Negative energy emanating from a toxic parent

katydid

Staff member
Marinka, we are not about blaming the victim on this forum, so far as I know. I don't think a child could lie about having a gash on her arm from a knife wound. We all have blind spots and distortions in our lives, but this in no way justifies laying some kind of horrible past-lives karmic trip on someone who didn't ask for it.

There is no way the doom-and-gloom past lives fantasies can be verified, so I wonder why they are even worth mentioning, speaking of distortions.

But LostinPhilly-- what keeps you home now? Have you got a friend or relative you can move in with? None of my business, but......

With Cancer rising, it might be hard to give up on one's family life and disconnect from that primal need. Everlasting hopes and wishes that the familial wound, promised by the Chiron in Cancer in the first, opposing Saturn, will be adequately healed, may keep one close to home at times.

Mercury rules her 4th and is in a quincunx with her 12th house Moon. Maybe she is kind of longing for some kind of transformation, or resurrection of the Mother /child bond? She has Ceres in her 4th, and in an applying square to the Moon, and may be she seeking an awakening of that mothering, nurturing bond that she never really fully experienced?
 

Osamenor

Administrator
Staff member
Yesterday, I had a conversation with my dad who want to basically remove all social interactions from my younger sisters' lives. I tried to make him understand that this technique didn't work on me because I ended up with major personality voids and lack certain social skills very much needed to pursue any career or relationship. As was saying that their upbringing caused me to have a certain lack of skills, my mother jumped into the conversation and said: "Yes, her personality is incomplete". I'm not sure if she actually admitted to the damage done or if she wanted to add fuel to the fire to make me feel even more insecure. Either way, I'm really trying to help my father's mindset to broaden up a bit, so that my sisters have a more balanced upbringing with a fair amount of social interactions, unlike me. Their upbringing is way different but my father remains rather inflexible on certain matters (such as having friends).
So your sisters are getting abused, too. Maybe not as severely, but if they're not allowed to have friends, that right there is abuse. And if they're not allowed friends... parents who stop their kids from having a social life are typically out to hide something. They don't want their kids having friends because then other people, ie the friends' parents, will notice those kids and notice that something is wrong and possibly expose what their parents are doing to them.
Marinka, we are not about blaming the victim on this forum, so far as I know. I don't think a child could lie about having a gash on her arm from a knife wound. We all have blind spots and distortions in our lives, but this in no way justifies laying some kind of horrible past-lives karmic trip on someone who didn't ask for it.
Exactly.
There is no way the doom-and-gloom past lives fantasies can be verified, so I wonder why they are even worth mentioning, speaking of distortions.
As someone who readily delves into past life astrology when appropriate, I see some value in reading the karmic story. But it's not always, not even usually, a doom and gloom story, and even when it is, the karmic story is never a definitely literally true story. It just shows the unconscious patterns and expectations you brought into this life, which could be explained by having the kind of past life that could be gotten out of the chart... or could be explained by similar experiences being had by your ancestors, and the resulting unconscious expectations being inherited.

In the case of family abuse, we don't need astrology to tell us there are some deep wounds that have been passed down for many generations. Astrology would tell us that, but so would psychology, sociology, any field that looks at those things. Either way, the value in looking at the past life part of the chart isn't the past life story itself so much as it is the future life that the chart shows potential for.

In this case, though, the chart owner hasn't requested any past life analysis. Without that request, I wouldn't even look at the past lives part. There's so much material in the current life to work with that past lives may be completely irrelevant here.
But LostinPhilly-- what keeps you home now? Have you got a friend or relative you can move in with? None of my business, but......

With Cancer rising, it might be hard to give up on one's family life and disconnect from that primal need. Everlasting hopes and wishes that the familial wound, promised by the Chiron in Cancer in the first, opposing Saturn, will be adequately healed, may keep one close to home at times.

Mercury rules her 4th and is in a quincunx with her 12th house Moon. Maybe she is kind of longing for some kind of transformation, or resurrection of the Mother /child bond? She has Ceres in her 4th, and in an applying square to the Moon, and may be she seeking an awakening of that mothering, nurturing bond that she never really fully experienced?

Didn't you both see this part?
I'll be moving out in February, I hope to really shift my personality and become the person I am meant to be, not the person I was once forced to become as a result of the emotional distress and physical pain.
 

katydid

Staff member
Didn't you both see this part?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
I'll be moving out in February, I hope to really shift my personality and become the person I am meant to be, not the person I was once forced to become as a result of the emotional distress and physical pain.
===============================================

I know that is her explanation. But it doesn't change the fact that she is living under the same roof with the woman who has been physically and emotionally abusive towards her all of her life. So I think there might be a deeper reason that she is living there again.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Didn't you both see this part?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
I'll be moving out in February, I hope to really shift my personality and become the person I am meant to be, not the person I was once forced to become as a result of the emotional distress and physical pain.
===============================================

I know that is her explanation. But it doesn't change the fact that she is living under the same roof with the woman who has been physically and emotionally abusive towards her all of her life. So I think there might be a deeper reason that she is living there again.

Well, I found myself in between jobs and I'm not entitled to benefits as I haven't worked long enough in the same country. To save money, I chose to move back in. My savings wouldn't have lasted 6 months considering how expensive the city I was living in was.

I didn't move in because I wanted to be with them or because my parents forced me to. It was purely circumstancial.
 

katydid

Staff member
Well, I found myself in between jobs and I'm not entitled to benefits as I haven't worked long enough in the same country. To save money, I chose to move back in. My savings wouldn't have lasted 6 months considering how expensive the city I was living in was.

I didn't move in because I wanted to be with them or because my parents forced me to. It was purely circumstancial.

Yes. I totally understand that. Just saying that it would be natural that you also were hoping for some kind of renewal or healing between you all while you are stuck there.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
It's true that I was hoping for a renewal, but things have gotten progressively worse because I now notice her toxic behavior far more clearly than when I was living with them as a teenager. Time away from home allowed me to understand the depth of her damage and I can't subject myself to any further incidents.

I made a hasty decision a couple of months back (November) and I accepted a job abroad which was way below my qualifications, simply to flee the entire debacle. I ended up getting fired after a day because they "didn't like me" which caused me to waste quite a lot of money on this short-lived job. Luckily, I found another way out as soon as I returned "home".

I will try my best to avoid moving back in next time I'm in between jobs. I've never had a solid group of friends as those people have moved as well. Plus, most of my extended family cut my parents off for some "unknown" reason. They don't have any relatives anymore, and claim those people are "mean". They should probably look into the reasons why everyone seems to have cut them off.

The only reason that would keep me attached to them "occasionally" is my bond with my younger sisters. I have been trying to schedule some bonding time with them, away from the house, so they open their eyes to the world out there.
 

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
I think about the hundreds of stories I've seen where the child kills the parent or is killed by the parent or kills themselves or the parent kills themselves when they have kids and all I ever think of is Moon-Pluto.

That is very true. For me, it was the father who was indicated in these Moon-Pluto aspects. When I was 8 or 9, he wanted to murder my mother and I. Mom was tipped off by the person he was seeking the weapon from. He was then permanently exiled from society in this life but in mental institutions and/or living with depleted resources, severe accidents, and emergencies. I believe the moon acted as an enabler to allow him to stay.

I lived on the same block I went to school. My father was arrested in front of my school sitting in his truck with a knife in the cab and drinking beer, he was waiting for her to come home from work (from the opposite direction she drove). He was charged with DUI and arrested only to be accepted back into the home.

He attempted suicide in August of 1997 on the same day/night Dianna passed and failed, entering into that state of exile.

Point is, people CAN survive that energy, if that is the case.

LostInPhilly: You have a lot of great help, support, protection, and knowledge here! Everything will be alright. Observing now and wishing you the best.
 
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anca

Account Closed
There is a reason why these bad parents are in your lives. The reason is an invitation to introspection, the wound is inside and is projected outside. Is it not the outside a reflection of the chart?
You can go 50, 60 years and lament about bad parents and traumatic childhood, that's not what Pluto is expecting of you. Is it Pluto not about transformation? Then go ahead and transform all these rage, anger, frustration at least into understanding. And maybe later on even into compassion. You should feel compassion for your parents for being so low, stupid, angry, ignorant. That's the level Pluto is asking you to go to. And never forget that everything is coming from inside and the bad parents are just a mirror of your own internal frustrations and wounds. Every time they act mean and stupid they are actually conveying the message:" hello!!, things are not sitting well inside you, go look inside and have a tune-up"
I myself have Pluto/Moon opposition part of a T-Square with Sun, so I know very well what I am talking about.
The "Fool" card in Tarot is about choice. You have a Choice how to let Pluto work into your life: you remain stuck for 50 years in negative emotions or you try to transform all the negativity into understanding and compassion. I am sure you'll get greatly rewarded if you choose the transformation.
It looks that Dubydude1989 made it! and his experience looks so traumatic, and yet he made it!
Go ahead with Pluto on a transformation road, trust him and you'll be out of the woods sooner or later.
 

Osamenor

Administrator
Staff member
That is very true. For me, it was the father who was indicated in these Moon-Pluto aspects. When I was 8 or 9, he wanted to murder my mother and I. Mom was tipped off by the person he was seeking the weapon from. He was then permanently exiled from society in this life but in mental institutions and/or living with depleted resources, severe accidents, and emergencies. I believe the moon acted as an enabler to allow him to stay.

I lived on the same block I went to school. My father was arrested in front of my school sitting in his truck with a knife in the cab and drinking beer, he was waiting for her to come home from work (from the opposite direction she drove). He was charged with DUI and arrested only to be accepted back into the home.

He attempted suicide in August of 1997 on the same day/night Dianna passed and failed, entering into that state of exile.

Point is, people CAN survive that energy, if that is the case.

LostInPhilly: You have a lot of great help, support, protection, and knowledge here! Everything will be alright. Observing now and wishing you the best.

Wow. What a story!

Since I've read your chart before, Dubyadude, I know you have moon and Pluto conjunct in your natal chart. LostinPhilly doesn't. The moon/Pluto conjunction or aspect people have been talking about here is in synastry between the violent parent and the child.

Since you yourself have natal Pluto conjunct the moon, there's no way your father's Pluto could be conjunct your moon--if it were, he'd be either much too old to still be living or much too young to be your father! There could be a sextile between his Pluto and your moon, maybe, if he's of the Pluto in Virgo generation, and of course his moon could be anywhere, since moon transits the whole zodiac every month.

I do recall, though, that you have a square involving your twelfth house. It sounds like that was one especially intense activation of it. In LostinPhilly's case, too, there are some crucial squares in her natal chart, and between hers and her mother's.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
There is a reason why these bad parents are in your lives. The reason is an invitation to introspection, the wound is inside and is projected outside. Is it not the outside a reflection of the chart?
You can go 50, 60 years and lament about bad parents and traumatic childhood, that's not what Pluto is expecting of you. Is it Pluto not about transformation? Then go ahead and transform all these rage, anger, frustration at least into understanding. And maybe later on even into compassion. You should feel compassion for your parents for being so low, stupid, angry, ignorant. That's the level Pluto is asking you to go to. And never forget that everything is coming from inside and the bad parents are just a mirror of your own internal frustrations and wounds. Every time they act mean and stupid they are actually conveying the message:" hello!!, things are not sitting well inside you, go look inside and have a tune-up"
I myself have Pluto/Moon opposition part of a T-Square with Sun, so I know very well what I am talking about.
The "Fool" card in Tarot is about choice. You have a Choice how to let Pluto work into your life: you remain stuck for 50 years in negative emotions or you try to transform all the negativity into understanding and compassion. I am sure you'll get greatly rewarded if you choose the transformation.
It looks that Dubydude1989 made it! and his experience looks so traumatic, and yet he made it!
Go ahead with Pluto on a transformation road, trust him and you'll be out of the woods sooner or later.

Thank you for your input, but with all due respect, I don't subscribe to this frame of thought.

You are basically blaming me for triggering my parents behavior as a mirror for my inner issues. I wouldn't be experiencing any issues if it weren't for them in the first place. I don't see how their abusive behavior is in any way a reflection of my issues meant to trigger a self-introspection process. This far fetched and not in a good way.

Besides, I'm not lamenting myself. If I were, I wouldn't be on here. As I said, I don't hate my parents and I can even comprehend the articulation between my mother's childhood and her behavior towards me. I'm not coming from a place of hate, but from a place of emotional detachment which is much needed when you try to understand the dynamics to any toxic relationship.

I've moved on from the pain and anger. I'm still at their place for another few weeks and that's why I'm not fully myself and worry free. I'm sure that once I move out, all this will be left behind like I did in the past 5 or 6 years.
 

Kitchy

Banned
There comes a time in every human's life that forces them to say "enough" and to make a change. Some people call it - 'reaching bottom'. No amount of external help, offerings or enlightenment from the outside or others with good intentions will make a difference in times / moments like these.
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
There comes a time in every human's life that forces them to say "enough" and to make a change. Some people call it - 'reaching bottom'. No amount of external help, offerings or enlightenment from the outside or others with good intentions will make a difference in times / moments like these.

Drastic changes don't happen right away, especially in cases like these. It's a gradual process. I have been undergoing a certain transformation for a while, but for this transformation to take full effect, I have to remove myself from the situation. As I will be moving out soon, I will be able to finally assess the next steps in a more objective light. I'm still at their place now, there isn't much I can do except from indulging in self-introspection and limiting any tensions that may arise.
 

anca

Account Closed
Thank you for your input, but with all due respect, I don't subscribe to this frame of thought.

You are basically blaming me for triggering my parents behavior as a mirror for my inner issues. I wouldn't be experiencing any issues if it weren't for them in the first place. I don't see how their abusive behavior is in any way a reflection of my issues meant to trigger a self-introspection process. This far fetched and not in a good way.

LostinPhilly, I am not blaming you, my message was different.
There are issues in our psychological make up which will be presented to ourselves in various life scenarios.
The way you respond to them is what it matters.
If you think that your mother is such and such and your reaction is a negative one then you are at the same level with her. But by going beyond her level whatever she'll do to you it won't affect you and you at least reach a state of detachment. If you want to go further you can reach a state of understanding, which is understanding her make up, why is she doing what is she doing to you. And if you follow even further Pluto's path of transformation you can even reach a state of compassion for her because it is obvious that she has deep seated problems and wounds and she's oblivious about them.
I am not saying I do not understand you and I realize it must be very hard for you to live with her. What I am saying is: try.....because others tried and it's working and I am telling you for sure, sometimes there is even magic, it's true that magic is so rare...but could be magic and your mother might start to change if you practice the opposite or her negativity. And if not, you'll still be on the plus side, you won't let your life plagued with her negativity for 30, 40 years or so.
You can run to the end of the world, but if you did not fix the problem in you her negativity is going to follow you somehow and you admit that it happens even over the phone. And some other members say even from the grave. So the true exercise is when you are with her face to face, close to her and if you succeed then you'll master the situation anytime and anywhere.
 

Dubyadude1986

Well-known member
Drastic changes don't happen right away, especially in cases like these. It's a gradual process. I have been undergoing a certain transformation for a while, but for this transformation to take full effect, I have to remove myself from the situation. As I will be moving out soon, I will be able to finally assess the next steps in a more objective light. I'm still at their place now, there isn't much I can do except from indulging in self-introspection and limiting any tensions that may arise.

Just the fact that you are here is one thing that means you are on the right track. I showed up here too during a difficult time. It helped a lot, just try to be as patient as you can. Good luck to you.
 
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Kitchy

Banned
Dear Found in Philly ;)

You have been very open with your truths - however, there are possibilties of illusion or confusion or disambiguation, but you have certainly opened up a dialogue that others have tuned into - myself included. You have helped to breech the gap of some of us, most hopefully yourself, too - of "I am not alone in these feelings or experiences" people live with and through them and you invited us in to share that with you.

That is always a beautiful thing.

But that doesn't mean you have to settle at that and be stuck in the mud. Stick with your plans that your transit Moon-Pluto aspect has been breadcrumbing you toward for your whole life - to follow the trail of gaining personal, emotional strength for yourself - endurance through the cold winters - your emotions - and realize that if it wasn't your mother or family - it would show up elsewhere in the chart as Moon Pluto can do even in the most idyllic family lives.

Think of how much is ahead of you, before you - not what you are leaving behind. It's the only way for a survivor to get over the hump.

If you have time, check out the Tarot card The Fool - of the major arcana. He is the one who blindly and willingly and hopefully walks off a cliffside with absolute belief that it will be okay. Also the 6 of Swords of minor arcana - the image is depresso but the message is the moving away from strife, hardship into unknown but better places, even when grief and resentment and loss hangs in the balance of the unknown.

Moon Pluto is a real pisser by transit or natal, but so much power within when found. Enormous power. I'll leave you with James Brown... be well with it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1w0syylZI
 

LostinPhilly

Well-known member
Thanks all for your help.

I just wanted to clarify certain points before leaving this thread:

- I have never experienced any past life recollection. Ever. I don't believe in past lives very much. Hence, every single episode is one I remember from years ago. This is what happened in my present life, I still have the scars to this day (the knife episode). I even discussed those episodes once with my mother and depending on her mood, she can admit to it or get defensive. She admitted to a lot of her wrongdoings once, but then got defensive when I brought them up again. My dad even told her once to "stop threatening the kids with knives", so none of this is made up.

I don't see where this supposed "disambiguation" or "confusion" is coming from. You very well believed Dubyadude's story which is far more traumatizing than mine. I don't see why mine seems so fictional. This is something I can't comprehend. Yes, I do remember the tinest details, but that's because people tend to remember traumatic events to the tinest details. You may very well block the emotions attached to it while it's happening and even after, but they all come back to the surface at some point. In my case, I've simply absorbed these events into my memory as those were events that shaped me. I have a very very good memory, so there's no way I could ever forget such events. Who would?

The hair pulling and the constant physical abuse, isn't made up either. I still have certain episodes written down on my diary. I'm not a liar or delusional. I'm very much aware of what I am writing and the dates even.

- I feel sorry for my mother that she had to endure such a terrible and painful childhood. I really do. Now, the problem is every single time I become nicer to her and act like nothing happens, she sees this as weakness and starts attacking me all over again, multiple times a day. This is a repetitive vicious cycle which I haven't found the solution to.

I don't fight with her no more. I simply ignore her attempts at attacking me now. I remain silent and remove myself from her sight. I feel slightly embarrassed because it's her house and I should not be acting this way, but it's better than to fight with her constantly, which would be rather immature at my age. One of us has to take the high road.

I simply wish she saw the true meaning of loving her children equally and providing them with the support system she never had. She doesn't seem to open her eyes to the idea that all of her children need to feel loved equally. She basically stripped me off the love she wanted but never received from her parents, and that's what hurt me the most. When I was younger, I specifically remember crying every night because she once told me she didn't love me but pretended to in public to be "politically correct". This hurt me to the core especially as she told me that right after my then best friend left the house with her mother.

Anyway. Thank you all for your very constructive help! I really do appreciate your efforts to enlighten me. Your words didn't fall on deaf ears, but I will have to process them once again when I'm out of their house. I'll probably come back to re-read everything you wrote once I'm in a better state of mind and inner peace.
 
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Kitchy

Banned
Thanks all for your help.

I just wanted to clarify certain points before leaving this thread:

- I have never experienced any past life recollection. Ever. I don't believe in past lives very much. Hence, every single episode is one I remember from years ago. This is what happened in my present life, I still have the scars to this day (the knife episode). I even discussed those episodes once with my mother and depending on her mood, she can admit to it or get defensive. She admitted to a lot of her wrongdoings once, but then got defensive when I brought them up again. My dad even told her once to "stop threatening the kids with knives", so none of this is made up.

I don't see where this supposed "disambiguation" or "confusion" is coming from. You very well believed Dubyadude's story which is far more traumatizing than mine. I don't see why mine seems so fictional. This is something I can't comprehend. Yes, I do remember the tinest details, but that's because people tend to remember traumatic events to the tinest details. You may very well block the emotions attached to it while it's happening and even after, but they all come back to the surface at some point. In my case, I've simply absorbed these events into my memory as those were events that shaped me. I have a very very good memory, so there's no way I could ever forget such events. Who would?

The hair pulling and the constant physical abuse, isn't made up either. I still have certain episodes written down on my diary. I'm not a liar or delusional. I'm very much aware of what I am writing and the dates even.

- I feel sorry for my mother that she had to endure such a terrible and painful childhood. I really do. Now, the problem is every single time I become nicer to her and act like nothing happens, she sees this as weakness and starts attacking me all over again, multiple times a day. This is a repetitive vicious cycle which I haven't found the solution to.

I don't fight with her no more. I simply ignore her attempts at attacking me now. I remain silent and remove myself from her sight. I feel slightly embarrassed because it's her house and I should not be acting this way, but it's better than to fight with her constantly, which would be rather immature at my age. One of us has to take the high road.

I simply wish she saw the true meaning of loving her children equally and providing them with the support system she never had. She doesn't seem to open her eyes to the idea that all of her children need to feel loved equally. She basically stripped me off the love she wanted but never received from her parents, and that's what hurt me the most. When I was younger, I specifically remember crying every night because she once told me she didn't love me but pretended to in public to be "politically correct". This hurt me to the core especially as she told me that right after my then best friend left the house with her mother.

Anyway. Thank you all for your very constructive help! I really do appreciate your efforts to enlighten me. Your words didn't fall on deaf ears, but I will have to process them once again when I'm out of their house. I'll probably come back to re-read everything you wrote once I'm in a better state of mind and inner peace.

There must be some greek or latin myth about the one who loved her children equally. Equal is as equal sees. You are young and be grateful you know this much of yourself and haven't spent more time in the triangulation of mother and her children - Moon Pluto and Narcissism go hand in hand. Inter-generationally.

As long as mom holds the cards -she plays them as a good poker player would.

If you've ever had multiple pets - you've probably found yourself calling them each other's names in their bad or good behavior.

Know your name and know when your mom speaks it truthfully.

In the meantime, get on with being you. I say this as much for me as you.

Bigger fish to fry, as they say in U.S. Why wait until you're 30 or 40 or 50 years older to accept it. I think you're birthtime is incorrect. I believe you have a moon-pluto aspect attached to neptune and saturn.

Punishment never goes to smoothly when you want to punish the offending parent(s). Didn't they teach you anything? ;) (not mean mean)

Anca called me a guerilla. I discount everything she tells you - just to say.
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
I just want to update this thread to give you a recent and concrete example of my mother's negative energy impacting my life.

Last Monday, I was packing my suitcase because I will be moving out in two weeks. I had not told a single soul about my move. However, my father barged into my room to fix some electricity issue and he saw me packing my things. He didn't ask about what was going on, but when my mother got home in the evening, he told her I was moving out!

I was infuriated ... Guess what? The next day, the landlord told me his tenant was not moving out after all and refunded me. Ever since that day, tenants have been unresponsive to my emails! I had a 80% reply rate before my father spilled the beans and after he did, the response rate dropped to 10%. Nobody replies to my emails anymore and I'm very much stuck now.

If this isn't bad energy, I wonder what it is!
 

waybread

Staff member
I'm sorry to hear this, as it seems to be a repeat pattern. Did you ask the landlord about whether your mother might have phoned him, perhaps posing as someone else? You might have to keep your door locked and pack up and leave in the middle of the night, or something equivalent, leaving no contact information, so that you don't constantly expose yourself to this kind of interference.
 
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LostinPhilly

Well-known member
I'm sorry to hear this, as it seems to be a repeat pattern. Did you ask the landlord about whether your mother might have phoned him, perhaps posing as someone else? You might have to keep your door locked and pack up and leave in the middle of the night, or something equivalent, leaving no contact information, so that you don't constantly expose yourself to this kind of interference.

No, she couldn't have because I'm moving abroad and she doesn't speak the language. No one knew about my accomodation hunt at all. That said, her energy definitely interfered, I'm sure.

I'm planning on leaving very early in the morning when everyone is asleep. I just hope I will manage to find a new place really soon :(
 
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