Pluto in modern astrology

Cruiser1

Well-known member
The Sun orbits a barycenter also, caused by the orbiting Planets, especially Jupiter. I'm wondering if that causes a slight, periodic Solar retrograde movement
It turns out that the Sun is only ever retrograde with respect to the solar system barycenter, if it's viewed from a relatively fixed point in space, such as another star. Viewed from any planet, the Sun and its barycenter will always be moving direct.

That's because the Sun's movement around the barycenter is slow, on about a 12 year cycle. Jupiter is the most massive planet, so Sun and Jupiter effectively orbit each other. Saturn is the next most massive planet, and when it aligns with Jupiter it tends to pull the Sun farther away from the barycenter, and when it opposes Jupiter it tends to pull the Sun towards it. The result is the Sun makes little loops in about a 20 year cycle (which is the period of Jupiter Saturn Conjunctions which happen every 20 years). Uranus is the third most massive planet, and its motion tends to distort the loops making them larger or smaller. The effect of all three planets on the Sun can be seen in the following diagram, showing the Sun's motion with respect to the barycenter over time:

png-transparent-barycenter-solar-system-orbit-planet-center-of-mass-planet-miscellaneous-angle-text-thumbnail.png


In summary, because the motion is so slow and the Sun and barycenter are so close to each other, that's why both will always appear to be moving direct from any orbiting planet. Even outer bodies like Neptune and Sedna still move fast enough that it will make them always appear direct.

Astrolog supports computing the solar system barycenter as well as the physical Sun's body, and can display both at once for comparison. (And for Pluto, Astrolog can compute the position of Pluto's actual body, it's moon Charon's body, and compare both to the Pluto planetary system barycenter, the latter of which is what most programs are limited to computing.) For example, I can reproduce the solar system barycenter diagram above in Astrolog's orbit chart, which can track the orbital movements of objects:

YWtB6jz.png
 

Opal

Well-known member
I'm a Pluto M.C. with Regulus, Scorpio rising, it has always pushed me to delve into secrets regarding religion.
It has burned away things in my life, to start something new, it hurts but i'm not afraid of its influence, transformation isn't bad!

I have Pluto on the MC with Scorpio rising. Transformation seems to be in order regularly. Also, Pluto controls explosive events, whether they are car accidents or arguments.

A T Mann in The Round Art describes its affects as explosive. I would agree.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I have Pluto on the MC with Scorpio rising. Transformation seems to be in order regularly. Also, Pluto controls explosive events, whether they are car accidents or arguments.

A T Mann in The Round Art describes its affects as explosive. I would agree.


What happened to "Transformational"? This sounds more like Shiva the destroyer, which is one visage of Saturn, when in Aspect to Mars..
 

david starling

Well-known member
Pluto was derived from ancient Egypt's most influential deity, Osris. It's about what happens AFTER death, not what causes it. And, it's about our living connection to how best to prepare ourselves for inevitable death.

Krishna Murti used to say that "we have to die" to things that are holding us back from enlightenment. That's more where Pluto comes into it. [IMO]
 
Last edited:

Opal

Well-known member
Pluto was derived from ancient Egypt's most influential deity, Osris. It's about what happens AFTER death, not what causes it. And, it's about our living connection to how best to prepare ourselves for inevitable death.

Krishna Murti used to say that "we have to die" to things that are holding us back from enlightenment. That's more where Pluto comes into it. [IMO]

I agree totally with the second paragraph. Shiva, the destroyer. There are things that should be destroyed, in order to transform. They have to die figuratively to enable that.

Shiva is my favourite god. His eyes, his ceremony. Bhang, bhang.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Charles Carter (whose many works had a significant effect on my astrological outlook) considered Pluto to represent the influences of saturn, mars & the sun; for me, I largely agree with Carter’s perspective about Pluto.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Charles Carter (whose many works had a significant effect on my astrological outlook) considered Pluto to represent the influences of saturn, mars & the sun; for me, I largely agree with Carter’s perspective about Pluto.

I see Greek mythologies as adding to my understanding of the astrological indicators. although I prefer the original Egyptian version of Pluto, Osirus, and the original Sumerian version of Venus, Inanna/Ishtar.

Saturn/Set was the aggressive enemy of Pluto/Osirus. Maybe something like, Linear-time versus Eternity?
 

Bunraku

Well-known member
Lol this thing moves so slow, of course major life happenings can coincide with it because its transits can last for many months & years
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Pluto and Neptune changes places every "score" (2 decades) in temporary periods of designated "8th" or "9th" planet, or in actuality, Pluto the dwarf planet vs Neptune the outermost gas planet. 1979-99, 1999-2019 and the current era we're in since 2019 (the Long B00M in the 1980s-90s originated in the late 70s to turn into the great crisis of the 2000s-10s peaking in the early 20s), then there's the signs Neptune and Pluto are in. The Neptune in Pisces transit Aries and Pluto in Capricorn transit Aquarius are omens of what's to come.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
For me, pluto is as real astrologically as Venus or mercury, and while I avoid it’s over-use, so too do I avoid its exclusion; my outlook on Pluto is similar to that of British modernist astrologer Charles Carter, whom I regard as the William Lilly of modern astrology.
 

Opal

Well-known member
Charles Carter (whose many works had a significant effect on my astrological outlook) considered Pluto to represent the influences of saturn, mars & the sun; for me, I largely agree with Carter’s perspective about Pluto.
If, I remember correctly, he mentions Pluto, believes it will affect people, but at the time of his writing what I read, he chose not to elaborate because of the discovery being new, and the observations only begun.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Right but he did classify plutos energy affinities.
Imo, definitely Mars and Mercury for affinity, but also close cooperative involvement with the Sun and Neptune. As for Saturn, there's not a worse matchup in all of astrology. Too bad so many Mods are somehow equating them.
There's also close cooperative involvement for Pluto & Uran.
Pluto in Aquarius can't come too soon, imo.
 
Last edited:

dhundhun

Well-known member
It is wise to use Pluto, when it falls in cardinal house. For that matter, use of Eris also if in cardinal house can give clues for events happening. Also wise to use, when Progressed MC or ASC or the Sun is crossing PLUTO.

On many occasions, like transits, or if it is placed in cadent house, its effect is negligible and not felt.
 
Top