oriental and occidental planets

booboo

Well-known member
Pretty much what I've understood so far is only that oriental planets have more masculine energy and occidental-feminine and traditionally its said that its positive only for Moon/Mercury/Venus to be occidental in a chart. Okay but what happens for instance if all the planets are occidental? If anyone knows where I can read more on the subject I'd be grateful :)
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Pretty much what I've understood so far is only that
oriental planets have more masculine energy
and
occidental-feminine
and traditionally its said that its positive only for Moon/Mercury/Venus to be occidental in a chart.
Okay but what happens for instance if all the planets are occidental?
If anyone knows where I can read more on the subject I'd be grateful
:)
Oriental / Occidental


'…. 'occident' is from Latin for west, originally meaning 'falling', 'setting' or 'perishing' (as in sunset); 'orient' is from Latin for east, originally meaning 'rising' or 'emerging', (as in sunrise).

If 'oriental of the Sun' it means planet precedes Sun in diurnal motion, and appears in the east in the morning, rising before the Sun. Similarly, 'occidental of Sun' means planet follows sun by diurnal motion, and comes into view after sunset.

If described as 'oriental in the figure', it means planet is near ascendant which is the eastern angle, whilst 'occidental in the figure', means planet is located near descendant which is the western angle.....'


http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/oriental.html :smile:



'…...Occidental hemisphere is western/setting hemisphere, incorporating 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th houses.

Oriental hemisphere = eastern/rising hemisphere, incorporating 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 12th, and 11th houses.

Occidental quarter = quadrant of chart that falls beneath western horizon, incorporating 4th, 5th and 6th houses. Also known as the phlegmatic quarter.

Oriental quarter = quadrant of chart that rises from eastern horizon, incorporating 1st, 12th and 11th houses. Also known as the sanguine quarter......'
 

booboo

Well-known member
Yes I read that already but it is only about oriental planets and I didn't find explanations for the occidental planets. Does that mean that they are of minor value and you should look more at the oriental planets and if that is so what would happen if all the planets in a chart are occidental?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
'…...Inadequate understanding of meaning of traditional texts meaning of 'oriental' and 'occidental'
is discussed by Ben Dykes in introduction to Bonatti’s Book of Astronomy.
Ben Dykes sets out three different ways in which astrological literature used the terms oriental and occidental :smile:


1. Planets are ‘oriental’ if rising visibly before Sun, and ‘occidental’ if setting visibly after Sun.

2. Planets are ‘oriental’ if in ‘eastern’ quadrant between Ascendant and Midheaven
( i.e., where the Sun rises) or the one opposite to it,
and
‘occidental’ if on ‘western’ quadrant between Midheaven and 7th
( i.e.,when the Sun sets) or the one opposite to it.....'



'….3. Planets are ‘oriental’ if currently , or within 7 days before or after nativity,
are rising out of Sun’s beams and will become visible at sunrise or sunset
Planets are ‘ occidental’ if currently, or within seven days before or after the nativity,
are sinking into Sun’s beams and will become invisible at sunrise or sunset.
Hellenistic astrology calls this ‘making a phasis’ ,
and
distance from Sun at which arising or sinking occurred,
was standardised at 15º.
So inferiors can be ‘oriental’ (or pertaining–to-arising)
on either side of Sun,
since they can arise both while going direct and on their retrograde path......'

(Book of Astronomy, Guido Bonatti, translated by Benjamin Dykes, 2007, page Ixxxii-Ixxxiii)


'…...Ben Dykes states the latter approach had already fallen out of use even by Bonatti’s day.
However, he suggests the third definition found in Hellenistic astrology
was vital in the development of the medieval distinction
between ‘combust’ and ‘under the beams’ of the Sun.
Thus a planet rising out of Sun’s beams within seven days
(approximately 8 degrees from the Sun)
would be outside the usual definition of combust......'
 

roz

Well-known member
'…...Inadequate understanding of meaning of traditional texts meaning of 'oriental' and 'occidental'
is discussed by Ben Dykes in introduction to Bonatti’s Book of Astronomy.
Ben Dykes sets out three different ways in which astrological literature used the terms oriental and occidental :smile:


1. Planets are ‘oriental’ if rising visibly before Sun, and ‘occidental’ if setting visibly after Sun.

2. Planets are ‘oriental’ if in ‘eastern’ quadrant between Ascendant and Midheaven
( i.e., where the Sun rises) or the one opposite to it,
and
‘occidental’ if on ‘western’ quadrant between Midheaven and 7th
( i.e.,when the Sun sets) or the one opposite to it.....'



'….3. Planets are ‘oriental’ if currently , or within 7 days before or after nativity,
are rising out of Sun’s beams and will become visible at sunrise or sunset
Planets are ‘ occidental’ if currently, or within seven days before or after the nativity,
are sinking into Sun’s beams and will become invisible at sunrise or sunset.
Hellenistic astrology calls this ‘making a phasis’ ,
and
distance from Sun at which arising or sinking occurred,
was standardised at 15º.
So inferiors can be ‘oriental’ (or pertaining–to-arising)
on either side of Sun,
since they can arise both while going direct and on their retrograde path......'

(Book of Astronomy, Guido Bonatti, translated by Benjamin Dykes, 2007, page Ixxxii-Ixxxiii)


'…...Ben Dykes states the latter approach had already fallen out of use even by Bonatti’s day.
However, he suggests the third definition found in Hellenistic astrology
was vital in the development of the medieval distinction
between ‘combust’ and ‘under the beams’ of the Sun.
Thus a planet rising out of Sun’s beams within seven days
(approximately 8 degrees from the Sun)
would be outside the usual definition of combust......'

I'm just more confused now.. I thought there was only 1 oriental planet in a chart that worked as a "guiding planet"? Can there be more? Is mercury oriental in my chart?
 

Attachments

  • fullchart.jpg
    fullchart.jpg
    138.8 KB · Views: 34

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

I'm just more confused now..
I thought there was only 1 oriental planet in a chart that worked as a "guiding planet"?
Can there be more?
Is mercury oriental in my chart?
Thoroughly read the information
because
the answers to those questions are all there
once you have taken time to study the information
you then can then apply it to your own natal chart
it is a useful exercise in gaining understanding
of orientality and occidentality


i.e.

'…...Inadequate understanding of meaning of traditional texts meaning of 'oriental' and 'occidental'
is discussed by Ben Dykes in introduction to Bonatti’s Book of Astronomy.
Ben Dykes sets out three different ways in which astrological literature used the terms oriental and occidental :smile:


1. Planets are ‘oriental’ if rising visibly before Sun, and ‘occidental’ if setting visibly after Sun.

2. Planets are ‘oriental’ if in ‘eastern’ quadrant between Ascendant and Midheaven
( i.e., where the Sun rises) or the one opposite to it,
and
‘occidental’ if on ‘western’ quadrant between Midheaven and 7th
( i.e.,when the Sun sets) or the one opposite to it.....'



'….3. Planets are ‘oriental’ if currently , or within 7 days before or after nativity,
are rising out of Sun’s beams and will become visible at sunrise or sunset
Planets are ‘ occidental’ if currently, or within seven days before or after the nativity,
are sinking into Sun’s beams and will become invisible at sunrise or sunset.
Hellenistic astrology calls this ‘making a phasis’ ,
and
distance from Sun at which arising or sinking occurred,
was standardised at 15º.
So inferiors can be ‘oriental’ (or pertaining–to-arising)
on either side of Sun,
since they can arise both while going direct and on their retrograde path......'

(Book of Astronomy, Guido Bonatti, translated by Benjamin Dykes, 2007, page Ixxxii-Ixxxiii)


'…...Ben Dykes states the latter approach had already fallen out of use even by Bonatti’s day.
However, he suggests the third definition found in Hellenistic astrology
was vital in the development of the medieval distinction
between ‘combust’ and ‘under the beams’ of the Sun.
Thus a planet rising out of Sun’s beams within seven days
(approximately 8 degrees from the Sun)
would be outside the usual definition of combust......'
 

roz

Well-known member
Yeah you're right. I think I get it now.. All my planets except venus and jupiter are oriental I think.

Thoroughly read the information
because
the answers to those questions are all there
once you have taken time to study the information
you then can then apply it to your own natal chart
it is a useful exercise in gaining understanding
of orientality and occidentality


i.e.

'…...Inadequate understanding of meaning of traditional texts meaning of 'oriental' and 'occidental'
is discussed by Ben Dykes in introduction to Bonatti’s Book of Astronomy.
Ben Dykes sets out three different ways in which astrological literature used the terms oriental and occidental :smile:


1. Planets are ‘oriental’ if rising visibly before Sun, and ‘occidental’ if setting visibly after Sun.

2. Planets are ‘oriental’ if in ‘eastern’ quadrant between Ascendant and Midheaven
( i.e., where the Sun rises) or the one opposite to it,
and
‘occidental’ if on ‘western’ quadrant between Midheaven and 7th
( i.e.,when the Sun sets) or the one opposite to it.....'



'….3. Planets are ‘oriental’ if currently , or within 7 days before or after nativity,
are rising out of Sun’s beams and will become visible at sunrise or sunset
Planets are ‘ occidental’ if currently, or within seven days before or after the nativity,
are sinking into Sun’s beams and will become invisible at sunrise or sunset.
Hellenistic astrology calls this ‘making a phasis’ ,
and
distance from Sun at which arising or sinking occurred,
was standardised at 15º.
So inferiors can be ‘oriental’ (or pertaining–to-arising)
on either side of Sun,
since they can arise both while going direct and on their retrograde path......'

(Book of Astronomy, Guido Bonatti, translated by Benjamin Dykes, 2007, page Ixxxii-Ixxxiii)


'…...Ben Dykes states the latter approach had already fallen out of use even by Bonatti’s day.
However, he suggests the third definition found in Hellenistic astrology
was vital in the development of the medieval distinction
between ‘combust’ and ‘under the beams’ of the Sun.
Thus a planet rising out of Sun’s beams within seven days
(approximately 8 degrees from the Sun)
would be outside the usual definition of combust......'
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Yeah you're right. I think I get it now..
All my planets except venus and jupiter are oriental I think.
QUOTE
ON THE STRENGTH OF THE PLANETS :smile:


'.... if it is one of the masculine planets: Saturn and Jupiter and Mars
rising eastern in the dawn.....

…..that the higher masculine planets
which are Saturn, Jupiter and Mars were oriental
that is that they would appear in the morning, going out from under the rays of the Sun
and
the feminine planets
that is Venus, Mercury and the Moon occidental
that is, appearing in the evening....'




From page 41 of the works of Sahl and Mash'Allah
Translated by Benjamin Dykes Ph.D
http://www.bendykes.com/sahl.php

where planetary strength information is given
 

greybeard

Well-known member
There is a great deal of confusion in the use of occidental and oriental in the literature, including the old writers.

There is no single definition for the terms, and the meanings are often contradictory. Great care to understand what an author means by "oriental" must always be exercised.

You have understood "the planet of oriental rising" as "the oriental planet". Your sources have not explained things fully.

"Oriental rising" is based on the diurnal motion of the Earth (primum mobile). For example, if Mercury rises before the Sun does (near dawn), then it is "oriental" to the Sun. The oriental planet "goes before" the Sun, acts "in advance" of him and so on. We might say that the planet of oriental rising is the herald of the Sun, goes ahead of him announcing his coming. The Sun's rays, or presence, emerge into the world through this planet of oriental rising.

I think some of the modern authors have overblown the importance of this position.

I'm not goiing to go into all the ins-and-outs of oriental and occidental here. You need to study this on your own.
 
Top