Pluto, The Moon and the Devouring Mother Archetype

waybread

Staff member
Calvinsmom, thanks for sharing your painful story with us. I hope that somewhere along the way you were able to find a helpful psychologist! You seem like a very strong person. How super that your son is there for you!

Have you looked at your mother's and maternal grandmother's horoscopes? If you don't know their birth times, just post it as "unknown." The moon could move a bit back or forth (the chart will have no houses but a default noon birth time.) but it may help you to see the demons with which your mother struggled.
 

astrology02

Well-known member
I want to ask all the people who have any major aspect between Pluto and the Moon even if it is a "positive" aspect. In her book "Aspects in Astrology" Sue Tompkins says that those who have such an aspect are often obsessed by their mother (and sometimes by the thought of being a mother) and the mother will also be obsessed by her child. Typically the mother is too protective, controlling and is can't let her children leave home. The love of the mother who have with such an aspect might be devouring and manipulative but often this is hidden. But sometimes the devouring mother might really turn into an evil witch or a vampire, a mother that drains the life out of her child. The mother that is too "caring" by constantly invading the personal space of her child and not letting him/her have any secrets and a place where the child can stay alone.
Sometimes the figure of the parent is the grandfather or the grandmother. Often there is a strong matriarchal lineage.

What do you think about that? I have a sextile between Pluto and the Moon and I have realized the truth very late. And one of my grandmothers is a Scorpio and she is a very manipulative person. I have noticed that in my family - the lineage that comes from the mother and the lineage that comes from the father (I have a Sun in the 8th house), there is a story that deals with something like a curse of a bad wish that has been said by the mother to her child at the moment when the child wants to leave her in order to live in another city. For instance, my grandmother says such a thing to my father when he leaves for another town leaving his mother and the chance to meet her very often.

In the family of my mother, the mother of my grandmother also says a bad thing to her, disappointed that her daughter is going to leave her in order to live in a city far away from her home.

How about those of you who have an aspect between Pluto and the Moon?

WOW so accurate.

I have pluto opposite moon (exactly conjunct my IC) so I can relate. It is a very intense relationship I have with my mother. I think her intentions were always good, however she almost wanted to shield me from the world- to an extreme. Well fast forward 25 years and I feel unable to cope with life. I think any contact between the moon and pluto represents an intense relationship with the mother…with the opposition I think it goes back and forth between good and bad. I think there is also a lot of scorpio energy. The mother represents scorpio and even though she has good intentions, the energy can be too much sometimes.

My mother never had a close relationship with her mother so I think she overcompensates. It's almost as I feel that baggage from their relationship.
 

astrology02

Well-known member
Have you ever looked at their synastry? In my own family, I see a lot of "inherited" aspects.

My mom is the type of person who never shows her darker emotions. She is a very happy and outgoing person, but in 25 years I have only seen her cry maybe 3 times. She will say "everything is all good", except I almost have a sixth sense where I can read her emotions. Only with her- my other family members I can't. Her mother (my grandmother) suffered from depression and spent all her time in the house. My grandmother was present physically in my mother's life, but checked out emotionally. My mother always says "that is my purpose- i am here to help others". But I think there is a very deep, very hidden resentment that no one has taken care of her.

For example when my mom was 4 years old- it was her first day of school and my grandma just sent her off to walk by herself to the school which was far away. My mom had to essentially mother my grandmother because she suffered from depression. I think we attract circumstances into our life that are a reflection of our thoughts. So my mom on a subconscious level has always said "I am always there for everyone else, no one is there for me".

Then when she became a mom she carried that resentment. I think she tried to do everything in her power to not be a mother like my grandmother. I think she overcompensated in a lot of ways because she didn't want me to feel the way she did as a child. But at the same time I think she resented having to take of me because she felt "why didn't I receive this love & care as a child".

I think I inherit depression from my grandmother, I was so depressed I had to go to the hospital. And I think my mother relived the exact scenario she went through with my grandma, but just with me this time. I don't think our relationship got a fair chance- I think my mom had a lot of emotional baggage from my grandma that influenced the way she parented. A lot of carried over resentment (she would never say this to me, but I can feel it on an intuitive level).
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
My mother's Pluto is conjunct my brother's ASC and Saturn (he has Saturn in 12th conj ASC in Leo). He has Pluto/Sun conjunction in Libra conjunct her Neptune. My mother has Sun/Jupiter conjunction in Sagittarius (conjunct his Neptune).

My brother has Moon opposed Sun/Pluto, where Sun is the head of a kite formation with Saturn and Jupiter as the wings of the kite.

When my brother was 11 or so, my mother sent him to be raised by his father, because she felt he needed his father to be the best he could be. She left his father when their son was two years old, though he is a good man and loved her very much. She was pretty wayward back then and never stayed in a relationship longer than 3 years (has been married 5 times). She says she regrets not staying with his father of all her husbands.

My brother has been really successful and secure in life and is very close with his dad, but doesn't see our mom very often. She still feels she made the best decision even though separating from him hurt her a lot, and he definitely didn't grow up a wreck like my sister and I. :unsure: It's hard to imagine what he'd be like if she did keep him with her. Everything he can do now is due to his dad. He learned carpentry, farming, mining all from his dad and they run successful businesses together. He's traveled to Australia and Africa multiple times and has a beautiful son and wife. Of all of her children, he is the most stable and happy. He also has the strongest natal Pluto contacts of all of us. Our mother is like the opposite (Moon opposition?) of the devouring mother for him; she was the mother that let him go so he could live a full life. Curious what the Pluto/ASC conjunction means, however, especially with Saturn.
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
Also, since the question was asked about grandparents:

I don't have information about my grandmother. However I do have my grandfather, and in my chart I have Sun square Pluto. So it might be a useful look none-the-less. I have really strong Pluto contacts with granddad on father's side.

Both of us have Sun/Moon oppositions in water/earth signs. His Moon is in Scorpio, conjunct my Pluto and opposed to his Sun/Uranus in Taurus. His Pluto is conjunct my Cancer Sun and Leo Mercury, opposing his Mars in Capricorn, conjunct my Moon in Capricorn. We both have Mars in Capricorn.

His Mars/Pluto opposition is in t-square with Saturn in Aries, conjunct my NN (my nodal axis squares my Sun/Mercury and Moon opposition).

His NN is conjunct his Moon, opposed his Sun. So my Pluto is conjunct his NN as well.

We are uncomfortable around one another to say the least. I've been scared of him since I was a little girl. He is one of the few people I've ever felt threatened by; like the only person in the world that could break me with his pinkie finger, who I am terrified of disappointing, who I worry doesn't give a **** about me, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he wonders if I give a **** about him. If I were to ever live with him or be under his care as a youth, I'm absolutely sure it would not have gone well. He is so controlling and I am unwilling to be controlled. We'd probably destroy each other.
 
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Ambitious

Well-known member
I want to ask all the people who have any major aspect between Pluto and the Moon even if it is a "positive" aspect. In her book "Aspects in Astrology" Sue Tompkins says that those who have such an aspect are often obsessed by their mother (and sometimes by the thought of being a mother) and the mother will also be obsessed by her child. Typically the mother is too protective, controlling and is can't let her children leave home. The love of the mother who have with such an aspect might be devouring and manipulative but often this is hidden. But sometimes the devouring mother might really turn into an evil witch or a vampire, a mother that drains the life out of her child. The mother that is too "caring" by constantly invading the personal space of her child and not letting him/her have any secrets and a place where the child can stay alone.
Sometimes the figure of the parent is the grandfather or the grandmother. Often there is a strong matriarchal lineage.

What do you think about that? I have a sextile between Pluto and the Moon and I have realized the truth very late. And one of my grandmothers is a Scorpio and she is a very manipulative person. I have noticed that in my family - the lineage that comes from the mother and the lineage that comes from the father (I have a Sun in the 8th house), there is a story that deals with something like a curse of a bad wish that has been said by the mother to her child at the moment when the child wants to leave her in order to live in another city. For instance, my grandmother says such a thing to my father when he leaves for another town leaving his mother and the chance to meet her very often.

In the family of my mother, the mother of my grandmother also says a bad thing to her, disappointed that her daughter is going to leave her in order to live in a city far away from her home.

How about those of you who have an aspect between Pluto and the Moon?

I am not at all obsessed with becoming a mother nor am I obsessed by my mother but , growing up, my siblings thought I was favored by our mother.

I left home at 18 years old and never went back ( except for holiday).I live far away from my mother in a different city, which she initially did not like.
 

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
Astronomers demoted Pluto to dwarf planet status in 2006, but it seems very robust in modern western astrology. After studying astrology for about 22 years, I think it has huge interpretive value.

It just wasn't enough to hit the Thanks button; maybe this is something I like to hear, but you always have tremendous insight when you post and I don't think you get enough credit Waybread!

People shared much more than they had to for the good of others here. That's always appreciated because it can be intimidating to write about certain things online even when seeking clarity.
 
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Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
I want to ask everyone for more information. We know about the relationship between a child and a mother when there is such an aspect in the horoscope. But now, tell me about the relationship between your mother and her mother. And then, what was the relationship between your grandmother (the mother of your mother) and her mother. I want to trace the problem back in the generations.

I have Moon/Pluto/Mars/SN 8th H Scorp and the maternal father on that side has been missing for at least three generations. My grandmother's father died when she was two, my mother's father drove her and my uncle off a bridge when they were young (they survived), and my father was a significant threat while I was growing up. He left the household when I was 11 when he attempted suicide.

As a result of this continued male absence, not much is known beyond my maternal grandmother's father.

This trend manifested with masculine figures instead of feminine figures or energy.


On the paternal side, uncle has the NN in the same house in the same degree (H2 6th degree). They all seem to share a Pisces NN, but in different houses (mine is Taurus).

I do know they are picking these partners and it is less of a blood-line thing.

I don't know if it was those aspects, I hope this helps..
 
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duenderoja

Well-known member
I want to ask all the people who have any major aspect between Pluto and the Moon even if it is a "positive" aspect. In her book "Aspects in Astrology" Sue Tompkins says that those who have such an aspect are often obsessed by their mother (and sometimes by the thought of being a mother) and the mother will also be obsessed by her child. Typically the mother is too protective, controlling and is can't let her children leave home. The love of the mother who have with such an aspect might be devouring and manipulative but often this is hidden. But sometimes the devouring mother might really turn into an evil witch or a vampire, a mother that drains the life out of her child. The mother that is too "caring" by constantly invading the personal space of her child and not letting him/her have any secrets and a place where the child can stay alone.
Sometimes the figure of the parent is the grandfather or the grandmother. Often there is a strong matriarchal lineage.

What do you think about that? I have a sextile between Pluto and the Moon and I have realized the truth very late. And one of my grandmothers is a Scorpio and she is a very manipulative person. I have noticed that in my family - the lineage that comes from the mother and the lineage that comes from the father (I have a Sun in the 8th house), there is a story that deals with something like a curse of a bad wish that has been said by the mother to her child at the moment when the child wants to leave her in order to live in another city. For instance, my grandmother says such a thing to my father when he leaves for another town leaving his mother and the chance to meet her very often.

In the family of my mother, the mother of my grandmother also says a bad thing to her, disappointed that her daughter is going to leave her in order to live in a city far away from her home.

How about those of you who have an aspect between Pluto and the Moon?

I have moon square Pluto, and I was neglected by my birth mother. My adoptive mother took care of all of my needs, but she was emotionally and physically distant. I am not sure if my telling the judge that I did not like her, but that I liked my two brothers and father had anything to do with the way she treated me. I was five years of age.

I was scapegoated for everything that happened in our small household (mother, little brother, me). I was responsible for the majority of the cooking, cleaning and caretaking of the house – mother and brother took care of very little. I was a dutiful teenager, and the only trouble I ever made was the occasional lie to cover up my relations with boys online.

I felt very hated – and one day when I was 16, I calmly asked her if she loved me, and she tilted her head, thought a moment, and then said "no".

This thread disappoints me and depresses me. I have done my best in this lifetime to correct the negative karma. I want more than anything to be a good mother, loving and caring. Spiritually, I am trying to do everything I can to stop this karmic cycle.

My karmic record indicates I hurt my mother in some fashion. So all mother figures behave in a distant fashion toward me, or antagonistic. So I have always been patient and allow them to do what they will, and I soon went through a healing process and reached a point of forgiveness. My adoptive mother and I are friendly, but not super close.

My birth mother had moon conjunct Pluto.

Tension release via harmonious aspects [Moon trine Jupiter, Saturn, sextile Mercury] [Pluto sextile Sun, Neptune]. I believe I will succeed.
 
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darkangel

Active member
I have Moon square Pluto. Me and my mother have this love/hate relationship. She is very controlling, manipulative, and irrational. But we love each other even though we always fight.
 

NRodin

Well-known member
I have Moon conjunct Pluto, and I'm not sure if I will have kids because of how OCD I would be. Actually upon seeing this thread, it might be because of this placement that I have now that I think about it. It's just difficult because you never feel nurtured enough, and in return you become insecure about your ability to nurture as well, since Pluto hitting the moon just makes it so painful to detach yourself from things you care about.
 

sibylline

Well-known member
Since I am close to several people with Moon-Pluto aspects, including my partner, I appreciate all of you with Moon-Pluto aspects sharing your stories here. This is a great thread and I think that for those of you worried about your future parenting, the self-awareness you've shown is a hugely positive step.
 

waybread

Staff member
I have Moon conjunct Pluto, and I'm not sure if I will have kids because of how OCD I would be. Actually upon seeing this thread, it might be because of this placement that I have now that I think about it. It's just difficult because you never feel nurtured enough, and in return you become insecure about your ability to nurture as well, since Pluto hitting the moon just makes it so painful to detach yourself from things you care about.

Try not to use astrology as a means of disempowering yourself.

If you want children, you know it in your bones. Sometimes people who sincerely do not want a child at Time A may truly want a child at Time N. As a parent, you could always think about what is best for your child. And that would be your unconditional love.
 

Mfroyer

Member
is there such a thing as a dysfunctional functioning relationship? ..mmm maybe thats a little like a functioning alcoholic? idk.
but that's exactly how I'd describe virgo moon in the 9th sextile pluto in the 10th scorpio.
the manipulation is so deeply subconscious, you forget that it's not coming from a place of love, but possession by birth right.
 

Spiritlite

Well-known member
my Pluto is opposite my mother's Pluto. We don't talk, we used to get along, no longer do we get along (I'm 40 she's 62).

My brother's Pluto is conjunct his Moon, and my mother and him have a weird relationship. I bet if that wasn't her son, she would date him......yeah.....it's weird, the weirdest thing. He can do no harm in her eyes, even though he's not a very nice person. He also doesn't like women.

Spiritlite
 

Electro DGX

Active member
I have a Gemini Moon in the 8th opposite Pluto exact with an orb of one minute. My relationship with my mother is not as most archetypes describe; it's actually not bad at all. This may be due to it not being afflicted and it being supported by lots of trines and sextiles.

Though I will say that my emotions and personal context are very much hidden. No one knows of the deepest depths of my personal context and they may never know.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I want to ask all the people who have any major aspect between Pluto and the Moon even if it is a "positive" aspect. In her book "Aspects in Astrology" Sue Tompkins says that those who have such an aspect are often obsessed by their mother (and sometimes by the thought of being a mother) and the mother will also be obsessed by her child. Typically the mother is too protective, controlling and is can't let her children leave home. The love of the mother who have with such an aspect might be devouring and manipulative but often this is hidden. But sometimes the devouring mother might really turn into an evil witch or a vampire, a mother that drains the life out of her child. The mother that is too "caring" by constantly invading the personal space of her child and not letting him/her have any secrets and a place where the child can stay alone.
Sometimes the figure of the parent is the grandfather or the grandmother. Often there is a strong matriarchal lineage.

What do you think about that? I have a sextile between Pluto and the Moon and I have realized the truth very late. And one of my grandmothers is a Scorpio and she is a very manipulative person. I have noticed that in my family - the lineage that comes from the mother and the lineage that comes from the father (I have a Sun in the 8th house), there is a story that deals with something like a curse of a bad wish that has been said by the mother to her child at the moment when the child wants to leave her in order to live in another city. For instance, my grandmother says such a thing to my father when he leaves for another town leaving his mother and the chance to meet her very often.

In the family of my mother, the mother of my grandmother also says a bad thing to her, disappointed that her daughter is going to leave her in order to live in a city far away from her home.

How about those of you who have an aspect between Pluto and the Moon?

I have Moon square Pluto to a pretty close degree and my Moon is also in the 8th House.

I've never been obsessed with my mother or wanted to be the mother.

My mom though definitely seems to not want to let go of me. She tells me all the time that she's worried that I will leave her. She's very needy and dependent. And I wouldn't be surprised if she was like this when I was younger. She's kind of always protective of me; shielded me from the outside world and I guess that's why people who have aspects to Pluto have underlying insecurities or fears. They've grown up not having to face the harsh world and when they have to face it, they lie, manipulate, control, and understand all the undercurrent vibrations to maintain this power to be safe from the world--which they've learned from their mother who also had these insecurities.
 

Sunny

Well-known member
I agree with SunW, it's entirely right! also the thing to realize the truth very late, because the conscious is working about it without interruption. Pluton - Persephone - Demeter, that is a very hard trilogy!

My Moon is in the 8th, conjuncted to Saturn and in sextile to Pluton. The Pluton of my mother sits on the Asc and is sqarring her Moon conjuncted to Saturn. Her mother's Moon in the second house makes a square to Pluton conjuncting Venus in the 11th.

:whistling:
 
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