Orbs and Stuff

[dr. farr]

Well, not quite yet!!
The 4/9 Name sports model is nearing "completion" of its testing phase (currently 943 test games, maintaining a +18% return rate, ie 59% correct, 41% incorrect ratio); I still have some ways to go in testing of the "Lot of Substance" method for stock and futures price predictions.

 

[greybeard]

3:2 odds in your favor? That dog will hunt.
Stay out of pork bellies. Check out Lithium mining. Long-term future demand is likely to increase dramatically and geological sources are very limited.

I can see a sound rationale behind a fixed 5 degree orb in charts of speculative nature (dealing primarily with "objective" trends/events (mundane).

I am always impressed by your investigative-experimentative nature: astrology based on measurable results.

 

[Lin]

I haven't read every post. The following might have been covered.

Often, a person will notice that a heavy planet will be aspecting one or more natal planets. When is the aspect active? We can give our opinion as to this....but my experience tells me that unless the transit passes WITHOUT the transitting planet retrograding, the aspect is active the entire time ..... from the time the transitting planet is within orb range (9,8,7....whatever degrees) until the LAST TIME it leaves the aspect ....and that means leaves ALL planets it aspects within that time frame.

However, once it leaves the aspect of the last planet in any grouping, it is DONE. I've found there is no real orb separating.

WARNING: and this I've seen unfortunately, many times... a planet...let's say, SATURN has aspected one or more conjunct planets ... or an opposition... and is done...BUT...ANOTHER PLANET is on it's way....THAT planet will mightily affects the person and the issues created by the Saturn transit. If it's another outer planet, that ISSUE is not over. And if it's Neptune or Pluto, this type of "combination" can take up several years of a person's time and energy. AND it can be coming from another quadrant, and might have just impacted a whole other part of the life.

That is why trying to generalize in any way is so fruitless. We should be working with an example (a chart.)
LIN

 

[aquarius7000]

Hi,

...That is why trying to generalize in any way is so fruitless. We should be working with an example (a chart.)LIN

Whilst you have beautifully explained why, in your opinion, generalisation is useless, and working with a chart is more useful- this I concur with; however, generalisation is, in my opinion, quite necessary and useful, too. Generalisations are established only after studies of several examples, and collection of statistics/data/information that proves a (targeted) point. A chart, as yet another example, will make that point clearer and easier to understand. Just like your general point about one heavy-planet transit followed by another.

AQ7

PS: W/O generalisations, no rules or even theories can be put together.

 

[Lin]

My 'generalizations' come from my experience.
Since every astrologer has many different charts in their research, there will be many opinions. One of the above posts said it well:

#1. Every aspect has its own orb. If someone said to use 8 degree orb between Mars and Saturn, that is not for every aspect - conjunction, opposition, square, trine, sextile, and several other minor aspects.
#2. Orb depends on planet's direction also.
#3. Orb depends on location of planet: cardinal, succedent, cadent
#4. Orb depends on strength of planet: chart ruler, exalted, debilitated, detrimenta, etc.


HOWEVER: to go BEYOND this information, one must use a chart as one picture is worth a thousand words. I always assume on these forums that I am addressing people who are learning astrology and I hate to pass along misinformation or say something that a beginner may believe is absolute when it's conditional upon the REST of the chart.... which most delineation IS.

That is why when a beginning student asks a question about planetary position or aspect, if I decide I'd like to give a real answer, I ask for the chart to be shown, so that the information I give is useful for that person specifically.

Like a surgeon, an astrologer learns this science and art ONE person ...one chart... at a time. Eventually there is a body of research and then conclusions can be drawn and some generalities voiced.
But this of course is only my opinion, based on my practice and experience.
LIN

 

[Krewster]

[FONT=&#44404][/FONT]
[FONT=&#44404]This sticky pre-dates my membership and sorry if I'm too late.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&#44404]Rather than caring about cut-offs, I'm getting a lot more juice these days from focusing on the rate(s) by which an influence strengthens and weakens within, say, a 3 + 3 degree range from exact (and whether, beyond that, many aspects might not be more than the fading trail on a pop song's audio volume envelope or, heaven forbid, a proximate minor aspect).[/FONT]​

[FONT=&#44404]Kudos to those also honoring the effect of non-mathematical factors on such rates (e.g., planet strength, etc.; seems alot to take in) and I wonder where are the members with developed opinions about the rates based solely on orb strength (I'll stick in this camp for a little while longer with working assumptions such as that the rate is noticeable immediately beyond exact and has a speed bump somewhere around 2.x degrees)[/FONT]

[FONT=&#44404]Just saying the things to focus on prior to the cut-off (e.g., is the rate linear or logarithmic) seem more interesting than the cut-off itself (which may remain relevant only in tweaking your aspect set what to display).[/FONT]​

 

[PaigeinKaty]

Hello all. I'm new to the board, and I have a question that has me stumped. How do you calculate the orbs in synastry? For example:

Me: Sun 29deg31 (Aqu)
Partner: Ven 11deg58 (Can)

=????



Do I have to convert some numbers? Do I simply subtract? Also, with the conjunction is it up to 8 either direction? Thank you so much in advance.

I'd really like to do this by hand, because most programs use tropical astrology, and I don't.

 

[dr. farr]

The historical consensus relative to orbs in synastry, is for tight (small) orbs.

 

[PaigeinKaty]

The historical consensus relative to orbs in synastry, is for tight (small) orbs.

That I understand...but what is the calculation I can do by hand to even determine the orbs between myself & my partner. Thank you for replying.

 

[dr. farr]

1) convert each planet's position in each chart to degrees of longitude (ie zodiacal degrees; eg 11Cancer58 = 101degrees58min longitude; 29Aquarius31 = 329degrees31 minutes longitude)-then subtract the lesser number of the planet in questionin 1 chart from the higher number of the planet in question in chart 2: see if the result is an aspect. For example,
Chart 1: Sun = 329degrees31 minutes
Chart 2: Venus = 101degres58 minutes
Difference = 227 degrees
Since for determining aspects 180 degrees is the maximum, we cannot use any figure over 180 degrees; so we look at the figures in another way: subtract the higher figure (329 degrees) from 360 (meaning 0 Aries), which equals 31 degrees; then add the lower figure to 0 (meaning 0 Aries): so here we add 31 degrees to 101 degrees which = 132 degrees: now, (Ptolemaic) aspects are 60 degrees, 90 degrees, 120 degrees and 180 degrees: so the distance here, 132 degrees, between Chart 1 Sun and chart 2 Venus-being 132 degrees-does not fall within orb (certainly not tight orbs) of any (Ptolemaic) aspect (nor in conjunction either, which technically is not an aspect), so we could say that in the synastry charts the Sun of one and the Venus of the other, are not in aspect.

 

[PaigeinKaty]

1) convert each planet's position in each chart to degrees of longitude (ie zodiacal degrees; eg 11Cancer58 = 101degrees58min longitude; 29Aquarius31 = 329degrees31 minutes longitude)-then subtract the lesser number of the planet in questionin 1 chart from the higher number of the planet in question in chart 2: see if the result is an aspect. For example,
Chart 1: Sun = 329degrees31 minutes
Chart 2: Venus = 101degres58 minutes
Difference = 227 degrees
Since for determining aspects 180 degrees is the maximum, we cannot use any figure over 180 degrees; so we look at the figures in another way: subtract the higher figure (329 degrees) from 360 (meaning 0 Aries), which equals 31 degrees; then add the lower figure to 0 (meaning 0 Aries): so here we add 31 degrees to 101 degrees which = 132 degrees: now, (Ptolemaic) aspects are 60 degrees, 90 degrees, 120 degrees and 180 degrees: so the distance here, 132 degrees, between Chart 1 Sun and chart 2 Venus-being 132 degrees-does not fall within orb (certainly not tight orbs) of any (Ptolemaic) aspect (nor in conjunction either, which technically is not an aspect), so we could say that in the synastry charts the Sun of one and the Venus of the other, are not in aspect.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this...I will chew on this until I get it...

 

[greybeard]

I will repeat what Dr. Farr said in a different way.

First, "orbs" refer to aspects. The first thing, then -- whether in synastry or delineation of a natal chart -- is to determine if there is an aspect between two planets.

The Ptolemaic (major) aspects used in astrology are:
Conjunction (not technically an aspect) -- 0 degrees
Sextile -- 60 degrees
Square -- 90 degrees
Trine -- 120 degrees
Opposition --180 degrees

Your Venus is at 12 degrees Aquarius, your partner's Sun at 30 degrees Cancer.
There is no aspect. The actual distance between the two is 120 (30 Cancer = [0 Leo]) degrees from 0 Aries, plus 48 (12 Aquarius is 48 degrees behind 0 Aries). So the arc distance is 168 degrees, which is nowhere close to any major aspect.

Count whole signs....From Aquarius to the very end of Cancer we have -- Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini and Cancer -- 5 whole signs, plus 18 degrees back from 0 Pisces to 12 Aquarius = 168 degrees.

This distance is 12 degrees short of 180 (the opposition aspect), and not in opposing signs, but in signs which are "inconjunct" (they "do not behold each other"). A 12-degree deviation from the perfect opposition (180) is not normally accepted as within "tolerance" (orb) for that aspect even in a natal chart, and as Dr. Farr pointed out, in synastry close orbs are required, so this would be even less acceptable.

 

[Lin]

So....back to this:
IS there anyone with a chart where the aspects are in question because of the orb issues?

If there is one, and the poster is familiar with the subject, we may get some useful information to work with.
LIN

 

[Claire19]

as an astrologer for over 30 years I prefer to use no more than 10 for the sun and moon aspects, tops..... I don't use minor aspects at all such as semi square etc. For conjunctions no more than 4-5 degrees for all other planets. For sextiles, square, oppositions and trines, no more than 4 degrees. For inconjuncts no more than 2 degrees. A planet in it s natural sign and/or house will give more influence.

 

[Claire19]

That I understand...but what is the calculation I can do by hand to even determine the orbs between myself & my partner. Thank you for replying.

with aspects between you and a partner such as synastry, no more than three degrees. Same with composite charts. You are dealing with two entities here and really the orbs should be about half the normal.

 

[Nikki of Dawn]

Hi, with regards to orbs, I recently took a closer look at my natal chart, and I'm trying to figure out if I have an out of sign square between my Venus and Saturn.

I never knew I may have had this aspect till I did my chart of Astro.com
I know, they use very wide orbs by default- 10 degrees.
So because of this, I saw I suddenly had a square between my Venus and Saturn.
Don't know what to think of this...I know many would not consider this to really be a square, and I also tend to think the same. However, when I read certain factors about what does or may not constitute an aspect, now I wonder.

For example, I wonder if because my Venus is angular- in the 10th house, and I also have Saturn in the 7th, if this gives more weight for me to have a square aspect of not (?) And I'm not sure if this aspect is close or separating, which would be relevant in figuring out if its an aspect or not.

any opinions? My chart is here below, thanks.

[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[JUPITERASC]

Hi, with regards to orbs, I recently took a closer look at my natal chart, a
nd I'm trying to figure out if I have an out of sign square between my Venus and Saturn.

I never knew I may have had this aspect till I did my chart of Astro.com
I know,
they use very wide orbs by default- 10 degrees.
So because of this, I saw I suddenly had a square between my Venus and Saturn.
Don't know what to think of this...
I know many would not consider this to really be a square, and I also tend to think the same.
However, when I read certain factors about what does or may not constitute an aspect, now I wonder.

For example, I wonder if because my Venus is angular- in the 10th house,
and I also have Saturn in the 7th, if this gives more weight for me to have a square aspect of not (?)
And I'm not sure if this aspect is close or separating,
which would be relevant in figuring out if its an aspect or not.

any opinions? My chart is here below, thanks.

[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

ORBS FOR ASPECTUAL CONTACT SKYSCRIPT FREE ONLINE STUDY AID http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.htmL

 

[harfbuzz]

3 degree orb, applying only, sorts out the girls from the boys.

 

[greybeard]

Does a cross-sign 10-degree orbed aspect count as an effective (life-influencing) aspect? That is your question.

First, both planets are angular.

In ancient times and in south Asia today, aspects are measured by Sign, not by orb. Over the past 50 years, western orbs have tended toward reduction. These facts tell us that orbs are not set in stone.

Are there lots of close aspects in the chart? A wide aspect is, under this condition, less likely to exert strong influence. Is one (or both) of the planets empowered by other measures? His aspects may be strong, influential.

An aspect across sign lines is not weakened; it is modified in character. The "conflict" between signs may in fact make it more powerful.

Is the aspect applying or separating?

What are the aspecting planets doing by progression? Trump's chart shows 2 rx planets. The chart does NOT show that both planets turn Direct within 3 days of birth, that is, they are on direct station.

If we adhere to rigid parameters in chart analysis, that rigidity and limitation will be reflected in the delineation. I can always discard too-wide-orbed aspects, but if I ignore them at the beginning they will likely never be noticed again.

 

[VirgoLife]

What is the farthest orb or degree you can do for a conjunction?