Occult Interest

[Vardigon]

Hi there guys. I recently got curious and wondered if the occult and magick will play a part in my life so long as it continues (>_>). So I made up a chart on the subject (the question got cut off in the graph.) Basically I asked: "Will the occult play a big part in the rest of my life?" Kind of sketchy question, maybe.

Anyway, my analysis of the chart so far is quite simple: I see that Libra is on the ascendant, thereby indicating Venus the significator. In Aries, Venus with its degree of 15.27 is in Term in the sign. (Ptolemy's table of essential dignities, yes?) The significator is in positive aspect to Jupiter with a sextile of two degrees. I'm not sure what that would mean.

I've been told before to pay attention to where the Moon is located when considering a horary. In this case, we're quite lucky that it is in its own house. It has a negative aspect, a square, to the planet Venus; however, the aspect is off by 7 degrees. I'm not sure how much impact it would have.

Considering the essential dignity of the Moon being excellent, and of Venus being ... minor ... I would call the horary as having a minor-good chance of being in my favor.

My main motivation for pondering this question is whether I'd have the time, energy, and interest to pursue occult matters.

Thanks for any further help and insight,
Vardigon.

P.S. Look at all those planets in Aquarius! I just thought that was an interesting anomaly. (Aquarius is my favorite sign.)

I also considered Lily's table of accidental dignities, and found that result to be somewhat positive.

 

[Vardigon]

Or maybe not. I think I misread the table. Venus is in Term in Aries from 6.00 degrees to 13.99 degrees. I guess it's in Detriment, then :O.

Perhaps my natal chart affects this somehow too? Is it to be considered?

 

[freedomlover]

Hello Vardigon,

I''ll kick-start your thread for you . I'm learning as I go, as well. I don't know where to go with detriments and faces and all that, but I'll give a few observations. (Traditional horary probably doesn't use all the things I've pointed out, but see if anything is meaningful - rings any bells with you)

You are Venus, which is in Aries in the 6th house (and from my understanding, in detriment, as you say). Venus is exactly at her stationing degree, and is preparing to go retrograde. The ASC is also within orb of the rays of the fixed star, Spica - although I'm not sure what that means. However, I believe Spica is considered a fortunate influence.

Moon is in her home sign of Cancer, and in the 9th, but rules the 10th. Moon is moving forward and Venus is going backwards. They will meet in a square.

I think 8th house is the occult (Venus as sig again) and 12th house rules magick, in particular. Mercury and Chiron co-rule the 12th. Mercury also rules the 9th, the house the Moon is in. (Would this be your study of such?)

Jupiter and Neptune co-rule the 6th, which I think rules things you "practice", apply yourself to learning through action, things that you do as routine and ritual. Jupiter is at 13*Aquarius in the 4th. Neptune is at 24*Aquarius in the 4th. Mercury, ruler of the 12th ( magick) and 9th (study/higher/metaphysical learning) is at 25*Aquarius. So Mercury separated from Jupiter 12 somethings ago, and has just separated from Neptune. Mercury also has separated from Chiron ( co-ruler of the 12th) 3 somethings ago.

Mars rules the 2nd and 7th ( which is odd that these are both Venus's houses and doubly odd that Venus is in Mars' sign of Aries) Mars is just barely separating from a conjunction with Chiron, but will soon conjunct Neptune.

End of the matter is ruler of the 4th - Saturn (r) in Virgo, in the 11th.

Well, first of all there seems to be a whole lotta changing going on. Your sig is going backwards in the 6th. Everything else is separating from something. Did you recently lose a partner you practiced with, or a personal mentor?

However Moon and Venus do make contact, although I'm not sure if a square is a good one. Perhaps you will either slack off in your practice, or practice alone ( Venus retrograde) and then meet up with a new teacher/mentor, with whom you have the opportunity to study (Moon in 9th house) Moon does sextile the end of the matter, Saturn in Virgo in the 11th house of groups - which is also going backwards. The orb is a little wide, (almost 10), but I don't think is too wide to count. Perhaps you will become part of a group, or possibly even an internet-based community.
However, it seems that there will be some delay involved before this happens.

Feedback is appreciated, as it is how I learn.

FL

P.S. You have an interesting natal chart ( I took a peek). You might want to post it and get some interpretations. I found it quite unusual.

 

[Vardigon]

Wow! You made my head spin with all the numerical analogies! Give me a moment to read a second time, haha.

One part of what you said greatly clicked with me. When I was a Christian, I did have a man I thought of as a close mentor and a friend(we were quite close.) He had been with me for several years. With the change in ideologies, I basically had to split with him, because he was so attached to his. I'm not sure what the future holds until it happens, but thanks on the feedback on the possibility of finding someone else to work with.

One thing I'd like to point out for discussion is how strong the moon appears to be concerning dignity. I'm just wondering how that applies to the situation. In traditional horary, it's considered behooving to take into account the position of the Moon and what power it has, and that it might reveal behind-the-scenes information on why the significator is the way it is.

I'm glad you noted the part about Spica being within the orb of the Ascendant. I'm not sure what this would indicate, except perhaps something good.

If I meet up with someone new, I hope they're not as dogmatic, heh.

Thanks much,
Vardigon

Edit/Ps:

End of the matter is ruler of the 4th - Saturn (r) in Virgo, in the 11th.

How did you determine this? Is it a standard rule to consider the 4th house for the end of things?

Interestingly enough, you made a point about the possibility of me practicing alone because of the deal with Venus retrograde. Here's a quote from Skyscript on the nature of Spica:

An Egyptian Coptic title was Khoritos, 'Solitary', on account of Spica being such a notably brilliant star in an otherwise poorly lit area of the sky. This visible isolation has contributed to a reputation of being unfruitful or unfortunate for marriage, but otherwise Spica is considered a very fortunate star, particularly for those concerned with arts, sciences, law or religion.

 

[freedomlover]

One part of what you said greatly clicked with me. When I was a Christian, I did have a man I thought of as a close mentor and a friend(we were quite close.) He had been with me for several years. With the change in ideologies, I basically had to split with him, because he was so attached to his. I'm not sure what the future holds until it happens, but thanks on the feedback on the possibility of finding someone else to work with.


If I meet up with someone new, I hope they're not as dogmatic, heh.

With everything so mixed up, separating from, and going backwards, I would say that it is also saying very clearly that you have alot of conflict in your inner psyche because of the Christian beliefs you used to adhere to (possibly raised with - with all the 4th house activity). It is painful to have to part with someone whom you care a great deal for because of conflicting spiritual beliefs. I know - I've been there too many times myself. I lost a lot of friends - even some like family- becuse of my occult studies. Belief systems have a way of "digging in" in your inner psyche - especially if you're going against what your parents/family believes, or close friends and groups you used to be a part of. If you continue to attract people that oppose you, causing further turmoil - they are probably mirroring to you the conflict in your own psyche. (Again - personal experience)

There is a lot of activity in Aquarius and Chiron(constant wounding) in Aquarius rules the 12th house of magick. Aquarius rules groups - fitting in- being alone - and being seen as "rebellious". Moon also rules your personal history and training ( another association with the 4th house). Moon rules 10th, which is the house of public image and respect. Perhaps there are inner issues of feeling rejected and alone and not fitting in?

One thing I'd like to point out for discussion is how strong the moon appears to be concerning dignity. I'm just wondering how that applies to the situation. In traditional horary, it's considered behooving to take into account the position of the Moon and what power it has, and that it might reveal behind-the-scenes information on why the significator is the way it is.

I'm sorry, someone else will have to answer that question. I'm pretty good with significators, but just dipping my toe in the water when it comes to dignities, and all that. However, since you said that the Moon may indicate behind the scenes information, I would think that fits in very well with the "background" that I described seeing in the chart.

I'm glad you noted the part about Spica being within the orb of the Ascendant. I'm not sure what this would indicate, except perhaps something good.

Yes, my understanding is that Spica on the ASC is usually a good sign. Spica is associated with the constellation of Virgo, and the harvest ( the Earth) - also with the Divine Feminine archetype.

Quote:
End of the matter is ruler of the 4th - Saturn (r) in Virgo, in the 11th.

How did you determine this? Is it a standard rule to consider the 4th house for the end of things?

Any regular horary that I do ( aside from intuitive non-regular horary) I've learned from little bits and pieces I've picked up on this Forum. Early on in my membership here, I read that this was used. I've since read that some do not. However, I have used it with pretty good success for the last couple of years.

Again, Saturn(r) in Virgo in the 11th house of groups may point to your need to reconcile earlier teachings that conflict with your current beliefs.
The chart may be saying that you will continue on with your studies, but will continue to contend with these issues until resolved.

An Egyptian Coptic title was Khoritos, 'Solitary', on account of Spica being such a notably brilliant star in an otherwise poorly lit area of the sky. This visible isolation has contributed to a reputation of being unfruitful or unfortunate for marriage, but otherwise Spica is considered a very fortunate star, particularly for those concerned with arts, sciences, law or religion.

I had never seen this particular information on Spica. I find it very interesting, as well. Thanks for sharing.

Freedomlover

 

[freedomlover]

Vardigon,

Perhaps my natal chart affects this somehow too? Is it to be considered?

Some people mix horary with natal - but most do not. I'm in the camp that does, if it's a direct hit - like a conjunction. I've compared personal horaries with my natals many, many times - and received further understanding from comparing the two. After all, what IS a horary but a snapshot of the energies transiting your natal at that time?
(Pausing for expected flood of "YOU CAN'T DO THAT"s )

I checked your horary with your natal. The first thing that jumped out at me was that Saturn(r) in Virgo in the 11th is sitting on your natal South Node in Virgo in the 9th. Further fuel on the fire, if you ask me.

As a side note, on the natal - Pluto(r) in Scorpio, ruler of the 11th, is on the 11th house cusp. Chiron at the critical 29*degree of Gemini in the 7th, co-rules your 9th. Chiron exactly opposes Uranus(r) and Saturn(r) in exact conjunction at the critical degree of 29*Sagittarius in the 1st. I'll hypothesize that you've been around this mulberry bush before.

FL

 

[Vardigon]

As a side note, on the natal - Pluto(r) in Scorpio, ruler of the 11th, is on the 11th house cusp. Chiron at the critical 29*degree of Gemini in the 7th, co-rules your 9th. Chiron exactly opposes Uranus(r) and Saturn(r) in exact conjunction at the critical degree of 29*Sagittarius in the 1st. I'll hypothesize that you've been around this mulberry bush before.

FL

I'm confused! *cry* Which mulberry bush are we talking about? Huh? Huh?

 

[freedomlover]

I'm confused! *cry* Which mulberry bush are we talking about? Huh? Huh?

Your chart emphasizes a strong possiblity that you were persecuted for your beliefs in a past life. The two retrograde planets in the 1st indicated an inner need to resolve religious beliefs and to stay true to your own intuion. Chiron in Gemini opposing from the 7th indicates confrontations and wounding from others who will not "agree to disagree" and will not "reason" with you- a problem with opposing viewpoints from others.

Does that help?

FL

 

[Vardigon]

Your chart emphasizes a strong possiblity that you were persecuted for your beliefs in a past life. The two retrograde planets in the 1st indicated an inner need to resolve religious beliefs and to stay true to your own intuion. Chiron in Gemini opposing from the 7th indicates confrontations and wounding from others who will not "agree to disagree" and will not "reason" with you- a problem with opposing viewpoints from others.

Does that help?

FL

Ah, yeah. I understand. I don't necessarily have faith in past lives, but I can accept the idea of persecution and the need to stay true to what I think internally. It's something I've been getting used to . Internal vs. external reliance.

 

[freedomlover]

Ah, yeah. I understand. I don't necessarily have faith in past lives, but I can accept the idea of persecution and the need to stay true to what I think internally. It's something I've been getting used to . Internal vs. external reliance.

Whatever works for you. The main idea is that you realize you have this as a strong issue to work on - which you seem to be.

FL

 

[starlink]

Hi Vardigon, I will see if I can help you here.

You are the Ascendant and the Moon as co-significator and the occult is the 12th, (house of hidden things and occult deals with things hidden) not the 8th (which is really the house of transformation, worry and death especially in horary).

The occult therefore is ruled by Mercury, placed in your 4th house in Aquarius where it is ruling the sign by night which makes him strong, accidentally dignified because he is in an angular house and in term of Mars.

Being in term of Mars, means that he is in mutual reception with Venus who is ruled by Mars. This is not a strong Mutual Reception however because both Mercury and Venus are weak in sign and Venus even worse by being in the unfortunate 6th house. Mars, who rules Venus is peregrine.

We now have to look for an ingoing aspect between Venus and Mars or Moon and Mars, or a translation or collection of light between them.

Venus is on her way to sextile (= opportunity) Mercury, but Mars blocks her way. This is interesting. Mars represents other people and your income or selfconfidence.

So others, or another person, as well as maybe your own feelings of insecurity (I dont take income as a reason here) could hamper/block the road to get to Mercury.
This I could take as a NO, which it often is.

But we can look a bit further. It could also mean that you maybe could be discouraged by others to do this (Mars as 7th house ruler) which makes you feel less secure (Mars as second house ruler) so you wont grab the opportunity (sextile) you could otherwise have.

Saturn in the house of hopes and ideals is also showing your doubt. He rules that Mercury as well as the 4th house on how the matter ends. Saturn is retrograde which could show a pulling back from this idea and in term of Saturn. Saturn usually shows delay.

Moon, your co-significator is strong in own sign but also does not make a connection to Mercury.

The Moon shows how things will take their course. She squares Venus. A square could be seen as positive when both planets are dignified. Only Moon is. Venus is very weak I'm afraid. After that, her last aspect is the sextile to the greater Malific who also is retrograde, making Saturn even more malific. So I think that things will be put on hold for the time being.
As Moon, your co-significator is strong in sign in the 9th house or studies and in term of Jupiter, ruling your 3rd (courses), I think you could/should do some studying first, follow some courses. It could also mean you are already doing that.

Freedomlover mentioned a mentor. I was thinking that maybe that Mars as ruler of the 7th could be a person who says to you : stop, first you will have to learn more about these subjects. Mars is peregrine so he might not be biased and saying "stop, this is wrong what you are doing". I hope you will be encouraged to go on, building up more confidence in this area by studying these subjects more indepth.

Spica on the Ascendant is usually fortunate, but I dont know if it helps with this question. Maybe more in questions like : will I win the lottery

Cheers, Starlink

 

[Vardigon]

Hi Vardigon, I will see if I can help you here.

You are the Ascendant and the Moon as co-significator and the occult is the 12th, (house of hidden things and occult deals with things hidden) not the 8th (which is really the house of transformation, worry and death especially in horary).

The occult therefore is ruled by Mercury, placed in your 4th house in Aquarius where it is ruling the sign by night which makes him strong, accidentally dignified because he is in an angular house and in term of Mars.

Being in term of Mars, means that he is in mutual reception with Venus who is ruled by Mars. This is not a strong Mutual Reception however because both Mercury and Venus are weak in sign and Venus even worse by being in the unfortunate 6th house. Mars, who rules Venus is peregrine.

We now have to look for an ingoing aspect between Venus and Mars or Moon and Mars, or a translation or collection of light between them.

Venus is on her way to sextile (= opportunity) Mercury, but Mars blocks her way. This is interesting. Mars represents other people and your income or selfconfidence.

So others, or another person, as well as maybe your own feelings of insecurity (I dont take income as a reason here) could hamper/block the road to get to Mercury.
This I could take as a NO, which it often is.

But we can look a bit further. It could also mean that you maybe could be discouraged by others to do this (Mars as 7th house ruler) which makes you feel less secure (Mars as second house ruler) so you wont grab the opportunity (sextile) you could otherwise have.

Saturn in the house of hopes and ideals is also showing your doubt. He rules that Mercury as well as the 4th house on how the matter ends. Saturn is retrograde which could show a pulling back from this idea and in term of Saturn. Saturn usually shows delay.

Moon, your co-significator is strong in own sign but also does not make a connection to Mercury.

The Moon shows how things will take their course. She squares Venus. A square could be seen as positive when both planets are dignified. Only Moon is. Venus is very weak I'm afraid. After that, her last aspect is the sextile to the greater Malific who also is retrograde, making Saturn even more malific. So I think that things will be put on hold for the time being.
As Moon, your co-significator is strong in sign in the 9th house or studies and in term of Jupiter, ruling your 3rd (courses), I think you could/should do some studying first, follow some courses. It could also mean you are already doing that.

Freedomlover mentioned a mentor. I was thinking that maybe that Mars as ruler of the 7th could be a person who says to you : stop, first you will have to learn more about these subjects. Mars is peregrine so he might not be biased and saying "stop, this is wrong what you are doing". I hope you will be encouraged to go on, building up more confidence in this area by studying these subjects more indepth.

Spica on the Ascendant is usually fortunate, but I dont know if it helps with this question. Maybe more in questions like : will I win the lottery

Cheers, Starlink

Hi starlink. Thank you for replying to my thread. I think you've given me some new insight on the situation! And I've also been learning more recently about transits which, when I put 2 + 2 together, might explain some of the circumstances.

Venus is on her way to sextile (= opportunity) Mercury, but Mars blocks her way. This is interesting. Mars represents other people and your income or selfconfidence.

So others, or another person, as well as maybe your own feelings of insecurity (I dont take income as a reason here) could hamper/block the road to get to Mercury.
This I could take as a NO, which it often is.

Let me try to reply to this in an enumerative format:
1) Other people
2) Income
3) Self-confidence

I currently live with my parents, and taking up occult studies while living at home is difficult for me because I often feel squelched by this. The self-confidence deal was a kicker: I've been pretty aware for a while that my self-confidence is quite on the low end. Income is also a problem, actually, since income is the thing that could help me be independent enough to take my studies up in peace.

When you said studies in your above post, what exactly did you mean? I know that recently I've been thinking about following an independent course of study which would allow me to become certified and obtain a career position which would eventually allow me to be independent, thus being free to pursue my goals.

I started thinking of this recently when I was looking at some pluto transits and a future Uranus transit over my IC and Saturn over MC, within two years of one another.

Finally, to clarify, does your answer imply that the subject of the occult in general (not just astrology) would be a future dead end for me, or that at the moment it is rather on-hold, delayed, etc.? Because that rather fits with my observations. It's something I'm quite interested in, but it's bothered me because of the hold ups.

 

[starlink]

Finally, to clarify, does your answer imply that the subject of the occult in general (not just astrology) would be a future dead end for me, or that at the moment it is rather on-hold, delayed, etc.? Because that rather fits with my observations. It's something I'm quite interested in, but it's bothered me because of the hold ups.
__________________

I think it is more of a hold-up for the moment. It is also interesting to see that the NorthNode (which shows what is good for you according to Frawley) is in your 4th house, so being at home, rather than get out in public seems to be better for the time being.

When you said studies in your above post, what exactly did you mean?

I meant occult studies. But as Moon is in the 9th I also thought that you were at this moment thinking about studying some subject, be it occult or the study you told me about. Moon shows where your subconscious feelings are.

Yes, Mars, ruling your income also clearly shows the weak side of finances at the moment and staying at home would still be for the moment the best thing until, indeed that Uranus will hit your IC in your natal chart. Saturn on the MC could show obtaining a degree (often also seen in promotions and school graduation). it is therefore possible that you will first get a degree under your belt, so you will be more financially safe in the future and then, when finding the time for it, will proceed with your occult studies. I guess that time eventually will tell you if you can survive on being in an occult occupation or not. Maybe doing a normal job during the day and in the evenîngs getting some extra's doing astrology, tarrot or whatever else you have in mind.