipate?

But then, now I am contemplating evil. Evil will always exist. Such is the law of opposites. So maybe, Satan does win some souls.

But, again, eventually, surely, love will win, and there will be no evil eventually. Not because evil dissipates, but because love can transform it.

🤷‍♀️

So, to sum up: Love > evil.

@Ukpoohbear

A brilliant post, Pooh Bear! 🥇

You have written a rational, balanced, and articulately creative consideration of all sides of this issue.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

@Ukpoohbear

An absolutely brilliant post, Pooh Bear! 🥇

You have written such a rational, balanced, and articulately creative consideration of all sides of this issue that there is absolutely nothing I could add to it except my great appreciation.

Sincerely,
Ancar

If only all men were as wise as you 🙊🙊

 

[FraterAC]

What is being mostly left out of this conversation is the concept of consequences for one's actions, which flow naturally from what one does, and why they do it.
If a personality acts from a state of selfishness and immorality, they create difficulty and suffering for themselves, and if from a condition of virtue and consideration, more pleasant conditions. This is not theoretical or poetic; it is within all our experience. Some results are long term, or even in a subsequent existence, and some are more or less immediate. It's not punishment; actions and attitudes create these effects in themselves. People use various names for this principle.
Very gradually over time this has a tendency to encourage the personality away from actions that create suffering.
We do not choose virtue and idealism just from an innate desire for it. We also do it from a realization, however vague or subliminal, of the results of our actions.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Yeah agreed - it is not out of the goodness of my heart or for the love of flowers that I try my best to learn my lessons. It is out of fear of death and the consequences for my actions.

 

[FraterAC]

Yeah agreed - it is not out of the goodness of my heart or for the love of flowers that I try my best to learn my lessons. It is out of fear of death and the consequences for my actions.

Speaking strictly for myself, what keeps me honest (as honest as I am) is a desire to avoid as much needless trouble in my life as I possibly can. It's not all fear, but I know I create my experience by everything I do.

 

[Ancar]

We do not choose virtue and idealism just from an innate desire for it. We also do it from a realization, however vague or subliminal, of the results of our actions.

Fear of karmic consequences and self-induced trouble are excellent motivators to kick-start a conscious improvement of our actions and intentions. So out of fear or dread of hassle, we "fake it till we make it" - i.e., into habitual behavior. (We finally pass Karma 101.)

Then, perhaps after a long time "following the rules", something wonderful may happen - we may begin to desire to act out of virtue and idealism more often than not. We find we enjoy making others happier. To our surprise, we realize all this virtue stuff now actually makes US FEEL BETTER! Cleaner, safer, more at peace, more proud of ourselves...happier...and more genuinely loved.

 

[conspiracy theorist]

This is a conundrum, because I watched the RNC for a bit, during the celebration of the announcement of the VP candidate, and

the Neutra family was speaking --- Their children are being held hostage in Gaza, and they asked for help from the Republican Administration.

Before them a Jewish American spoke against the anti Semitism on college campuses. And they spoke about their confidence in the Republican candidates in helping Israel and the US get their hostages released.

weird

Definitely the Evangelicals within the RNC are Pro-Israel. Hell, Israel support seems to be a thing for the US Government in general.

There may be strange bedfellows within the party, but I respect how they present a united front. The same can't be said for the Dems. It's embarrassing how a lot of high ranking officials are publicly calling for Biden to step down. It looks very weak, as someone observing from outside the United States. And such poor timing, too.

 

[david starling]

Will Rogers, American actor and humorist: "I'm not a member of any organized political Party - I'm a Democrat.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Speaking strictly for myself, what keeps me honest (as honest as I am) is a desire to avoid as much needless trouble in my life as I possibly can. It's not all fear, but I know I create my experience by everything I do.

Yeah, I knew it didn’t describe the whole truth after I wrote it. To ‘treat others the way you want to be treated,’ is a lesson I have learnt.

 

[FraterAC]

Yeah, I knew it didn’t describe the whole truth after I wrote it. To ‘treat others the way you want to be treated,’ is a lesson I have learnt.

One day I had the revelation that everything I experienced in my life was the result of the actions I took and why I took them. What I actually did (as opposed to intended or thought about) and my motivation for doing it.
I did not understand how that could be so, since there were other people and outside factors involved, but I knew with absolute certainty that the revelation I was getting was the truth.

 

[Ukpoohbear]

One day I had the revelation that everything I experienced in my life was the result of the actions I took and why I took them. What I actually did (as opposed to intended or thought about) and my motivation for doing it.
I did not understand how that could be so, since there were other people and outside factors involved, but I knew with absolute certainty that the revelation I was getting was the truth.

Yes, I can see the energy exchange and it’s a good motivation to remain good or act with integrity.

And then I do enjoy seeing the energy exchange happen to those people who have not behaved with integrity, finally take effect. It is something I have only recently started to see, and it’s all because of their own past behaviours. 🍿

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Fear of karmic consequences and self-induced trouble are excellent motivators to kick-start a conscious improvement of our actions and intentions. So out of fear or dread of hassle, we "fake it till we make it" - i.e., into habitual behavior. (We finally pass Karma 101.)

Then, perhaps after a long time "following the rules", something wonderful may happen - we may begin to desire to act out of virtue and idealism more often than not. We find we enjoy making others happier. To our surprise, we realize all this virtue stuff now actually makes US FEEL BETTER! Cleaner, safer, more at peace, more proud of ourselves...happier...and more genuinely loved.

I do get joy out of being able to be nicer to somebody that what another person was to me. My higher self recognises it.

But, I do still also recognise there is a sense of fear of consequences too.

Are you in a place where you don’t fear death at all?

I like to think I don’t, certainly because of my spiritual beliefs, knowing there is an after life. But, there is also a sense of fear around death and consequences. Has that gone away for you completely?

 

[david starling]

Tropical Moon's in Capricorn. Get those chores done, or at least get them started.

 

[Ancar]

Are you in a place where you don’t fear death at all? I like to think I don’t, certainly because of my spiritual beliefs, knowing there is an after life. But, there is also a sense of fear around death and consequences. Has that gone away for you completely?

No, it hasn't.

I fear the unknown, and I've been in the material world, blind to that world beyond death for so very long, that it has become the unknown.

Despite those still amazing signs, the incredible synchronicities (like astrology, I Ching, unbelievable coincidences) that keep telling me there is a greater system at work beyond my comprehension, there is never any audible voice, any visible guardian angel that explicitly reassures me of my life after death. (I blame my all too powerful Moon in Taurus for craving a materialistic reassurance like that so badly.)

Those past-life memories I had as a boy were so long ago are only mental data now - I've been in the material world too long and lost the transcendent connection. I clearly remember them intellectually, but no longer emotionally or spiritually.

A near-death experience (like Katydid's) while trapped in this material plane is such a great gift of reassurance - it reopens the door just long enough to remove doubt, by showing us that existence goes on...and gives peace of mind.

I also fear I may well have not fulfilled my karmic mission this time. I fear some of my actions in this life may have alienated whoever, whatever watches me from beyond.

I fear leaving alone the helpless one that still needs me.

 

[conspiracy theorist]

I am by no means as old as you are Ancar (currently going through my first Saturn Return) but I share your sentiments. I have my doubts of an afterlife and have lost my connection to the transcendent.

Because of that, I don't give a toss about my obligations to "karmic duty". I am not a menace to society, but generally my views can be summed up as, nothing is true and everything is permitted.

This despite the fact that I went through two "near death" experiences although not to the extent of losing consciousness.