I have to list this so as not to miss important points...
1. Bob, do you think it matters who used what? Or do you think it's better to concentrate on what works in the here and now? I just hate seeing how the tiniest things influenced the development of what are very popular practices which are either ignorant of wisdom of the past or silly by the sheep-following-sheep idea, to me. I think I'm in the astrology game too long now to rely solely on others, hence the much-needed research.
I suppose it comes down to the question which came first, the Signs or the Houses?
Obviously, the Signs. You can look at like the Houses are the stage, and the Signs are the scenery, back-drops and props, and the Planets are the actors.
You don't really need a stage. Sure you can shoot scenes for a tele-play or screen-play at Pinewood Studios, but you can also shoot them out-doors with no stage, just the scenery and props.
I think if you're going to follow specific doctrines, like Lily, then you should use Regiomontanus. Most people have ready access to Lily's Christian Anthology and it's a good starter, but he uses Regiomontanus and so should you if you're using Lily.
If you're going to follow Bonatti, then you should use Alcabitius. If you're into some of the early Persians and Jews, then probably Placidus or Porphyry.
From what I've seen, House Cusps only come into play with certain Greek Lots, namely the Lots of Wealth (Substance), Death and Enemies (Hermes), and then in Mundane Ingress Charts, because the Chart Ruler is the Planet that has the greatest Dignity in certain House Cusps and is also conjunct the Cusp.
2. Propogators? What are they? I've seen Hyleg but not much. Are they the rulers of the houses?
It's the Planet or Chart Point that rules your "Life Essence" (for lack of a better word) and determines (in part) when you die.
It's a Planet or Lot of Fortune in the 7th, 9th, 10th or 11th Signs. If a Planet is in one of those Signs and it's a Day Chart, then the Planet that has the most Dignity in the Sun, Ascendant and pre-Natal New Moon is pitted against the Sun and Moon to see which of those three is the most powerful. If none are, then you look at Sun and Moon, and if they aren't in the 7th, 9th, 10th or 11th Houses then you automatically take the Ascendant.
In a Night Chart, you look at the Planet in the 7th, 9th, 10th or 11th Signs to see which has the most Dignity in the Moon, pre-Natal Full Moon and the Lot of Fortune, and pit that against the Moon and Sun to see which is the most powerful. If no Planets are in those Signs, or none qualify, then you look at Moon and Sun and if they aren't in those Signs, then if the chart is Conjunctional, you take the Ascendant, and if it is Preventional, you take the Lot of Fortune.
Then once you find the Hyleg you Direct it to see how long the Native will live. If the Hyleg is in the 2nd Quadrant, a Feminine Quarter (the 7th, 8th and 9th Houses) you Direct it to the Descendant and that's how long the Native lives, and you modify that by how long it takes the Benefics and Malefics to make aspects to the Descendant, which will either shorten or lengthen the Native's life span.
I've got charts on here that show that with all the math and stuff.
3. As for Placidus, I read many times that he never invented that, he, like so many others was ... knowingly or not re-popularizing creations of others in the past...so I guess it would be better to say, some consider Ptolemy to have used what was later to be known as Placidus, but that's ruled out now.
You have to look at the math that they might have been capable of doing at the time. No doubt with better math (and better math skills) and different theories about the Earth (being round or not) and such you can devise different schemes.
Porphyry is easy, because all you do is count the degrees between the Ascendant and the Midheaven (going clock-wise) and then divided by three and that's your 11th and 12th (and 5th and 6th) House Cusps, then count the degrees between the Ascendant and Imum Coeli (going counter clockwise) and then divide that by three.
For everything else you start getting into mathematical acrobatics, trisecting arcs and then projecting various types of Great Circles on to different points of the Ecliptic.
It's a lot of math. A lot of math.
4. If I understand you correctly Bob, and I'm not erroneously using the terms, I think you're referring to the 'places' (signs, no such concept as houses, really) and what the ASC 'sees' - hence the Ptolemic aspects to it. Did the ancients count those aspects only with the ASC or also with the bodies? (sign aspects) E.g. The chart ruler two 'places' away from Venus, is that a sextile regardless of degrees? Or only what the ASC 'sees' - regardless of aspect, given that not being seen was the worst (2nd, 6th, 12th).
They used Signs.
A Planet that is inconjunct to the Sign it rules, or an Almuten that is inconjunct to the House/Sign it has dominion over or a Planet inconjunct a House/Sign has not control over it. That would be like an actor that is still in the dressing room and neither on-stage nor off-stage.
For example, I have Scorpio-rising and ruler Mars is in Aries but Cadent in the 6th Sign, meaning Mars is inconjunct the Ascendant. Likewise, the Chart Ruler and for both ibn Ezra and my variation on his method gives Sun, who is in Gemini and therefore inconjunct the Ascendant.
I have zero control over my life. I basically spent most of my life reacting to situations created by others, or waiting for others to do what they're supposed to do so that I can move forward. If I'm not waiting on some bureaucrat to fill out forms and grant approval (or denial) then I'm waiting on some hack at a bank or some business to do their job.
Perfect example is on the first night of classes, I'm commuting to Miami University (Oxford Ohio about 1 hour 15 minutes one way) and I stopped because a car in front of me stopped to turn and then the guy behind me hits my car knocking it into the car in front of me, and then some woman hits him knocking him into my car again and into the car in front of me. So the police cited the other two drivers at fault, but that's little comfort, because my car has to be towed and is non-operational.
Do I get a hired car? No. The two insurance companies can't agree on who should pay if I rent a car. My insurance company says the other two should pay.
So by the time I realize this is not going to be resolved, and I have no car and cannot travel to attend classes, I withdraw from the class, but I lose 25% of the tuition I paid and my graduation is delayed for an entire year, because I needed that class in order to take another class.
So it took nearly 3 months to get my car repaired, I had to pay for it, although my insurance company sued the other two and recover, that took nearly 2 years.
And that's a small sample of what I have to put up with on an almost weekly basis every year of my life.
You see people "totally out of control" a lot, I can almost guarantee the Almuten of Intellect is inconjunct Moon by Sign.
Almuten of Wealth inconjunct the 2nd Sign/House they have no control over their wealth. If they'll have wealth, they'll get it, but they won't have control over how they get it, nor would they have control over how they lose it (if that happens to be the case).
You want the Planets to make aspects to the Signs they rule. The Moon is particularly bad in Sagittarius, because it is inconjunct to both Cancer and Taurus, it's Sign and Exaltation.
A Pisces or Virgo Sun is also bad because it is inconjunct to both Aries and Leo (its Exaltation and Sign).
5. Is it widely-believe that Ptolemy used at least one system for assessing planetary strength and at least another for interpretations?
I don't know. You got me on that one.
I have to say I'm really enjoying the re-read of Lily's work, I think I'm in a better place to absorb it now. And his framing of people based on a body being strong in a native's chart, whether dignified or not is very accurate. Does anyone know how important planets on the angles were considered? If at least as far back as the Romans the AC/MC were highlighted, then surely so. And perspectives on undignified planets? Not even face or term?
You'd probably like Gadbury as well.
Angular Planets are strong, but they are stronger in the order 1st, 10th, 7th and 4th.
Same with Succedent Planets. They are stronger in the 11th, 5th, 2nd and 8th.
Cadent Planets are stronger in the order 9th, 3rd, 6th and 12th
A Peregrine Planet is weak, but it can be strengthened if in aspect to Sun, Venus or Jupiter by sextile or trine.
Histories Mysteries (I love that show).
