Orbs and Stuff

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grant12

Member
hello I was wondering if someone could assist me . I had a look at the SP500 Chart which is an American Index and for the point of this exercise I cast a chart for the 7th May 11.45am New York time 2021 which was the Top and then I cast a chart for the low which came in on the 12th May at 3.50pm New York time . In both charts I tried to get the time as accurate as possible which may be off by 5 minutes or so . In the first chart Saturn Geo is at 13 Deg 18" Aquarius and in the second chart corresponding to the low Mercury is at 13 Deg Gemini
 
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grant12

Member
sorry I accidentally pressed submit.

following on at the exact date of the low Geo Mercury is at 13 Deg 29" Gemini or trine the longitude of Saturn at the high . At the time of the low Geo Mercury was seperating so I went back to see when this aspect between the two planets was exact which occurred at 12.26pm one hour and 20 minutes before the actual low came in which can happen . At the time of the low the Moon was at 3 Deg 29" Gemini so that didn't really form any aspects to the top Natal chart either . any advice is appreciated thanks
 
DigitialDiva

DigitialDiva

Well-known member
greybeard said:
On Orbs and Stuff

Morin notes (1st half of 17th century) that “...how great this orb is for the individual planets has hitherto remained uncertain among astrologers, on account of the unknown fundamental of that quantity; whence, some attribute a greater orb to a particular planet and others a lesser orb, although they do not seem to differ much in turn.”

Morin then addresses the problem of establishing the semi-diameter of planetary orbs thus: The Sun, as is recognized even today by all astronomers, has a “semi-diameter of illumination” of 18°. Astronomical Twilight begins and ends when the Sun is 18° below the horizon; total darkness occurs only then. Morin then notes the Sun’s distance below the horizon when each of the planets becomes visible (or fades from visibility.) He gives 11°30’for Mars, 11° for Saturn, 10° for Jupiter and Mercury, and 5° for Venus. He then subtracts these values from 18° and so establishes the orb for each of the planets according to the strength of its brightness (at maximum.) Therefore the semi-diameters of the orbs of influence for each of the five planets is:

Venus, 13°; Jupiter and Mercury, 8°; for Saturn 7° and Mars, 6°30’.
The Moon is given 12°. The Sun, of course, receives 18°.
(Note that the sky in the times before the Industrial Revolution was crystalline, not dirty as it is today. Also note, Kepler had only recently published the meticulous naked-eye observations of Tycho Brahe and himself; these were available to Morin.)
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Hi Greybeard,

I follow scientific astrology where they did research and to prove everything out. I use narrow orbs and unweighted. 3 degrees for longitudes and 1degree 12 minutes for declination, 18 minutes for Latitudes.

So for above no increased orbs are permitted. They found there is no statistical influence once the planets are further than 3 degrees out of orb.
 
DigitialDiva

DigitialDiva

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
In some specialty applications (such as in my experiments with the 4/9 Name model in sports prediction, and in my use of the Lot of Substance in experiments with stock and futures price predictions) I use a fixed orb (of 5 degrees) for all aspects (including semi-sextile and quincunx), and for conjunctions, which (at least in these special applications) seem to work pretty well (so far)...
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I would like to hear more… another thread?
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
DigitialDiva said:
Hi Greybeard,
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Greybeard no longer posts :)

DigitialDiva said:
I follow scientific astrology where they did research and to prove everything out. I use narrow orbs and unweighted. 3 degrees for longitudes and 1degree 12 minutes for declination, 18 minutes for Latitudes.

So for above no increased orbs are permitted. They found there is no statistical influence once the planets are further than 3 degrees out of orb.
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dr. farr said:
In some specialty applications (such as in my experiments with the 4/9 Name model in sports prediction, and in my use of the Lot of Substance in experiments with stock and futures price predictions) I use a fixed orb (of 5 degrees) for all aspects (including semi-sextile and quincunx), and for conjunctions, which (at least in these special applications) seem to work pretty well (so far)...
Click to expand...

DigitialDiva said:
I would like to hear more… another thread?
Click to expand...
dr. farr hasn't posted for awhile :)

.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
WEll, it's always safer to use narrow orbs...but it may not be accurate enough. Leaving out a square between Venus and Jupiter, for example, if it's at 8 or even 9 degree in orb ...I would think should be mentioned....and the CLIENT will let you know if you are accurate or not. Because these squares bring about behavioral action...and reaction.
Or Saturn square Mars...for the same reason....and if either one is in an angular house, you need to allow a wider orb. Especially if part of what you are asked to do is synastry...to warn the person...always err on the side of more...and not less.
BUT as I said many times....if a dynamic is PRESENT in a chart, and important, it will show up more than once.
There are Very few "hidden" clues.
LIN
 
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DigitialDiva

DigitialDiva

Well-known member
Lin said:
WEll, it's always safer to use narrow orbs...but it may not be accurate enough. Leaving out a square between Venus and Jupiter, for example, if it's at 8 or even 9 degree in orb ...I would think should be mentioned....and the CLIENT will let you know if you are accurate or not. Because these squares bring about behavioral action...and reaction.
Or Saturn square Mars...for the same reason....and if either one is in an angular house, you need to allow a wider orb. Especially if part of what you are asked to do is synastry...to warn the person...always err on the side of more...and not less.
BUT as I said many times....if a dynamic is PRESENT in a chart, and important, it will show up more than once.
There are Very few "hidden" clues.
LIN
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I don’t follow pop western astrology.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
DigitialDiva said:
I don’t follow pop western astrology.
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I don't know what that means. Orbs are orbs....I don't think it matters what system you use if you are using planetary aspects= which is the title of this thread..."Orbs" and stuff...
Been using these orbs for 40 years and these parameters seem to we pretty much accurate...both in natal and transit astrology.

And I wasn't necessarily only addressing you...my point of view might be useful to someone else.

LIN
 
FraterAC

FraterAC

Well-known member
DigitialDiva said:
I don’t follow pop western astrology.
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The obvious question is, how is the orb issue addressed in the system the respondent uses?


Note: "You" statements have been ruled "attacking" by the moderation here in the past. To avoid any possible trolls (there couldn't be any trolls here, could there?) reporting my content as attacking anyone, passive voice and oblique references to members have been adopted.
I do not mean to be rude or arrogant using that kind of language.
 
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DigitialDiva

DigitialDiva

Well-known member
FraterAC said:
The obvious question is, how is the orb issue addressed in the system the respondent uses?


Note: "You" statements have been ruled "attacking" by the moderation here in the past. To avoid any possible trolls (there couldn't be any trolls here, could there?) reporting my content as attacking anyone, passive voice and oblique references to members have been adopted.
I do not mean to be rude or arrogant using that kind of language.
Click to expand...

I follow scientific astrology where they did research and to prove everything out. I use narrow orbs and unweighted. 3 degrees for longitudes and 1degree 12 minutes for declination, 18 minutes for Latitudes.

They permit 4 degree in longitude only with one planet and that would make a significant geometry such as a grand trine. Other wise no increased orbs are permitted. They found there is no statistical influence once the planets are further apart then stated.
 
D

DavidMcCann

Active member
I'm a little late to this party, but here goes.

Abraham ibn Ezra looked at this and recorded three approaches:
  • The use of different orbs for different planets. This, of course, was the practice adopted by western astrologers, from Bonatti down to the 19th century.
  • The use of a fixed orb, as given in ancient authors, from 3° in Hephaestio to 7½° in Dorotheus. This was common among the Arabs (Alcabitius recommended 6°) but never got taken up in Europe.
  • Just as many astrologers refused dissociate aspects (e.g. a square from 29°♈ to 1°♌, so a few measured from terms to terms. In other words, a planet in 5°♈ would not square one in 8°♋ because one was in the first set of terms and the other in the second set. A rare approach — Abraham didn't name anyone who used it and I can't supply a name either.
Back in the 1970's two groups of astrologers, unknown to each other, one in Australia, one in the USA, worked on the behaviour of unaspected planets — and reached identical conclusions. Having learnt how each unaspected planet manifested, they considered marginal cases — when a planet had one very wide aspect and whether it behaved as unaspected. One group concluded that the maximum orb used should be 6°, the other that it should be 5° Now that's evidence, not opinion.

I often wonder if those who use the large orbs common in the last century have any idea what they look like in the sky. Hold your hand out at arm's length. The width of your 4 fingers is roughly 4° — and people have accepted planets as being in conjunction when they were twice that distance apart, or even more.
 
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neptune910

Well-known member
Lin said:
So....back to this:
IS there anyone with a chart where the aspects are in question because of the orb issues?

If there is one, and the poster is familiar with the subject, we may get some useful information to work with.
LIN
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This post is nearly a decade old but i have a chart where my 5 planet stellium and my sun/moon/asc technically conjunct, square and oppose eachother by sign but the orb is wide with some planets. But in declination aspects i have many contraparallels and parallels involving the same planets with tight orbs
 
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Lin

Well-known member
I would really like to answer this question - but without seeing the chart.....or birth data so that I can draw the chart....
or ...posting the exact degrees ...planet, sign, degrees, minutes.... I cannot answer that question because it is one of having the experience to ascertain whether or not the stellium exisits or if any of the planets are out of orb.
Lin
 
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