Neptune in the First House or Pisces Rising?

DigitialDiva

Well-known member
Apologies if you know the following already.

To me the ascendant shows one's outward appearance to the world-- both physical and personality.

In medical astrology, the first house says something about the person's overall vitality, and possible health issues associated with one's head. (Pisces rules the feet.)

In modern astrology (not in traditional western) the planetary ruler of the first house is usually taken as the nativity's ruling planet.

One issue to consider in typing people according to rising sign is genetics. A lot of appearance-based delineations for the ascendant came from skewed samples-- of northern Europeans.

I wonder if "fish eyes" are possible for Asians with hereditary epicanthal folds and dark eyes. I think "fish eyes" change with facial expression. I think Donald Trump often looks like he has" fish eyes," but he has Leo rising.

Neptune, as you know, can also have negative associations-- escapism: an inability to cope with reality, because Neptune doesn't deal with reality-as-given. People with Neptune in the first house are sometimes seen as the chameleons or shape-shifters of the zodiac. Neptune rising can erase a strong sense-of-self, and leave its natives with a weakened sense of how they come across to others. Neptune rising is supposedly a good placement for an actor, because their outward projections will often depend upon what others want to see in them.

I have Virgo rising, incidentally, but Neptune in the first house in Libra in most quadrant house systems.

The other thing to consider is aspects to the ascendant or any first house planets, as these can really change the expression of the rising sign. I have Uranus square my Virgo ascendant, and I look like anything but the stereotypical tidy secretary. My hair has never behaved, and looks unusual compared to most other women.
Hi Waybread,

Yes I remember that, but was not able find consistency with appearance and ascendants and have discarded it. Nor was I able to validate the houses…. And Scientific Astrology could not statistically validate the house and planet placements in them. Sorry, I like hard facts backed by statistics.

As for Neptune symbolism: not escapism, but because it is associated with youthfulness, in some natives with certain aspects may manifest as innocence or naivety. In clash with Saturnian planets could defiantly manifest as you noted above.

But… I need to see 6 different charts,
  • geocentric longitude for 30 degree aspects,
  • geocentric longitude for Septile bicseptile and triceptile aspects,
  • geocentric declinations,
  • heliocentric longitude for 30 degree aspects,
  • heliocentric longitude for Septile bicseptile and triceptile aspects,
  • heliocentric latitudes
I look at new asteroids and planets as the symbolisms that are being discovered about them. Then I look at the most exact planetary geometry in each chart. Also noting multidimensional aspects….

Like Uranus Neptune conj and parallel in helio and geo for those born in the early nineties… so many actors, singers, computer geniuses and influencers… it fits those natives with that strong aspect across 4 charts. Add a great Jupiter for luck in 30 degree or septile to the Neptune/Uranus. Wow!

Timing is everything, humans are more complex than a single Geocentric longitude chart.

There is so much more to be learned…. Visit Magi Kevin, Magi Bette, Magi Helena’s sites… they all post the basics on their websites. I’m only a student of theirs.
 

waybread

Staff member
Thanks for the feedback, DD.

Do you use statistics? If so, what methods? My own meagre background in statistics is long ago and far away, but I'd be curious to learn what you're using.

As I've said multiple times (if not here) a lot of someone's personal appearance is explained by genetics. A horoscope doesn't say if the native has blue or brown eyes, for example. One's personal appearance is also affected by cultural norms for one's period and place that cannot be read transparently off a horoscope. I often note that we don't even know if a nativity is for a male or female without external, collateral information. So the ascendant, if it has astrological meaning, has to primarily show the personality that manifests through that physical body. This personality includes mannerisms and personal quirks.

Of course, the ascendant also determines the descendant, which says a lot about one's approach to relationships.

"Science", of course, has multiple definitions, from any old body of knowledge, to the precise and rigorous methods of physics and biochemistry.

To me, science has to do with the scientific method and the experimental methodologies that we would find in the established academic physical and natural sciences. Real science has methods for testing its data and methods, usually via statistics. Science also includes theoretical, modeling, predictive, and review research; but the ability to test the soundness of one's propositions is at its heart.

I just don't see anything approaching this kind of rigor in astrology, although I have not studied Magi astrology.

This is not to say that astrology research cannot be empirical. Academia has several disciplines that are empirical without being scientific, notably history and legal studies.

Astrology is a rare blend of the humanities and science (via astronomy,) but it is not the only integrative empirical discipline. (Cf. environmental studies, geography, physical anthropology, and architecture.)

I'm impressed if you can use electional astrology for sound business decisions. And an investment either pays off or it doesn't, so there is some way to verify the prediction.

On the other hand, I got into astrology during a Dark Night Of The Soul, when I didn't know why I was on the planet, and what I should be doing with my life. Not me as a subset of humanity, but me as an individual. I dimly realized that astrology treated people as individuals, and began to study it. I never did find out why I was on the planet, and after a while I gave it up as a bad job and stopped worrying about it. (Neptune in the first house, y'know?)

However, I had learned enough astrology in the process to try to be helpful to people who were undergoing identity crises, career decisions, relationship problems, family issues, poverty, and so on. And this is where basic empathy towards other people comes in.

More power to you if you can make businesss astrology work. However, so many of the "read my chart" posts are about more heartfelt, personal problems.

Thanks for the Magi website recommendations.
 

waybread

Staff member
I also use asteroids on occasion. But because there are so many of them, there is a problem with using too much space junk to make a chart mean whatever one wants. I generally stick to asteroid conjunctions with actual planets or angles, and then the asteroid has to be relevant.

I happen to have a namesake asteroid, so I will sometimes input it into other people's charts to get a sense of how I show up for them. If I can find namesake asteroids, they are really interesting in synastry.

Speaking of Neptune, I don't know his birth time, but I did a rough chart for my music teacher. I live in a small community where a lot of people have social connections with many others.. My music teacher is separated, and I thought he acted like he was sweet on my (married) neighbour. He has a yod pointing to Neptune. She has a common first name with a couple of namesake asteroids that conjunct his Neptune.

I hadn't thought of trying asteroid Excalibur before, but found it conjuncts my natal NN in Aries in the 8th house, with a 1 degree orb.

To boldly go where no(one) has gone before?
 

DigitialDiva

Well-known member
Hi Waybread,

I don’t personally use the statistical analysis. But based on what they tell me, I have found truth in my own limited experience over what popular western astrology taught me. Thus, I’m sold and a follower now. I believe them. Especially in personal relationships…. So so so true.

I encourage all to download and read their free books. Their teachings are disorganized (roughly Socratic) and I will attempt to to present what I have learned in a more systematic method that makes more sense then their disparate website. My reasoning for wanting more followers is that some will do the reasrarch and increase the knowledge base and discover new planetary symbolisms that will benefit all of astrology in the long run.

 

waternymph7

Member
waternymph7, thanks for your insider's report.

In Liz Greene's book Neptune, she talks about Neptune as a longing to merge with the Divine. When this longing is thwarted in some way, Neptunians may turn to drugs, alcohol, or other forms of escapism. Any thoughts about this?

I have just Mars in Pisces, but re: your post, I note that Mars rules athletics. I don't like competitive sports with winners and losers. I think everyone should win, or that it's not about competition. Hiking up a mountain with friends, for example, where you want everyone to make it to the top.

My husband and I play simple word games, like Wordle, but we do them collaboratively rather than competitively.
i love your outlook! pisces is definitely about helping the masses and creating a world of fairness and equality but in a more compassionate way than libras do. They have the ability to look at the bigger picture, which in your case is believing that everyone should feel like a winner! ❤️
 

waternymph7

Member
For those of you with pisces ascendent, is it true that physically you tend to have a facial expression related to a fish, for example eyes that are "fish eyes", slightly popping out?
No criticism intended here, I don't know a better way to express this. Hopefully your pisces traits will have pity on me!!
im not sure here are mine, what do you think?
i am a first decan pisces ascendant

27CCFA59-BE20-4F2B-9409-FD8C8BA52AAA.jpeg
 

Humanitarian

Well-known member
Hopefully not too off topic, but I find the most elevated planet to have a similar effect to a rising sign or planet on the ascendant. There is this guy who has a lot of Scorpio and Pluto influence in his chart, but Neptune is his most elevated planet in the 9th house, and he has rather mesmerising Neptunian eyes.
I have an elevated Uranus, and I'm too Aquarian energetically to fit in with the capitalist world...
 

Humanitarian

Well-known member
Hi Waybread,

Yes I remember that, but was not able find consistency with appearance and ascendants and have discarded it. Nor was I able to validate the houses…. And Scientific Astrology could not statistically validate the house and planet placements in them. Sorry, I like hard facts backed by statistics.

As for Neptune symbolism: not escapism, but because it is associated with youthfulness, in some natives with certain aspects may manifest as innocence or naivety. In clash with Saturnian planets could defiantly manifest as you noted above.

But… I need to see 6 different charts,
  • geocentric longitude for 30 degree aspects,
  • geocentric longitude for Septile bicseptile and triceptile aspects,
  • geocentric declinations,
  • heliocentric longitude for 30 degree aspects,
  • heliocentric longitude for Septile bicseptile and triceptile aspects,
  • heliocentric latitudes
I look at new asteroids and planets as the symbolisms that are being discovered about them. Then I look at the most exact planetary geometry in each chart. Also noting multidimensional aspects….

Like Uranus Neptune conj and parallel in helio and geo for those born in the early nineties… so many actors, singers, computer geniuses and influencers… it fits those natives with that strong aspect across 4 charts. Add a great Jupiter for luck in 30 degree or septile to the Neptune/Uranus. Wow!

Timing is everything, humans are more complex than a single Geocentric longitude chart.

There is so much more to be learned…. Visit Magi Kevin, Magi Bette, Magi Helena’s sites… they all post the basics on their websites. I’m only a student of theirs.
Magi astrology is an interesting topic... I already used these charts and found out that I have a lot of septiles in my geocentric natal chart , and there are 8! I even have an exact heliocentric triseptile from Jupiter to Saturn. It was so amazing...
 
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