Paradox in 1st House

Hello everyone :)

I have a question regarding my position of Saturn and Uranus in the 1st House.
Uranus represents abrupt and sudden, even ephemeral metamorphosis.
Whilst Saturn on the other hand represents something slow and steady and unshakeable. Saturn is very close to my asc, wich is in scorpio (moon on the asc btw) and Uranus is also within close proximity.
All my life i have felt like i was without purpose and without worth.
I have purposely chosen to not experience things that could have been nurturing for me, because i feel like i need to punish myself. I punish myself by not meeting people or going out or doing things i desire to do, even by prefering to sit or lie in a way that hurts my body when i'm in a state of inexorable rest.
In simpler terms i have an inferiority complex the size of Jupiter!
And even though i sometimes try to do things differently, i always conclude that i shouldn't have tried, because i knew it would end the way it did and i knew that i was not fit to do this project.
I have not been intimate with anyone for 2 years now, and i miss it to death, but i suppress it because i feel that i am not worthy of anyones touch.
But then i have the eccentric celestial sphere called Uranus in my first house aswell, and when i read about it it contradicts saturn in many ways.
I feel that i am a combination of both, but i think that saturn is too vicious and too cruel and has even uranus' powers of transformation and change under chains, even though i have a history of suddenly finding myself in totally bizarre and alien situations that i purposely put myself in just to see how i would handle them, and i suppose i handle them exceedingly well, because i feel that i have the power to transform, but saturn always seems to destory the aspects of the experience that i could grow from and reduce it to nothing...i am at a loss for words and i am frustrated by this. is there hope foe a person with these two planets in first house?
Anyone else with these planets in 1st house?
 
Welcome to AW,
I am assuming saturn and uranus have 'other aspects' other than this conjunction?? would you care to post your chart for us to proper evalute?
I call this one freedom (uranus) v convention (saturn)

Saturn‑Uranus Conjunction
Fear of the unknown ! Should try and learn to accept change.

Two very conflicting factors are brought together here; a need to carve out an identity for ourselves, to define limits and to preserve form (Saturn), and a need to break structures, to overstep limits and to develop individuality (Uranus). Clearly this will sometimes make it difficult to decide whether to preserve or to destroy
From the book ‘Aspects and Personality’ by Karen Hamaker-Zondag

Whenever we are engaged in giving life a certain shape (Saturn), we suffer from the urge to break out of or alter this shape (Uranus) and so we become tense and restless. Attempts to bring about change are impeded by a desire to proceed along fixed lines or according to a set pattern. There is no stagnation with this conjunction, but a restless activity continually generated from within, which can make the native feel insecure.
From the book ‘Aspects and Personality’ by Karen Hamaker-Zondag

Re: Need some education: Which charts to use when?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514

Beginning to Study Astrology
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154469&postcount=10
http://www.soulhealing.com/tutorialwest.htm
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-glyphs.php

How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

what members like to see in a thread – help forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25930
 
Here is my chart...I hope I did it right.

Thank you for your reply and interest :)

Looking forward to learning more and maby even aid others :)

Hmmm, strange, I see in this chart that my moon in scorpio is in 12th house and not 1st, wich is the house that i have grown accustomed to think of as the position of my moon.
 

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See it's not saturn that's the problem it's uranus being apex for common T Square. Saturn & uranus and NOT conjunct either.....

Saturn is very close to my asc, wich is in scorpio (moon on the asc btw)

To me saturn at 11' away from Asc is *not conjunct or that close* BUT it is unaspected...

unspected planets
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://www.innerself.com/Astrology/unaspected.htm
http://classiclegendbooks.com/martinschulman-astrology-articles-17-unaspected-planets-1.html
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-unaspectedplanets.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Unaspected.htm
http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/unaspected/unaspected.htm
http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/dde3467b-df04-4a45-94c8-7aeb8e91e741

You have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus and I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_house_system#Equal_House
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
For further research try here...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3280&highlight=placidus+equal
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=638&highlight=house+system
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=152849#post152849
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=189223#post189223

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

Now in Equal house your venus and pluto would be 12th house, Jupiter would be 4th and sun/mercury would be 10th house, so massive changes there....

Also, IF you were born 4minutes earlier your Moon would be first house, making you very much more *sensitive* but sooo tightly conj Asc suggest you will feel this nontheless

Moon in Conjunction to Ascendant
Your upbringing had a strong effect on your outlook on life and thus your personality. Moods can shift from high to low because you so easily sense whatever is going on in your environment, whether positive or negative. You're also sensitive, emotional and psychic in a feeling kind of way.
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectsmoon.htm

to research uranus aspects try here..
Natal chart aspects
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/sunaspects.html
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/planetsaspectsastrology.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_aspect_e.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectsreference.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/aspectssun.htm
http://astrologynotes.org/wiki/Sun_aspects
http://www.astrologyindepth.com/Special:prefixindex/category:
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm
http://www.theastrologicalaspects.com/
http://www.strangehouse.com/natal-aspects/index.php

planets in houses
http://www.horoscopeswithin.com/planetsinhouses.php
Houses/signs are like the backdrop of a stage/theatre, planets in houses behave like actors on a stage, the *aspects* show how these planets/actor behave in a house

Bowl chart
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/Bowl.htm
http://www.myastrologybook.com/Bowl-planetary-pattern-astrology.htm
http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resources/articles/getarticle.asp?ID=128
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/planetary-patterns.php
http://www.astrococktail.com/planetaryorderIII.html
 
Thank you so much for your time and direction. I am currently reading through and writing down lots of things i did not know or fully understand prior to your last reply. It really is helping me.
I am shure i will get to the bottom of this evt. but i have to ask, should i take into account that the chart i have been reading and trying to understand for the last year, wich happened to be the placidus form, is not accurate?
I am going through the links right at this moment, so i will undoubtedly understand in due time.

Thank you so much :)

There is just one thing, when reading about sun and mercury in 10th house, i really feel like i am reading about someone else. I felt more at home and less alienated whilst trying to understand the sun and mrc in 9th house, but the 10th feels utterly out of place. As does moon in 12th, even though i can see myself in some of the descriptions, but i also feel reflected whilst reading about moon in1st, but as you said, it is very close to my asc...

Sun in 10th house is supposed to make me into the type of person that greatly cares about my career and recognition. But i am the most introverted and isolated person i know, and the only career i can percieve through some misty veil is that of a composer or orchestral arranger, but that means that i need to break through all these negative and inferior feelings i have regarding myself. But it is not something i spend my mental capacity to think about, for i am too busy helping my sick grandmother and to study a range of different subjects by myself,just for the fun of it. i am always the listener and observer in any crowd and situation and i always feel ill at ease in any social situation. so really, the word career is a foreign concept to me.
I feel more like i have sun in 9th house, i feel it fits me perfectly in fact.
And mercury in 10th house is supposed to make me a person with excellent rethorical skills...but i have had a terribe stutter scince i was little and i never speak publicly and never have. I never managed to utter an intelligible syllable during my 11 years of obligated school. The teachers even thought i was a lost case and that i was stupid...so there must be something wrong. i cannot have sun and merc in 10th house.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thank you so much for your time and direction. I am currently reading through and writing down lots of things i did not know or fully understand prior to your last reply. It really is helping me.
I am shure i will get to the bottom of this evt. but i have to ask, should i take into account that the chart i have been reading and trying to understand for the last year, wich happened to be the placidus form, is not accurate?
I am going through the links right at this moment, so i will undoubtedly understand in due time.

Thank you so much :)

There is just one thing, when reading about sun and mercury in 10th house, i really feel like i am reading about someone else. I felt more at home and less alienated whilst trying to understand the sun and mrc in 9th house, but the 10th feels utterly out of place. As does moon in 12th, even though i can see myself in some of the descriptions, but i also feel reflected whilst reading about moon in1st, but as you said, it is very close to my asc...

There are so many paradoxes Endymion09! This link explains that there are over forty House Systems, so basically, depending on the particular House System chosen your planets appear in varying houses! So one House System shows your Sun and Mercury in 9th House, whereas another shows your Sun and Mercury in the 10th house! Neither is 'right or wrong' both can work - you can choose the House System that 'works best for you' http://nashvillepsychics.blogspot.com/2010/12/tangled-web-of-astrological-house.html
 
Thank you so much for your time and direction. I am currently reading through and writing down lots of things i did not know or fully understand prior to your last reply. It really is helping me.
I am shure i will get to the bottom of this evt. but i have to ask, should i take into account that the chart i have been reading and trying to understand for the last year, wich happened to be the placidus form, is not accurate?
I am going through the links right at this moment, so i will undoubtedly understand in due time.

Thank you so much :)

There is just one thing, when reading about sun and mercury in 10th house, i really feel like i am reading about someone else. I felt more at home and less alienated whilst trying to understand the sun and mrc in 9th house, but the 10th feels utterly out of place. As does moon in 12th, even though i can see myself in some of the descriptions, but i also feel reflected whilst reading about moon in1st, but as you said, it is very close to my asc...[and would be interpreted as if in 1st whatever house system you look at]

Sun in 10th house is supposed to make me into the type of person that greatly cares about my career and recognition. But i am the most introverted and isolated person i know, and the only career i can percieve through some misty veil is that of a composer or orchestral arranger, but that means that i need to break through all these negative and inferior feelings i have regarding myself. But it is not something i spend my mental capacity to think about, for i am too busy helping my sick grandmother and to study a range of different subjects by myself,just for the fun of it. i am always the listener and observer in any crowd and situation and i always feel ill at ease in any social situation. so really, the word career is a foreign concept to me.

Virgo MC is not particularly extrovert or sociable, and Scorpio Asc can be reclusive to, mainly due to fact it doesn't want other people knowing it's business.

I feel more like i have sun in 9th house, i feel it fits me perfectly in fact.
And mercury in 10th house is supposed to make me a person with excellent rethorical skills...but i have had a terribe stutter scince i was little and i never speak publicly and never have. I never managed to utter an intelligible syllable during my 11 years of obligated school. The teachers even thought i was a lost case and that i was stupid...so there must be something wrong. i cannot have sun and merc in 10th house.

Also having venus/pluto in 12th (Equal house) would make you a more private person and need time alone

Mercury in 9th House

Your mental and communicative abilities will largely be applied to the expansion of the intellect through foreign travel, philosophy, higher education and other profound studies. Your mental disposition is well-suited to positions of authority; likely occupations could include law, religion, science, medicine, teaching, literature and philosophy. You may have a deep desire to reach a position of intellectual superiority in your chosen field.
http://www.horoscopeswithin.com/mercuryinhouses.php
Mercury in 10th House

Your mental and communicative abilities will largely be applied to professional worldly ambitions where knowledge and education are pursued in order to enhance career prospects or social standing. Your mental qualities are well-suited to managerial posts, government positions, politics and any work requiring communication skill and executive ability. With this placing of Mercury financial security, professional prestige and social status are the dominant mental issues.
http://www.horoscopeswithin.com/mercuryinhouses.php

Sun in 10th house is supposed to make me into the type of person that greatly cares about my career and recognition. But i am the most introverted and isolated person i know, and the only career i can percieve through some misty veil is that of a composer or orchestral arranger, but that means that i need to break through all these negative and inferior feelings i have regarding myself.
sun/mercury in 10th is also*'what your become known for* in society. With Virgo it would be behind the scenes focusing on details, and details. I bet you have a perfectionist streak in you to. So if people met you for the first time, what would precede you? your reputations perhaps? what are you known for?

Now although there poss maybe around 40house systems, 98% on here either use the default on astro.com and don't know any better, or use Equal house.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_house_system#Equal_House
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
For further research try here...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3280&highlight=placidus+equal
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=638&highlight=house+system
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=152849#post152849
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=189223#post189223

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

lastly, Jupiter in 4th house (Equal ) and retrograde tends to introversion and in 4th it's all about family, family and family and quite poss a largish house, even slightly elevated or corner plot even
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Here is my chart...I hope I did it right.

Thank you for your reply and interest :)

Looking forward to learning more and maby even aid others :)

Hmmm, strange, I see in this chart that my moon in scorpio is in 12th house and not 1st, wich is the house that i have grown accustomed to think of as the position of my moon.

It seems strange to you endymion09, but there is no 'right or wrong house position for your natal moon'so here's a helpful explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology) :smile:
 
It seems strange to you endymion09, but there is no 'right or wrong house position for your natal moon'so here's a helpful explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_%28astrology%29 :smile:

Why are you posting yet another link for *house systems* when discussing her moon position? There is ample evidence of planets conjunct a house cusp suggesting it be interpreted in the next house along with 5' orb


Planets conjunct a house cusp
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202304&postcount=7
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=205033#post205033
Planets conj House cusp
“Ascendant at 15’ Libra and Jupiter 13’ Libra. That would place Jupiter in the 12th house, right? But many thoughtful astrologers would read this as Jupiter being conjunction with Ascendant, and end up reading it as bringing its action to bear in the first house, rather than in the 12th.
This same idea would apply for each and every house cusp. If the planet is IN THE SAME SIGN as the sign on the next house cusp, and close enough to be CONJUNCT WITH that next house cusp, the action of the planet will be directed into oncoming house”
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/inhouses.html

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14887

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=125412&postcount=4

Ptolemy says the influence of the house begins to be felt 5° before the actual cusp.
http://www.astrologycom.com/houses.html

“Astrologers have seen a body influencing the house it is about to enter, time and time again. All theorizing aside, the planet casting its shadow ahead works. I can speak from personal experience, as well as reading ancient texts. If you discover this as true, then the next question may be, "Just how close must a body be to a cusp before it begins to be felt in the neighboring house?"
I've seen some authors say 3 degrees. I've seen some that give 5 degrees. I have seen some that even give 8 degrees. And there may be other variations.” http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/90c9f417-5086-4ff0-b31f-c904fe99baca
 
my point is that obviously the moon position is dependent on the choice of House system. :smile:


Well actually it's NOT her moon is smack on the Asc in ANY house system :cool: and the majority of members would agree that anything within 5' orb of a house cusp has more value and is interpreted as if in the next house along. It has 'nothing' to do with house systems at all!! why are you so obsessed
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Well actually it's NOT her moon is smack on the Asc in ANY house system :cool: and the majority of members would agree that anything within 5' orb of a house cusp has more value and is interpreted as if in the next house along. It has 'nothing' to do with house systems at all!! why are you so obsessed


The moon's position can have much to do with the house system in use and furthermore, the moon's position can well be dependent upon the house system in use, therefore it is clear that the moon is most definitely NOT 'smack on the Asc in ANY house system'....

(For example, did you ever hear of the heliocentric chart? Just in case you did not, then here's a helpful link for you http://www.heliocentric-astrology.com/ :smile: )
 

wilsontc

Staff member
get back to the astrological interpretation, to all

All,

Please do not debate house systems here. That is a subject for the "Houses & cusps" forum. Keep the focus on interpreting the given chart and on giving feedback that is helpful to the OP.

Back on subject,

Tim
 
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