No sex drive? Mars in the fourth? Saturn in the fifth?

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
This person has a loaded 5th house, notably with saturn in there. This person feels really sexually restricted, and monotonous. Despite having mars in Sagittarius they act very much like a capricorn (saturn influence?but not by aspect?). Normally astrology helps me to understand the desire natures of others but his chart really confuses me. I'm not sure how to interpret moon conjunct mars in the fourth house sexually (aside from mother smothering) and especially not a really loaded 5th house with the exuberant sun but also restrictive saturn. I was under the assumption that Mars-Venus positive aspects would create a well balanced/comfortable gender identity and fluidity that is attractive to others that could also be found in the bedroom. The fourth house doesn't effect his mars in the sense that emotions and sweet/romantic sentiments are incorporated into his desire nature. This person is more in his head than his body, and I could see that attribute given his mars is in sagittarius but he isn't experimental, connected to the wildman, or energetic like Sagittarius is known for.

ANY insights would be greatly appreciated! I have put alot of energy into understanding this over the last year so that I can apply any new understandings/insights to the charts of others, but to no AVAIL!
Consider delineating the Ascendant and First House in depth :smile:

Main Rulerships of First House include: Life, vitality and health

Stature, colour, complexion, form and shape of body.
Older sources note its influence upon the intellect, the way the mind works, and speech.
In general, the first house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.

As well as describing the physical appearance,
the condition of this house
and that of its planetary ruler
indicates the level of personal vitality and strength


http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html
 

waybread

Well-known member
Is not me asking people around if they have permission. I was simply pointing there are members doing that pretty much every post before replying which I had explained why I found that is not logical.

Poyi, perhaps you didn't catch that a man's given name was posted on the original chart. Generally when people anonymize a chart they erase the name or input something that is very general, like just a first name or "him."

There are several things to check before launching into a chart reading. Ensuring that it is consistent with forum rules is one of them.
 

Brea

Well-known member
Brea, thanks for the update. We can't be too careful about people's anonymity re: such a sensitive subject. Do you want to re-post the chart? It would be helpful to learn whether you are in (or hope to be in) a romantic/sexual relationship with this man. Sometimes people are fine with a certain type of partner, but not with any or all "close encounters." You've linked your chart, so we can look at the synastry.

Yes, we're S.O
 

waybread

Well-known member
Brea, thanks for your patience. If your BF is a drug user, I am sure you realize that this can have an effect, depending upon the drug, on male sexuality; notably if used over a period of time. That huge opposition in "Chris's" chart can generate a lot of tension and stress in a person's life; which if he isn't self-medicating with drugs, could on its own make someone a lot less randy. I don't mean to sound moralistic about this, but I think these are medical facts. Astrologically, Saturn is a huge player in his chart (being also the traditional ruler of Aquarius and house-ruler for his Venus.

I looked at your synastry, because part of an active sex life (for someone who is not raring-to-go most of the time) is simply feeling comfortable and compatible with one's partner. You have a lovely sun-trine-sun with this man, which can confer an instant liking and friendship. Ditto for your moon sextiling his sun and your Venus sextiling his ascendant. It is so important for SOs to be best friends.

I don't see the sexy part of your relationship panning out quite so well. Generally I would look for conjunctions, sextiles, or trines between his and her Venus-Mars pairs. I just don't see these with your chart.

Also, I checked the ephemeris and note that his Venus went retrograde when he was a child, and is still retrograde (you could double-check this with a progressed chart.) This can mean that rather than his Venus energy out there as "cherchez la femme," he experiences Venus's other qualities in an inner, interior sort of way.

On the other hand, you, my dear Brea, have your out-there Venus in Aries square Uranus, making me think you are more of the wild-woman type.

Just possibly what you have in Chris is a roomie or guy-pal, more than a lover.

Has he ever expressed to you any painful early experiences associated with sexuality? Normally a Mars-Venus sextile on its own, notably with a Jupiter midpoint/yod configuration should give him a healthy appetite. But with Chiron in the mix, I wonder if he learned at an early age that sexuality brough a lot of emotional pain with it, that he has not yet processed. (Just a hunch.)
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi. I just skimmed through the thread out of interest and just wanted to bring attention back to an observation made by mdinaz early on, and which Waybread just touched on. That Moon in Scorpio in tense aspect to the Saturn Chiron opposition is surely at the very heart of the problem, especially with the anti-culminating Pluto also aspecting that opposition. The massive Capricorn emphasis, including the chart-ruling Sun conjunct Uranus, provides a place away from the dangers of intimacy.

The Mars in Sagittarius, etc. may have a sexual side to its expression, but this could be fantasy-based where one isn't so vulnerable.

I think he has decided on some level that he is going to stay in control from now on due to the past hurts that waybread has suggested are there, and withdrawing from sex has become a powerful symbol of control. He may, on some level, even see the need for sexual intimacy as some kind of deplorable weakness.
 

Krewster

Well-known member
Your friend's Moon is tightly-enough semi-square to Sat.

Ven triangulates that semi-square via looser semi-semi-square family aspects.

Such Moon-Ven-Sat "red" triangle could represent a tendency to clamp up when opportunities for vulnerability are presented.

By contrast, Mars appears aspectually healthy (I don't know the 150 to Jup as creating a deficit), though it is 2 min orb novile to Sat (so what he's a master at physical self-control...?).
 

miquar

Well-known member
I had some more thoughts on the Moon Saturn Chiron configuration.

The 5th and 11th houses share as a common theme the experience of a sense of identity. In the 5th house this is individual identity; in the 11th the individual identifies with some feature of a wider group or collective.

Saturn and Chiron both tend to bring a sense of being denied something important, and of having to struggle to attain it or else struggle on without it. So I wonder if the your friend's parent(s) were unable to give that Scorpio Moon the reassuring experience of intense intimacy which it so badly needed, because they were caught up in some struggle to forge, or cope without, an solid sense of identity.

Your friend would have taken on this struggle, as it is his predisposition to do so. So in dismantling the defenses around the Moon, a good place to start might be issues of identity, including early role models and experiences.
 

Brea

Well-known member
Brea, thanks for your patience. If your BF is a drug user, I am sure you realize that this can have an effect, depending upon the drug, on male sexuality; notably if used over a period of time. That huge opposition in "Chris's" chart can generate a lot of tension and stress in a person's life; which if he isn't self-medicating with drugs, could on its own make someone a lot less randy. I don't mean to sound moralistic about this, but I think these are medical facts. Astrologically, Saturn is a huge player in his chart (being also the traditional ruler of Aquarius and house-ruler for his Venus.

I looked at your synastry, because part of an active sex life (for someone who is not raring-to-go most of the time) is simply feeling comfortable and compatible with one's partner. You have a lovely sun-trine-sun with this man, which can confer an instant liking and friendship. Ditto for your moon sextiling his sun and your Venus sextiling his ascendant. It is so important for SOs to be best friends.

I don't see the sexy part of your relationship panning out quite so well. Generally I would look for conjunctions, sextiles, or trines between his and her Venus-Mars pairs. I just don't see these with your chart.

Also, I checked the ephemeris and note that his Venus went retrograde when he was a child, and is still retrograde (you could double-check this with a progressed chart.) This can mean that rather than his Venus energy out there as "cherchez la femme," he experiences Venus's other qualities in an inner, interior sort of way.

On the other hand, you, my dear Brea, have your out-there Venus in Aries square Uranus, making me think you are more of the wild-woman type.

Just possibly what you have in Chris is a roomie or guy-pal, more than a lover.

Has he ever expressed to you any painful early experiences associated with sexuality? Normally a Mars-Venus sextile on its own, notably with a Jupiter midpoint/yod configuration should give him a healthy appetite. But with Chiron in the mix, I wonder if he learned at an early age that sexuality brough a lot of emotional pain with it, that he has not yet processed. (Just a hunch.)

Im sure the drugs he's on probably does effect our sex life but he has always had this issue with women, long before the prescriptions. I know this person carries alot of pain in his life but I'm as unaware as he is to what causes it aside from a really restrictive relationship with his mother/parents and being hard on himself in the same manner. I know this person had a traumatic experience with a catheter as a young boy, his first sexual encounter when he was older was with a person who was kinda trashy and just wanted to kinda collect his virginity. aside from these things I've never been able to understand his chiron influence in his life. but other people who are very scorpio-intuitive have picked up on this saddness too. Maybe it could be as simple as having no play as a child? or being constantly ridiculed? Not fully being able to connect to your inner child? I now better understand his venus being retrograde because he does exhibit a very soft feminine energy. I'm really suspicious of his wounds because he is very involved in/with my wounded vulnerable side that he has healed over time, it almost attracts us. I was also sexually abused as a child and he connects with it very very intensely (probablly our moon sextiles from my8th to his fourth). We both had very traumatic experiences with catheters and doctors. He really enjoys and brings out that vulnerable childlike energy from me, wonder if its a projection of his relationship to his? I do feel controlled sometimes, I dont get much affectionate attention from him. He's just not very demonstrative (which I figure is from his parents) but I'm okay with not being smothered. He is however extremely affectionate when he's half asleep very concerned and gushy. His obviously a very emotional creature like myself (never seen a man cry so much for so many people and reasons (and helpless animals.) so I'm not sure where these emotions are most the time unless he's breaking down. It seems he almost gets therapy from healing me, if that isnt suggestive. I have seen him cut of emotionally. Where very very very rarely hebecomes insensitive and cold and detached, and I know that comes from his mother like he's learned how to shut off his naturally sensitive nature.

Sorry for such a long post. His chiron has stuck out like a sore thumb for such a long time, its interesting to see if this genuinely has ties back to that.
 

Brea

Well-known member
I had some more thoughts on the Moon Saturn Chiron configuration.

The 5th and 11th houses share as a common theme the experience of a sense of identity. In the 5th house this is individual identity; in the 11th the individual identifies with some feature of a wider group or collective.

Saturn and Chiron both tend to bring a sense of being denied something important, and of having to struggle to attain it or else struggle on without it. So I wonder if the your friend's parent(s) were unable to give that Scorpio Moon the reassuring experience of intense intimacy which it so badly needed, because they were caught up in some struggle to forge, or cope without, an solid sense of identity.

Your friend would have taken on this struggle, as it is his predisposition to do so. So in dismantling the defenses around the Moon, a good place to start might be issues of identity, including early role models and experiences.

His parents did work alot, right now they have an obscene amount of money saved but despite their ages they still work and force Chris to work very hard too, even though he's gotten full ride scholarships. They realize he's poor but they make him pay back all the money needed for books every semester (which I think is a good life lesson but they dont recognize or accredit him for being the responsible and insanely resourceful kid he is. All the women in his family seem to dominate the males and smother. I get to see these two different versions of his mother as smothering, cold and critical (he had an indecent with a skateboard and was pissing blood but his mom tried to tell his dad that he was fine and didnt need a doctor at 14) he gets nagged for everything he does (not eating quickly enough,not holding open doors, not talking, for being sad or depressed.) It's confusing. His own mother has a complex with her own about needing to be perfect, good, friendly, and seeks constant approval. She's claimed that she never lies etc. I could see her really beating on his scorpio needs with her more superficial ones.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Brea, if what you say is correct, his being secretive around his family and having difficulty commiting to an adult sexual relationship would be perfectly understandable.
 

Brea

Well-known member
Brea, if what you say is correct, his being secretive around his family and having difficulty commiting to an adult sexual relationship would be perfectly understandable.

Sorry if I'm totally missing it here but how does the secrecy between he and his parents affect his and our ability to have a satisfying sexual relationship? Is it just the fear of being subjected to rejection emotionally? I dont feel like a catalyst, I'm ver encouraging of his emotions and needs.

Btw thank you so much for the energy you've put into digesting this and sharing it back with me. I am making more connections than I did before looking and reasoning with his chart. Means alot. I just want a sort of conclusion of how his past effects him sexually so that I can better understand what he needs from me or from himself. Its all very muddled with chiron in cancer. He isnt aware of his own wounds.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
You are welcome!

I wouldn't say that these two affect one another. It is more that with dominating, controling female relatives, he may feel that it's not safe to disclose every much. Or even that he can play a little game with them by hiding things from them.

Back in the Dark Ages of psychology, it was thought that homosexual men had controlling mothers, such that they developed an aversion towards women. We know better today, but free and easy sexuality with women may not come easily if he associates close relationships with women as being about their controling him.

Of course, we only hear his side of the story, not his mother's or other female relations'.
 
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