Pluto conjunct U,K Sun 10 degrees Capricorn

ptolomy

Well-known member
Rebecca Brookes is arrested at midday and taken into custody at midday,some concerned this will jeopardise what she can say at select committee meeting next Tuesday.
also: this evening

Sir Paul Stephenson metropolitan police commissioner,head of Scotland yard, resigns over controversy to do with his connection to former 'News of the World' executive Neil Wallace through employing him just weeks after investigation into Wallace by new Scotland yard failed to prosecute him.
 

Munch

Well-known member
I know! I just read! Yowzer.

Of course, I'm incredibly interested in the USA since it's home and we have our own fair share of nonsense.

Looks like the USA is facing a Saturn Return soon, so maybe everything going on over here is a bit of a pre-amble to the real show?

The square from Uranus to our nation's Jupiter and Venus makes me think that there are going to be some very unexpected and extremely big shocks coming up! Specifically, I wonder if a debt ceiling agreement will not be reached and we will begin to default on our obligations. This is especially true if you use the Whole Sign System which then puts this Venus and Jupiter in the 8th house. This would also put transiting Pluto in the 2nd house.
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
John Yates another senior officer from the police force resigns,He was responsible for the previous phone hacking enquiry which critics say was not a very thorough investigation.
also:
David Cameron PM is still dogged by his employment of ex 'News of the World' editor Andy Coulson.Some say his connection through employment of this man is restricting him taking command of the phone hacking investigation.
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Markets around the world very jittery still over uncertainty of what the EU finance ministers presently meeting decide to do about 2nd bail out for Greece.
Many currencies(Euro,Pound and Dollar) finish considerably down at end of day.
Decision on bail out for Greece in 3 days time.
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Last night an ex News of the World journalist was found dead,the body of ex show business journalist Sean Hoare,the 1st journalist who alleged that ex no 10 spin doctor Andy Coulson was aware of phone hacking,was found dead in his flat this morning,his death is not thought to be suspicious,but mr Hoare's whistleblowing status could intensify public anger at the phone hacking scandal already called a fire-storm by David Cameron.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
Thanks for the updates, ptolomy, and keep them coming. All the `main action' is occurring while I sleep, although the parliamentary hearing is being shown live on TV here.

Amazing times!!
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Today for the 1st time Rupert Murdoch and his son are questioned together by the Culture select committee hearing into phone hacking at the news of the world.
Murdoch Sr starts off "a bit like an old confused man in an old peoples home" quote.He blames everyone else in the paper for what happened but accepts no responsibility himself,His son James also denies any knowledge of hacking until recently.A protester almost hits Murdoch Sr in the face with a shaving foam pie but is stopped by Ruperts wife Wendi Deng.Later Rupert answers less quickly and admits nothing incriminating.
Rebecca Brooks is questioned separately later and gives nothing significant away either.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/19/phone-hacking-select-committee-verdict
The 2 police commissioners who resigned yesterday were also questioned this morning(see previous day).
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
Today at prime ministers question time David Cameron the prime minister is critised by the opposition leader Ed Miliband over employing ex news of the world editor Andy Coulson as his spin doctor and ignoring all the people who warned him many times that Coulson had a bad reputation.Cameron says he wont apologise over employing Coulson until Coulson is proven guilty.
Cameron denies also having inappropriate conversations with Rupert Murdoch and Rebecca Brookes in the past.He is asked more than a dozen times about negotiations with Murdoch over his plans to acquire BSkyB,He appears to be avoiding the questions.Many say there was a cosy relationship between the Govt. police and 'News International' where criminality of the news group was ignored.Cameron admits in hindsight he would not have employed Andy Coulson if he knew then what he knows now.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/20/phone-hacking-commons-debate-highlights
Also today worries in the EU over the consequences of failing to bail out Greece for 2nd time could lead to serious consequences world wide says Manuel Barrosso.http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n255124
 

Neptune Rising

Well-known member
Thanks for the updates Ptolomy.
After listening to astrologer Alexander von Schlieffen in London last month give a talk about Neptune, I feel that the recent and ongoing News of the World scandal is very Neptune into Pisces related. While Neptune was in Aquarius, it was in it's own 12th house, making illusions very hard to see. But now its in its 1st house, they can come out in the open. Its moving back to Aqua for the last time in a long time, will be interesting to see what comes out when it goes back to Pisces. I think this is just a taste of things to come :D
 

Kuntuzangmo

Well-known member
Yes, pluto in capricorn is doing its job. I suspect we will continue to see so many challenges, very significant ones, emerge in governments etc... all over the planet. I was watching about news of the world the other day, and the debt situation in the usa etc....and it finally dawned on me: this is really great. All these crucial issues are coming to the fore and being examined in great detail by all sides. If nothing else, what an amazing education opportunity! And these forces are making the superfluous fall away and the essential gets strengthened. When the process is resisted, there is pain. When the process is accepted and encouraged there is wonderful expansion of understanding in a more stable and true way.
Pluto only recently went retrograde over my natal moon/saturn conj. I had thought it was finally over but no, it needed to do a once over again. The insecurities that came during that long and challenging transit don't have to be indulged again as I've seen how it plays out. Life goes on. Perhaps in a way that we couldn't foresee or control. I think that we will see such dynamics play out many times over on the world stage in the years to come.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
EU finance ministers agree on a 2nd bail out plan to help Greece,Market is presently responding well to bail out plan.

Why wouldn't the Market respond well? Greece is a tiny country of 11 Million people with a GDP of $350 Billion. Greece borrowed $100 Billion and cannot pay it back in a timely fashion.

That $100 Billion is 0.625% of the EU GDP.

Would you commit suicide by jumping off the roof of a building because you lost half a penny?

It's important to keep things in the proper perspective. Greece needs the EU, but the EU doesn't need Greece, and it doesn't need any of the other 11 countries that are on the verge, cusp or brink of economic problems.

All 11 of those countries aren't even 8% of the EU GDP.

If only the US would be so lucky as to have a "Greece" problem.

Yes, pluto in capricorn is doing its job. I suspect we will continue to see so many challenges, very significant ones, emerge in governments etc... all over the planet.

That would not be the correct signification of Pluto in Capricorn.

If a given country has a Capricorn 10th House, then it's government may be effected. If not, then the government is not affected.

Although the Sibley Chart is incorrect, the actual US Chart does have Sagittarius-Rising, and so you can use it to see the effects of Outer Transit Planets by House (although the timing will be off).

Since the US has a Capricorn 2nd House, the effects of Pluto in Capricorn will be near identical to the last transit of Capricorn by Pluto. During that transit, Colonial society was restructured. That is the reason Cornwallis did not invade the southern Colonies during the War of Colonial Independence. Colonists in Carolina and Georgia lost their land during Capricorn transit, and so there was already a civil war taking place by the time Cornwallis got there, with Tories fighting the rebels who were fighting the displaced land owners who were fighting the Tories.

For those counties that have a Capricorn 2nd or 8th House, you see economic turmoil going all the way back to the Pluto transit in the 3rd Century CE, when Emperor Diocletian issued price control edicts because of the severe commodity shortages.

In the American Colonies during the Pluto Capricorn transit, you saw trade with Great Britain come to a virtual halt, and coupled with the severe drought in the Mid-Atlantic Colonies, near-famine conditions.

Because the American Colonies had nothing to trade to Great Britain, Great Britain was losing income, and so ramped up the taxes. Among the first was the Stamp Tax Act which led to creation of the Stamp Tax Congress, then later tax acts which led to things like the Boston Tea Party and such.

When the drought finally ends and the near bankrupt farmers have crops to sell, they can't because the War of Colonial Independence is blocking trade to Great Britain. The farmers reluctantly sell their crops on credit to the Continental Congress.

The Continental Congress then defaulted on their debts, further humiliating the farmers who made no money during the 10-year drought and now lost all they had. They are humiliated again when the Congress of the Articles of Confederation levies high taxes on them, resulting in the Whiskey Rebellion, Shay's Rebellion, and dozens of other rebellions that most Americans have never heard mention in history books.

Those rebellions of course, ultimately lead to the creation of the US Constitution.

What Pluto restructures depends on where Pluto is transiting in the chart, so not all countries are experiencing economic turmoil or problems with government at this time.

If you have the correct chart, you should be able to trace events back in time and find the same signification. There's an upcoming Pluto/Mercury contact in the UK chart and you should be able to go back to January 1770, December 1524 and October 1279 and take signification from those events. They will all be the same event, although it will have manifested itself slightly different because of the placement of the other Planets.

It mst have been the effect of eclipse since it happened so sudden and fast to the point of no turning back!

The July 1 Eclipse was in Cancer, which is Below Horizon in the Chart I use for the United Kingdom, and so has no effect on the UK.

The next Eclipse that will have an impact on the United Kingdom is April 25, 2013, a Lunar Eclipse at 5° Scorpio that falls in the 12th House conjunct Retrograde Saturn and in opposition to Mars in Taurus, with Mars as 1st Triplicity Ruler of the Government's 4th House, 8th House and 12th Houses, and Jupiter ruler of the Government's 8th House in the Chart's 8th House in Detriment in Gemini.

I'll be commenting on that Event at an appropriate time.
 

Munch

Well-known member
Bob, you put me to shame with your knowledge of American history.

Thanks for weighing in on this! It's certainly 'interesting' times over here. I've kinda had it with our "leaders."

Do you think that we'll default? Is there a chance that we'll end up ditching the Fed? *crosses fingers and hopes with everything within herself that we shall*

On a personal note, I wonder if all of these hits that the USA is taking will affect me personally since my sun is in Exact opposition to that of the US. Granted, that means that Pluto is in my sun sign, but it won't transit my sun for a few years yet (though it is off and on my IC).

Thanks again Bob! Super happy you weighed in. :smile:
 

Caro

Well-known member
I did read this. There are a number of MP's trying to highlight the economic problems and take the focus away from hacking.

mars moves into cancer in August sometime at beginning for two months. wow this is going to be a long hot summer!:pinched:
 

Munch

Well-known member
Ahh, but the REAL story in the USA came to light last night.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html

A 'Super Congress' has been proposed. This 'Super Congress' would be able to fast track anything through congress and effectively negates the checks and balances of our legislative system. I think this would be that Uranian influence that I was looking for. Totally unexpected and totally *******. A few of us (myself quite vocally) are expressing a desire to uphold the passage in our Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

I very literally want to push to have our entire congress and the president brought up on charges of treason. It is getting downright ridiculous.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
Bob, you put me to shame with your knowledge of American history.

I didn't learn that in high school. That was university and going to State/county historical sites (researching charts).

The fact that 80% of the Colonists in a particular colony-turned-State isn't exactly glamorous. Most of the States hide, romanticize and exaggerate their involvement in the War of Colonial Independence (for obvious reasons).

Do you think that we'll default?

It's really a moot point.

A recession is inevitable, it's only how you arrive there that is in doubt. If the debt ceiling is not raised, then budget cuts are forced and the US goes into a recession, and if the debt ceiling is raised, then interest on treasury bills, bonds and notes rises, the cost to service the debt increases, and forced budget cuts occur to service the debt.

The US has spent $12 TRILLION in the last 3 years and the result has been an increase in GDP of $500 Billion. Spending at ratio of 24:1 is unsustainable, but that spending is the only reason the US is not in recession.

Once spending is cut, the recession starts in about 90-120 days.

Obama could order all federal departments, offices and agencies to cease spending, because they have not spent their entire budgets yet (and they don't until September) and that cover the rather small $29 Billion the US pays in interest each month on its outstanding treasury bills, notes and bonds.

Is there a chance that we'll end up ditching the Fed?

The Federal Reserve is a central bank, in fact, the central bank, and it does the exact same thing every other central bank on Earth does.

It basically tries to fix the mistakes Congress makes when spends recklessly, which is something Congress has been doing for a few decades, while Americans looked the other way.

The US has about $200 TRILLION in liabilities though the year 2050, including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, federal employee pensions, State, county and city employee pensions, private pension plans, your badly-in-need-of-repair Interstate Highway and US Route System, and your electrical grid, and about a half-dozen other things that you have to pay.

You didn't have the money 20 years ago, you don't have it now, and you will never that much money. Americans have been writing checks they can't possibly cash.

Your global work-force cannot compete against the global work-forces of other [developing] countries in part because the average American wage is 125 times higher than the rest of the world and that is something that cannot be ameliorated in a matter of days, weeks, months or even years.

It will take 50-60 years for the wages of the rest of the world to catch up as the wages of the US [global] work-force decline to reach an equilibrium point, and that will result in a decline of the US domestic work-force (which is under no threat of competition from foreign global or domestic work-forces).

It will not be pretty.

Vince Cable MP expresses concern that America might default on its debts leading to a new world recession.

The default will not cause a world recession, but raising or not raising the debt ceiling makes no difference as the US will have a recession soon enough.

Will that trigger a world recession? I don't think so. What you are more likely to see is "rolling recessions."

If you want more on that, go back to the last Pluto transit of Capricorn. A rolling recession in India resulted in the collapse of the British East India Trading Company.

That caused a "credit crunch" which subsequently resulted in "rolling recessions" throughout Europe and Asia, but a major recession in the American Colonies (all of them -- British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch etc).

Some European countries were not affected. Russia and France were not. However, go back to the Pluto transit of Capricorn in the 1280s and France went bankrupt (but that chart no longer applies to France).

There was a drought in the American Mid-Atlantic Colonies that created near-famine conditions, but in Scandinavia, the Low Countries and the German principalities it was more severe. Without cash, they couldn't import food, so several million died.

Those rolling recessions didn't affect all countries at the same time, rather they rolled back and forth affecting different countries at different times, sometimes more than once, and again, not every country was affected.

In addition to France, Portugal and Spain got away unscathed and undamaged, but you can't say that now, because the country natal charts in effect for those countries at that time don't apply now.

The Italian City-States in existence at that time were only marginally affected, and the same for China and Japan.
 

ptolomy

Well-known member
I think that the west's world superiority is coming to an inevitable end.All empires eventually end and are replaced by a new world leader.The new one in this case is likely to be China.People with wealth around the world who want to hold onto it will inevitably put their money into the best bet for a return on their investment,and this is China at the moment followed by all the other B,R,I,C,S countries.The UK lost its world dominance a long time ago to America,Now Americas time has come to relinquish its power.Witness the end of the space shuttle programme the other day.This is a sign that the USA cannot afford such luxuries any more and it is expected that in future Russia will deliver US astronauts to the space station.Also all the revolutions in the middle East and surrounding areas with the so called 'Arab spring' shows how the US is loosing its control of the region through such methods as previously propping up people like President Mubarak in Egypt.
Pluto transiting Capricorn is the main instigator of this process(though Uranus also has a major part in this process),It will bring down the EU first as it conjuncts the EU sun and the UK sun as well(approximately 10 degrees cap),Then because the US sun is opposite in cancer and at 13:19 cancer there will be a delay before the USA moves into a lower league as it is opposed by Pluto.
I would expect a major stage in the shift in power during August as Mars moves into cancer and forms the grand cross with Saturn,Uranus and Pluto,All the signs at the moment show the EU,UK and US economies at breaking point.A new world power structure is in process ,it will take many years to settle down,but we are presently seeing a major stage in the process.
 

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