Profecting charts

[tsmall]

I have <another> silly newbie question...when looking at profections, does bringing the profected house to the ascendent change the accidental diginity, by house placement, of the planets? For example, if the year ruler (or any other planet) is in a cadent house natally, but comes to be in a fixed or angular house, does it then change it's ability to act for that year? Also, if the profection changes the sect of a planet, would that have an influence on the chart?

 

[Culpeper]

That is how the profection works. You count around the chart until you find the house of the year you want. You make that the first house. In this new chart the planets in the new angles are strong and effective that year. The planets that are found in cadant houses will be ineffective. If the sect has changed take that into account as well.

The essential dignity stays the same. The classical astrologers considered the so called accidental dignities to be more important because they are horoscopic: That is part of the natal chart. The essental dignities are zodiacal, and used to find the houses ruled by the planets.

 

[JerryRR]

Hi Tamara,
I suggest reading,"Classical Astrology for Modern Living." by J. Lee Lehman.Chapter 14 covers Profections,eg Age 42 is 7th House.

J.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Hi Tamara,
I suggest reading,"Classical Astrology for Modern Living." by J. Lee Lehman.Chapter 14 covers Profections,eg Age 42 is 7th House. J.

also the original Valens http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf

 

[tsmall]

That is how the profection works. You count around the chart until you find the house of the year you want. You make that the first house. In this new chart the planets in the new angles are strong and effective that year. The planets that are found in cadant houses will be ineffective. If the sect has changed take that into account as well.

The essential dignity stays the same. The classical astrologers considered the so called accidental dignities to be more important because they are horoscopic: That is part of the natal chart. The essental dignities are zodiacal, and used to find the houses ruled by the planets.

Thank you!

Hi Tamara,
I suggest reading,"Classical Astrology for Modern Living." by J. Lee Lehman.Chapter 14 covers Profections,eg Age 42 is 7th House.

J.

OK, I will look into purchasing this one.

also the original Valens http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf

This one I do have, and am <slowly> making my way through. Unfortunately, I really want to know everything, immediately, and of course, that is not the way astrology, or any other subject, works.

 

[dr. farr]

The place where the count starts, ie the first house, can make a difference: the Egyptian method (which ahs always been the dominant one, and is the one followed by Valens) begins the count at 0 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 0) Paulus of Alexandria differed, and began the count at 1 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 1) I myself have followed the Pauline profection (all of the available authors have chosen to follow the Egyptian method of starting @ 0, including Lehman, Ben Dykes, etc)

In my experience I have found Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method.

 

[tsmall]

The place where the count starts, ie the first house, can make a difference: the Egyptian method (which ahs always been the dominant one, and is the one followed by Valens) begins the count at 0 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 0) Paulus of Alexandria differed, and began the count at 1 (in other words, the year after birth = the 1st house and is counted as 1) I myself have followed the Pauline profection (all of the available authors have chosen to follow the Egyptian method of starting @ 0, including Lehman, Ben Dykes, etc)

In my experience I have found Pauline profection to be the more accurate profection method.

dr. farr, I have Ben Dykes Introductions to Traditional Astrology, but admit that I have not yet gotten to the part on profections. To make sure I understand what you are saying, if the 1st year (according to Pauline profections) means the year of the ASC, would that mean that this year, for me (at 42) profectionally (is that a word? it should be...) would bring 8th, and not 7th to the ASC?

 

[JUPITERASC]

Whereas the difference is that Valens and many now termed Hellenistic Astrologers time profections as follows:

The ascendant is considered as being time of birth so from birth to the cusp of the 2nd house is considered to relate to the first year of life: from cusp of 2nd to cusp of 3rd encompasses the second year of life (ie from age one to age two) and so on around the natal chart returning to the Ascendant for the twelfth year of life

 

[dr. farr]

With Egyptian profection the ascendant (1st natal house) comes back around at ages 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72 and 84 years of age.

In the lesser known Pauline profection the ascendant (1st natal house) comes back around at ages 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73 and 85 years of age.

So, at age 42, by the generally followed Egyptian profection method the ascendant for the 42nd year would be in the natal 7th; however in Pauline profection the ascendant for the 42nd year would fall in the natal 6th house.

 

[Alice McDermott]

Solar Fire enables you to calculate Profections for the actual day of an event. I find these little profections very, very accurate and have started to work with them for timing.

For example, when my son got married the profected true North Node was conjunct his natal Sun, profected Jupiter was conjunct his MC and profected Saturn, ruler of his 7th house, trine his 7th cusp.

Alice

 

[dr. farr]

Yes, I find profection to be the most accurate of our predictive tools working from the natal chart (with simple symbolic progression coming in a close second, and the 2 worked together really productive of impressive results); the question is which system of profection to follow-Solar Fire I believe uses the Egyptian method, counting the birth ascending sign as year 0; probably 99% of those using profection follow this method: I have had good results with it too, but have come to prefer the Pauline profection as I have described it in earlier posts.

 

[Alice McDermott]

Yes, I find profection to be the most accurate of our predictive tools working from the natal chart (with simple symbolic progression coming in a close second, and the 2 worked together really productive of impressive results); the question is which system of profection to follow-Solar Fire I believe uses the Egyptian method, counting the birth ascending sign as year 0; probably 99% of those using profection follow this method: I have had good results with it too, but have come to prefer the Pauline profection as I have described it in earlier posts.

Hi dr farr

Do you know of a program that will calculate the Pauline system for daily Profections?

I love to try new techniques, but found the general approach to Profections a little to vague for me - but when I realised Solar Fire would calculate their daily movement and they had exact 'hits' for important events in the life I was sold on them.

They can be so accurate that it can boggle your mind. They even connect into the charts of other members of the family:

For example, when my oldest son's sister was born he had profected Ascendant-South Node exactly conjunct her natal MC; profected Venus conjunct her Descendant; profected Mars conjunct her Neptune (there is a story to this one - she had Neptune in the 8th house and died of more or less drowning during the Darwin Cyclone of 1974, my eldest son has always felt responsible for her death as, during a fight, he told her he wished she was dead a few hours before it happened).

At the birth of his first brother he had Profected Sun conjunct his brother's MC; profected Ascendant square his brother's North Node - and this brother was induced!

At the birth of his 2nd brother he had Profected Sun conjunct his brother's Venus; profected Neptune conjunct his brother's Ascendant; profected Descendant conjunct his brother's Mars and profected Venus square.

All of these contacts were under one degree.

If I have exact times of birth I now use Daily Profections and Daily Age Harmonics for timing more than any other method.

Alice

 

[byjove]

I've just come back to this topic now and I wonder about the philosophy behind it? Why does a sign or place take over/represent/have control of major affairs in a life and why a year?

I've just reconstructed the years of my life using both the Egyptian and Pauline profection and I get some correlation with both, but not enough. There are a few significant years where I don't see the bang I should. Is it just a matter of following the ruler of the sign that represents the year, observe the natal position for clues etc.? I'm surely missing something.

 

[Vista]

Solar Fire enables you to calculate Profections for the actual day of an event. I find these little profections very, very accurate and have started to work with them for timing.

For example, when my son got married the profected true North Node was conjunct his natal Sun, profected Jupiter was conjunct his MC and profected Saturn, ruler of his 7th house, trine his 7th cusp.

Alice

I have Solar Fire version 7.3. Could you tell me where one would find this option of calculating profections?

 

[Vista]

Yes, I find profection to be the most accurate of our predictive tools working from the natal chart (with simple symbolic progression coming in a close second, and the 2 worked together really productive of impressive results); the question is which system of profection to follow-Solar Fire I believe uses the Egyptian method, counting the birth ascending sign as year 0; probably 99% of those using profection follow this method: I have had good results with it too, but have come to prefer the Pauline profection as I have described it in earlier posts.

Is there significance when the ASC is brought to the current years profection? Also, is there any difference when one is born at the beginning of January, i.e. instead of showing age 36 bringing the ASC to the first house it's shows age 37. I suppose it's based on Pauline or Egyptian method?

 

[JUPITERASC]

I've just come back to this topic now and I wonder about the philosophy behind it? Why does a sign or place take over/represent/have control of major affairs in a life and why a year?

I've just reconstructed the years of my life using both the Egyptian and Pauline profection and I get some correlation with both, but not enough. There are a few significant years where I don't see the bang I should. Is it just a matter of following the ruler of the sign that represents the year, observe the natal position for clues etc.? I'm surely missing something.

byjove Omnisphericus has a great thread entitled "Profections (Praxis)

This is the basic technique given by Paulus of Annual Profections of the Ascendant, i.e. profection of the Ascendant from one sign to the next for each year of life. The Ruler of the Sign in which the Ascendant is falling in that particular year is called 'The Lord of the Year".
This technique is quite simple and you do not need to calculate degrees, only signs.
If you are born with Aries rising, on the Solar Return the next year (when you are 1 year old) the Profected Ascendant would be in Taurus and the Lord of the Year would be Venus.

The Ages 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72, 84, 96 and etc., are the 'Profection Return' (to invent a title xD), the Ascendant in those years is the same as it was at the birth, so the Lord of the Year is the same too.

Years 1, 13, 25, 37, 49, 61, 73, 85, 97 are given to the 2nd sign from the Ascendant.

Here's a chart:
View attachment 27162

The Lord of the Year is having the same function as the Lord of the Year at nativity. It is most significant planet, ruling the place where the Soul (the Sky) and Body (earth) are merging (at the Ascendant).

Here's what Paulus says about the Lord of the year in profections:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47191

 

[byjove]

Thanks again, I'll get stuck in!

 

[dr. farr]

Remember to profect all the chart elements, not only the ascendant, and then correlate the profected positions to the natal ones. Also, just as in SR and progressions and even transits, not every year will be dramatic or a stand-out one; many years will be pretty much just "average", for most people at least, with nothing especially outstanding happening, either way.
Then their are the "big years", dramatic years; these should be seen in whatever predictive method we might be using, such as profection...

 

[MSO]

So if I understand this correctly, when the planets and points are profected into different signs, you treat them as if they're in those signs in the natal chart with regards to the power they have that year (this is assuming you use whole signs)?

So if my Sun which is natally in Libra 3rd House was profected all the way around into Virgo 2nd House, the Sun would play only a moderately important part of this year due to being in a succedent house?

 

[dr. farr]

Yes that could be part of it; but the Sun profected into Virgo would be delineated as the Sun influence (ie, Sun in Virgo) for that profection year; profected planets relating by conjunction to natal planet positions (like in transits/progressions) are also of prime importance for the profection year. So in your example: Sun porfected into natal Virgo, and say Jupiter is in the natal Virgo: so we would look at (profected) Sun conjunct (sign conjunct like the Hellenists used) natal Jupiter, as operative in that profection year (ie, defacto Sun conjunct Jupiter influence in that profected year)