Putin: White hat or villain?

ElenaJ

Well-known member

And this one:
https://mychristianpsychic.com/journal/sadism-in-the-chart/

"we would expect to see a moon that is hardened. I don’t think a person could be sadistic without it. Hence, the moon has to have problems, by sign and aspect. The problems have to be extensive enough to harden them to human suffering. I have seen sadism in a Libra Moon."

Putin has a gemini moon.

Putin's moon is unaspected.
(but someone here has a SR libra moon!)

"Purely by sign, I would say that Libra, Aquarius, Capricorn and Scorpio would be the first to consider in sadism...I don’t think any of these moons without afflictions would be sadistic. They may be cold, but sadism is much more than coldness.."

"The Jupiter has to be afflicted to be a sadist....Jupiter exaggerates what it touches..."

Putin's Jupiter squares Pluto and exactly squares the nodes.

"Pluto in hard aspect to Saturn is said to be cruelty."

Putin has saturn sextile pluto.

"The Cardinal Ascendent is thought to be the most capable of cruelty."

Putin's ascendent is a fixed sign, scorpio.

"House wise, I would think that a 1st house stellium would be the most likely for sadism because this stellium can be the most self centered. If not, one might consider a 12th house stellium because this oen can be the most suppressed. The 12th house is the House of Suppression and this is truly the case."

Well well, Putin's stellium is 12th house !
 

jac

Well-known member
No one mentions the fact US/Nato has edged Russia with deadly biological weapon labs.

How'd you like to discover Mexico is working on an army of death bugs in 50 labs festooned on our border?

..me neither.
One crisis actor after another.

Nobody questions Anything.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I have a very close friend who has sun/neptune/saturn conjunction in Libra, although not the same year as Putin.
Venus is also in libra, although at the other end of the sign with respect to the stellium.
No megalomania, not mentally unbalanced (even with mercury in scorpio).

When I use the term "femminine" it isn't in reference to the masculinity of the sign, but the yielding soft nature of the sign.

Have you looked at the last synastry? It looks very dark, and he is the most influential person around Putin.
Sun/saturn conjunction in a natal chart robs self-esteem and looks for a "father" figure.

I don't define Libra as "soft and yielding." Notably not with an exalted Saturn in Libra.

If either of our charts is correct, Putin has Venus in Scorpio.

I think sun conjunct Saturn is typically a signature of low self-esteem. But another interpretation of a planet conjunct the sun is that it shows what the person identifies (sun) with. In Putin's case, I think he identifies with traditional authority.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Elena, not only does your description give an inaccurate picture of Vladimir Putin, it gives an inaccurate picture of Libra.

Venus shows up in every sign of the zodiac. All kinds of people with no esthetic sense whatsoever have Venus in their charts somewhere.

I work with house cusp rulers a lot. If we want to learn something about Putin's Libra house, we look at the situation of Venus-- as it actually falls in the chart.

Putin's Venus is in Scorpio. To get traditional about it, Venus is in detriment in Scorpio, meaning it's not well-placed in a Mars-ruled sign. To get modern about it, Venus doesn't have much in common with Pluto.

I tend to associate Venus in Scorpio with jealousy.

Neptune is not the planet of reality. Neptune can be empathetic but we also associate it with alcoholics, drug addicts, and deceivers.

Vladimir Putin is not a sympathetic character. Where I think his Neptune manifests is in the visionary. He has a vision for Russia.

I just wish it were a better vision that didn't involve military conquest.


Yes, the article is just for fun.

There is a whole range, though, of Libras included, from acting to science to writers to military men.
It's really how the libra is inserted in the rest of the chart that makes the difference.
It is Venus-ruled, so beauty will always be part of it.
Which seems to give it a feminine sign, in spite of it being actually masculine.
Cardinal and active certainly.

With Saturn and Neptune sitting on the sun, there is repression of its qualities, looking for father figures during the whole life span.
As well as the Neptune instinct that gives a lot of sensitivity, and empathy.
Both Capricorn and Pisces.
Does that lay out an accurate picture of Putin the man???
 

waybread

Well-known member
David, I don't know that Putin is sadistic in a personal sense. Maybe his ex-wife could comment on that. I don't see anything extraordinary in his basic chart. I'd look for problems with Saturn, Pluto, and Mars.

This article pointed to Putin's sun conjunct fixed star Algorab, which apparently makes the individual destructive and malevolent. https://astrologyking.com/vladimir-...scope Summary,him immense power and influence.

Pluto conjunct MC sextile Saturn looks like someone with a strong need for power over other people.

Elena: Libra is an air sign, as you know. Putin's moon and Mercury are in air signs. To paraphrase Stephen Arroyo, to air signs, ideas are very real. I think Putin is motivated by ideas, like the reunification of the USSR. Neptune in Libra, combined with the sun, can make someone the visionary (whether or not those visions are accurate.) Put differently, Putin is an ideologue.

To get back to David's question, I don't see Putin as sadistic on a personal level. I think it's more that he would see individuals as expendable in pursuit of his ideals. It may be the philosophy of, if you want to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs.

So he didn't get the surgical conquest of Kyiv that he wanted? Putin's mentality also is OK with devastating Ukraine to teach other countries a lesson: don't mess with Mother Russia, or you'll get the same treatment. He would also see millions of Ukrainian refugees pouring into eastern Europe as helpfully destabilizing them. I think his message to Poles is, wait for another month or two and see how happy you are then with a Ukrainian family in your spare bedroom.

Putin is a strategist. Which is air-sign territory.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
David, I don't know that Putin is sadistic in a personal sense. Maybe his ex-wife could comment on that. I don't see anything extraordinary in his basic chart. I'd look for problems with Saturn, Pluto, and Mars.

This article pointed to Putin's sun conjunct fixed star Algorab, which apparently makes the individual destructive and malevolent.

Pluto conjunct MC sextile Saturn looks like someone with a strong need for power over other people.

I now see Putin as enjoying, getting pleasure from what he's doing to men, women, and children, including his own soldiers, in the Ukraine. He's also enjoying the sanctions, knowing they'll only hurt the Russian people, with little effect on his own personal life.

Looking at his chart is a chance to learn what there IS about it that fits his sadistic nature, which has become so obvious to me.

I remember Trads were laughing at the Mods who had done cold readings on John Gacy's chart, and had nothing but good things to say about it. Whereas, in Trad, there were dire warning markers. Maybe we could get a real Trad interpretation, minus Pluto, Uran, and Neptune, and see if anything shows up concerning sadism.

In Trad, doesn't Saturn, the greater malefic, "Joy in the 12th House"? What exactly does that mean? Could be about sadistic pleasure, given Saturn's reputation, with all other factors taken into account, of course--not just that by itself.
 
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Witchyone

Well-known member
Yes, the article is just for fun.

There is a whole range, though, of Libras included, from acting to science to writers to military men.
It's really how the libra is inserted in the rest of the chart that makes the difference.
It is Venus-ruled, so beauty will always be part of it.
Which seems to give it a feminine sign, in spite of it being actually masculine.
Cardinal and active certainly.

With Saturn and Neptune sitting on the sun, there is repression of its qualities, looking for father figures during the whole life span.
As well as the Neptune instinct that gives a lot of sensitivity, and empathy.
Both Capricorn and Pisces.
Does that lay out an accurate picture of Putin the man???

No, it isn't. You cannot begin with the chart, which we are not sure is even his correct chart, read it in a way that I don't even agree with, and then say, "this is Putin...ignore your eyes." We have to start with reality and see how the chart helps explain it.
 

david starling

Well-known member
No, it isn't. You cannot begin with the chart, which we are not sure is even his correct chart, read it in a way that I don't even agree with, and then say, "this is Putin...ignore your eyes." We have to start with reality and see how the chart helps explain it.

Witchy, what's your "astrological take" on Putin? One that matches up with what you see "with your eyes"?
 

waybread

Well-known member
David, I'm a b it ambidextrous about traditional and modern. I think we should look at the person and both types of charts to see what is the best fit.

I get that Putin's chart is Rodden DD, but in working with it for a while, I think it's pretty accurate.

I think in Putin's case, Pluto is essential. Pluto-Lilith-MC form a so-called "talent triangle" with his Mars, Libra planets. This to me looks like enjoyment (trine) and even excitement (sextile) with personal power (Pluto-MC/Mars). Saturn in the mix can add to the hard qualities of Mars trine Pluto. I don't think it's so much that he enjoys hurting people, as that their pain and even their deaths are merely collateral damage to his larger goals.

It's like the saying, If you want to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs.

In traditional astrology Saturn would be the one to watch. It joys in the 12th house and sextiles Putin's MC and Mars. Saturn exalted in Libra looks to be Putin's strongest planet (almuten) but it is combust the sun.

Then we've got normally jovial Jupiter retrograde in the 7th house. Jupiter is angular and in its own terms so it's not helpless, but it is ruled by a problematic Venus. I think Putin's 7th house is more of the "house of open enemies" than the house of committed relationships. (He's divorced, with rumors of love affairs.)

Venus is in detriment. With Venus in the first house in Scorpio, Putin probably has considerable personal magnetism, but Venus has no other essential dignity, so Putin's ability to form relationships is damaged.

The sun in its fall in the 12th house is a weak sun, and maybe a deceptive one; but 12th house politicians tend to overcome this by identifying (sun) with a cause bigger than themselves.

Mercury is in its own terms, but it is not well-placed in the 12th house of deception.

The moon is the unaspected undignified "wild child." It's in airy Gemini in the 8th house of death, so he probably views death in a more abstract mental way. In fact, Putin's entire chart is dominated by air. Flesh and blood people may not be as real to him as his ideology.

I now see Putin as enjoying, getting pleasure from what he's doing to men, women, and children, including his own soldiers, in the Ukraine. He's also enjoying the sanctions, knowing they'll only hurt the Russian people, with little effect on his own personal life.

Looking at his chart is a chance to learn what there IS about it that fits his sadistic nature, which has become so obvious to me.

I remember Trads were laughing at the Mods who had done cold readings on John Gacy's chart, and had nothing but good things to say about it. Whereas, in Trad, there were dire warning markers. Maybe we could get a real Trad interpretation, minus Pluto, Uran, and Neptune, and see if anything shows up concerning sadism.

In Trad, doesn't Saturn, the greater malefic, "Joy in the 12th House"? What exactly does that mean? Could be about sadistic pleasure, given Saturn's reputation, with all other factors taken into account, of course--not just that by itself.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Thanks, Witchy!
There's a new take: He's "malfunctioning"! That could mean a sort of nervous breakdown, caused by Saturn's transit through Aquarius. (Since both Saturn and Pluto are the ones to watch.) I see Saturn as the "foreign-ruler" of Aquarius, not the domiciled-ruler, so it rules as a paranoid tyrant, needing to demand obedience, rather than receiving it as a matter of course.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Looking at Saturn's transit through Aquarius, it's been conjunct Putin's NN for some time now, and opposite his natal Pluto and M.C.
 
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Witchyone

Well-known member
Thanks, Witchy!
There's a new take: He's "malfunctioning"! That could mean a sort of nervous breakdown, caused by Saturn's transit through Aquarius. (Since both Saturn and Pluto are the ones to watch.) I see Saturn as the "foreign-ruler" of Aquarius, not the domiciled-ruler, so it rules as a paranoid tyrant, needing to demand obedience, rather than receiving it as a matter of course.

I guess it could! I've heard that analysis from some who know better than I do. I've heard others say he's always been as he is now, and the world is just now seeing it in clear view, or just now acknowledging it.

I meant malfunction in a different, more basic way. I think everyone, regardless of their chart, can have a net positive or net negative impact on the world. His impact is net negative and then some. His position means that his negative impact will have more reach than someone else who "malfunctions" in this way. He is literally responsible for the deaths of thousands, at minimum, and great suffering. It probably goes back to childhood, as I think the cause does with anyone showing signs of a personality disorder.

Your observation that Saturn is conjunct his NN is very interesting. I wonder if it is having a negative impact on his emotional and/or thought processes and inspiring him to act poorly. Alternatively, perhaps its influence is stifling his attempts and has something to do with why his invasion has not gone to plan.
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
Odd bits and pieces, commenting in general on what has been written today, I've fallen behind!.


"The Opposition Platform for Life, Ukraine’s biggest opposition party, is led by Viktor Medvedchuk, a pro-Moscow oligarch with close ties to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. Party officials later said the suspension “had no legal basis”.

The Ukrainian authorities last year charged Medvedchuk, a longtime ally of Putin who is believed to be the godfather of Medvedchuk’s daughter, with treason and placed the oligarch under house arrest, a move that angered the Kremlin.

Ukraine said Medvedchuk escaped house arrest three days after Russia started its invasion of Ukraine on 24 February and his whereabouts are currently unknown."

The main political party in the Ukraine has 43%, which is less than half, so in reality we don't have this overwhelming majority backing the party, as the international press would have us believe.
The second largest party has 13%.
Being banned by the majority party.

If you ban the opposition voice, you will soon find that you have a majority.


"Oh, c'mon, Elena. You're not getting your news from Breitbart? "

Yes, among others. Why not?
The same news has now been carried by numerous other sources.
Something Breitbart reported:
"Meanwhile, Russia has experienced its own, even harsher crackdown on those voicing opposition to the war, with thousands reportedly being arrested by the country’s police for protesting against the conflict and people spreading what the state deems “fake” information threatened with significant prison sentences."

So we have both countries censoring the opposition.



I don't define Libra as "soft and yielding."

It's my impression of this air sign, known also for beauty and justice!

Notably not with an exalted Saturn in Libra.

Sun in libra doesn't express itself well, it has to sacrifice ego to the "other".
Saturn works well, though, and by conjunction forces restraint, responsibility, the ethics of hard work, as well as a sense of low self esteem and a searching for the authority figure.



If either of our charts is correct, Putin has Venus in Scorpio.

Yes, and he has it opposing expansive materialistic Jupiter retrograde in taurus. Lazy. Love of luxury. Big money spender. Emotionally demanding.
Crossing the 1st and 7th houses, it makes him sociable, and personally likeable (can't wait to see the comments on this one! Actually many who have met him have said this, he is good company and they come across liking him as a person.).
Jupiter is also religion and spirituality.



I think sun conjunct Saturn is typically a signature of low self-esteem. But another interpretation of a planet conjunct the sun is that it shows what the person identifies (sun) with. In Putin's case, I think he identifies with traditional authority.

Agree. In fact, I haven't yet seen comments on the synastry with his counsellor Kovalchuk. I think this has a lot to do with Putin's sun/saturn working out in life. Their synastry has a mutual mars/saturn square. He leans heavily on advice from this man.

"He derives pleasure from inflicting pain and suffering on others"

Supposition. We don't know this. Unless someone who knows him personally has reported it as such.

"No one mentions the fact US/Nato has edged Russia with deadly biological weapon labs. "
"Putin made that up as an excuse. The Russians have had bio-weapons labs ever since the USSR. The Ukrainian research labs are to defend against anything the Kremlin might try to infect them with."

The US State Dept has confirmed that the US has been financing Bio labs in Ukraine, developing viruses, not for creating a defence against Russia.

"If it were weapons on the Russian border, why not just confiscate those and leave Kiev alone?"

This is not the problem. The Ukraine had requested entry into Nato.

"Notably debunked conspiracy theories like the one you just posted."
Aside from Psaki, who has debunked this? The State Dept confirmed it.

"I think sun conjunct Saturn is typically a signature of low self-esteem. But another interpretation of a planet conjunct the sun is that it shows what the person identifies (sun) with. In Putin's case, I think he identifies with traditional authority."

Yes.

"Elena, not only does your description give an inaccurate picture of Vladimir Putin, it gives an inaccurate picture of Libra. "

Oh well.

"Venus shows up in every sign of the zodiac"
What?

"I tend to associate Venus in Scorpio with jealousy. "

Trigger warning: Elena has Venus in scorpio!

" Neptune can be empathetic but we also associate it with alcoholics, drug addicts, and deceivers."

Music, religious figures, dreamers, poets. Depends on the aspects it makes.

"Vladimir Putin is not a sympathetic character."

The problem we have is none of us knows him personally.
We only see his public image. People who meet him, tend to like him.
And, of course on the other end there are his brutal actions taken as a head of state. It isn't just the reaction to Ukraine, remember the other suppressions, the poisonings, which I believe are more straight forward crimes but aren't being mentioned now.
His chart has to reflect all of this.
A man who has achieved what he has, has to necessarily be complex and we should be able to read all of it in his chart.


"I just wish it were a better vision that didn't involve military conquest. "

Amen.

"This article pointed to Putin's sun conjunct fixed star Algorab"

A very close conjunction! Further from your article:
"It gives destructiveness, malevolence, fiendishness, repulsiveness and lying, and is connected with scavenging. Delays and restraint are indicated to come about by fiascoes, losses, wrong handling of matters, and enmity in general. Algorab is in Constellation Corvus the Crow. It gives craftiness, greediness, ingenuity, patience, vengefulness, passion, selfishness, lying, aggressiveness, and material instincts, and sometimes causes its natives to become agitators."
No saving grace there!!


"Putin's moon and Mercury are in air signs. To paraphrase Stephen Arroyo, to air signs, ideas are very real. I think Putin is motivated by ideas, like the reunification of the USSR. Neptune in Libra, combined with the sun, can make someone the visionary (whether or not those visions are accurate.) Put differently, Putin is an ideologue."

Further, the moon does not connect with anything else in the chart.
Emotional detachment.


"I now see Putin as enjoying, getting pleasure from what he's doing"

Sheer speculation.

"You cannot begin with the chart, which we are not sure is even his correct chart, read it in a way that I don't even agree with, and then say, "this is Putin...ignore your eyes." We have to start with reality and see how the chart helps explain it."

We can't really do this if we don't know the man. We only see the public view.
So we would be looking in the chart for what corresponds to his public image.
If we follow that path, for how many public figures who present as good guys would we have positive readings? Only that they don't really give us insight into the persona itself. We want to see behind the curtain, using astrology as a tool.


No offences to anyone, just commenting.
 

Tham

Well-known member
Vladimir Putin has all the makings of a
cunning, vengeful, sadistic, mass murderer.


Ixion and Tantalus are prominent in the charts of
murderers, mass murderers and serial killers.


Ixion exact at Saturn, at the "worst" 18th degree

Tantalus one degree away, in between
Ixion/Saturn and Neptune

Pluto right at 22 Leo, the "kill or be killed" degree,
which also makes him a prime candidate for assassination.

Sun exact at Algorab, in Corvus, the right arm of the Crow


Diana Rosenberg -

“The worst of them are greedy, scavenging, dishonest and
exploiting opportunists, sinister, vicious, acquisitive, quick
to claim credit for the work of others”.


https://darkstarastrology.com/corvus-algorab-star/


https://alexasteroidastrology.com/astrology-of-las-vegas-shooting/
 

waybread

Well-known member
...
"...
The main political party in the Ukraine has 43%, which is less than half, so in reality we don't have this overwhelming majority backing the party, as the international press would have us believe.
The second largest party has 13%.
Being banned by the majority party.

If you ban the opposition voice, you will soon find that you have a majority.

Parliamentary systems often have a government led by the party that got the plurality of votes, not an outright majority. Typically they broker collaboration with one or more minority parties. This is the case in Canada today, incidentally.

"Oh, c'mon, Elena. You're not getting your news from Breitbart? "

Yes, among others. Why not?

Because Breitbart is a rag for alt-right conspiracy theorists. It twists facts. It deals with half-truths (like the article you cited, whose sources I tracked down.)

A problem with your linking Libra to femininity, softness, beauty, and whatnot is that it is no argument against Vladimir Putin's carnage in Ukraine. ("What? He's a Libra. He couldn't have done those nasty things.")


If either of our charts is correct, Putin has Venus in Scorpio.

Yes, and he has it opposing expansive materialistic Jupiter retrograde in taurus. Lazy. Love of luxury. Big money spender. Emotionally demanding.
Crossing the 1st and 7th houses, it makes him sociable, and personally likeable (can't wait to see the comments on this one! Actually many who have met him have said this, he is good company and they come across liking him as a person.).
Jupiter is also religion and spirituality.

I agree with much of this, but Putin's Jupiter is retrograde. I think this accounts for his serious demeanor. It's hard for him to relax. He claims to be Russian Orthodox. Hard to imagine that he actually believes in Jesus.

...



The US State Dept has confirmed that the US has been financing Bio labs in Ukraine, developing viruses, not for creating a defence against Russia.

No, they did not confirm it. They debunked it. This is a baseless conspiracy theory from the QAnon fringe. There are public health labs in Ukraine that Putin fans lied about.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/intern...aganda-efforts-boosted-us-far-right-rcna19392

https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/ky...n-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/

The United Nations inspectors monitor such things.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114272

.....

"Venus shows up in every sign of the zodiac"
What?

Vs. over-identifying Venus with Libra.

"....

"Vladimir Putin is not a sympathetic character."

The problem we have is none of us knows him personally.
We only see his public image. People who meet him, tend to like him.
And, of course on the other end there are his brutal actions taken as a head of state. It isn't just the reaction to Ukraine, remember the other suppressions, the poisonings, which I believe are more straight forward crimes but aren't being mentioned now.
His chart has to reflect all of this.
A man who has achieved what he has, has to necessarily be complex and we should be able to read all of it in his chart.

I think I've done so. He's an ideologue, to an extreme extent. I've discussed this in his chart in detail.

...
"This article pointed to Putin's sun conjunct fixed star Algorab"

A very close conjunction! Further from your article:
"It gives destructiveness, malevolence, fiendishness, repulsiveness and lying, and is connected with scavenging. Delays and restraint are indicated to come about by fiascoes, losses, wrong handling of matters, and enmity in general. Algorab is in Constellation Corvus the Crow. It gives craftiness, greediness, ingenuity, patience, vengefulness, passion, selfishness, lying, aggressiveness, and material instincts, and sometimes causes its natives to become agitators."
No saving grace there!!


We can't really do this if we don't know the man. We only see the public view.
So we would be looking in the chart for what corresponds to his public image.
If we follow that path, for how many public figures who present as good guys would we have positive readings? Only that they don't really give us insight into the persona itself. We want to see behind the curtain, using astrology as a tool.


No offences to anyone, just commenting.

I think Putin's personal qualities, however commendable, are utterly irrelevant to today's horrible war in Ukraine. I am looking at him as a political leader.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I guess it could! I've heard that analysis from some who know better than I do. I've heard others say he's always been as he is now, and the world is just now seeing it in clear view, or just now acknowledging it.

I meant malfunction in a different, more basic way. I think everyone, regardless of their chart, can have a net positive or net negative impact on the world. His impact is net negative and then some. His position means that his negative impact will have more reach than someone else who "malfunctions" in this way. He is literally responsible for the deaths of thousands, at minimum, and great suffering. It probably goes back to childhood, as I think the cause does with anyone showing signs of a personality disorder.

Your observation that Saturn is conjunct his NN is very interesting. I wonder if it is having a negative impact on his emotional and/or thought processes and inspiring him to act poorly. Alternatively, perhaps its influence is stifling his attempts and has something to do with why his invasion has not gone to plan.


I went to transits right after reading your "malfunctioning" post. After all, there's timing involved as to when his malfunction became obvious to nearly everyone. As in, "why now"?

Personally, I think trSaturn is harshing his NN.
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
Parliamentary systems often have a government led by the party that got the plurality of votes, not an outright majority. Typically they broker collaboration with one or more minority parties. This is the case in Canada today, incidentally.

Sorry, this is irrelevant.
No one is saying that Zelensky was not legitimately elected.
The fact is, however, that he represents 43% of the voters.
Which means that 57% did not vote for him. This is a statistic.
So, the idea that he was elected by an overwhelming majority is just not so.


Because Breitbart is a rag for alt-right conspiracy theorists. It twists facts. It deals with half-truths (like the article you cited, whose sources I tracked down.)

This thread should concentrate on Putin, not on authenticating news outlets.
However, it has been reported by many sources that Zelensky has muted/silenced/gagged the minority party, and any parties that were favourable to or loyal to or pro-Russia.



A problem with your linking Libra to femininity, softness, beauty, and whatnot is that it is no argument against Vladimir Putin's carnage in Ukraine. ("What? He's a Libra. He couldn't have done those nasty things.")

Libra is a sign that many people have, not just Putin.
And Libra is ruled by Venus. Venus is the Goddess of Beauty.
Let's see why this isn't matching up with what we are seeing in Putin.


I agree with much of this, but Putin's Jupiter is retrograde. I think this accounts for his serious demeanor. It's hard for him to relax. He claims to be Russian Orthodox. Hard to imagine that he actually believes in Jesus.

Jupiter is of course religion and spirituality.
In the charts I'll post shortly Jupiter keeps popping up.
Jupiter, expansive, generous, joyful, abundant!
What??
There was a recent post that went into the effects of Jupiter in charts and transits. And it isn't always all happy times.


...
No, they did not confirm it. They debunked it. This is a baseless conspiracy theory from the QAnon fringe. There are public health labs in Ukraine that Putin fans lied about.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/intern...aganda-efforts-boosted-us-far-right-rcna19392

https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/ky...n-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/

The United Nations inspectors monitor such things.


https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114272

.....

Let's not get lost in this. The final word isn't out yet on this, let's just put it on the side burner for the moment, for the purposes of this thread, if that's ok with everyone.


Vs. over-identifying Venus with Libra."....

Well, Venus IS Libra, as well as Taurus.

I think I've done so. He's an ideologue, to an extreme extent. I've discussed this in his chart in detail.

...
"This article pointed to Putin's sun conjunct fixed star Algorab"

A very close conjunction! Further from your article:
"It gives destructiveness, malevolence, fiendishness, repulsiveness and lying, and is connected with scavenging. Delays and restraint are indicated to come about by fiascoes, losses, wrong handling of matters, and enmity in general. Algorab is in Constellation Corvus the Crow. It gives craftiness, greediness, ingenuity, patience, vengefulness, passion, selfishness, lying, aggressiveness, and material instincts, and sometimes causes its natives to become agitators."
No saving grace there!!




I think Putin's personal qualities, however commendable, are utterly irrelevant to today's horrible war in Ukraine. I am looking at him as a political leader.

This thread hopefully will look at both sides.... Why did a man with this specific chart come to where he is today?
 
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ElenaJ

Well-known member
Very insightful article on The Making of Putin.
A bit long, but worth reading.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/vladimir-putin-russia.html?smid=url-share

Attached some excerpts from the article, with insight from persons who actually met with Putin.

..."An agreeable tone alternates with brutal outbursts".
Scorpio ascendent, with Venus conjunct ascendent.

..."I've seen Putin go from a little shy, to pretty shy, to arrogant, and now megalomaniacal"
Progressed natal chart developing the energies.

---"Something is definitely different "...
Progressed planets changing signs.

Looking at the progressed charts, I've included the asteroids Tham mentioned earlier, and they certainly do give an incredible picture of what is going on.
And surprise, there actually exist asteroids named Vladimir and Ukraine, so I've inserted both.

For convenience I've included his natal as well.

It seems that it was some time around 2017 that a change was noticed in Putin's behaviour , so one of the progressed charts is for that year.

In the natal chart, Ixion is conjunct Saturn with Tantalus very close by, the dreaded Algorab conjunct sun and significantly Ukraine is conjunct Pluto!
It is actually in a trine to asteroid Vladimir, completing a Grand Trine with mars.(Aren't trines supposed to be positive energy???).

In the progressed chart for the beginning of 2017, when comments mentioned there was a change in Putin, Moon is at 0 degrees libra, mercury 0 degrees sagittarius, and Venus at 29 Capricorn is about to change signs.
Three important personal planets shifting energy from earth and water to air and fire.
Neptune conjuncts saturn, while sun is square asteroid Vladimir. Asteroid Vladimir opposes Ixion.
So quite a bit of inner turmoil taking place.
Ukraine now trines Chiron and actually trines Jupiter.
Mars is exactly on North Node.
The sun is in a Yod formation with Uranus and Jupiter.
It does seem the stage is beginning to be set for something major about to take place.
A very concrete coordinated shift in energy.

Moving on to the progressed chart for March of 2022 sun near the ascendent is exactly trine pluto, who is co-ruler of the natal ascendent, and now in the 8th.
Mars has moved on to trine Ixion, tantalus is conjunct sun, Ukraine is exactly trine Jupiter.
Asteroid Vladimir is exactly square unpredictable Uranus, forming a T-square with Ixion.

The chart is for late march, but just recently moon had conjuncted mercury.

So we now have Algorab, Ixion, Neptune and Saturn in libra, the sign of peace, Venus/NN/mars in Aquarius, the sign of humanity, and mercury/moon/sun in sagittarius, the sign of justice.
What could possibly go wrong?

Transiting Uranus is conjunct Jupiter, transiting Saturn nearly conjunct progressed mars, transiting asteroid Vladimir conjunct the ascendent.

Putin's natal ascendent is now conjunct the progressed midheaven of public status.
 

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ElenaJ

Well-known member
So what is your point, Elena?

Can we see the transformation of Putin as it forms in his charts?
What can we learn from this, if anything?
Astrology should be giving us a look into a window that others are not able to access. Is this true?
How is his energy manifesting itself? Why?
How effective are the asteroids?

Can we explain the contradictions between what we are seeing publicly and what the charts say?
This thread is specifically about Putin. It could be about any other public figure. The point is not to make a moral judgement of the personality, but to understand what is happening, and why. Which can be applied to other cases.

Has anyone had a chance to evaluate the charts? Any take on it?
I understand we are all emotionally effected by what is going on with the war, but can we take a step back and look at the general picture?
By examining the charts in advance, would we have been able to foresee the current aggression?
In fact at this point in time, by looking at the charts, can we foresee the next move?
 
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