Neurosis Indicators in a Natal Chart

uranianplutonian

Account Closed
What planets and aspects have you noticed are typically involved in the natal chart of someone with neurotic tendencies?

My assumption is that neurosis shows up in the natal chart as afflictions to the Moon and Mercury.


Neurosis:

"Neurotic means you’re afflicted by neurosis, a word that has been in use since the 1700s to describe mental, emotional, or physical reactions that are drastic and irrational. At its root, a neurotic behavior is an automatic, unconscious effort to manage deep anxiety." (https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/neurotic-behavior-overview)

From my experience of being around people with neurotic tendencies, if there's something to worry about, they will worry about it.

"Neurotic Conduct

The line that divides neurotic from normal is the intensity. Neurotic thoughts and behaviors by definition are so extreme that they interfere with your personal, professional, and romantic lives. What’s more, they tend to be your default response to even minor problems.

Common behavior: You worry about finishing a big project at work on time.
Neurotic behavior: You fixate on the deadline and moan, “I’ll never get this done!” even though it’s not due for months and you have little other work to do.

Common behavior: You like to get to the airport 2 hours before every flight.
Neurotic behavior: You insist on arriving 4 hours early, and then you ask the gate agent every 10 minutes if the departure is on time.

Common behavior: Your former spouse was unfaithful, and you’re wary about new relationships.
Neurotic behavior: You constantly ask your new partner if they’re cheating on you, and then blame yourself for driving them away."
(https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/neurotic-behavior-overview)


I only know one person who exhibits a more severe form of neurosis. After looking at their natal chart, I speculate that neurosis has more to do with one's Moon than it does with natal Mercury. Their Mercury is in Aquarius with afflictions from Saturn (square), and Lilith (quincunx). Their Moon is in Sagittarius, conjunct Mars (applying at 6º), Jupiter (separating at 6º), and Neptune (separating at 5º).

Natal Moon sign and afflictions of other people I've known who exhibited neurotic tendencies:

  • Moon in Capricorn conjunct Uranus (separating at 5º) and Neptune (applying at 4º), square NN and SN (applying at 0º), opposite Chiron (separating at 3º).
  • Moon in Sagittarius conjunct Mars (separating at 5º), Jupiter (applying at 5º), square Saturn (applying at 9º), and opposing POF (applying at 2º).
  • Moon in Virgo conjunct Chiron (separating at 4º)
  • Moon in Capricorn opposing Venus (separating at 6º), square Saturn (applying at 2º), and square Chiron (applying at 5º). This person I know ~of. They're one of my friend's ex-partners – I heard a lot about their relationship, etc.
 
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ScorpioMaria

Well-known member
Neuroticism is very broad, involving anxiety, nervousness, restlessness, self-consciousness, and fear among other things.
There are many many many aspects, signs, and planets that could cause it, especially involving Virgo or Gemini
Any affliction involving the Ascendant, Sun, Moon, Mercury, Mars (excessive anger), Saturn (self-consciousness), Uranus, Pluto (anger/fear)

Neuroticism is possible in most charts

Also, Virgo tends to be somewhat neurotic even without affliction
 
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uranianplutonian

Account Closed
Neuroticism is very broad, involving anxiety, nervousness, restlessness, self-consciousness, and fear among other things.
There are many many many aspects, signs, and planets that could cause it, especially involving Virgo or Gemini
Any affliction involving the Ascendant, Sun, Moon, Mercury, Mars (excessive anger), Saturn (self-consciousness), Uranus, Pluto (anger/fear)

Neuroticism is possible in most charts

Also, Virgo tends to be somewhat neurotic even without affliction
Interesting. I know plenty of Geminis, and none have neurotic tendencies. I could see it with a Virgo Sun. That said, I’m a Virgo Sun, and don’t have neurotic tendencies. I think some neurosis could help me with my ADHD symptoms. :wink: Then again, NO thank you because neurosis seems exhausting. That amount of stress is poison for the body.

The Sun signs that I’ve noticed with neurotic tendencies are Aquarius, Pisces, and Scorpio.
 

uranianplutonian

Account Closed
I really don’t like to get too carried away with this. But I have made a study of the brain in relation to processing issues. I see Neurosis as a disorder of the Limbic system, not the cerebral cortex. The Limbic System is managed by the Moon. Issues of the cerebral cortex do not involve security.

Your statement above matches: "From my experience of being around people with neurotic tendencies, if there's something to worry about, they will worry about it.” This is SECURITY, and the Moon is all about security. And of course other parts of the Moon: whether in a critical degree, OOB, conjunct fixed stars, Energy level, Friction level, etc.

And you already recognized the importance of the Moon in neurosis.

So I tend to diagnose the background of potential Neurosis with the sign and house placement of the moon, and then the Moon’s aspect relationship with several significant asteroids of mental health, most notably Psyche and Nemesis. Then we look at a whole bunch more including Orpheus, Sisyphus, Persephone and about 15 more.

It's not hard to see the connections then.
From what I've observed (through conversations with people about their past), neurosis stems from someone growing up in a very volatile home environment (Moon), where neither parent could offer emotional stability for their child (malefics involved with Moon).

I went to the natal chart of the person I know with the most neurotic tendencies, looked up asteroid Nemesis, and it's partile conjunct (separating) their Sagittarius Moon. Nothing with Psyche, Orpheus and Persephone, however their Moon is applying to a square with Sisyphus at 4º.

I plugged these asteroids into the other natal charts I have of people with neurotic tendencies, however there were basically no contacts between the Moon and them – likely because I only have one natal chart of someone who is on the extreme end, whereas the rest have "traits of." I'll have to take a look to see if these asteroids are involved with other inner planets like Mercury, etc.

Actually, I took a quick peek and I'm seeing connections between Venus and these asteroids for those who have neurotic tendencies, but no Moon connection with these asteroids.
 

Lin

Well-known member
Hi Samantha,
When I saw the title of this thread the first name that came to mind WAS Woody Allen.

He is the most famous neurotic.

BUT what is so incredibly genius about him is that instead of hiding his neurotic personality, he EXPLOITED IT... he made a career out of it...he made people laugh at it....laugh at himself and therefore gave permission for other people with neurotic tendencies (and aren't there so many of us?)....to laugh at ourselves.

I've studied Woody's chart in the past and always was amazed that someone with SO MANY squares and inconjuncts had been able to be so brilliantly creative - and has done some really unrecognized work...the "small pictures" he has done...even some that are hardly understood by the critics or audiences.
If you have never seen the movie "Another Woman" .....you have a treat in store. It is not a comedy. And the first time I saw it (while I had a very lengthy virus in the 90s...when I was in bed most of the day...and my only company was all the movies I'd never seen...) I had to look at the credits again...to make sure HE wrote it...because I felt only a woman could have this kind of insight.
So he has written comedy....and tragedy...and comic tragedy....(Crimes and Misdemeanors) ....I mean...who can do that?
Certainly not someone considered "normal."....:unsure:
LIN
 

IleneK

Premium Member
From what I've observed (through conversations with people about their past), neurosis stems from someone growing up in a very volatile home environment (Moon), where neither parent could offer emotional stability for their child (malefics involved with Moon).
I would only add that neurosis can also come from a non-volatile home environment, when a lid is put on everything untoward. And there is the component that has nothing to do with what may have actually happened in the home, but rather how the native perceived it, their unique sensitivities, like the placement of their Moon.
 

Lin

Well-known member
I would only add that neurosis can also come from a non-volatile home environment, when a lid is put on everything untoward. And there is the component that has nothing to do with what may have actually happened in the home, but rather how the native perceived it, their unique sensitivities, like the placement of their Moon.
Well, that is exactly correct. Because I learned very early in my astrology career that different people from the same family, each person in the family will "experience" the events and personalities around them differently....thru the dynamics of their own birth MAP.

Let's say the family is one that moves from place to place every few years. Maybe it's career responsibilities of the parents, maybe it's upward mobility, maybe the other way....downsizing....and the children have to go to new schools, make new friends, even get used to new weather and environment. And these are only the most optimistic changes which could occur...Sometimes a parent dies...or one of the children has a chronic health issue...so that the focus is always on that child.

what about the other children? If one or more children are easy going, love change or is not attached to any particular place or friendships, and makes new friends easily, then that child/children will "go with the flow" and see the newness as an adventure...maybe.

BUT if any of the children are attached, to home, friends, environment, routine....and must be uprooted to new surroundings, that child can be TRAUMATIZED.....each time...and come to believe that "nothing is to be trusted." "Parents can't be trusted to understand the feelings of the child"...."don't get attached to anything....it will end in pain."

Also, sometimes ....in families with several children, each child gets a LABEL....the smart one, the quiet one, the troublemaker, the creative one, the dramatic one....the secretive one.....
AND this becomes part of their programming...sometimes "believing" in the label. And not knowing how to "de-program" themselves...don't even KNOW that they are programmed....

Does this fall in to the category of Neurotic behavior? I don't know. But....anyone who is programmed by the past finds it hard to live in the future...and be a good partner...a person who can be understanding....to cherish the other person...to be a better parent than they had...

This is a big subject.
But...we are our birth map....we are given a set of energies which must get us thru life... functionally...hopefully...but for most people this can be a challenge.
LIN
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.


Regarding the 12th House
12th is the house of sorrow, misery, self-undoing, secret enemies, tribulations, losses, isolation, diseases
many a neurotic person has, by the very nature of their inner conflicts, a certain charisma & drive about them.
however

not everyone with a 12th house emphasis is neurotic :)


Psychologists, Psychiatrists are frequently themselves often neurotic


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Humanitarian

Well-known member
I was neurotic, but I've overcomed it due to Source's help. Here's the aspects:
Moon square Nodes
Moon quincunx Sedna
Moon opp. Eris
Moon trine Chiron
Moon trine Neptune
Saturn in 4th house (Placidus)
 

StarchaserNancy

Well-known member
12th house is one doozey. I think w/ a packed 12th and/or w/ planets moving through there making strong aspects to natal planets can indicate more anxiety, fear, etc. I think difficult Neptune transits or placements in the natal chart predisposes someone to more sensitivity, porous boundaries and maybe more problems w/ anxiety, fear. If excessive, difficulty functioning in everyday life.
 

Lin

Well-known member
Here is a definition of Neurosis:

neu·ro·sis​

/no͝oˈrōsəs/​

noun
  • 1.a relatively mild mental illness that is not caused by organic disease, involving symptoms of stress (depression, anxiety, obsessive behaviour, hypochondria) but not a radical loss of touch with reality."Freud's two-stage account of neurosis"
  • ▪(in nontechnical use) excessive and irrational anxiety or obsession:"apprehension over mounting debt has created a collective neurosis in the business world"
But I think the most important dynamic of this behavior is something not yet discussed:

I once had a very simple way of describing this...but I have forgotten...so I have to try to do so again:

Let's say that a stressful situation comes up....not necessarily one that was the original trauma...but something that feels like it might be...or could be...or one is afraid it WILL be.....there are MANY ways to handle every new traumatic or difficult situation....and most of us REACT ACCORDING THE THE SPECIFIC PROBLEM OR ISSUE OR TRAUMA OR DIFFICULTLY....

But: with a neurosis...one responds to EVERY new stressful challenge and disappointment or tfauma AS THOUGH IT WERE THE ORIGINAL ONE... AND..."acts out" in a pattern which began at the time of the original response to the original trauma.

In other words, it constantly COPIES one's response to the NEW and different issue as though it were the FIRST trauma.

It's like a "separate" part of the mind...which, once it is POKED-- sensed......something "automatic" happens in the behavior...and the person is not always CONSCIOUS that they are "acting this out." But they don't seem to be able to separate their present responses and behaviors from the ORIGINAL TRAUMA. It is as though it is an unconscious part of the psyche which sits in wait to be activated.

Have I explained this clearly?
Linda
 
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