Question about significators

hiimnotcool

Well-known member
Okay, so if I ask a question about a girl I am in a relationship and want to know something about her and an ex that she used to have a relationship with but now has a kid....would his significator be the 10th from the 5th since it's the father of her child or would it be the 5th from the 7th?
 

tikana

Well-known member
your gf's x is 7th house


test out 1st house as well to represent him UNLESS you are putting yourself into a configuration.. if you ae asking about her and you and the ex .. The ex is the sun to rule men
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Alchabitius (and Ibn Ezra) would have taken the 1st triplicity (trigonal) lord of the sign on the 7th house as his significator (they called this the "first spouse" of the "other person" which the 7th house represents; although perhaps not exactly this girl's "first spouse", it is close enough to qualify as significator by the Alchabitius/Ezra triplicity allocations)
If the question were asked in the day, use the day lord; if at night, use the night lord...

If you are asking about them AS A COUPLE, then the lord of the 7th house sign would represent THEM as a "unit"
 

tikana

Well-known member
why would my girlfriends x be the 7th? i'm asking about her and him so wouldn't she be the 7th?


You are asking about her

she is 7th

the x is sun .. or 1st house

use sun when you are involving yourself
if you are not part of the question use 1st because you have nothing to do with the question

Clearer?
 

Olivia

Well-known member
I always understood it that another man/woman would be the first trip ruler of the first house if you're asking about another person.

They person herself is 7, so that's out. You're 1 (if the first trip ruler is the same as the house ruler, you're the moon), and the other person she's involved with is the first triplicity ruler of 1.
 

tikana

Well-known member
Olivia

in Lilly's Whether a Lady have a Lover besides the Querent

"If there be any planet in the 7th (if it be not lord of the 7th), she has one of the description of that planet.
The lord of 7th or Sun joined to Mars, she has a lover with whom she is familiar but unless other and very evil testimonies accord not improperly The lord of the 7th void of course or with North Node or if no planet be in the 7th judge that she has none and if the lord of the 7th aspect only the lord of the ascendant judge the same "

http://books.google.com/books?id=dC...&resnum=1&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
page 198

thinking
T
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
why would my girlfriends x be the 7th? i'm asking about her and him so wouldn't she be the 7th?

Selecting the correct Houses/Significators depends upon whether or not you have permission to ask the Question.

You always have permission to ask Questions that are directly related to you. Third Parties, by definition, have no direct relationship to you and so you don't have permission to ask Questions about 3rd Parties (unless the 3rd Party comes to you and says, "Ask a Question about me.")

If that sounds confusing, it is supposed to be. It's a built in "Check & Balance" designed to keep people from abusing Horary and knowing things they have no business of knowing because that tends to lead to extreme sorrow and grief.

Even when someone is directly related to you, like your girlfriend, the correct House/Significator depends on permission.

If you suspect your girlfriend is pregnant, and you ask that Question, and you don't have permission, she is the 7th House, but if you tells you, "Ask an astrologer if I am pregnant" then you have permission and she effectively is the "true Querent" and she is the 1st House, even though she is your girlfriend.

It's also why people should consult with an astrologer because as Bonatti says, people are often too silly to know what they want, and the result is an Horary that gives vague or conflicting information.

I suspect the real Question, that is what you really want to know is how much of a role this man will play in the child's life. The reason you want to know is because that will dictate how much contact this man has with your girlfriend and we all know that some people are insecure and can't handle another man (or woman) hanging around the object of their affection.

In that case, the child would be the 7th House (since you don't have permission) and the father (your girlfriend's ex) would be the child's 4th House (the Chart's 10th House) and here is where the Lot of the Father would come in handy.

The Dispositor for the Lot of the Father and its position and condition in the Chart, as well as the location of the Lot and its condition should give you an accurate answer.

For example if the Lot is located in the child's 12th House (the Chart's 6th House) then that is the House of Separation and the child would have almost no contact with the father, or perhaps some contact in the first year or two or three and then none later on. A square or opposition from Mars or Saturn would indicate even less contact, probably none at all.

The Lot in the child's 1st/2nd House would indicate a lot of physical contact. In the 3rd House, the father is in the neighborhood and maybe calls the child on birthdays and holidays. In the 8th House the father provides financial support but might have only limited contact. In the 7th House, the child will probably hate the father.

The Lot in a House Cadent to the child would indicate distance, probably absence.

Of course you'd also want to look at aspects between the Lot's Dispositor and the child's significator. Separating aspects are self-explanatory, applying aspects might indicate some involvement in the child's life to some extent or another.

The child's mother would be the Chart's 4th House. Aspects between the 4th House Ruler and the 10th House Ruler (if any) will show you how that goes. Separating aspects are self-explanatory, applying aspects will show the level and nature of the contact.
 

hiimnotcool

Well-known member
My exact question was 'Is she still sexually involved with him?'

I asked this after a breakup 2 or 3 weeks ago. We were apart for 5 days and in that time frame she admitted to having a little bit of sexual contact (she said it never got to the point of sex) with him but that it happened only once. We've been back together since March 13th and now I'm still wondering. I don't know if it's paranoia or not on my part but the question was just burning in my mind.


Here is the chart:





It seems to be giving different results with the different methods in this thread which is why I'm so confused now.


Tikanas first method, Dr. Farrs, and Olivia's would seem to say 'No'


but then Tikana posted the quote from Lily and it says 'If the Sun be joined to Mars or the Lord of the 7th (mars in both cases in this chart) then she has another lover with whom she is familiar'. Well the Sun and Mars are conjoined since the Orb is 12.5 degrees for those two planets. Even though the two planets are separating and in different signs. It is interesting to note that the sexual contact occurred on March 13th, which was 11 days before I asked the question. In this chart the Sun is separating from Mars by 11 degrees. Where should I go from this????
 
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Olivia

Well-known member
I know you know that a separating conjunction that's already out-of-sign does not represent anything resembling a current relationship.

Obviously there was a relationship in the past; they had a child together. You know this. And something that didn't come to sex happened in the more recent past.

I think you need to think about some things. This woman is currently pregnant with your child. That's your responsibility. As to the rest, do you still love her?

If you do, I think you need to work on the jealousy and paranoia, because if you don't it's going to tear your relationship apart.

You're Venus, she's Mars, Moon is applying to both of you and to Mercury on the cusp of 7 as well. Given that the upcoming Moon/Mars contact is a square, try to sort out your own feelings, and then to have a civilised conversation with her to get to the bottom of this. You can't live with someone if you're constantly suspecting the worst of them. It'll be bad for you, for her, and it won't do your child any favours, either.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

A quite straightforward question!
By Primary Ankara horary:
-she = the subject matter of the question; from the question you are not involved in what you are trying to find out, therefore (in the Ankara tradition)
-she = 1st house = Libra = Venus significator
-her ex = the 7th house = Aries = Mars significator
-the relevant Lot is the Part of Sexual Intercourse (asc+mars-moon) which falls @ 2 Aquarius (in her 5th house)
-she (Venus) and he (Mars) flow away from the Part of Sexual Intercourse = a "no" answer to the question
-no applying aspect from Venus to Mars = a "no" answer
-Moon (her co-significator) applies to Mars, but it is an applying square which = developing aversion on her part toward him
-no applying aspects of any of the significators with the Part of Sexual Intercourse = a "no" answer

So-at least by the alternative Ankara horary approach-the answer to your question is "no she is not still sexually involved with him"...
 

tikana

Well-known member
Hey

Sun and Mars are separating ... Sun is reaching out to Jupiter not Mars.
Mars does not catch upwith Sun

so no she is not involved with ex

T
 

hiimnotcool

Well-known member
Thanks for the confirmation everyone. This will help me let go of the past and move positively into the future with her. I think by nature I'm inclined to be jealous (exact Pluto (in 7th house) square Venus natally) but I'm doing my best to work on it for the sake of her and more importantly our unborn baby. I think I'll lay off asking horary questions about her anymore unless it's absolutely essential. Thanks again!
 
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